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  #31 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2010, 01:44 AM
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"I know lots of people who have only modest amounts of money who have lots of respect and standing -- with everyone. And I know some very wealthy people who have neither."

That is probably the biggest fallacy I have ever heard. Name one I've heard of, with even marginal staying power. I make an excellent litmus test for your claim.

There is a glass ceiling for those who are simply "nice", or "charitable", or "popular"... and it's pretty darn low. National celebrity brings with it media exposure, which brings speaking engagements, endorsements and the like... (and managers and publicists and lawyers) I don't know anybody who turns those down, and stays in the spotlight for long. And I don't know of anyone who turns down the related paycheque....

One need look no further than Bernard Madoff as my example of just how badly you are wrong. It doesn't matter WHOSE money you have, as long as you have lots of it. He was erstwhile best buds with pretty much everybody of note.

America likes a good story, but it also has an extremely short attention span, often measured in days. (Not picking on the USA... this is true for every country, but you're just the best at it.)

Last edited by Captain Tennille; March 13th, 2010 at 01:51 AM.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2010, 01:08 PM
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I think this discussion is very interesting, so let me toss in my personal two cents and rip it apart if you feel like it.

First of all, the dress code on cruise ships evolved from the days of Ocean Liners when they had a "class system". The steerage class didnt have formal nights, but then again the first class passengers didn't have dice games and bingo, either.

Modern cruise lines used "dress codes" as a marketing gimmick. It appealed to their clientele back when cruisers were mostly seniors from the days when dressing up was far more common and considered a fun thing to do.

These days drssing up is not considered to be so fun for a lot of people, and I believe whether you dress up or not on a cruise has nothing to do with the your social standing or respect for your host. A cruise is a vacation and as such one should be allowed to dress however they want. Formal nights are now for the people who enjoy formal nights, and if you don't then thank goodness they are no longer obligatory.

Wealth no longer nothing to do with social standing, look at Fifty Cents, Snoop Dog, Linda Kardashian or Bill Mahr. Hugh Hefner has wealth and social standing and he wears a bathrobe to parties. In my book social standing has more to do with what you contribute to society, not how you dress.

Look at Bill Gates, he often appears like a slob, but he is wealthy and has contributed more to the world than I will ever be able to dream of doing.

Formal dress is only about one thing, liking to dress up. I think it is great that some people enjoy it (I don't personally). It does make sense that if you plan to attend an event that requires formal dress that you conform to the code. That is courtesy to your host.

BUT - I don't think a cruise ship really has a "host" so to speak except that someone mentioned your peers. That makes sense. If you are traveling with friends or family who think formal wear is important then you are being polite by going along. You can choose to flaunt that if you want, if you truly don't care what they think. But for the most part I believe it is polite to comform to your peers if they enjoy dressing up.

I also agree with Mike that it is polite to go along with the dress code of the cruise line if you know they really mean "formal" when they say it. These days that is really just a few cruise lines: Crystal, Cunard. The rest of the lines have a mixed bag so formal is never really mandatory.

I bought a tux to go on Crystal and we had one tablemate who was a single man and a snob. He obviously judged people by how wealthy they are. He was on me nightly, challenging my status as a "cruise expert." He was obviously just jealous of me, that I was on his cruise line but didn't have his kind of money. He went so far as to say he only cruises on Crystal because it has the kind of people he feels are his equal (rich).

Ironically, our table was comprised of me, my wife and five other people who worked on the ship as enrichment people (computers experts, a pianist and wife, and the music teacher for piano lessons onboard). None of those people were rich, and neither am I. But that is the table he picked and he bored all of us silly nightly. The others told me I did a great job of handling his challenges politely without being offended that he was obviously trying to rattle me.

And he was displaying to all of us that all of his wealth didn't amount to a hill of beans in the respect department. Respect is like love - it is something someone gives to you because they feel you deserve it, but the moment you demand it, you lose your entitlement to it.

Bottom line - to me dressing up is about one thing only - enjoying dressing up: You know and like the tradition of it. I am fine with that. Enjoy.

