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  #31 (permalink)  
Old September 14th, 2008, 03:29 PM
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It does not work in recent confilcts because we try to be the "good guy" and show an alternative to these people at the same time.

It is today so grey for our forces, who's the good guy, who is the bad guy in this country that I have just been dumped in.

So yes politicians can set goals, but in reallity for the men and women on the ground, it must be so difficult. Unfortunately they dont wear a "uniform" and more.

Is it an innocent farmer in my sights or is it a legitimate target...

Dont know how they do it today, I can say this because I experienced it on tours in Northern Ireland,,,,, who is the enemy here?
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Old September 28th, 2008, 06:26 AM
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You know, this is getting to be ridiculous…….

Thursday, Somali pirates commandeered a cargo vessel carrying a substantial quantity of ammunition, spare parts – and oh, by the way, 33 Russian T-72 main battle tanks……

The United States Navy can’t decide what to do, but has threatened to dispatch an antenna ship.

You’ve got to be kidding me…..

The United States Navy used to be the most formidable naval combat force in history. September of 1945, the United States Navy 7th Fleet filled Tokyo Harbor with a hundred surface combat ships, most of which were large-caliber naval artillery ships.

This has got to end. It is time to scrap every single antenna ship in the United States Navy. Every single one of them….

And it’s not just me that reads the papers. Dad reads them too, and spits in disgust……

After Savo Island, United States Navy heavy cruiser USS Chicago CA 29 had fired so many main battery projectiles downrange, it had literally shot the linings out of its main battery rifles. Dad, inspecting #3 turret’s 8” rifles, discovered that its rifles had their linings shot 10” out of their barrels.

Heavy cruiser USS Chicago CA 29’s main battery rifles were so worn out after Savo Island, that all 9 of them were replaced with brand new 8” rifles.

The United States Navy spent millions to replace USS Chicago CA 29’s large-caliber main battery rifles.

It’s not an easy thing to replace large-caliber surface combat rifles. 16” large-caliber rifles, with the breach, weigh over 239,000 pounds. At Mare Island, San Francisco, California, special cranes had to be brought in to install USS Chicago CA 29’s new main battery rifles.

How many cranes are necessary to install new antennas……….?

In 1942, the United States Navy spent millions on the upkeep of its large-caliber surface combat rifles. Today the United States Navy spends millions on antennas.

So what are we getting for our millions? Surface-scan radars that tell us that the enemy is out there? That they have machine guns, and we have nothing, so we’d better run and hide?

That pirates armed with machine guns and RPG’s commandeer vessels carrying enemy main battle tanks that could be used against us, and all the United States Navy can do is run and hide? All the United States Navy can do is to maybe consider sending an antenna ship?

I want off this train wreck. And I want a refund. Of all the tax dollars that I spent on the United States Navy.

If the United States Navy cannot sail out surface combat ships to confront small-caliber pirates, I don’t want any part of it.

There was a time not so long ago that anyone challenging the United States Navy was met with large-caliber rifle fire. The United States Navy conducted Freedom of Navigation exercises, punctuated by large-caliber naval rifle fire. Even in the late-1980’s United States Navy large-caliber surface combat ships conducted live-fire exercises off the coasts of potential adversaries. The United States Navy didn’t fool around.

When United States Marines landing at Guadalcanal in 1942 radioed United States Navy heavy cruiser, USS Chicago CA 29, they weren’t interested in surface-scan radar readings, they were interested in 8” large-caliber main battery rifle fire. USS Chicago CA 29, cruising off shore, responded to United States Marine requests with sustained large-caliber main battery rifle fire.

Dad, a United States Navy combat veteran learned important lessons at Savo Island. At Tulagi. At Guadalcanal. At Rennell Island. At the Solomon Islands.

That the enemy responds favorably to large-caliber rifle fire.

That enemy small-caliber ships respond very favorably to United States Navy large-caliber rifle fire.

Tax dollars spent my way, small-caliber Somali pirates operating off the coast of Somalia would be answered with a United States Navy heavy cruiser division.

Tax dollars spent on low-cost, large-caliber bruisers pay immediate dividends……..
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Old September 28th, 2008, 11:05 AM
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I'm all for a blockade of the Somali coast extending into the Indian Ocean with a blanket shoot to kill any vessel that approaches in aggression.

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old September 28th, 2008, 06:50 PM
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Mean Dean,

If you love 8"50's then you'd love what I was standing alongside of about ten days ago. Would you believe a turret with three Mark VII 16"/50's? They could hurl a 2,700 mile shell approximately 23 miles with pin point accuracy.

