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Old August 28th, 2009, 02:49 AM
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Default Passenger put off Celebrity ship. Paul story 8/13

Regarding Paul Motter's story about Dean, the passenger put off a Celebrity ship; I'm delighted to know Celebrity took action and enforced their rules. This man was allegedly rude, verbally abusive and uncooperative to fellow passengers and shipboard personnel; not to mention that he looks ready for a fight (if the photo is him). Paul states Dean did not take the ship's officers seriously; then Paul says he thinks Dean should have been given a second chance (maybe then Dean would take them seriously)? Because Paul did not write Celebrity's side of the story, we don't know whether or not Dean was given a second chance; but it sounds like he was given the benefit of the doubt.
What we do know is this: The Captain of a ship has the authority to make and enforce decisions regarding the welfare of his crew and the passengers onboard. This is what the Celebrity Captain did and he should be commended for it.
Hopefully, storys like this will deter those who feel 'entitled' to behave as Dean.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 10:36 AM
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I think you need to go back and read Paul's post again, because it was in my view a very blalanced well written artickle and I felt the same way as he did when I heard about what happened.

Interesting to that your very first post is to slam what Paul wrote about this incident....especially in a chit chat section!

Sure the captain has the authority, but did show the wisdom , the judgment to do what is fair , to do what is right?
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:00 PM
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You seem defensive, in what way do you think my post 'slammed' Paul? I wrote about this here because the ad for 'chit chat' says to use it to write about what's on your mind.
I wrote about this post because I just returned from a cruise (#37) and have seen this type of behavior escalate when not immediately addressed. When you agree to be a passenger of a cruise ship, you agreee to abide by the authority of the Captain.
I still believe the Ship's Captain always operates in the best interest of the crew and passengers, and he was within his right to put this passenger off of the ship.
By the way, the article said the Captain was in touch with headquarters in Miami, so obviously, it was a joint decision by the company and the Captain.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 10:06 PM
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With all due respect, I think you're missing something here, seacookie.

While I'm not even going to voice my opinion as regards whether or not the fellow should have been disembarked. What I am going to say relative to this incident is, if developement occurred as related, why wasn't something done to the instigator who kept insisting the American speak English? Why didn't one of the table employees or pit bosses themselves turn to the Russian and tell him in English (his obvious language of preference) that no passenger was restricted in using any language he so chose as long as the person with whom he was communicating spoke the same language.

It was actually the fault of the ship's staff that the incident even continued to it's regrettable conclusion.

Todd
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Old August 28th, 2009, 11:11 PM
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1. The captain has the right to throw you off the ship for any or no reason. 2. The captain, and by extension the crew, have the right to extend preferential treatment to high-roller guests at the expense of "lesser" passengers.
3. There is a hierarchy of nationalities on a Mediterranean cruise, and those of us who dwell on the North American continent are somewhere near, if not at, the bottom.
4. We as consumers have the right to choose the vacation we consider to be the most relaxing, entertaining, and appropriate for us in the circumstances. Accordingly, you will find me on a ship sailing from a U. S. port to a tropical destination. If you find me in the Mediterranean, you will know that I am dead and they put my body on tour.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeythyme
1. The captain has the right to throw you off the ship for any or no reason. 2. The captain, and by extension the crew, have the right to extend preferential treatment to high-roller guests at the expense of "lesser" passengers.
3. There is a hierarchy of nationalities on a Mediterranean cruise, and those of us who dwell on the North American continent are somewhere near, if not at, the bottom.
4. We as consumers have the right to choose the vacation we consider to be the most relaxing, entertaining, and appropriate for us in the circumstances. Accordingly, you will find me on a ship sailing from a U. S. port to a tropical destination. If you find me in the Mediterranean, you will know that I am dead and they put my body on tour.
You know I hate to admit it, but I think that perhaps you have a better grasp of the crux of this issue than any of us. This so called "hierarchy of nationalities on a Mediterranean cruise" does exist, and I have seen it myself first hand, but was never able to articulate it as eloquently. Bang! the nail has been hit right on the head.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 07:29 AM
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Interesting story, interesting thread. I would like to hear the "rest of the story."
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Old August 29th, 2009, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenie weenie
You know I hate to admit it, but I think that perhaps you have a better grasp of the crux of this issue than any of us. This so called "hierarchy of nationalities on a Mediterranean cruise" does exist, and I have seen it myself first hand, but was never able to articulate it as eloquently. Bang! the nail has been hit right on the head.
Upon further reflection, I would also concede that it exists in any multinational environment, but I do not notice it in the Western hemisphere, because my nationality ranks higher here, and I take it for granted. I should also clarify my first item regarding the captain's authority to say I believe that is as it should be, or must be actually. As a consumer, I would rather know who is in charge and be able to research that person's record than to be at the mercy of a randomly selected democracy. After all, it has been said that democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 01:27 PM
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Well, ToddDH, maybe the other passenger was put off of the ship. We don't really know because the story didn't give us all the facts from all points of view; therefore, we can't conclude that Celebrity treated a passenger unfairly or was showing 'favor to a high roller' as one reply suggested.
What we should learn from this story is that when you are on a cruise the Captain is in chrge at all times.
So, fellow cruisers, let's treat our fellow passengers the way we would like to be treated.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 04:27 PM
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First of all, I don't mind if anyone "slams" me. I don't take it that way. It is just commenting on what I worte, not me personally.