But if you are a person who thinks wearing formal wear shows your social standing and indicates you are deserving of respect, then I say "I am not impressed." If you are like that guy, you are very shallow and insecure and use emblems you can buy rather than your true personality to garner social standing, and that is kind of sad.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2010, 01:35 PM
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Paul (and Others)...

There is one problem with respecting the dress code to this day...
There is no lobster, or decent steak, or dare I say comparable food in the alternate dining options on even the biggest and newest of ships. (Carnival Freedom springs to mind)

My young son was acting up, so we ate alternate almost EVERY day for two weeks on the Freedom, out of respect for our fellow diners. (Don't you dare say I don't have respect for my fellow passengers) Trust me when I say it sucked compared to the main dining room. The offerings were no better on Formal nights.... (I had burgers pretty much every day.)

If you want decent food, you still have to go to the main dining room or paid alternate restaurants, and that means dress code, or choosing to ignore it.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2010, 02:19 PM
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Captain...

You have a good point - in the sense that they are discriminating against people who can't dine in the dining room when they don't serve equally palatable food in alternative places.

But you just said you couldn't go in the dining room because of your son. You didn't say you couldn't go because of the dress code. As far as I know, Carnival now allows jeans and t-shirts in the dining room anytime. Dress codes are just suggestions.

That reiterates what I said - one can dress how one pleases and choose to ignore how other people view them. That is fully one's right. One could go to the grocery store in their pajamas (a lot of people do) as well.

It does say that as far as dress goes they don't really care how how others view them. It doesn't say they don't respect others. It just means they respect their own right not to have to conform more.

I can accept that even if I don't like it personally. I don't care for tattoos or mullet haircuts either. I don't like people who swear a lot. There are a lot of things I don't like, but I still have to respect the right of other people to be who they choose to be. A lot of people use their dress to make a statement. A biker must wear his leather, a musician must have a "cool" haircut.

If I get upset by what another person does that is my choice. Never would I ask a stranger to change who they are for my personal benefit.

I will say I think it shows a lot more class when people do make an effort not to offend other people. I pull on my nice clothes to go to dinner on formal nights because I choose not to offend the sensibility of others. I also have a wife who prefers that I look nice rather than sloppy.

I also try to take a shower and shave every day (I work at home and it is very easy to be a slob when you do that).

It is all a matter of what level a person feels it is important to conform to "society." There are generational and regional diferences.

It is a bit hypocritical to respect a Scotman's right to wear a kilt to dinner, but if a Boy George fan showed up in a dress the house would probably come down. If a rabbi shows up with a long beard and hair we would accept it, but if a biker does the same we might have names for him. If a marine has a tattoo that's acceptable, but if a young lady has one its a "tramp stamp."

Bottom line, we live in a free society and there are differences in people we have to respect. Because not to respect all diversity leads to people picking and choosing for others what they deem acceptable, and the next step there is a form of prejudice.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2010, 06:05 AM
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There seems to be some confusion about the status of an ocean linerís commanding officer. There are some passengers who believe that the commanding officer "is there for my benefit."

This issue seems to need clarification.

United States Navy regulations specify that any commissioned ship, surface or subsurface, in the service of the United States Navy is under the command of the commanding officer. There are no exceptions to these regulations. And while an admiral aboard may be in command of the division, squadron or battle group, the commanding officer is in command of his ship.

On occasion, a shipís commanding officer (usually a Captain (O6 grade)), will be designated as Tactical Officer in Command. My family has direct experience with this. At the Battle of Savo Island, 9 August 1942, United States Navy Fleet Captain, Howard D. Bode, commanding officer, United States Navy heavy cruiser USS Chicago CA 29, was officer in tactical command of the Southern Group, the Chicago Group. The Southern Group consisted of Australian Navy heavy cruisers HMAS Australia and HMAS Canberra, United States Navy heavy cruiser USS Chicago CA 29, United States Navy destroyers, USS Patterson DD 392, and USS Bagley DD 386. As officer in tactical command, Captain Howard D. Bode was directly responsible for the loss of HMAS Canberra at Savo Island. Relieved of command, and stationed at a desk job in Panama City, Panama, United States Fleet Captain Howard D. Bode shot himself to death 19 April 1943.

