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  #31 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2008, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayvidB
"Here in the U.S., we have managed to go for almost forty years now with no decent energy policy and finally the chickens are coming home to roost
"
Agreed

But the real price we pay for gas today is actually home grown, in the collapse of the banking / mortgage market or industry. That collapse will affect everything we have to pay for, gas, food, electricity, tax etc etc

Invisible people speculating, that then becomes a reality for the real people.

So this PROBLEM is closer to home than some may think,,we brought it on ourselves, lending money to those in either mortgage or credit card,,,that could never realistically repay it.......There is your or our problem for the position we "normos" now FIND OURSELVES IN TODAY.

Its,,,home grown, by giving money to people that should never have been given credit in the first place...simple. ***inappropriate language edited***
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2008, 07:34 PM
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Phil and liz, Texaco has little to do with the 'oil market.' ExxonMobil is the largest American Oil Co. and it 'controls barely 3% of the world market. It is purely a matter of supply and demand. You should make an effort to see Ted Koppel's wonderful series, now showing on Discovery about China, 'The People's Republic of Capitalism.

The fact is that China is adding 25,000 new cars a day to the road -- that's 9 million cars a year. There is nothing that Texaco can do to control that demand! There is nothing we can do except exactly what I suggested above:

"The solution will require a full court press on three fronts, all at once:

Drill our domestic reserves now.

Develop alternative energy including, wind solar, nuclear.

Conserve what we have.

Above all -- declare a national emergency and a goal of energy independence by 2018 -- just as we declared the goal of putting man on the moon in a decade.

This policy will greatly enhance our national security, allow us to tell the Arab sheiks and wacko dictators to pound sand, reduce the chance of war, create new industries and millions Of course it would require politicians with backbone to stand up to both ExxonMobil and the Sierra Club. If they don't have the guts, we should fire them and get new ones who do. "

Once again, here's a link to a piece I wrote for the Denver Post Two weeks ago, on this subject:

http://www.denverpost.com/voices/ci_9755670

Until our politicians, from both parties, develop the guts to stand up to both big energy and to the Sierra Club and their ilk, we are doomed to ever higher gas prices, dependence on foreign oil, being shoved around by radicals and tinhorn dictators and deteriorating national security and a worsening economy.

Blaming Texaco is not a solution!!
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
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Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2008, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Blaming Texaco is not a solution!!
Huh? Where did I "blame" Texaco?
Ya know what... I should have included a link to the source of the quote. It was a quote, not MY words. I should have made that clearer....
http://www.boardingarea.com/osblog.php?id=2


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuki
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayvidB

Its,,,home grown, by giving money to people that should never have been given credit in the first place...simple. ***inappropriate language edited***
Yet again a thread that has gone astray...

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2008, 09:18 PM
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Ha, ha! Not so much a pessimist as a professional auditor and skeptic. You are right in that it is irrational to run a bank these days but this professional auditor has inspected the American financial house and found rot, rats, and termites galore. I call it as I see it and rationally won't approve a loan on this fixer-upper unless I see substantial repairs. 8)

Stagflation is a friend to nobody. Given our massive indebtedness, our passing off worthless mortgage backed securities to our European/Asian bankrollers (think we can fool them again?), and our inability to control our destiny (oil, etc.) I say we are ripe for a perfect storm, the random event that tips the scale and starts the extinction. Is America economically half as strong as you think or is this the century where we become just another has been nation, like England, Spain, or France? Hmmmm...I wonder....

This country looks good from your mile high tower (Denver), but down in the flatlands it is a mess. We need a sharp, radical shift in our economic course. Don't tilt at windmills - go out and build them like T. Boone Pickens says. And build them as fast as our navy fleet was rebuilt in WWII. Let's generate some cash and stop borrowing it. Build a windmill - blow away an arab! (with pardons to my kiddo's known Islamic cousins)

And yes, I am biased as my company is a big investor in wind power as is Texas. Bad taste to call a Texan a pessimist when you know our optimism here is larger than that in the 49 lesser states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Divemaster, you are an incurable pessimist. It is that very pessimism which is driving much of the current irrational economic woe.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2008, 12:01 PM
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Phil and liz, sorry if I misinterpreted, I guess it sounded like blame for the price of gasoline was being put on 'big oil' instead of market demand beyond any one's control.

