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Old March 7th, 2010, 08:27 AM
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Default Appropriate Dining Attire

Not so long ago there was no such thing aboard an ocean liner as formal night. There was no need for such a distinction, as every night was formal night.

Proper dinner attire was and should continue to be white tie, white vest, tails, top hat, and at your pleasure, a walking cane. Additionally, a properly appointed tuxedo is appropriate. Any passenger arriving at the dining room in other than appropriate attire should be turned away.

Appropriate dining dress as follows:

(Mark and Michelle P., Cruisemates Sail of the Century, 31 December 2006)



(Carole and Earl, Cruisemates Sail of the Century, January 2007)



(Mike and Betty Mastellar, Cruisemates cruise, Getting Leid Again, 25 May 2004)




Passengers are dressed appropriately for dinner or they are not. As such, inappropriately dressed passengers are correctly directed to other dining venues.
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Old March 7th, 2010, 09:39 AM
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Thanks Dean,
They ALL look wonderful!
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Old March 7th, 2010, 10:44 AM
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Dean,

The pictures do look great and I will admit that we do clean up well but I have gone over to "The Dark Side". I now wear a dark suit for formal nights and the tuxedo is hanging in the closet. I lost weight and can't justify buying another one.

Both Betty and I enjoy CC casual on cruises, especially ones that are port intensive, and we're cruising to see "places" rather than just to go on the ship.

I don't know if I would ever go as far as the top hat and cane. Add a monocle and I would look too much like Mr. Peanut.

Take care,
Mike
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Old March 7th, 2010, 02:50 PM
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Mike I must agree with you on cc casual. I have a tux I have not wore for the last three cruises. With the bag weigh issue on airlines, it is easy to be more casual. I remember only having wore a sport coat with out a tie, not very dressed up for sure. I do try and dress up more on European cruises. The Baltic last May we did dress up more. I think cruising is changing, it seems like fewer people are dressing for dinner. On Caribbean and Hawaii cruises casual seems to be more acceptable. I used to think it was awful for people not to make more of an effort on formal nights, now I am one of those casual people. Mike
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Old March 7th, 2010, 04:39 PM
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I have a tux and white dinner jacket (and Arlene has some fancy dresses) but my cruises now are all country club casual. I take a sports coat or two to wear for dinner for special nights but no more tux. It has taken me a while to accept the change; however, as long as they still keep a proper decorum in the evening, I can live with CCC.
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Old March 7th, 2010, 04:45 PM
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My tux has been hanging in the closet for quite some time as well. It's been a dark suit for several years now!

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Old March 7th, 2010, 06:27 PM
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I've never worn a tux .I wear what is known as a tuxedo suit
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Old March 7th, 2010, 08:16 PM
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Although I too am sorry to see the reduction in formal dress aboard ship, I too understand the reasons for this. Back in the days when I would need a "tux," I would rent it. Of course being the brain dead individual I am, only later did I stop to consider that I could have purchased the darned thing for the cost of three rentals!

Now a little trivia.

The Tuxedo is named after Tuxedo Park, New York. Located in the lower corner of Orange county near the NYS Thruway and near if not actually on Rt. 17, Tuxedo Park was before the turn of the last century, a home to high rollers indeed. For the most part, it still is.

A well heeled Tuxedo resident whose name escapes me, was in London at some point during the 1880's when he was shown a more comfortable version of the formal dinner jacket which we know for it's distinct "tails" (think of a concert pianist "throwing" his tails back as he sits down at the piano). This new suit had a jacket that was the length of today's suit sans tails and was originally designed I think by or for the Prince of Wales. The fellow had one of these new dinner jacket type affairs made and brought it back with him to Tuxedo Park. All the liveried gentry greatly admired the suit including a man by the name of Griswold Lorillard whose family was in the Tobacco industry and whose ancestor was Pierre Lorillard (for those who are old enough (BIG gulp), think P. Lorillard cigarettes).

Lorillard performed some alterations on the original design including (at least I think it was his idea) the addition of the satin lapels and possibly even the black satin stripe down the pants. Griswold named it after the town in which he lived. The new "Tuxedo" debuted at a formal ball held in the fall of I believe either 1887 or 1888.

As the late Paul Harvey used to say, "Now you know the rrrrrrrrREST of the story!"

I know, I know. I should get a life!

Todd
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Old March 7th, 2010, 09:17 PM
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Default "Proper" attire

LMAO.......face it Mr Peanut........you are an antique.

I quite agree with you in that IF you chose to wear the tux, it is your right. However, when you describe the "proper attire", that is YOUR opinion, and you are incorrect. That is MY opinion.

ALL this Formal Night nonsense could be eliminated, once and for all, if the cruise lines would simply eliminate Formal Nights.

Wear what you want whenever you want............every night a tux?....if that floats your boat......go for it. BUT do not presume what is correct for me. I'll do that.

Thank you.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 12:41 AM
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I couldn't give a rat's posterior if I'm correctly dressed or not. Ditto for me vis-a-vis everyone else... Wear whatever makes you happy.

Now baggage restrictions make it even more the case. I raise an eyebrow at the lunatic who PACKS a tuxedo nowadays. Hey bud... got space for enough underwear for 7 days???