I did contact Celebrity and ask for a comment, but they did not get back to m with one. This is actually kind of typical when they don't want to get embroiled in a controversy. I can't force them to comment.

The way I see, the over-riding factor here is the money someone paid for this trip. Granted, Dean broke a rule and contractually can be asked to leave the ship by the captain for any reason.

However, I still like to THINK that companies are more concerned about giving every customer value for what they paid.

Here is food for thought. A lot of people want the cruise lines to be responsible if someone over-imbibes, and if that drinking results in some kind of harm then the cruise line is somewhat responsible for what happened.

Does the cruiseline responsibility end just because the person harmed is the same person they must discipline. In other words. doesn't the cruise bear some responsibility for having overserved Dean? He never would have lost control if someone had realized he was intoxicated.

Furthermore, maybe they didn't know nefore the fact, but they knew after the fact. So, at the point would isolating him been a the right choice and then re-evaluating him as a person once he was sober?

ALSO -
The idea of a hierarchy of nationalities the Med never occured to me, but I don't exactly like or agree with the concept that means anyone, including the captain has the right to decide someone must leave the ship at anytime. I don't really care who is who in Europe, this is a US-based company with English as the primary language onboard. I don't really see this as a Mediterranean environment.

Now, if we were talking about the crew, or a Euroopean cruise line like MSC or Costa that woul be different.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 07:55 PM
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Paul, pleassse say you aren't serious. I can't imagine anyone who has paid several thousand dollars for a cruise to be happy when a crew member says, "Sorry sir, I can't serve you anymore cocktailas because you've had too much to drink and you are making a fool of yourself, so please return to your stateroom immediately."

I've been on 37 cruises, including several to the Med. and have never seen a passenger hierarchy other than those receiving 'perks' for being frequent cruisers, which is open to everyone.

People please step-up and take responsiblity for your actions. Adults should behave as adults, not as spoiled teenagers blaming everyone else and not accepting the consequences of their actions.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 09:09 PM
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Seacookie,

You're absolutely right. We don't have all the facts from all sides and it appears from what Paul has ascertained, Celebrity will insure that we remain in the dark at least as regards the opposite side of this coin. Pardon me, but in my former line of work, that always made me kinda' suspect of that side in if not like, at least similar instances.

Anyway, because I don't have all that much experience cruising, I'm left to the most experienced among us I know when it comes to both cruising and overall knowledge of the industry, to broaden my own knowledge in this area.

Todd
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Old August 29th, 2009, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddDH
Seacookie,

You're absolutely right. We don't have all the facts from all sides and it appears from what Paul has ascertained, Celebrity will insure that we remain in the dark at least as regards the opposite side of this coin. Pardon me, but in my former line of work, that always made me kinda' suspect of that side in if not like, at least similar instances. Todd
Don't know what your line of work was, but I was an auditor for most of my working days, and I share your viewpoint. And, by seeing that the facts never come to light, Celebrity has assured themselves that they will never be bothered with my cheapskate tush on one of their zero-for-some ships. Why is pounding the table yelling OK if they really have a zero-tolerance policy?
What's the chance of getting an interview with some of the witnesses?
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Old August 30th, 2009, 03:46 PM
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I got the story directly from Dean, the person who was asked to leave. I grilled him for details and he admits he went overboard after he was grabbed by the casino staff. he sweared at the pitboss, which is apparently what Celebrity was most upset about.