Divemaster, I am no Pollyanna, and I have not said that we don't have severe economic problems. If you'll take the time to read a couple of my recent posts here, you'll see that instead of merely predicting doom, I propose some solutions to those problems, (just a T. Boone Pickens does, only he has only part of the picture IMHO) You are actually saying many of the same things I have said. (I am descended from a long line of Texans )

As for failing banks, we can overcome those problems just as we did in the 80's. I spent a good part of the 80s and early 90s putting bankers and S&L crooks who used their institutions as personal piggy banks in prison. They cost us many, many billions of dollars, but we recovered. and we will do so again.

Want someone to blame for our current economic woes? Let's take a look in the mirror. We are the ones who continue to elect politicians who kowtow to energy special interests, and to radical environmentalists and refuse to give us a viable energy policy As Pogo said: We have met the enemy and it is us."
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
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Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2008, 01:50 PM
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R&S:

The issue here is perspective. From up in Denver, after a distinguished career, and with a comfortable retirement, you are going to see things from one perspective.

Having toured the US last year in everything from a cruiseship to a bus to nail my 50 states, I got to see things from another perspective - and it ain't pretty. The nation's infrastructure is rotting, we are way too deep in debt, and about to foist our social (in)security system on a generation of kiddos who realistically have no means to bear support the old folks with Starbucks server salaries, even with tips.

My utility is in the trifecta of coal, nuclear and wind. We already have low energy rates and have a good picture of the future of energy. We really have no disagreements except that as a dive pro my vision is far forward. We are too late to the party for global warming and will have to face some nasty consequences. The die off in global fisheries, the die off of most reefs, and the enlargement of underwater dead zones is very real. The sky islands (isolated high mountain forests) of the American Southwest are going to take a severe hit and I have seen what will result in the mountains of West Texas which once were cooler and wetter.

As for Texans and the legal biz, you might appreciate James Madison Rose (Alamo) and James Taylor Gaines (Texas Declaration of Independence) and Walter Browne Botts (Baker Botts) are kinsmen. We could use you back home now as our current Bexar County District Attorney has a fondness for flying herself, staff, and family on stolen Southwest Airline vouchers as well as playing the Get Out of Jail Free Card for her son's buddies who illegally bring guns and ammunition into the San Antonio Airport. I'm the Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE) who has been calling for her resignation. I work down the street from the courthouse and the stench of corruption there is pretty bad.

Don't much care who got us into this economic mess, but we are not getting out without a radical shift in policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Phil and liz, sorry if I misinterpreted, I guess it sounded like blame for the price of gasoline was being put on 'big oil' instead of market demand beyond any one's control.

Divemaster, I am no Pollyanna, and I have not said that we don't have severe economic problems. If you'll take the time to read a couple of my recent posts here, you'll see that instead of merely predicting doom, I propose some solutions to those problems, (just a T. Boone Pickens does, only he has only part of the picture IMHO) You are actually saying many of the same things I have said. (I am descended from a long line of Texans )

As for failing banks, we can overcome those problems just as we did in the 80's. I spent a good part of the 80s and early 90s putting bankers and S&L crooks who used their institutions as personal piggy banks in prison. They cost us many, many billions of dollars, but we recovered. and we will do so again.

Want someone to blame for our current economic woes? Let's take a look in the mirror. We are the ones who continue to elect politicians who kowtow to energy special interests, and to radical environmentalists and refuse to give us a viable energy policy As Pogo said: We have met the enemy and it is us."
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2008, 01:53 PM
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I was quoted my own post back by Kuki, but not sure why, as there was no comment below my quote.

What were you going to say Kuki? I take it you dont agree, would like to know why?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2008, 05:13 PM
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Divemaster, You say, "Don't much care who got us into this economic mess, but we are not getting out without a radical shift in policy."

We are in 100% agreement on that

I don't see much difference in perspective. I spent half a lifetime in the energy business. Among other things I shot coal in a coal mine, worked as a core driller for both coal and uranium, worked on maintenance in a huge coal-fired power plant and drilled Seismograph shot-holes in at least ten states. My partner and I also jumped through all the hoops to obtain all the permits for a 1,500 megawatt, 1.5 Billion dollar power plant in Wyoming, a four year process requiring more than 35 contested hearings.