A 2,700 pound HC (High Capacity shell) from just one of those babies will instantly create a crater 20 feet deep by 50 feet wide. A 2,700 lb. AP (armor Piercing) round will penetrate over twenty inches of steel.

For those who find it hard to imagine a 2,700 pound artillery round, just imagine trying to pick up a Volkswagen Beetle...they both weigh the same.

Todd
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old September 28th, 2008, 07:13 PM
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hey, when I was in college in the 60's, 4 of us could p/u my 59 beetle and carry it across a parking lot filled with snow ::
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Old September 28th, 2008, 09:07 PM
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Yup Venice, MD 20-20 and Ripple shore 'nuff could move Volkswagen's across snowy parkin' lots but shucks boy, what we distilled 'round here'd make 'em truly fly!

Todd
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old September 29th, 2008, 03:02 AM
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Todd my friend..what you distill in" them there hills" kept the revenue agents pretty busy in your neck of the woods and fueled the start of NASCAR
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 05:01 AM
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You’ve got to be kidding me………

And so Somali pirates hijack yet another cargo ship off the coast of Somalia, and the United States Navy takes immediate action.

The events as recorded by CNN, via the United States Navy Fifth Fleet:

The Carter Hall crew fired machine gun bursts, first as warning shots and then disabling shots.

"She fired several warning shots and fired disabling shots at three skiffs [small boats] in tow behind the White and pretty much destroyed the skiffs," Lt. Denise Garcia of the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet told Reuters news service. Pirates used the skiffs to board the cargo ship, she said.
But the pirates were able to sail the ship into Somali waters where the U.S. warship would not follow them.


And so a United States Navy warship, engaged in surface combat with pirates, fired the best it had to offer – a machine gun. (The term, “warship” used loosely here, obviously.)

And then the United States Navy warship, engaged with the enemy, “would not follow them.”

You have got to be kidding me………….

So what is it that the United States Navy doesn’t get? What part of surface COMBAT are we not getting here?

Pirates hijack ships because they have absolutely no respect for the surface combat capability of the United States Navy. They know they can get away with it. They know the United States Navy has absolutely no surface combat capacity whatsoever.

Now visualize an alternative scenario.

Somali pirates hijack a cargo ship, off the coast of Somalia, and hold the crew for ransom.

The United States Navy, having learned its lessons well, responds to the hijacking.

The United States Navy dispatches one, large-caliber surface combat warship to negotiate with the pirates.

Negotiations are carried out as follows:

Commanding officer, United States Navy warship to commander, Somali Pirates: “Surrender your vessel.”

Somali pirates respond with machine gun fire.

Commanding officer, United States Navy warship, irritated with the pace of negotiations takes another tack.

United States Navy warship trains out 9 large-caliber rifles and orders pirates to surrender the vessel, or go down with it.

Negotiations conclude swiftly……

So what’s it going to be, people? Continue to sail little gray ships that are so top-heavy with antennas that they almost keel over? Continue to sail little gray ships that back down from pirates? Continue to sail little gray ships that have no surface combat ability whatsoever?

Or are we going to sail ships a little sturdier? Warships that don’t back down. Warships that engage the enemy and prevail. Warships that nobody messes with…..

United States Navy large-caliber surface combat warships like these:


(United States Navy heavy cruiser, USS Chicago CA 29, along the Willamette River, Portland, Oregon, August, 1936)


It's time to write your Congressmen, People.......
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old October 3rd, 2008, 06:32 AM
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Mean Dean

Or how about USS Wisconsin, 9 16"/50 Caliber rifles and 12 5"/38's. Norfolk VA, September 2008.

BTW, the ship surrounded by US flagged vessels in Somali waters, is as I understand it a Russian owned vessel (or better put a vessel owned by a country influenced by Russia) and is loaded with T-72 tanks and other weaponry and will not be allowed to unload it's cargo in Somalia . A Russian warship with Russian Marines aboard is en route to the scene, presumably to retake the vessel.

If I understand it, the original crew are still aboard the hijacked vessel and I'm sure the situation would have been rectified by now were they to have been off the vessel. I believe any hesitancy in finalizing the situation is out of a result for concern for the civilian crew of the vessel as even a Navy "antennae ship" possesses much more than needed capability to board and retake such a vessel. Just an M-61 20 MM Vulcan currently manufactured by General Dynamics is far more than sufficient to perform such a task. Being able to fire 6000 rds. per minute, it would, shall we say, be quite adept at sweeping the decks clean of any extraneous matter including people and depending upon the ammunition used, probably up to and including even the majority of superstructure as well, Of course, it could also be assisted when necessary by an often accompanying 5"/54 with a capability 54 rounds per minute. With recent increase in technology as to the projectile, this weapon would be more than necessary to make short work of such a vessel four times the size as the one being currently addressed.

