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Old February 15th, 2008, 05:19 PM
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Default What do you think about the fuel surcharge?

We just booked our cruise on Royal Caribbean's Grandeur of the Seas, knowing that there was a $5.00 per person, per day fuel charge. We can handle the extra $10 a day but I do feel sorry for people, on a tight budget, that might have to take shorter cruises or eliminate a cruise altogether. I believe that fuel contracts are based on futures, several months prior to each cruise. . To me, cruise lines make extra money on drinks, pictures, excursions, and insurance, why do they have to charge extra for fuel? This does not look good for the cruiselines!
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Old February 15th, 2008, 05:43 PM
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"...why do they have to charge extra for fuel? This does not look good for the cruise lines! "

I disagree entirely. First, they have to charge extra for fuel now, because the cost of fuel has gone up -- a lot. And because China and India are prospering and adding millions of cars and other motor vehicles a year to the road, it will continue to go up. As a consequence the price of cruises will continue to rise. In my opinion the future holds big fuel price increases and you "ain't seen nothin yet."

IMHO, it would 'not look good for the cruise industry' if they did not add the fuel surcharges. It is a very competitive industry and the profit margins are not high. Going broke is not the name of the game -- making money is. If anyone can't handle the extra $10/day, they probably should not be cruising in the first place. Sure it's fun to complain, but reality is reality, and that's the way it is.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 06:44 PM
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I don't like it, but I have to agree with Rich on this one. You aint seen nothing yet!

Makes me think of that funny picture of Ray peddaling that bicycle somewhere to make some fancy drink or something. Just picture how many bikes it would take to make those ships move. Sorry just my imagination getting carried away with me.

Phyll
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Old February 15th, 2008, 07:54 PM
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I remember when I was on Carnival Pride they said the ship used 631 gallons to travel 1 mile!! ! And I thought I got poor mileage!!

Laura
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Old February 15th, 2008, 08:08 PM
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Rich is exactly right.

I feel sorry for people who get priced out of being able to cruise too, but lots of people are priced out of a lot of things.

We're guaranteed the pursuit of happiness. Nobody ever guaranteed that we'd always catch it.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 08:20 PM
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I agree with Richstacey also. It is all part of doing business. Fortunately, we have a CHOICE in this. WE can buy and spend the extra money or choose not to buy or spend it that way. Compare it with the price of petroleum products, gasoline in particular. The price goes up and we HAVE to pay the price, we have NO CHOICE. I would dare say that 98% of the working public in the United States have to use some kind of machine that consumes petroleum in some form, whether it is gasoline, diesel, biofuels, or electricity.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 08:36 PM
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What do you think about the fuel surcharge?

I think it's here to stay.

I think it will go up.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 09:29 PM
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Everything rolls down hill. The fuel surcharge was longer in coming than I
thought it would be. The consumer always pays-- the trucks that you see all over the highways have to pay more for fuel--therefore the goods they haul for you to buy cost more--and so it goes. We may not like it but as long as we are determined to guzzle fuel at the rate we do and just as determined to not conserve, not get rid of our dependence on foreign oil, etc. then we may as well pay up with a smile.

$$$
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Old February 15th, 2008, 09:51 PM
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We are not the ones driving the price up. It is the Chinese and the Indians, without a doubt. We can however do something to wean ourselves from Arab oil. We can get over our idiotic and juvenile fear of nuclear power and start building nuclear plants. (We haven't built one since the early '70s while the French get 80% of their power from them) Then we can drive cars recharged in our garage at night with nuclear power that puts not one gram of carbon in the air -- and no other pollutants either. Or we can continue on the same self destructive course we are on now. Our choice.
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
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Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
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Old February 15th, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Richstacey,
I am with you on the use of nuclear power; it is a more efficient and cleaner use of energy. I wish that our elected officials would wake up and not "cave in" to oil lobbyists that "wine and dine" them. In Brazil, most of the cars use corn based fuel and have been doing this for quite awhile now.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 10:25 PM
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I agree with the nuclear energy. Texas has a couple of them already.
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Old February 16th, 2008, 12:50 AM
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A couple of thoughts.........

I hope this doesn't become a nasty political discussion.............!

Any business will charge what the market will bear. So if the cruise lines can add a few extra fees, and people will still cruise in the same numbers, the cruise lines will do so, as they have a responsibility to their stockholders to earn as large of a profit as possible.

As regards nuclear power, we Oregonians have a bit of experience with that. We had a fission reactor plant here in Oregon, the Trojan Nuclear Plant. It is now closed due to two major problems -- ones that affect every nuclear power plant. One is that the cooling rods inside the reactor crack, which leads to a dangerous situation. So, they need to be replaced on a regular basis. And it's extremely expensive to replace them. As a byproduct of replacing them, the plant is shut down for months, and thus produces no power while it's offline. The second major problem, is what do you do with the vast quantities of highly radioactive waste? The Trojan Plant simply ran out of storage space of all that toxic stuff.