I say without a viable energy policy, our national security and our economy are both at risk. We'd better get our heads out -- and do it quick.
Richard
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2008, 05:13 PM
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Hi Divemaster,

Nice to hear from someone else from San Antonio, and I pretty much agree with you. My feeling is that if we can get past congress and go into an all our effort to drill for oil, develop coal gassification, build nuclear plants and wind farms we can achieve self sufficiency in about ten years and have literally millions of new jobs at good salaries. This will also bring the dollar back.

I really don't think that anything that man does will have a noticable effect on global warming. The earth will do as it wishes as it has many times in the past.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2008, 07:30 PM
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Yep, Richard, I hear you loud and clear. Best we fix the mess, but I'm afraid as an auditor I like to hedge risk. My family is already looking into dual citizenship status so my son's generation has the option to bail. Darned shame when the kinsmen of this country's founders feel the need to prepare a Plan B, but it is prudent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Divemaster, You say, "Don't much care who got us into this economic mess, but we are not getting out without a radical shift in policy."

We are in 100% agreement on that

I don't see much difference in perspective. I spent half a lifetime in the energy business. Among other things I shot coal in a coal mine, worked as a core driller for both coal and uranium, worked on maintenance in a huge coal-fired power plant and drilled Seismograph shot-holes in at least ten states. My partner and I also jumped through all the hoops to obtain all the permits for a 1,500 megawatt, 1.5 Billion dollar power plant in Wyoming, a four year process requiring more than 35 contested hearings.

I say without a viable energy policy, our national security and our economy are both at risk. We'd better get our heads out -- and do it quick.
Richard
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2008, 09:51 PM
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Duel citizenship where? Where do yo think you'll be better off? My guess is nowhere.
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Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
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RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2008, 02:08 AM
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Hi Paul:

We need a paradyme shift - full speed into windfarms and electrical transmission infrastructure with what is left of our manufacturing base. The rest can come later.

Man is having an effect already and it can be seen in the sea. The earth may do as it wishes but the sea tells the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B
Hi Divemaster,

Nice to hear from someone else from San Antonio, and I pretty much agree with you. My feeling is that if we can get past congress and go into an all our effort to drill for oil, develop coal gassification, build nuclear plants and wind farms we can achieve self sufficiency in about ten years and have literally millions of new jobs at good salaries. This will also bring the dollar back.

I really don't think that anything that man does will have a noticable effect on global warming. The earth will do as it wishes as it has many times in the past.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2008, 02:33 AM
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Divemaster, so where will you get your dual citizenship? What is keeping you from leaving now? By the way, be careful of new mark-to-market provisions on your way out.

Moderators, this thread has devolved from the OP's original question; can this be locked?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2008, 02:39 AM
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Italy with access to the EU. Not my generation with the option to go, but the next. We leave them with choice and choice is never a bad thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Duel citizenship where? Where do yo think you'll be better off? My guess is nowhere.
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Old July 14th, 2008, 08:40 AM
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[quote="Divemaster"]We leave them with choice and choice is never a bad thing.quote]

No choice worth making is ever easy.

Applies to many many tyhings in life.


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  #46 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2008, 11:27 AM
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Something to ponder, y'all...

CPS alternative program: Wind blows savings to customers
Web Posted: 07/13/2008 10:14 PM CDT
By Colin McDonald, San Antonio Express-News

For the first time, the rising cost of natural gas has made electricity from wind farms cheaper for CPS customers than power from gas plants.

Only two cities in Bexar County have signed up for CPS's Windtricity program, and both say they did so for the reason of supporting domestically produced clean energy.

But now their critics — who argued the decisions were a waste of taxpayer money — are paying 10 percent to 20 percent more for their power.

“It kind of takes the wind out of their sails,” said Bill Kiel a city councilman for Alamo Heights, which signed up for the program in June, following the city of Helotes, which agreed to the program in May.

Last summer, gas cost $7 per thousand cubic feet. This summer the cost is expected to average at least $11, according to CPS.

In May, the utility warned customers that their monthly utility bill would be $38 more if they used the average of 1,600 kilowatt-hours a month. Also at that time, the company billed Windtricity as a “premium service,” noting it would cost more but was a tangible way for customers to financially support efforts to reduce carbon emissions and stop or delay the construction of new power plants.

The privilege, CPS said, to aid the Desert Sky and Cottonwood Creek wind farms in West Texas was expected to cost customers between 10 percent and 20 percent more per month if they chose to buy all of their energy through the program.