17 January 1950, United States Navy battleship, USS Missouri BB 63 ran aground near Hampton Roads, Virginia. It took over two weeks to refloat the behemoth. After extensive effort, she was refloated 1 February 1950. As a result, USS Missouri BB 63ís commanding officer was relieved of command.

17 May 1987, United States Navy frigate, USS Stark FFG 31, patrolling in the Persian Gulf was nearly destroyed by 2 Iraqi Exocet anti-ship missiles. As a result, commanding officer, Captain Glenn R. Brindell was relieved of command and recommended for Court Martial. Captain Brindell was later forced into early retirement.

12 October 2000, United States Navy destroyer, USS Cole DDG 67, refueling in Yemen, was attacked by Al Qaeda operatives, killing 17 sailors, injuring 39. On 19 January 2001, The United States Navy completed and released its Judge Advocate General (JAGMAN) investigation of the incident, concluding that USS Cole DDG 67ís commanding officer Commander Kirk Lippold "acted reasonably in adjusting his force protection posture based on his assessment of the situation that presented itself" when USS Cole DDG 67 arrived in Aden to refuel. The JAGMAN also concluded that "the commanding officer of USS Cole DDG 67 did not have the specific intelligence, focused training, appropriate equipment or on-scene security support to effectively prevent or deter such a determined, preplanned assault on his ship" and recommended significant changes in Navy procedures. In spite of this finding, Commander Lippold was subsequently denied promotion and retired at the same rank of commander in 2007.

The commanding officer is ultimately responsible for his ship, and the lives and actions of his crew.

As such, the commanding officer has ultimate authority over his ship and its operation. As master of his vessel, the commanding officer is authorized to command his ship while at sea, regardless of home office directives. This authority is bestowed by maritime tradition and international maritime law.

And as such persons aboard are subject to the commanding officerís authority whether they are paying passengers or not.

As master of his vessel and host, the commanding officer may expect a standard of dress in the dining room for any or all evenings. This standard is not negotiable by passengers or crew. Passengers arriving at the dining room in other than appropriate attire may be barred from entry by authority of the commanding officer.

The commanding officer has ultimate authority over his vessel, not the passengers. Some passengers believe that the commanding officer "works for me." That is not the case. Passengers sail under the authority of the commanding officer. Any passenger not convinced of this may contradict the commanding officerís authority at his or her peril.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2010, 02:12 PM
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same applies to the Captain on a commercial airliner
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Old March 14th, 2010, 07:57 PM
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My taxes still pay a cop's salary. And Obama's. They serve me. Someone has to make the decisions and be responsible. Doctors may think they are "hospital Gods"... but are ultimately accountable to me, and others like me.

Without my cruise fare there is no Master of the Vessel.

Sorry, dude, semantics cannot cloud the fact that HE DOES WORK FOR ME, and I can hold him accountable. It doesn't mean he hasn't been granted authority... that's an entirely different matter. That authority comes with accountability... to me.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2010, 08:03 PM
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I wonder if the taxi driver is the host of my cab?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2010, 02:02 AM
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in terms of accountability (hire/fire/salary) the ship's captain works for the owners (or stockholders) of the cruiseline..so unless you are the majority stockholder there is not a whole lot you can do, as long as the captain abides by the regulations of his profession and his contract...the Captain can put you off the ship, you can't put the Captain off the ship

POTUS (or any elected official) is a different story, it's called an election every so often
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2010, 03:17 AM
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No but if the Captain doesn't do his job properly, I can have his employers put him off the ship and into the unemployment line.... I doubt there has never been such a case. In fact, in BC Canada recently, inattentive bridge officers ran a ferry with hundreds of passengers aboard aground. Two people drowned below decks. I believe ALL the bridge officers were fired, starting with the Master, even though he was asleep at the time. He didn't break his contract, but he was ultimately responsible all the same.

If a policeman arrests me unjustly, I can have him suspended, even fired.