So, nuclear power isn't the be-all and end-all of power generation. It has its benefits and costs, just like any other method of power generation.

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Old February 16th, 2008, 07:57 AM
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Well, if a price must go up, then raise the over all price. I dont like nickle and dime charges on my bill. It's like the post office and their "fuel surcharge", its ridiculous, it wont go down, it wont go away, just add it and build it into the price of the item, whether cruise or parcel delivery. A cruise doesnt look better to me because it has a low price and then you add on many differant fuel charges.

RE Nuclear, I am not in favor personally. We have them in Ontario and they are plagued with poor maintainance and control. One was shut down this fall, and nearly wiped out the worlds supply of isotopes. ( big political hot topic item). Yes, on paper it is all good, but then all things look good on paper, the issue comes to bear when people run what is on paper and pliticians fund and care for what is on paper............I am not saying there are no plusses with this type of energy, but I am saying they should not be made out to be the solution to all of lifes energy problems, as they will generate their own set of issues, and accidents associated with this power are not easily recovered from.

As a society we need to recycle and resuse and reduce! When I sit in traffic, there are far to many huge has guzzling vehickles, and enourmous waste when it comes to consumption. Yes, other societies growing economy's are driving up the price, BUT we as North Americans consume way to much and we need to all take a look at what we do daily and the impact we leave on the planet.

I for sure have taken a look, and I have made alot of changes. Changes that are a way of life in Holland for a very long time. It helps our world, and I must say, my energy bills have gone down, in a time when all has gone up, my gas bill has gone down, and I win, that is money in my pocket book!
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Old February 16th, 2008, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfthus
RE Nuclear, I am not in favor personally. We have them in Ontario and they are plagued with poor maintenance and control. One was shut down this fall, and nearly wiped out the worlds supply of isotopes. ( big political hot topic item).
Delft: If you are referring to the Chalk River reactor, it is not used for nuclear power but for creating isotopes used in medical equipment and testing.

It is also over fifty years old. The technology, that is available today, for the construction and safeguards of nuclear reactors is almost equivalent in advancement to the technological leaps of the computer industry. New nuclear plants would be much safer than those built 20 years ago. The last nuclear power plant, in the U.S. was built over 20 years ago. I do not know when the last Canadian plant was built.

In regard to waste disposal most people run screaming at the idea of disposing it into the sun and say it's a terrible idea but it is not. Containers are available that will withstand the worst explosion that a rocket malfunction could create and it would also withstand an atmospheric reentry intact, with no nuclear leakage. The biggest problem would be if the container fell into an extremely deep oceanic trench and could not be retrieved.

I was watching a discussion on this and one anti-nuclear advocate said that even if everything worked we'd still be polluting our sun and this would increase global warming. This was one of the most idiotic things I'd ever heard. All of our combined nuclear waste would be the equivalent of spitting into the ocean plus the sun is one big nuclear reaction.

I really do believe that nuclear is something that should be part of our energy arsenal. Also more money should be spent on the development of a fusion reactor that would create safe power. However, the inroads into that technology have proved to be very small.

Take care,
Mike
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Old February 16th, 2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfthus
RE Nuclear, I am not in favor personally. We have them in Ontario and they are plagued with poor maintenance and control. One was shut down this fall, and nearly wiped out the worlds supply of isotopes. ( big political hot topic item).
Delft: If you are referring to the Chalk River reactor, it is not used for nuclear power but for creating isotopes used in medical equipment and testing.


Mike
Yes it is true that particular site is R&D , and produces isotopes for the world, as well as many other things including the testing of making of fuels for candu reactors however the area has a nuclear energy plant close by. The point is, Nuclear technology , no matter how it is used or what it is used for, has it's risks, and when discussing solutions one must always discuss its risk. Yes, this plant is old, but anything built today will be "old" again in 50 years time.......meaning that eventually when things get old, there will be even more problems, new technolgy that makes what we do today look silly, and there has to be the money, the care and the plans and the follow up to prevent problems and constatly upgrade technology. Something governments all around the world just do not do. Chalk River was also the site of Canadas two worste nuclear accidents.

"Chalk River Labs remain an AECL facility to this day and are used as both a research (in partnership with the NRC) and production facility (on behalf of AECL) in support of other Canadian electrical utilities"

I dont say AT ALL not to use this type of energy, but I always caution about solutions that are "all good". Every solution has a drawback, recognize the drawbacks and you can deal with them.
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Old February 16th, 2008, 02:24 PM
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Mean Dean, The plant you are talking about in Oregon is ancient technology. It has to be, since no nuclear plant has been sited anywhere in the United States since the early 70's. Since then, there have been several generation of new and improved nuclear plants. It's not the same thing at all. Also since then, France alone has sited, built and operated several dozen new generation nuclear plants without incident of any kind. Most of Europe has nuclear plants and they think we are somewhat addled in our irrational fear of them.