In June, the price of fuel turned that premium into a discount.

“This happens only in months with extremely high fuel costs, which of course is exactly what has happened this month and last,” wrote CPS promotions manager Justin Chamberlain in an e-mail. “This situation is not expected to continue.”

Kiel, who spent 33 years conducting and overseeing natural gas exploration for Shell Oil Co., disagrees.

As soon as demand for gas in the Southeast begins to diminish with people turning off their air conditioners, those in the Northeast begin to turn on their heaters, causing gas prices to soar to the highest levels of the year, he explained.

“I expect them to be right back up or higher later this year,” he said

When he signed up in April, Kiel figured the cost difference between natural gas and wind would eventually be minimal as more wind farms were built and the price of natural gas continued to rise. But even he was surprised by how quickly his decision paid off.

When he signed up, his April bill was $28.52, more than if he had stayed with the standard rate. In May, he paid $6.27 more. In June, the capacitor of his air conditioner went out and he used 4,697 kilowatt-hours, almost four times what he usually uses. But because he had signed up for Windtricity, he paid $27.95 less.

“It seemed like a good bet to me,” he said.

Kiel was able to convince his fellow council members to unanimously vote in favor of the City of Alamo Heights' purchase of 100 percent Windtricity. The mayor and council members expressed concern the program was a “gimmick” to get them to pay more for the same thing. But the city, like any customer, could pull out of the program and return to the standard rate at any time.

Helotes agreed to the program as part of its campaign to distinguish itself as an environmentally progressive place to live and work. The two biggest selling points for the council was the promotion CPS promised to do for the city as its first municipal partner and the validity the carbon free power would give to the city's claim, said Rick Schroder, the city's Economic Development Specialist.

“A third part is we are actually paying less,” he said. “So for right now it is a win, win, win.”
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2008, 05:25 PM
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Yes divemaster wind generation will furnish a significant but moderately sized peice of the puzzle. But only one piece. It will help, but will not in itself give us anything approaching energy independance.
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2008, 05:58 PM
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So how will use of nonrenewable hydrocarbons permanently fix the energy situation - just a bandaid. Sure new offshore rigs make for great diving in the Gulf, but the coral will grow on them 3-4 years before they can spill a drop and spill they will.<g>

BTW, Richard, heard Soros? That billionaire is saying Godzilla has been sighted.

"It is the most serious financial crisis of our lifetime," said billionaire investor George Soros, noting a growing effect on the U.S. economy as a whole, rather than just financial markets. "It is an idle dream to think that you could have this kind of crisis without the real economy being affected.

"We are facing a recession and it is slow in coming but the slower it comes, the more powerful it is," Soros told Reuters.

History shows again and again, how nature points out the folly of men... 8)





Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Yes divemaster wind generation will furnish a significant but moderately sized peice of the puzzle. But only one piece. It will help, but will not in itself give us anything approaching energy independance.
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Old July 14th, 2008, 07:04 PM
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Ok, we haven't talked about the real issue here

At some point we WILL run out of oil.

We know it's coming; and we hope it's later rather than sooner. As someone said earlier, it's time -- NOW -- to land a man on the Moon again.

What's the most abundant substance in the Universe? Could it be used as an energy source? If so, wouldn't it make sense to begin work on that project RIGHT NOW? Before we run out of oil?

It's time to begin work on hydrogen fuel cell technology and cold fusion technology. To put the unlimited resources of the Universe to work for us.

These technologies will take much time to develop and implement worldwide. If all goes well, these technologies will be implemented BEFORE we run out of oil.........
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Old July 14th, 2008, 07:05 PM
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Energy is energy. Nuclear is a more important non-hydrocarbon source by far than wind. There is a role for solar as well, and fuel cell technology is going to play a significant role in future automotive industry. Meanwhile, we need to drill everywhere as rapidly as we can, and maximize use of coal as cleanly as we can.

At the same time, we must develop more efficient machines that get more work out of the same amount of energy, and conserve what we have.

Our national security is of utmost importance, doing all of the above will reduce the risk of war, and will stabilize our economy and create vast new prosperity by creating new industries and countless new jobs to take the place of those lost in the rust-belt.

If we are to survive, we must get beyond the Sierra Club mentality.

