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Old June 23rd, 2008, 05:19 PM
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Default This flight was cancelled due to....

A most unusual situation.

Passenger, Paul Jacobson, an energy company executive who was aboard United Flight 416 to Denver said "I'm roughly paraphrasing here, but the pilot came on the PA and said, Some of you may have witnessed an incident I was involved in at the gate. I'm not going to go into the details, but it was an interpersonal confrontation that upset me significantly to the point where I'm not focused enough to fly you to Denver."

Read the entire article at:


http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_...203x1200204554
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 05:43 PM
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It's really sad when labor-management relations cause this kind of thing to happen.

Even though I think "hat protests" are silly and meaningless (if that really was the issue), it is true that all pilots are trained to never leave the gate unless they are physically and mentally prepared to fly. That standard is really drummed into them. So from that standpoint the guy probably did the right thing.

The real issue is the atmosphere that made it happen, and whatever the details, that's very sad.

The thing that makes me really laugh is USA Today's "instant poll" sidebar that asks if you've ever been too upset to do your job. So dumb. Of course, they should have added, "May only be answered by those whose job directly involves the lives and welfare of 100 or more people at any given moment."
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Old June 27th, 2008, 12:47 AM
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Wow!
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Old June 27th, 2008, 03:32 AM
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I'm sorry, but I'm a nurse and I have to work, regardless of the stress I am under- when I lose a patient I am not allowed to leave the floor and go home. I have to continue my shift. Same with a confrontration with a supervisor or family. I am being paid to do my job. If I don't do my job and leave, I could be fired for patient abandoment.

If a pilot is upset over an argument about a hat, then I say he should find a different job. I have to do my job and when it is over, then I can fall apart and vent. Until then I am responsible for the welfare of my patients. And with all the pilots that have been laid off, I am sure there are many out there who would be willing to take over his job.

I hope all the passengers are compensated fairly for this situation. And not just a partial credit or refund. All should be refunded their full fare for this segment AND all their additional costs incurred covered.
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Old June 27th, 2008, 08:01 AM
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Lisa..it's in their contract...it actually is a good rule built around safety if you think about it...your job is on the ground
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Old June 27th, 2008, 09:03 AM
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I'm sorry, I have to side with the pilot as well. There are times when I certainly feel that I shouldn't fly,,,,hell there are times when I shouldn't DRIVE. The pilot absolutely did the right thing,,,and I for one wouldn't want to be a passenger when the pilot was stressed to the point of breaking,,,as this guy apparently was.

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Old June 27th, 2008, 12:56 PM
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I am glad he did what he did. Maybe more accidents could be prevented if others in many fields would do the same.
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Old June 28th, 2008, 04:48 PM
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Was he drunk? Just asking
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Old June 28th, 2008, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayvidB
Was he drunk? Just asking
No. Just answering.

But hey, thanks a lot for bringing it up, because we know that any time anything out of the ordinary happens regarding a pilot, alcohol must be the very first thing we suspect. As a class, we know they're a bunch of drunks who have no regard for safety or for the flying public as a whole.

But in this case, after checking at least 12 online stories, apparently it is what it was reported to be: the guy got upset over some labor relations issue.

A quick Google search would have indicated to you that no witness to the incident mentioned anything about alcohol, nor did any reporter speculate on the issue. If you had done that search there would have been no need for you to raise the question online.

Better luck stirring the pot next time.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 01:02 AM
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AR,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
It's really sad when labor-management relations cause this kind of thing to happen.
I agree completely.

And unfortunately, this is the type of relations that many union leaders view as their guarantee of job security and thus promote quite aggressively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Even though I think "hat protests" are silly and meaningless (if that really was the issue), it is true that all pilots are trained to never leave the gate unless they are physically and mentally prepared to fly. That standard is really drummed into them. So from that standpoint the guy probably did the right thing.

The real issue is the atmosphere that made it happen, and whatever the details, that's very sad.
If the reports are accurage, there's no doubt that the pilot acted correctly and that the airline should take very strong disciplinary action for unprofessional conduct against the person who upset him.

Norm.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 06:11 AM
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Shame you can't cruise to Denver. Wouldn't it be great to hear over the P/A,

"Ladies and gentlemen, now boarding at pier III, Royal Caribbean's cruise via the new Interstate Grand Canal System from Dover to Los Angeles with stops at Atcheson, Topeka and Santa Fe. Main seating in the Dining Room will be at six o'clock and the casino will be open as we sail through Nevada Please have your permanent sea pass in your hand bar code up. Thank you for sailing Royal Caribbean."

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Old June 30th, 2008, 06:15 AM
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Todd...doesn't Amtrak do that route now
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Old June 30th, 2008, 05:01 PM
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AR says "Better luck stirring the pot next time".

What pot am I stirring AR? Talk about pre conceptions of others

But if it helps thick people like me, then best to explain more in either the post or reply,,,I should not need to follow links to other sites to appreciate the discussion or problem.

Hence the question, dear oh dear,,,,as its real, but you say.

"But hey, thanks a lot for bringing it up, because we know that any time anything out of the ordinary happens regarding a pilot, alcohol must be the very first thing we suspect. As a class, we know they're a bunch of drunks who have no regard for safety or for the flying public as a whole".

I can't figure that one out, yes pilots have been removed from flights due to their blood/alcohol levels and from all over the world.

"As a class, we know they're a bunch of drunks who have no regard for safety or for the flying public as a whole"

That’s you being sarcastic, am I right?? To take your own advice, do some web searches on drunken pilots.

Here I will start you off, put this one in your browser

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23389549-details/Transatlantic+pilot+'more+than+six+times+over+alco hol+flying+limit'/article.do
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Old June 30th, 2008, 07:20 PM
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Let's be clear.

