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  #31 (permalink)  
Old January 20th, 2010, 09:51 AM
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This is a link to recent earthquake. Look at the amount of aftershocks in Haiti. I wouldn't want to cruise near the site of the earthquake right now. I stopped counting after 20 aftershocks all in the 4 to 5 point range.

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Old January 20th, 2010, 10:43 AM
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Labadee is 100 miles from the epicenter of the quake. Haiti is half of Espanola, the second largest island in the Caribbean, and is not a "small" Caribbean nation. It is twice the size of Jamaica and three times the size of Puerto Rico. I think many people envision that the entire nation is in ruins. It isn't. As Katlady pointed out that thirty to fifty miles away from a 7 earthquake there will be little or no physical damage.

I think people have a vision that just outside of the gates to Labadee is a scene of mass destruction and ruin. There isn't.

Island nations like this have their own sub-economy based on geographical areas. To stop going to Labadee would be the equivalent of not going to Oklahoma City after Katrina. While the distances are greater the socioeconomic and geographical relevance is similar.

It is great that we give though our hearts but we also have to think with our heads.

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Old January 20th, 2010, 10:52 AM
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I finally took a moment to read this thread. Those of you who know me, know I have a great deal of concern for the nation of Haiti, and talk daily with my friend who is a missionary - in the epicenter of the quake.
Today another significant shaking went on - but the after shocks are daily, and steady, some quite scary. I don't know if the earth is done there, or how safe it is to be there really.
I understand the economic diaster. Like many this is an issue that can be debated from both sides.
I can only speak on what I would do if I were on a ship that were to dock and transport passengers to this part of the world right now.
The first thing I would do is find a way to give. If I did go ashore, it would only be to actually be on the soil of that nation, and pray, I would not make a spectacle of myself, but quietly lift my inner voice up to God.
I am sure there would be tears.
Three people from my town are gone, missing, where they were supposed to be is totally destroyed. The husband/father - devasted. He has come home, his father, and brother - a dentist and a nurse, have gone, bringing medical supplies, and whatever help they can, while they look and try to find some spark of hope.
My friend a missionary, has lost everything.
The people they help are desperate.
I will do all I can to help these people.
I feel horrible even to go on the cruise I have planned. My heart is broken for these people.
I will go, I will have the best time I can. I am thankful this is not a stop, then again, I would love to go ashore, to pray.

In my own opinion I couldn't go ashore and relax and play. But that is my nature - if others can, I can not judge them. Just as I as that no one judge me for the way I would spend my day there - everyone is different.
All I can do is ask that everyone do something, anything.
Find a charitable organization that by-passes the government.
We can all see that money that goes to those in charge does not benefit the people. It sickens me. I just don't know how hard the human heart must be to treat people so much lower than ones self. I just hope I never reach such a point. Maybe I feel too much, give to much, care to much - but I would rather be over extended that way, than to have a heart hardened like those that suck the nation dry.
Sorry, I will step off the soapbox now, and go and do something productive to acutally help this nation, and my friend.
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Old January 20th, 2010, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougR. View Post
Aerogirl, part 2 of this message does not logically follow part 1. Should the Hatian man's quote be: absolutely they should not stop?
Your correct the quote should read " they should not stop visiting Labadee"
The next line say’s “ The last thing we need is more financial hardship” I took it as the cruise line should continue to visit the port. I was just quoting what I read.
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Old January 20th, 2010, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by thecruisequeen View Post
Doug the aid and money can still get to Labadee if Cruisers are there or not. The workers should get income if cruiser are there or not too.
The major problem with your proposal is that besides the RCI employees who are paid, there are those in the straw market that are not paid RCI employees and rely on the income from what they sell or provide. If the ships stop coming even for two weeks, they get nothing during that period.

Remember also that Ladabee is 100 miles from Port-a-Prince, or approximately the distance we live from each other. Some people have gotten the impression that the entire country is in ruins.

While I realize that the aid money collected onboard can get there by other means and that the ship could make a middle of the night port call to drop off aid materials carried on board, the straw market vendors would still suffer.

If the thought of having a relaxing beach day on Ladabee stirs one's conscience, do what VTJen said she would do, stand on Hatian soil and pray for the land and its people. After that go to the straw market and go easy on the haggling. Buy some stuff you wouldn't ordinarily dream of getting caught dead with.