Anyone can abuse their authority, but there are always consequences. Nixon springs to mind.

However, I fail to see what this has to do with the Captain's role as "host", and whether I'm causing an affront to a "cruise line employee" by breaking the dress code... I maintain the Captain works for me, as does the policeman and the President. Others here contend that the Captain is somehow "more" than a cruise line employee; that he has social standing. I personally fail to see the mystique.

Last edited by Captain Tennille; March 15th, 2010 at 03:23 AM.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2010, 11:10 AM
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well, you can request his/her employer discharge him under the threat of a lawsuit (you always sue the corporation, not the individual who works on behalf of the corporation, because of the deeper pockets and the by product if the corporation loses or the settlement is huge, is usually termination)

but I digress (and how did this get so far off topic)

at the end of a great cruising day when you are on deck sailing out of port at sunset with the drink of the day in one hand and holding the love of your life, in the other hand..who gives a rat's behind how you or anyone else is going to dress for dinner, certainly not the Captain who has far more important things to worry about
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old March 16th, 2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice View Post
well, you can request his/her employer discharge him under the threat of a lawsuit (you always sue the corporation, not the individual who works on behalf of the corporation, because of the deeper pockets and the by product if the corporation loses or the settlement is huge, is usually termination)

but I digress (and how did this get so far off topic)

at the end of a great cruising day when you are on deck sailing out of port at sunset with the drink of the day in one hand and holding the love of your life, in the other hand..who gives a rat's behind how you or anyone else is going to dress for dinner, certainly not the Captain who has far more important things to worry about
AMEN!!! As long as I am on a cruise ship, I really don't look at how anyone else dresses whether in the dining room or just on board. We are all trying to accomplish the same thing: HAVING A GREAT TIME ON VACATION!!!
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Old March 16th, 2010, 07:30 PM
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Captain,

Some clarification on your statement vis-a-vis your having a policeman suspended or fired for treating you what you felt was unjustly. That could well depend upon what state you're in.

All law enforcement officers in New York State are indemnified by the Public Officers Law which in a nutshell, saves them harmless from any financial injury as a result of their actions or inactions as long as they were operating within the law and the scope of their authority.

In short, a person can in New York State, sue an officer and be awarded a 50 million dollar judgment. Trouble is, the officer does not so much as lose a day's pay, any day's off or even an approved advancement in rank. His employer pays the money but there can be no retribution to the officer.

To wit: About 20 years ago a New York Transit Police officer coming out of the subway, spotted what we on the job up in that state refer to as a "skell" and down here back home, a "cull," unmercifully beating a very old man during a robbery. The officer hollered and the punk took off running. The officer then drew his service revolver, yelled a verbal warning to "Stop! Police!" and when of course the idiot didn't, fired and took down the punk who ended up paralyzed from the waist down.

Long story short, the punk sued the city and the officer and was awarded a huge sum for unjustified use of force. However, the officer was acting within his scope of employment and within the confines of Article 35 of the NYS Penal Law. Even though they went after the cop by using the Fleeing Felon Law where it is usually illegal to use deadly physical force against an unarmed fleeing felon, the cop was nevertheless within the law in that instance. I'll get farther into it if you require more info Captain, but suffice it to say I used to teach this stuff. As a matter of fact, on this very issue I once during a lunch break informed someone teaching the class that they were totally wrong and showed them where they were wrong. Who was the instructor? She was a new and extremely attractive Assistant District Attorney! Venice, you shoulda' been there!

Now for those who are upset that the punk won the money, don't worry, he didn't have it long. Such was the result when, as soon as that case was over, the elderly gentleman sued the punk and won every dime the punk had just received. As I understand it, he then took the award and turned it over for use by the Transit Police (who are now integrated into the NYPD). What did the punk get? A life in a wheelchair after he paid his debt to society. What I love is that in fact the Transit Police Department got a significant sum of unplanned money from when all was said and done.......ta daaaa....the coffers of it's Corporate boss!

And that, my friends, falls into the "There is a God after all" category.

Don'tcha just love it?!