Most of the people on this board know very well that I have a son who's an airline captain. They also know that I've been flying as a passenger, regularly, for over 40 years, logging God knows how many million miles in the air. They also know that I follow the airline industry more closely than most, mainly just because I find it, along with a lot of other things, interesting.

Pilots, as a class, are the antithesis of a bunch of drunks. They are by leaps and bounds mainly extraordinarily careful, capable and caring people who feel a very strong sense of responsibility about what they do. Part of this is enlightened self-interest, since the front of the plane would hit the mountain first.

And yet, in the face of an utterly outdated and overtaxed air traffic control system in this country, our airliners and their crews have an exemplary safety record. It speaks for itself, and, knock on wood, it will continue to do so.

So yes, part of that post was sarcastic, and most of the regulars here understood that. Your post was what I call a "Molotov Cocktail," a cynical piece of hit-and-run innuendo, designed to suggest--in the form of a question--a cause for what happened that apparently has no basis in fact. In short, a cheap shot. I simply pointed out that in roughly the time it took you to post your "question," you could have done an internet search and discovered that no such suggestion had been made by anyone.

Of course I know that every once in a while a pilot is caught flying drunk. I also know that nobody ever reports that "Bill Smith flew five segments again today. As has been true for his entire career, he was sober and nothing bad happened." I also know that unlike most people, pilots are subject to random testing. After this incident, this guy was probably tested as a matter of routine. If anything was amiss in that regard, he will pay the price.

Finally, I know that a great many sober pilots will lose their jobs over the next several months--and they know it too. Literally thousands of them will be on the street wondering, after spending many years and many dollars learning a specialized skill, how they will support their families. It could be that this man stands to be one of them.

So perhaps a better and smarter question would have been "Was he worried that he'll be out of work by Labor Day?"
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Old July 1st, 2008, 05:44 PM
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So now we have the real story and your real concerns...well done. Just dont target me as your whipping boy, a totally over the top reaction.

Oh and sorry, but I have been on CM for 5 years and never knew this "Most of the people on this board know very well that I have a son who's an airline captain"

Well this member did not, not that it would have changed anything I said, as I was not being personal unlike you.

Sorry, but some of these boards get strangers or newbies dropping in, so please never work on the bases that "everyone already knows" your opinion, personal position or stance on a subject.

Your venom it appears has another directions that need fixed,,please use it more there than on me, it will be more productive.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 06:11 PM
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Just for the record, my son has enough seniority so that his job is not in danger. So your implication that my concern is only for him is misplaced.

You knock off the cheap shots and I'll knock off responding to them.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 06:29 PM
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venice,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Todd...doesn't Amtrak do that route now
Not quite. The California Zephyr goes from Chicago to Emeryville (for San Francisco) via Omaha, Denver, and Salt Lake while the Southwest Chief goes from Chicago to Los Angeles via Kansas City and Albuquerque, bypassing Denver. If you want to go from Denver to Los Angeles by train, the most direct routing is to take the Califronia Zephyr westbound to Oakland to connect with a Coast Starlight southboung from San Francisco to Los Angeles.

Norm.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa
I'm sorry, but I'm a nurse and I have to work, regardless of the stress I am under- when I lose a patient I am not allowed to leave the floor and go home. I have to continue my shift. Same with a confrontration with a supervisor or family. I am being paid to do my job. If I don't do my job and leave, I could be fired for patient abandoment.

If a pilot is upset over an argument about a hat, then I say he should find a different job. I have to do my job and when it is over, then I can fall apart and vent. Until then I am responsible for the welfare of my patients. And with all the pilots that have been laid off, I am sure there are many out there who would be willing to take over his job.

I hope all the passengers are compensated fairly for this situation. And not just a partial credit or refund. All should be refunded their full fare for this segment AND all their additional costs incurred covered.
In regards to peoples jobs, would it be fair to say that there are jobs that affect the health and well being of others and there are jobs that don't. If a bank teller is upset about something personal and gives me an incorrect amount of money on a withdrawal well....that didn't kill me! Why are medical errors in nursing such a problem? long hours, to many patients, demanding doctors etc. errors in the field can cause physical harm. It is unfortunate that the need to continue working compels you when you know your mental state may cause somone harm. I want my pilot focused.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 07:06 PM
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so I have to "change trains" ::

AR...as most know my son is a fighter pilot and I agree 199% with your profile about pilots..they take their job very seriously
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Old July 12th, 2008, 05:33 PM
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"You knock off the cheap shots and I'll knock off responding to them."

One mans opinion, can be seen as a cheap shot, buts thats opinion and mine is just that opinion, and never a cheap shot.

Your still taking this personally,,oh dear
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Old July 13th, 2008, 07:08 AM
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My comment of 30 June was a lame attempt at witticism at the possibility that many may soon be unable to afford to fly or drive and we'll have to resort to rivers and canals to traverse the U.S. But wouldn't that be cool. An interstate cruise industry! Heck, the Europeans already do it on their rivers. All we have to do is to expand our long time riverboat concept. Now there's something to consider!

As I've had decades long love of aircraft and have a great friend that is a retired senior/check pilot, I once asked him if he were ever pressured to "get off the ground." He said no but that young pilots were under some subtle pressure. He added that afterall, he was on the same airplane and if there was even the slightest thing he didn't like, that plane wasn't going anywhere, at least with him in the left hand seat!

All of which reminds me (which maybe some of you may remember) of twelve or fifteen years ago when I believe a Delta pilot at Atlanta, after waiting in line for what seemed like forever, pulled out of line and returned to the gate. They connected the jet way and he made an announcement that he'd had enough of "this crap" or something to that effect and stormed off the aircraft. I don't remember ever seeing a follow-up.
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