He didnt threathen him, he said something about them catering (kissing tush? I don't know) to rich Russians while he was a "nobody?"

I am just being devil's advocate here, saying that if a cruise line ever bears responsibility for someone overimbibing then they should in Dean's case as well. Dean actually pointed out how much alcohol had been served that embarkation night.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 04:55 PM
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flight attendants are trained to notice when a passenger has too much alcohol and to cut them off
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Old August 30th, 2009, 05:57 PM
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Venice,

Bartenders are as well. I know of a young lady who was tending bar at an upscale establishment in New Jersey who lost her job because of that. Thing is, the particular customer really wasn't obviously intoxicated but unknown to her, she was being "checked" and because she was busy and missed a couple of the signs of intoxication, she was canned. She didn't complain though. Said it was her fault and she should have known better. Oh, it was the first offense too. At that establishment I guess they didn't have second chances.

Todd
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Old August 30th, 2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
I got the story directly from Dean, the person who was asked to leave. I grilled him for details and he admits he went overboard after he was grabbed by the casino staff. he sweared at the pitboss, which is apparently what Celebrity was most upset about.

He didnt threathen him, he said something about them catering (kissing tush? I don't know) to rich Russians while he was a "nobody?"

I am just being devil's advocate here, saying that if a cruise line ever bears responsibility for someone overimbibing then they should in Dean's case as well. Dean actually pointed out how much alcohol had been served that embarkation night.
What language did he swear in?
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Old August 30th, 2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seacookie
Paul, pleassse say you aren't serious. I can't imagine anyone who has paid several thousand dollars for a cruise to be happy when a crew member says, "Sorry sir, I can't serve you anymore cocktailas because you've had too much to drink and you are making a fool of yourself, so please return to your stateroom immediately."
I have seen [and heard] it done by bartenders on both Royal Caribbean and Carnival. Of course they don't put it as bluntly as your post implies, but they do it. They are professionals and they know how to do it tactfully.
In a similar vein, if Celebrity had a professional bouncer on Solstice, nobody would have ever know that Mr. Laderoute was being ejected from the casino. It would have looked more like two old friends leaving together. A bouncer never uses force when tact will do.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seacookie
Paul, pleassse say you aren't serious. I can't imagine anyone who has paid several thousand dollars for a cruise to be happy when a crew member says, "Sorry sir, I can't serve you anymore cocktailas because you've had too much to drink and you are making a fool of yourself, so please return to your stateroom immediately."

I've been on 37 cruises, including several to the Med. and have never seen a passenger hierarchy other than those receiving 'perks' for being frequent cruisers, which is open to everyone.

People please step-up and take responsiblity for your actions. Adults should behave as adults, not as spoiled teenagers blaming everyone else and not accepting the consequences of their actions.
One other thing. I did not mean to imply that they post a list of nationalities and their rankings. What I did mean is that the Med area is multicultural, and those culture have many centuries more history than our own. Consult your local social science professor for more details.
As to taking responsibility, read Paul's report again. Mr. Laderoute has taken full responsibility for his actions. Celebrity are the ones who are refusing to talk about it.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 07:52 PM
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Not wishing to comment on the incident does not make Celebrity the party in the wrong. I have chosen the "no comment" line myself and been branded as the bad guy for doing so. "No comment" is just that and nothing more. I thought Paul's report was fair to both parties. He admits that he has only gotten one side of the story.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apiper
Not wishing to comment on the incident does not make Celebrity the party in the wrong. I have chosen the "no comment" line myself and been branded as the bad guy for doing so. "No comment" is just that and nothing more. I thought Paul's report was fair to both parties. He admits that he has only gotten one side of the story.
You are absolutely right, and I have taken the "no comment" position at times too, but I didn't have a product to sell in a tight market that could be made tighter by my intransigence.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 10:35 PM
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Monkeythyme,

Relative to my former profession. Law enforcement and academy police instructor (primarily firearms ands legals).

Todd
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Old August 30th, 2009, 11:34 PM
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FWIW: It is nt uncommon for a cruise line PR person to just drop the ball and forget to follow up. I will ask them again.

Dean tells me the Russian did stay on board for the entire cruise. Dean's family was on the ship the entire cruise as well and they saw him around the ship.
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