Despite all of the above, I like you, still would like to see real intimidation used and that is best done by the older warships you and I have described. I'd love to see the look on the faces of those uneducated pirate poor excuse for human beings were the USS Chicago or Wisconsin to sail out of history and over the horizon. Once arrived they could radio to the pirates, "Welcome sportsfans to the 17 Virgins whoop-dee-doo."

It brings to mind that movie adage voiced by Det. Harry Callahan, "You got's to know your limitations."

Todd

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old October 3rd, 2008, 07:09 AM
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once it's resolved..bet we see a story line on NCIS before the end of the tv season

I agree with Todd
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old October 10th, 2008, 02:50 AM
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Todd,

You and I agree and disagree.

We agree on the subject of large-caliber rifle fire.

We disagree on the effects of small-caliber rifle fire…..

There is a general belief out there that 5”/38 caliber projectiles have any sort of effect on targets. That they somehow actually cause damage to the targets they’re fired at. That a surface ship sporting these pop-guns might actually be able to sink an enemy ship.

We Oregonians have particular experience with 5”/38 caliber rifles……….

4 February 1999, bulk cargo ship, MV New Carissa runs aground on the beach at Coos Bay, Oregon, United States.

MV New Carissa’s fuel bunkers were breached in her grounding, spilling over 70,000 gallons of bunker fuel along Oregon’s coast. The beaches at Coos Bay, Oregon, United States were devastated. Wildlife habitats along the coast of Coos Bay have not yet recovered, nine years later.

During salvage operations, MV New Carissa broke in two, leaving the bow afloat, and the stern firmly aground, and leaking. The State of Oregon decided to have salvors tow the bow section out to sea for disposal. The United States Navy eager for target practice offered antenna ship, United States Navy destroyer, USS David R. Ray DD 971 to expedite the disposal process.

United States Navy antenna ship, USS David R. Ray DD 971 took station 5000 yards abeam of MV New Carissa. United States Navy antenna ship USS David R. Ray DD 971 commenced main battery rifle fire on bow section of MV New Carissa.

With no discernable effect…….

United States Navy antenna ship, USS David R. Ray DD 971 fired 69 - 5”/38 caliber main battery projectiles at a hulk, on the verge of sinking on its own volition -- with no discernable effect.

69 rounds…….

69 main battery projectiles from a United States Navy warship could not sink a derelict hulk barely afloat.

69 rounds……..

United States antenna ship, USS David R. Ray DD 971 giving up in disgust, called for help. The United States Navy then sent United States Navy fast attack submarine, USS Bremerton SSN 698.

United States Navy fast attack submarine, USS Bremerton SSN 698, took station 10,000 yards off MV New Carissa, and fired a single high-explosive torpedo, which quickly dispatched MV New Carissa.

Euphoric with victory, United States Navy antenna ship, USS David R. Ray DD 971, returned to United States Naval Base, San Diego, California, United States. United States Navy fast attack submarine USS Bremerton SSN 698 resumed its patrol in the Western Pacific.

And so – the United States Navy. All that and a bag of chips.

Just like 9 August 1942, off the coast of Savo Island……..

A United States warship sails 40 miles off the coast of Oregon, and commences main battery rifle fire at a non-moving derelict. The United States Navy warship fires 69 main battery projectiles, and fails to sink the derelict.

Of course, history never repeats itself.

As such, the United States Navy today sails the high seas.

Pirates everywhere are quaking in their boots........
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old October 10th, 2008, 04:04 AM
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Wow...let's hope none of the pirates post on CruiseMates..just curious, what was the Navy's official "spin" on that exercise ?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old October 10th, 2008, 04:49 AM
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Venice,

The United States Navy had no official "spin", other than to say that it had successfully conducted a naval gunnery exercise........
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old October 10th, 2008, 05:01 AM
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Very interesting Mean Dean and what you write jives with a somewhat similar exercise conducted by the Canadian Navy to sink a decommissioned Destroyer which was also eventually sunk by torpedo from a US Navy Attack Submarine.

Your's is one very valid reason (to me at least), why we should have some artillery similar to what we have previously described, still in use.