God bless the people of Hati!
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Old January 20th, 2010, 11:49 AM
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Maybe I am wrong but I feel that there was something very disturbing about seeing videos of passengers sipping their Mai Tai's on a beach in Haiti with an RCL ship in the background. With so much death and destruction only 100 miles away, I just don't think it was a good decision by RCL. I realize that the local vendors need the money that these cruise ships bring, but showing respect, at this very difficult time, for the people of Haiti should be more important.

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Old January 20th, 2010, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Nurse Debra View Post
Maybe I am wrong but I feel that there was something very disturbing about seeing videos of passengers sipping their Mai Tai's on a beach in Haiti with an RCL ship in the background. With so much death and destruction only 100 miles away, I just don't think it was a good decision by RCL. I realize that the local vendors need the money that these cruise ships bring, but showing respect, at this very difficult time, for the people of Haiti should be more important.

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Old January 20th, 2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Debra View Post
Maybe I am wrong but I feel that there was something very disturbing about seeing videos of passengers sipping their Mai Tai's on a beach in Haiti with an RCL ship in the background. With so much death and destruction only 100 miles away, I just don't think it was a good decision by RCL. I realize that the local vendors need the money that these cruise ships bring, but showing respect, at this very difficult time, the people of Haiti should be more important.

Debra
Is it better that they are sipping those Mai Tais on the ship 100 miles away, or at another port of call?

CQ suggested RCI should just pay everyone for not working. Well RCI is donating all the proceeds during their stops to Haitian relief, as well as the supplies and the 1 million dollar donation, as well as encouraging passengers to donate while on the ship.

I don't see how the passengers should feel less guilty staying on the ship, and enjoying the food and drinks. Following that thought process those who care shouldn't be enjoying anything, and taking the cost of their cruise, or entertainment $$ those at home spend, and donate all of it to Haiti.

There is no RIGHT or wrong in these situations, but to fault RCI, or expect the "deep pockets" to do more for Haiti, isn't right either.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old January 20th, 2010, 12:49 PM
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100 miles okay I have to explain about the news media and earthquakes. Loma Prieta moment magnitude of 6.9 and a surface wave magnitude of 7.1. During Loma Prieta a lot of miss information was floating around. Some of the things reported were: The Golden Gate bridge collasped, The entire Bay Bridge collasped, and all of northern california was on fire. The fact is the Cypress Structure collasped killing 42 people, span of the top deck of the San Francisco Bay Bridge collapsed. The span fell at an angle blocking the lower deck. One car drove off the edge of the gap, crashing onto the lower deck and killing the driver. That video was played on the news media and it gives me the chills everytime I see it. 100 miles away in Sacramento the quake was not felt at all and did no damage.

The news media would have you believe that people are coming to work while their family is trapped alive under a building. I don't think this is the case. The people of Labadee are dependent on the money crusing brings in. I'm going back to my orignial statment RCI is bring relief supply and income. I believe that a fundraiser on at Labadee to help the earthquake victims is the best solution. I don't think that RCI pulling out of Labadee will help anyone and will hurt the people of Haiti.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old January 20th, 2010, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kuki View Post
Is it better that they are sipping those Mai Tais on the ship 100 miles away, or at another port of call?

CQ suggested RCI should just pay everyone for not working. Well RCI is donating all the proceeds during their stops to Haitian relief, as well as the supplies and the 1 million dollar donation, as well as encouraging passengers to donate while on the ship.

I don't see how the passengers should feel less guilty staying on the ship, and enjoying the food and drinks. Following that thought process those who care shouldn't be enjoying anything, and taking the cost of their cruise, or entertainment $$ those at home spend, and donate all of it to Haiti.

There is no RIGHT or wrong in these situations, but to fault RCI, or expect the "deep pockets" to do more for Haiti, isn't right either.
I agree and still believe we should be going to Haiti. In terms of an earthquake, 100 miles can be quite far. I would definitely spend a lot more and buy things from the locals I normally wouldn't if I was going though becuase of the situation and donate some money while on the ship.

After 9/11, people were still vacationing in upstate NY, and in other parts of the US. After Katrina, people still went to Disney in Florida. Sure everyone was compassionate, felt sadness towards everyone living in the area, sent prayers, donated what they could, etc... but they also went on with their lives.