Todd

Last edited by ToddDH; March 16th, 2010 at 07:37 PM.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old March 16th, 2010, 11:16 PM
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Todd...I remember that incident..fyi..I avoided assistant district attorneys (regardless of male/female) at all cost in my life ever since my run in with G. Gordon Liddy ::
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old March 16th, 2010, 11:35 PM
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Todd> Thank God I don't live in NY is all I can say to that.
However "false arrest" is outside the scope of most Officers' "scope of authority" as you put it.
More semantics...
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old March 17th, 2010, 12:54 AM
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Venice,

Yup, the guy goes from being an idiot who fires off a round in the courtroom to an idiot shilling on TV.

Captain,

I don't understand your opening sentence, "Thank God I don't live in New York is all I can say to that!" as it at least is in no way germane with my earlier post.

If a policeman arrests you unjustly, you of course have legal recourse that may, or may not, result in his/her termination and possibly incarceration. Police officers are subjected to the same laws as are all others; in fact they are often held to an even higher standard. All I'm putting forth is that if the officer is acting within his/her scope of authority as well as departmental regulations (which in and of itself would insure the legality of the officer's actions) and as I clearly stated in my first post, then while anyone can initiate a civil claim against against an officer under such circumstances as above described and while they might win, the officer is "saved harmless", from any subsequent judgement i.e.: they won't have to pay it.

Actually, why wouldn't you want to live in an area with such a fair and equitable system encompassing those who both "protect and serve?" I would submit to you that New York law enforcement officers are not only among the highest trained but are themselves among the "best policed" in this country. Oh, and lest one might forget, New York is considered an overwhelming "Blue" state and New York City is the "bluest part" of the whole state.

To my way of thinking, at least when it comes to law enforcement protection, New York is undoubtedly an excellent place in which to live. I'm extremely surprised therefore, at your comment.

But then of course, maybe I misunderstood whatever point you intended to make.

Todd
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Old March 17th, 2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelzbelz77 View Post
AMEN!!! As long as I am on a cruise ship, I really don't look at how anyone else dresses whether in the dining room or just on board. We are all trying to accomplish the same thing: HAVING A GREAT TIME ON VACATION!!!
I do look, especially if it is low cut
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Old March 17th, 2010, 08:06 AM
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Doug::::::...your motives are of coursepure you are making sure your fellow cruisers are complying with the spirit of the evening :: (that is the story you tell your wife right)
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Old March 17th, 2010, 11:51 AM
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So, Todd, all this aside, does the NY police officer "work for you"? Is he "accountable" to you? Or are they "saved harmless"? Which is it?

I will happily retract my statement that "the police officer works for me" if it really bothers you that much, and substitute "doctor" (we have socialized medecine here) or some other profession, like sanitation worker.... It really is a moot point, and people must be rolling their eyes at this.

My original point about the Master of the vessel still stands, of course. Without my cruise dollar, he has no job. Thus, while he technically could be my "host", so is a maitre d'hotel at a fancy restaurant... (Imagine if the Maitre d' just sat down with a table of diners and started chatting and eating) To be a true social host, one must be a social peer (an unpaid position), and the Captain most certainly does not meet this criteria.

Last edited by Captain Tennille; March 17th, 2010 at 12:01 PM.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 05:18 PM
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Captain,

The answer to your question is simply, "Both." It depends on legality and the incident.

Every state has its own laws but in essence, if a cop breaks the law then he "owns" that offense; whether it be corruption, police brutality, etc.

Any one can accuse a cop of a crime. Say an individual accuses an officer of "beating him up." Just as it is with any civilian, the District Attorney decides whether the case has sufficient merit to file criminal charges against the officer. Then the case progresses through our criminal justice system. If the officer is found guilty not only is he subject to criminal penalties but to civil judgements (law suits) levied against him associated with the offense for which he was convicted. So yes, a cop can be sued because he was wrong.