Your comments about there being 'vast quantities' of spent fuel and highly radioactive waste is simply untrue. A few tons per plant per year. It's no big deal. It should not be stored on site. It should be taken to the Yucca Mountain storage facility where thousands of years worth of it could be stored safely. That will never be necessary however since Yucca Mntn. will be obsolete before too much time has passed. In a few decades we will have the capability of shooting the stuff into the ultimate nuclear furnace, the sun, or into deep space. Also within 50 years, it is probable that the puzzle of nuclear fusion will have been solved and all our energy needs can be satisfied from that source, which produces no pollutants at all.

Meanwhile Dean , you have to decide whether you are really concerned about global warming and fossil fuels or not. It's up to you.

Wind, solar and biofuels are helpful, but they can never solve the problem.
Now there is a real 'inconvienient truth.'
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
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Old February 16th, 2008, 02:35 PM
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This really is a serious discussion, and one that I find myself thinking about a lot as I think of the future. There are no easy answers, but it's good to read people thoughts when it's discussed in a non-attacking way.

We are so dependent on our power systems. It seems that every time technology tries to move forward, it is stymied by groups that can only see the long range possible bad effects. Those need to be looked at too. It just seems that while we tread water waiting for the perfect solution, our ability to live the way we've grown accustomed to is teetering on the verge of extinction.

We all want, and to an extent need the comforts of heat, AC's, lights etc. I hope and pray that somehow we find a way before it's too late.

Renewable energy is only a small fix, and provides a very small part of our energy resources. Even with those, the power has to be sent out by transmission lines, and nobody wants to allow those to be built. So what do we do?

Liike so many people, I can only see the problems. Man I hope there are some geniuses out there somewhere that can solve them. :-)

For now, I'm glad we can cruise and escape the deep issues of life from time to time even if I have to pay a fuel surcharge.

Phyll
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Old February 16th, 2008, 02:40 PM
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Delph says, "Yes it is true that particular site is R&D , and produces isotopes for the world, as well as many other things including the testing of making of fuels for candu reactors however the area has a nuclear energy plant close by."

Well then delf, I guess your original post was more than just a little misleading wasn't it? You weren't talking about a new nuclear power plant at all, but an ancient research facility of some kind.

It is not the age of the plant that matters, it is the age of the technology. today's technology is vastly improved and vastly safer than that which existed 50 years ago. That is the point.

But you and mean dean do illustrate the point that unlike in Europe, irrational fear is preventing safe non polluting energy from being a reality in the U.S. and Canada.

Imagine driving your car to the store and back every day for an entire year without putting one gram of carbon or other pollutant into the atmosphere! No acid rain, no CO2, no global warming. Zilch, zero, nada
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
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Old February 16th, 2008, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Delph says, "Yes it is true that particular site is R&D , and produces isotopes for the world, as well as many other things including the testing of making of fuels for candu reactors however the area has a nuclear energy plant close by."

Well then delf, I guess your original post was more than just a little misleading wasn't it? You weren't talking about a new nuclear power plant at all, but an ancient research facility of some kind.

It is not the age of the plant that matters, it is the age of the technology. today's technology is vastly improved and vastly safer than that which existed 50 years ago. That is the point.

But you and mean dean do illustrate the point that unlike in Europe, irrational fear is preventing safe non polluting energy from being a reality in the U.S. and Canada.

Imagine driving your car to the store and back every day for an entire year without putting one gram of carbon or other pollutant into the atmosphere! No acid rain, no CO2, no global warming. Zilch, zero, nada
Excuse me sir, no where in my post did I say this was a new plant, absolutely no where. Therefore any one else reading it I doubt will feel mislead. Any one with knowledge of recent WORLD events will know this is not a new plant, and the problems of late both at the plant and the political fall out, and the fact the world depends on it greatly for isotopes......... despite its age, and the plant has indeed failed to implement things to ensure safety. That was MY point, that we as people need to make sure that the powers that be ensure that new or old, facilities are constantly maintained and upgraded for safety.
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Old February 16th, 2008, 05:55 PM
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well excuse ME Delf, I guess I was wrong about the word 'new,' but Nuclear power plants were the topic of discussion. No other type of nuclear facility was being discussed. You said:

"RE Nuclear, I am not in favor personally. We have them in Ontario and they are plagued with poor maintainance and control. One was shut down this fall, and nearly wiped out the worlds supply of isotopes."

You clearly left the impression, unintentionally I'm sure, that this was a nuclear power plant you were talking about. In any event it was in fact misleading. Power plant vs. no power plant -- that is what was misleading. Truth is, there was no problem with a nuclear power plant in Canada last fall right? Any impression you may have given to others to the contrary would be in error, right?

Incidentally, I follow the news carefully -- far more so than most, and I was unaware of the incident at all. Sorry about any misunderstanding.
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
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