You want to go to Italy. God only knows why. But I guess you know the Europeans already get a substantial portion of their power from nuclear plants, their gas is twice as much as ours and thier economies are plauged by at least as many problems as ours with less potential for solution.

I have vast faith in the ingenuity, creativity and productivity of America. I'll stay here and help devise solutions to our problems.

Have a nice day.
Richard
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Old July 14th, 2008, 07:09 PM
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And yes Dean, eventually there is no doubt we will harness nuclear fusion -- the ultimate non-poluting source of power.

In the meantime, the Chinese ware putting 25,000 new cars a day on the road. Nine million a year
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
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Old July 14th, 2008, 07:13 PM
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First Richard wants to rig my ocean then Dean wants to drain it of hydrogen. Darned looters, stay out of my private trout pond.

Agree that hydrogen has a place at the table, particularly for short commute minicars. That said, if our companies would just let us all retire early we could solve the problem by trading our gas guzzlers for electric golf carts.

Do I hear an amen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Dean
Ok, we haven't talked about the real issue here

At some point we WILL run out of oil.

We know it's coming; and we hope it's later rather than sooner. As someone said earlier, it's time -- NOW -- to land a man on the Moon again.

What's the most abundant substance in the Universe? Could it be used as an energy source? If so, wouldn't it make sense to begin work on that project RIGHT NOW? Before we run out of oil?

It's time to begin work on hydrogen fuel cell technology and cold fusion technology. To put the unlimited resources of the Universe to work for us.

These technologies will take much time to develop and implement worldwide. If all goes well, these technologies will be implemented BEFORE we run out of oil.........
__________________
Amadeus:09Diamond;Celebrity:10Summit; HAL:87Rotterdam V,89Nieuw Amsterdam II,93Nordam III,94Ryndam III,96Westerdam III,99Veendam IV,01Maasdam V,02Amsterdam III,03Volendam III,03Zuiderdam II,04Westerdam IV,04Oosterdam I,05Zaandam III,06Statendam V,06Prinsendam II,07Nordam IV,08Eurodam I,08Rotterdam VI,09Veendam IV,09Volendam,10Nieuw Amsterdam IV,12Ryndam III,13Ryndam III, 14Volendam IV,14Eurodam;P&O:11Artemis;RC:07Splendour of the Seas,11Navigator of the Seas,12Majesty of the Seas;CDF:14Horizon
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Old July 14th, 2008, 07:15 PM
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As for Soros, divemaster, that's not a source I put much stock in. I'm sure it comes as no surprise to you that he finances moveon.org and is an anti-American far-leftist, billionaire or no. He has made his billions by destabilizing the currencies of other nations. Economic stability is not what he seeks.
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
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Old July 14th, 2008, 07:51 PM
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No need to drain the ocean! Besides, how would we cruise?!

Remember, hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the UNIVERSE. It's swirling all around out there. Why not harnass all that free stuff and put it to work?

Fuel cell cars? The world's energy needs are far too great for such small thinking. It's time to think a bit bigger....

A small fusion power source needs to be in every vehicle, every home, every building, every street lamp, every ship, every space craft.

And we need to develop this technology RIGHT NOW. Because when the oil runs out guess what happens then?

The Mother of all World Wars..........
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Old July 14th, 2008, 07:52 PM
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so does this mean on future cruises it will be powered by wind sails or oars ?
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Old July 14th, 2008, 07:58 PM
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You know Venice, there is something very majestic about a ship under full sail.

John Masefield said it best in his poem Sea Fever:

And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by
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Old July 14th, 2008, 08:51 PM
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Until we can develop the kind of major change technology Dean is talking about in harnessing fusion, I think there is a real chance that we will see more wind power in the form of sails on the seas. In truth oil won't disappear anytime soon. But the demand for it is increasing so rapidly because of China and India, that the price will double or triple in the next 15 or twenty years. You can take that to the bank! So Sails and modified coal to steam turbine power of ships become quite attractive. Otherwise the cost of cruising could just become prohibitive for the vast majority of us.
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
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Old July 14th, 2008, 09:46 PM
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Mean Dean...I'll tell you in about a month when I go on my Maine Windjammer cruise
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Old July 14th, 2008, 09:50 PM
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Divemaster, you lost all credibility by quoting Soros.
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Old July 14th, 2008, 11:04 PM
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Marc, I second that!
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
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