This country is in dire need of tort reform and has been for decades. This is especially true in New York (vis-a-vis the incident I related in my earlier post). New York State elected officials saw how suits could be lodged against an officer and of which he could be found guilty, even if he didn't commit any crime and that all this would adversely effect the entire process. In short, it could be a way for someone who was legitimately arrested, to get payback. Also, while doing his duties he might be seen as doing those duties incorrectly even when he's not. A perfect example would be an officer who, alone, happens upon an altercation between two guys, one of whom as a tire iron and is using it to threaten his opponent. The officer draws his weapon and orders the individual to drop the tire iron and he does. The officer re holsters his weapon, then investigates what happens and it turns out it was two friends who were arguing over something ridiculously small. Neither wants to press charges on the other, etc. So, not wanting to be considered unreasonable, the officer admonishes both men and sends them their separate ways. Immediately following the incident, the officer makes note of what occurred in his notebook and the action taken.

Some days later, the individual who had the tire iron (and of whom it is later determined, has gone to prison three separate times for aggravated assault, robbery and drug violations) goes into a precinct and charges that the officer drew his service weapon, pointed it at him for no reason whatsoever saving he happened to be in a "verbal" arguement and that no weapon or even anything that could be construed to be a weapon was involved and the fellow with whom he was arguing will so testify (after being informed by the fellow who is filing the suit that his "friend" will share in the proceeds). Now if the complainant wasn't lying (which we know that he is), such could constitute aggravated assault on the part of the officer. The Department's Internal Affairs Division conducts an investigation and finds the accusation unjusitifed as does the D.A. So the cop is safe.

BUT, the civilian then files a civil complaint and sues the officer on the same charges. A jury is convened and say all the jurors have something in common with the accuser (could be income level, ethnicity, etc.) that is not shared by the officer. A decision could be rendered against that officer by the jury even though as we have shown, he not only was not guilty of any crime but actually in this instance was officer "nice guy." This is one reason why I always recommended that if an officer was involved in a situation in which he felt their was a distinct danger of serious physical injury to either himself and or others and drew his weapon, somebody had best be arrested and booked. The officer had plenty of probable cause, the tire iron he could have seized as evidence and just allowed the judicial system to take it's course with the arrestee.

Now, such civil judgements are often overturned but what if they're not, as unfair as they may be?

This is a classic example of why, if an officer has not violated the law nor any regulations of his department, then he shouldn't be financially punished, even if the complainant wins his lawsuit.

Scenarios similar to the above happen every single day. The sad part is that there are many areas around this country that DON'T protect their law enforcement officers in this manner. Those are, wonder of all wonders, the areas that also don't attract the finest candidates for the law enforcement profession.

I'm quite sure folks are rolling their eyes at this as I probably would. However, I learned long ago that when folks make statements that are either incorrect or incomplete, it can negatively impact someone else. That is why I am so careful when it comes to the issue of law enforcement.

Todd

Last edited by ToddDH; March 17th, 2010 at 05:27 PM.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old March 17th, 2010, 06:27 PM
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My question is:

Should a law enforcement officer draw his weapon if someone is wearing torn jeans and tank top in the dining room on formal night?

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  #52 (permalink)  
Old March 17th, 2010, 06:59 PM
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Mike..thanks, this thread really went O/T

my brother and his wife were on the HOGS cruise last year and loved dressing up in their biker leather formal wear, which goes to show one that if folks remember the real reason why they went on the cruise, they will be tolerant of others who do not conform to someone elses standards in terms of dress
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
Captain,

Some clarification on your statement vis-a-vis your having a policeman suspended or fired for treating you what you felt was unjustly. That could well depend upon what state you're in.

All law enforcement officers in New York State are indemnified by the Public Officers Law which in a nutshell, saves them harmless from any financial injury as a result of their actions or inactions as long as they were operating within the law and the scope of their authority.

In short, a person can in New York State, sue an officer and be awarded a 50 million dollar judgment. Trouble is, the officer does not so much as lose a day's pay, any day's off or even an approved advancement in rank. His employer pays the money but there can be no retribution to the officer.