All that being said, I can't believe that sweeping the decks of a pirate vessel with an M-61 Vulcan firing up to 6,000 rounds of 20mm high explosive and/or AP ammunition wouldn't make occupancy of a pirate mother ship (which probably wouldn't even be in the 3 thousand or so ton range) absolutely untenable. It could very conceivably even sink such a vessel if the fire is directed at one position at the water line.

I am personally very familiar with the effects of that weapon and on the off chance that you aren't, can tell you of its remarkable abillity at wreaking devastation on almost anything. You ramp that up to 30mm and well..........there would be almost no escape on most any commercial vessel even though the exact same munitions being fired from a standard automatic weapon may not have the desired effect. To give you an idea, the 30 mm variant as deployed on a Warthog can almost instantly put book to a T-72 Battle Tank. Now take a version of the same system, mount it on a naval vessel and hook it up to enough ammunition to fill 500 Warthogs and.............................................

In closing, I still agree with you if possibly not for all of the same reasons.

Todd
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old October 10th, 2008, 06:45 PM
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Dean,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Today’s United States Navy is a technological wonder. The command center aboard an aircraft carrier can pull together data from aircraft, satellites, and the radars of all of its screening ships. The Navy’s command centers computers are networked together and can see all of the world all at once, in real time.

The Navy’s surface and subsurface ships can fire cruise missiles and hit targets from hundreds of miles away. The Navy’s F-18 attack aircraft can drop 1000-pound bombs with GPS precision.

So what does all of this mean? The United States Navy can see the world, and attack selected targets with cruise missiles and aircraft. A few dozen attack aircraft dropping 1000-pound bombs, and more cruise missiles with 500-pound warheads.

A few bombs for a few minutes. Whoo hoo…….

Recently, Iranian gunboats harassed Navy ships as they passed through the Strait of Hormuz. Iranian gunboats made high-speed passes -- and the Navy warships pointed machine guns at them.

In 2008, United States warships responded to hostile vessels by pointing small arms at them.

In 1942, nobody harassed the United States Navy. If hostile vessels had threatened Dad’s ship, heavy cruiser USS Chicago CA 29, they’d have been answered with a 9-gun salvo of 8” rifle fire.

Today’s navy is too much brains and not enough brawn.

I look at today’s naval vessels and I have trouble figuring out what they do. They have lots of antennas…….

Lots of antennas….. That’ll send shivers down your spine……..

High-tech isn’t the answer. Radars and satellites aren’t the answer. 9 August 1942, off the coast of Savo Island, the United States had a decided technological advantage over the Japanese. The U.S. Navy employed fire control radars, and the Japanese employed searchlights and binoculars.

At Savo Island, the United States Navy, engaged by the Japanese Navy, lost 4 heavy cruisers, the Japanese suffering but a scratch. The United States lost heavy cruisers USS Astoria CA 34, USS Vincennes CA 44, HMAS Canberra, and USS Quincy CA 39. High-tech vs. low-tech – and high-tech got its butt kicked.

Of course, history never repeats itself…….

It’s time to scrap our navy. Ships with antennas serve no purpose. I’m sure our adversaries recoil in fear of antennas…….

In Afghanistan, United States Navy aircraft buzz about the mountains, drop a few 1000-pound GPS guided bombs and depart. The Taliban retreat into caves, and wait for the F-18’s to leave.

In 1942, a Northampton-class heavy cruiser could bombard the enemy indefinitely. In 1942, the enemy could expect to be under United States Navy 8” rifle fire, not for minutes but for weeks. At Tulagi, USS Chicago CA 29, while off shore, had 8” ammunition barged to her, and maintained 8” shore bombardment for several days.

The Taliban is advancing against NATO in Afghanistan. Yesterday they attacked and overran a United States Marine firebase, killing 9 Marines

I wonder how far they’d advance under United States heavy guns......?
The first problem here is that you are discussing about 25% of the Navy and ignoring the role of the rest.

>> The Navy's SEAL teams are, quite literally, the most capable and robust special forces in the world. They operate undetected in hostile territory routinely, gathering vital intelligence and illuminating targets with laser designators that guide bombs from carrier aircraft onto them with pinpoint precision. And unlike the Air Farce, the Navy's aircraft do require neither proximate friendly land bases nor dependence upon in-flight refueling to strike targets in the most distant regions of the world.

>> The Navy's ground forces, also known as the U. S. Marine Corps, is the world's most robust and most effective ground combat force. Further, each marine combat unit has both organic air support and an organic logistics team that permits it to sustain operations indefinitely. And unlike other ground forces, which typically require a friendly host near the area of engagement in order to land or go ashore, the U. S. Marines can land in hostile territory from naval ships designed to transport them anywhere in the world.