How many times have one of us passed a homeless person on the way home from work. Maybe we gave him a few bucks or a sandwich, but we still drove home, ate a hot meal, watched tv in our warm house on a large flat screen tv and slept in a warm bed.

Is it wrong that we might over indulge every night compared to others living in our towns/city? Should we feel guilty all the time or just during a natural disaster?

Would it have been better if RCI just stopped going for a week? A month? A year? What would a good timeframe be since the rebuilding is going to take years.

Like many said, there is no right or wrong answers.
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Old January 20th, 2010, 02:51 PM
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It’s a double edge sword. I see both sides. The people in Labadee depend on the money that the tourist bring. For these people it will only make matters worse by not going there and spending money. They depend on it to survive. On the other side it seems insensitive to have a great time in a country when we see what it’s going through . The man from Labadee said the people of Labadee want the ships there and need the money despite what going on 100 miles away. It’s a matter of dealing with what’s in your heart and your head.
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Old January 20th, 2010, 03:26 PM
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Cape Haitian is the location of Labadee. (Royal Carribean's private beach and dock.)

It is no where near Port Au Prince. You can use Katlady's map as a reference.



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Old January 20th, 2010, 03:45 PM
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Ok, so let's look at this a little differently. Say you are the cruiser on the RCI ship scheduled to make a stop in Labadee, Haiti this week. On the one hand if your ship does stop, RCI brings vital relief supplies, money is donated to relief funds, locals continue to keep jobs and income and Haiti receives much needed revenue from the cruise ship stops, but you the cruiser feels bad about having a drink while sitting on the beach.

On the other hand, the ship doesn't make the stop in Labadee. Supplies don't get delivered, locals go unpaid as they cannot sell their wares to the tourist and Haiti loses much needed funds. However, you the cruiser are still on a cruise ship having a drink, but somehow you feel much better now because you showed some respect for Haiti by not stopping?

Seems kind of convoluted to me. I don't speak for the people of Haiti, but something tells me they would rather have the supplies, jobs and funds then a cruiser's show of respect.
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Old January 20th, 2010, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by blueliner View Post
Seems kind of convoluted to me. I don't speak for the people of Haiti, but something tells me they would rather have the supplies, jobs and funds then a cruiser's show of respect.
Well said: A lot of this has more to do with emotion than logic. In this instance I believe the show of respect does much more for the person who is giving it than the people who they are giving it to. A little self serving from my point of view.

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Old January 20th, 2010, 06:42 PM
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I think that’s how it is for a lot of people. Emotion hits before logic especially when it’s something as big as this. I for one was against the ships going to port, but then after reading and listening to others point of views I do see how the people in Labadee would be greatly affected by not visiting their port and this wouldn’t be good for the people.
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Old January 20th, 2010, 06:55 PM
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Kat..I was living in Oakland at the time of the earthquake (and in fact was at candlestick park at the world series)..you are correct about the actual damage..it stopped two blocks from my favorite eating place in the whole wide world..the gingerbread house (who's founder is from new orleans)
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Old January 20th, 2010, 09:01 PM
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Cruisers should still stop in Labadee and treat people there with kindness and respect.
To deprive those who make a living there of a way to feed their families wuold be an injustice.