To wit: About 20 years ago a New York Transit Police officer coming out of the subway, spotted what we on the job up in that state refer to as a "skell" and down here back home, a "cull," unmercifully beating a very old man during a robbery. The officer hollered and the punk took off running. The officer then drew his service revolver, yelled a verbal warning to "Stop! Police!" and when of course the idiot didn't, fired and took down the punk who ended up paralyzed from the waist down.

Long story short, the punk sued the city and the officer and was awarded a huge sum for unjustified use of force. However, the officer was acting within his scope of employment and within the confines of Article 35 of the NYS Penal Law. Even though they went after the cop by using the Fleeing Felon Law where it is usually illegal to use deadly physical force against an unarmed fleeing felon, the cop was nevertheless within the law in that instance. I'll get farther into it if you require more info Captain, but suffice it to say I used to teach this stuff. As a matter of fact, on this very issue I once during a lunch break informed someone teaching the class that they were totally wrong and showed them where they were wrong. Who was the instructor? She was a new and extremely attractive Assistant District Attorney! Venice, you shoulda' been there!

Now for those who are upset that the punk won the money, don't worry, he didn't have it long. Such was the result when, as soon as that case was over, the elderly gentleman sued the punk and won every dime the punk had just received. As I understand it, he then took the award and turned it over for use by the Transit Police (who are now integrated into the NYPD). What did the punk get? A life in a wheelchair after he paid his debt to society. What I love is that in fact the Transit Police Department got a significant sum of unplanned money from when all was said and done.......ta daaaa....the coffers of it's Corporate boss!

And that, my friends, falls into the "There is a God after all" category.

Don'tcha just love it?!

Todd
Can I assume you were a NYC police officer ? Many of my friends are retired NYC police officers who were in Brooklyn ,Queens and Manhattan
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Old March 17th, 2010, 10:26 PM
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No Henry, I worked for the State up in the Hudson Valley. You may, however, recall the name of my Niece's husband, Rocco Laurie. He along with his Black partner, Gregory Foster were gunned down in the back by the BLA as they were walking their beat in the East Village in January of '72. There is a school named for him in Staten Island.

Todd
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Old March 18th, 2010, 10:50 AM
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Oh dear me, the dress code rears its ugly ahead, once again. I just don't get what all the hoopla is over the dress code thing, you book a cruise knowing full well that the cruise line has set certain standards of dress for certain evenings and venues, go with it, you are not forced to dress formally, the cruise lines have made sure that you have options to the main dining venues, but with that being said, if you choose to dine in the main dining venues on formal nights then you should dress accordingly out of respect for the staff, the crew, the cruise line and your fellow passengers who have made the effort, no biggie
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Old March 18th, 2010, 11:11 AM
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Lisa...well stated IMHO...with alternate (and freestyle) dining options this topic has become a dead horse and we should let it die an unnatural death

let's move on to cruise topics that are much more important, like when are the cruise lines going to introduce a "rebate sign and sail card" (much like the discover card) where you earn points for onboard purchases that you can redeem at the end of the cruise for future cruises
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Old March 18th, 2010, 11:44 AM
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Venice:

That is an EXCELLENT idea. You should post a poll asking if people would be interested in this type of option.

"All Things Cruising" would be a great place.

Take care,
Mike
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Old March 18th, 2010, 12:31 PM
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Mike..you know I am challenged on the technical front..I can't even post a picture (my buddies Kat,CQ and Luanne) perform that function on my behalf

feel free to put together a poll if you like..I just think it would be a great way to encourage folks to spend onboard (exclude the casino of course)
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Old March 18th, 2010, 01:01 PM
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I am surprised that at least one of the cruise lines haven't already latched on to the idea. Imagine getting some small amount back on the three page long bill on the last morning. :evil::evil: Of course, it might cost the cruise lines more than they would make on the increased spending.

As for the evening dress at dinner, I wish that RCI and Princess would adopt Carnival's dress code so that I could wear a collared sport shirt and dress slacks on "elegant" nights. I wouldn't want to be rude to my employee, the captain.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 03:29 PM
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Hey Venice,
I would go for a card like that, something the cruiselines/credit cards should consider.

Great idea!
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