>> And for follow-on to ground operations, the Navy's Construction Battalions ("SeaBees") provide a very capable engineering and construction capability that can build or repair both bases to sustain futher operations and infrastructure for civilian populations in conquered territory.

>> Finally, the Navy also has significant forces capable of conducting sustained operations in along coastlines and rivers, generally called "brown water" operations.

And as others have pointed out, a battle group assembled around an aircraft carrier is not as vulnerable as you suppose. It was the Navy's SM-3 missile that shot down a spent satellite just a few months ago....

But I do agree with others that bringing battleships, with their 16"/50 cal. main batteries, back to the fleet would be a great idea.

Actually, an even better idea would be to build a class of modern battleships on a Nimitz class hull....

Norm.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old October 10th, 2008, 07:40 PM
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and what about the parts of the world that is not near water and out of reach of those big guns and the SEALS ? (comment from an Air Force person)
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Old October 11th, 2008, 12:59 AM
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Dean,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
You’ve got to be kidding me………

And so Somali pirates hijack yet another cargo ship off the coast of Somalia, and the United States Navy takes immediate action.

The events as recorded by CNN, via the United States Navy Fifth Fleet:

The Carter Hall crew fired machine gun bursts, first as warning shots and then disabling shots.

"She fired several warning shots and fired disabling shots at three skiffs [small boats] in tow behind the White and pretty much destroyed the skiffs," Lt. Denise Garcia of the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet told Reuters news service. Pirates used the skiffs to board the cargo ship, she said.
But the pirates were able to sail the ship into Somali waters where the U.S. warship would not follow them.


And so a United States Navy warship, engaged in surface combat with pirates, fired the best it had to offer – a machine gun. (The term, “warship” used loosely here, obviously.)

And then the United States Navy warship, engaged with the enemy, “would not follow them.”

You have got to be kidding me………….

So what is it that the United States Navy doesn’t get? What part of surface COMBAT are we not getting here?

Pirates hijack ships because they have absolutely no respect for the surface combat capability of the United States Navy. They know they can get away with it. They know the United States Navy has absolutely no surface combat capacity whatsoever.

Now visualize an alternative scenario.

Somali pirates hijack a cargo ship, off the coast of Somalia, and hold the crew for ransom.

The United States Navy, having learned its lessons well, responds to the hijacking.

The United States Navy dispatches one, large-caliber surface combat warship to negotiate with the pirates.

Negotiations are carried out as follows:

Commanding officer, United States Navy warship to commander, Somali Pirates: “Surrender your vessel.”

Somali pirates respond with machine gun fire.

Commanding officer, United States Navy warship, irritated with the pace of negotiations takes another tack.

United States Navy warship trains out 9 large-caliber rifles and orders pirates to surrender the vessel, or go down with it.

Negotiations conclude swiftly……

So what’s it going to be, people? Continue to sail little gray ships that are so top-heavy with antennas that they almost keel over? Continue to sail little gray ships that back down from pirates? Continue to sail little gray ships that have no surface combat ability whatsoever?

Or are we going to sail ships a little sturdier? Warships that don’t back down. Warships that engage the enemy and prevail. Warships that nobody messes with…..

United States Navy large-caliber surface combat warships like these:


(United States Navy heavy cruiser, USS Chicago CA 29, along the Willamette River, Portland, Oregon, August, 1936)


It's time to write your Congressmen, People.......
Our navy's 5"/54 cal. and 5"/62 cal. guns mounted on each of our Navy's so-called "cruisers" and destroyer are fully capable of sinking any vessel now at sea except perhaps an aircraft carrier. There are very few vessels on the seas that have any significant armor now. Small as they may seem, these guns actually fire shells that are too big for the small boats (essentially rubber rafts) that the pirates use to board their targets and many of the small boats that the Iranians are using to menace our ships as well (though come to think of it, their antiaircraft rounds probably would be ideal for such applications). Nonetheless, machine gun fire that punctures the rubber bladders will sink those boats quite nicely. Of course, one needs to sink them before the pirates get to their target vessel....

That said, using our Navy's guns to sink a vessel commandeered by the Somali pirates would endanger the crew of the pirated vessel as well as the pirates, drawing formal diplomatic protests from their countries. Thus, for better or worse, our Navy does exercise the restraint demanded by the politics of the situation.