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Old January 20th, 2010, 09:03 PM
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Kat..I was living in Oakland at the time of the earthquake (and in fact was at candlestick park at the world series)..you are correct about the actual damage..it stopped two blocks from my favorite eating place in the whole wide world..the gingerbread house (who's founder is from new orleans)
I was cutting hair in Hayward the quake was centered in Santa Cruz and did most of it's damage in Oakland. My dad works road construction and would avoid the Cypress Structure because he know it wasn't well constructed. It's a shame the structure wasn't fixed. I think we were very lucky the bay area world series was happened that year. Most people were off the freeway. The lost of life would have been much higher. For those who don't know the cypress structure was part of the 580 freeway the upper deck collapsed on the lower deck killing and trapping people inside.
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Old January 20th, 2010, 10:06 PM
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Maybe one point being overlooked by a lot of folks is that for years, not just since the earthquake, there has been misery, political unrest, grinding poverty, corruption, etc. out the yazoo in Haiti, making it the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere of the world--- but yet--
how many people over the years have visited Labadee on ships, had their day of fun in the sun, drank their frozen thingees, haggled the heck out of the vendors trying to get them down to a next to nothing price for some item or other, and never gave it a second thought, except to criticize how pushy the local vendors were for trying to make a buck to help feed their starving family. I've even seen people criticize the guys who work the beaches fetching and setting up chairs because they expected and needed a dollar tip for their work. Would it actually hurt you to tip a buck?
No soft hearts then-- now since the quake, as someone has pointed out, we suddenly feel so sorry that we should, out of respect and sorrow for these poor people, drop the port --as someone said-- "til things get back to normal "-- if things were back like it was a few days, a few weeks, a few months or years, there would still be starving people, little order, little medical care and we would stop and visit, ride the zip line, sunburn ourselves and gorge on food and drink our frozen thingees and not think anything about the thousands living in a week on what we would waste in a day on the ship.
I mentioned this the last time I visited Labadee, last year. A few Haitian officials came aboard and we were in the buffet eating lunch. There were 3-4 of them who came through the buffet, had plates piled to the brim with food and had small bags with fruit, bread, etc, to take ashore , probably for their families. I felt so sorry for these guys but at least by the ship being there they were getting all they could eat, at least for once in a week or so.
It's great that people have and show some compassion for their fellow man when something like a quake hits but shouldn't we have compassion and feeling all the time--not just when a tragedy happens?
Ok, so we stay away from Haiti for a few weeks. But we sit on the ship, gorge ourselves on all manner of food, drink our fill of everything from water to wine, lose money in the casino and bingo, and tell each other how sad we are about the poor Haitians.But, as soon as our ship docks at Cozumel, Grand Cayman or Jamaica, we forget the poor Haitians, take our tours, spend our money and don't feel guilty as were not " there "- at Haiti
so we don't feel guilty.
Just my opinion.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 07:26 AM
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Even if Labadee was missed nobody should have been deprived. Money, supplies and income for the workers could have still been paid.

Yes Haiti is very poor and always was yet we vacation in Labadee. There is poor and sick all around us right here in the U.S. Do we go upon our lives and vacation and do the thing we want to do yes.

Guilt I don't think is the right word. I don't feel Guilty I did not cause the quake and I sure don't wish that upon anyone. People pay their respects to the dead, dying and sick in different ways. What is right for one person may not be right for the next.

So is it self serving to skip Labadee at least unitl they finish with rescuing people trapped in rubble? (but still send money, aid and pay the workers)

Or is it Heartless to be partying only 100 miles away from devastation where people are still trapped waiting to be rescued?

There is no right or wrong answer. We are all going to have different views on this one.

And yes we can all go to Labadee buy something there tip a few people but there are also millions right outside of Labadee that need money too. Donate, Donate, Donate whatever you can to the right organization.

When Katrina happened there were a bunch of young adults going door to door pretending to be from a relief organization they collected thousands of dollars and went to Cancun with the money. I'm sure we have all heard stories like this.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 10:58 AM
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Even if Labadee was missed nobody should have been deprived. Money, supplies and income for the workers could have still been paid.
By who? Royal Caribbean, the passengers ?

It's going to take years (if ever) for Haiti to recover from this earthquake and its devastation. When is the correct time to return, when all the dead are buried, and all the buildings are rebuilt? Even then the lives destroyed, and the losses of the families are still going to be devastated.

Sorry, I just don't see how it's OK to party if the ship is 100 miles off the coast of Haiti, but it's not OK to visit. I doubt anyone stopping at Labadee now would be celebrating, but nor should they hang their head in shame.

Post Katrina New Orleans encouraged people to visit. They needed people to visit, so their economy wouldn't die as well. Today, years later, there's still plenty of rebuilding work to do there, yet they want people partying in the French Quarter. And no one is telling people they should stay away.

I certainly do agree that donating what one can afford to this disaster is a good thing. Telling others, whether RCI or passengers what it is their responsibility to donate is not.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 07:07 PM
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Kuki makes an interesting point..Fat Tuesday is 02.16..New Orleans has a large Haitian population and it should be noted that there is a strong feeling that we should give as much of our $$$ and time to help them because we understand when something like this happens

however, we still plan on celebrating but plan on doing alot of fundraising for Haiti
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Are they stopping ALL ships out of New Orleans?? cherylroy Carnival Cruise Lines 15 March 2nd, 2007 10:55 AM


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