Norm.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old October 11th, 2008, 01:05 AM
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venice,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
and what about the parts of the world that is not near water and out of reach of those big guns and the SEALS ? (comment from an Air Force person)
There are none. Every square inch of land in the world is within reach of carrier-based aircraft because an aircraft carrier can go where it's needed. Our aircraft carriers also do have aircraft capable of refueling the attack planes en route if necessary, as they use S-3's for this purpose.

Norm.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old October 11th, 2008, 01:38 AM
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so why do we need in other branch of service
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Old October 11th, 2008, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Thus, for better or worse, our Navy does exercise the restraint demanded by the politics of the situation.
Norm.

This is the problem. Too much restraint. The US is no longer seen as the power. I thought we didn't bow to the "demands" of terrorists.

Oh,, and Venice, the SEALs can get anywhere, often with the help of the Marines or another force.

Phil & Liz
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Old October 11th, 2008, 05:16 PM
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Navy SEALS are always welcome in New Orleans as long as they bring Demi Moore 8)
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Old October 12th, 2008, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
Navy SEALS are always welcome in New Orleans as long as they bring Demi Moore 8)
Hollywood messed that up.

Once you ring that bell you are GONE !

Phil & Liz
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20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 08:13 PM
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they mess up alot when it comes to making movies about our military...'Top Gun comes to the top of my mind
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Old October 12th, 2008, 11:02 PM
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Hollywood not only messes up when they make movies about our military, they actually unabashedly unbelievably twist or even rewrite history to meet their script purposes in probably over 99 percent of all movies made about an historical event. If it weren't so very sad, it'd be laughable. I say that, for most Americans are so deficient in their knowlege of history, that they don't even know it's been altered for every reason from "keeping it exciting" to, as is more frequently (and sadly) the case, political purposes.

Todd
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Old October 13th, 2008, 06:59 PM
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Now that we’ve established the need to scrap the United States Navy as it is currently constituted, I have a proposal for consideration and ratification by the Congress.

Scrap every antenna ship afloat, under repair, or on order. Keep on hand a few divisions each of Aegis FFG’s, DDG’s, and CG’s to screen the aircraft carriers.

Begin construction on several new classes of large-caliber surface combat ships:

Proposed classes:

Several divisions of Alaska-Class Large Heavy Cruisers. United States Navy large heavy cruiser, USS Alaska CB 1, as laid down 17 December 1941: 35,000 tons, 9-12”/50 caliber main battery rifles, 32 knots.

Several divisions each of Des Moines-Class and Northampton-Class Heavy Cruisers. 17,000 tons, and 10,000 tons respectively, 9-8”/45 caliber main battery rifles, 32 knots

Two divisions of Iowa-Class Fast Battleships. 45,000 tons, 9-16”/50 caliber main battery rifles, 32 knots.

Maintain Aircraft Carrier forces and Submarine forces at current strengths.
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Old October 13th, 2008, 07:30 PM
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Once the United States Navy is capable of surface combat operations, a force-projection proposal:

Sail a United States Navy heavy cruiser division off the coast of Somalia, and begin large-scale, large-caliber main battery naval gunnery exercises. Let the natives hear United States Navy thunder.

Schedule Port of Call visits around the world for United States Navy large-caliber artillery ships. Let the enemy have a close look down the barrels of large-caliber main battery rifles.

Begin Freedom Of Navigation exercises in hot-spots around the world. Let the enemy know that this United States Navy doesn’t get pushed around – it does the pushing around.

When the United States Marines come ashore, it will be done under the cover of United States Navy heavy guns.
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Old October 13th, 2008, 10:32 PM
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Hey Mean Dean. Why in the world would you want to go with Iowa Class?

If we're gonna' do it then why not go for the gusto, up grade the plans for and then build the 60,500 ton Montana Class. They'll sport TWELVE 16"/50's!

Todd
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Old October 13th, 2008, 11:06 PM
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Todd,

I see your point -- and applaud your gusto!

But the issue with the Montana Class, is that they are so heavily armored, that they're actually slower than the Fast Battleships.

The Iowa Class is a little lighter in armor, and less in overall tonnage, and can arrive on station sooner.

Better to have 9-16" rifles on time, than 12-16" rifles too late.

Or, if money's really no object, build a division of each class for maximum flexibility.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 04:33 AM
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and during peace time can they be converted for cruising passengers ?
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Old October 17th, 2008, 11:16 AM
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Somali pirates hijacked an*Iranian vessel with enriched*uranium from China! See here: http://samsonblinded.org/news/somali...cal-cargo-3525
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