Why does this bother so many people? This particular horse was sent to the glue factory a long time ago.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 01:51 PM
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I look forward to the formal evenings. These days, we don't often get dressed up. As for packing formal stuff, I manage to pack two different outfits for myself and dirk's suit and accessories in a carry on bag. (The airline can misplace other things, but it is impossible to replace formals at the last minute.
I hope that the cruise lines don't take away our Senior (Citizen) Prom
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Old March 8th, 2010, 04:59 PM
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Something just popped into my head on this subject....

I have no issues with someone who likes wearing a tuxedo on a cruise. It's the part about "everybody must do as I do" that I have issues with. Must we all be clones in order to be accepted? That's so 2000 and late.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tennille View Post
I couldn't give a rat's posterior if I'm correctly dressed or not. Ditto for me vis-a-vis everyone else... Wear whatever makes you happy.

Now baggage restrictions make it even more the case. I raise an eyebrow at the lunatic who PACKS a tuxedo nowadays. Hey bud... got space for enough underwear for 7 days???

Why does this bother so many people? This particular horse was sent to the glue factory a long time ago.
It really seems to bother you. I am one of the many "lunatics" who packs a tux. Is that a problem?

Seems to be a case of reverse snobbery here.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 05:33 PM
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Todd, that's an interesting story re/ the Tuxedo. True or not, it's still interesting.
I've heard a couple of versions of how the plain old necktie came into being. What's your version on that?
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Old March 8th, 2010, 09:17 PM
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"I have no issues with someone who likes wearing a tuxedo on a cruise."

guess you missed that, doug....

FYI: the word lunatic was used facetiously... loosely referencing the famous "overpackers" here at CM.
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Old March 8th, 2010, 09:28 PM
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I have bored you with this story before, but when I worked on ships and had to put on a suit or tux night after night I swore that if I ever got to sail as a passenger i would ever dress up. No one was going to dictate to me that I must be formal on a cruise i was paying big bucks for.

So -let's just say that when NCL invented Free-style I was not surprised. I was more like "why didn't any cruise line think of this before?"

And for the record - there have been casual ships for a long time. As I recall Windstar never had formal nights, always CCC since even back in the early 90s. I am pretty sure that is true for Renaissance as well.

So - we can't really say NCL i9nvented "free-style" they just made it mainstream since those other cruise lines were far less known.

I bought another tux back when we booked a Crystal cruise out of respect for the cruise line. But these days on mainstream cruises i definitely just go for the dark suit. Its kind of nice - isn't it?
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Old March 8th, 2010, 11:16 PM
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Hello all, what the heck here I go again. I will take a tux on European cruises. I know if I am seated with people from the UK they will be more formal. I remember on our trip to Egypt I wore the tux the first formal night but the two other guys wore sport coats. The next formal night I wore a sport coat and tie. I think they were a little surprised. I felt like I fit in better, I think that was when you could take 60# to europe in each bag.I don.t mind what people wear. I will something I did not care for that was our first cruise to Mexico (1974) on the Sitmar Fairsea, I wore a coat and tie every night. I thing that was part of the reason my next cruise was in 2001. Mike
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Old March 9th, 2010, 01:54 AM
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Talking And Here it Is

There once were an evil couple. She hated men and invented the necktie. He hated women aand invented pantyhose!!!
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Old March 9th, 2010, 02:11 AM
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Sorry Ron, can't give you a whole lot there.

Neckwear in some form or another goes back I believe to antiquity But in a form as we know today, I believe that occurred in the mid 1800's or thereabout when it began to be looped once around the neck and then tied. I recall reading some time ago somewhere (it could well have been the internet) that color and style of the tie and the material used to construct it pretty much made known the social status of the wearer. I guess today it's similar to wearing a tailored suit that certainly didn't just "come off the rack" with a super expensive tie that makes everyone understand, "You've arrived."

Although I never was a "tie hound" for some reason I acquired a collection of dozens and dozens. I was a nut on the thing being properly knotted.

Oh and for the record, while most folks don't want to dress such as this in this day and age, I would still love occasionally to don a tux and attend a formal dinner. I not only don't feel out of place I truly enjoy what I guess I would call the "gentility" of the event. And I'll close with this. I am comfortable in virtually all venues. I have attended an afternoon a shall we say somewhat exclusive cocktail party and later that same evening, changed and gone to an establishment where they uhhhh.... frequently rearrange the furniture on Saturday nights and where not another soul who attended the earlier event would be caught dead...except of course me. I truly feel comfortable and fit in which both venues.

Todd
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Old March 9th, 2010, 05:24 PM
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I've heard a couple tales regarding the emergence of "neckties " over the last years.
One, supposedly was that it was a military thing that developed as far back as the late 1500-early 1600's. It could mean a variety of things--loyalty to a certain sect or group, another type /color would mean loyalty to another group, etc. Of course there was always the risk of being caught by the wrong group whilst wearing the wrong " cravat " and therefore having a tie known as a noose hung around your neck!
Another tale I heard was that it started as a way to ward off evil spirits and therefore was used as protection--then as time progressed, they became fancier,etc. Who knows?
Now maybe we can debate on when and where socks ( especially the Paisley type) got their start ??

Last edited by Ron; March 9th, 2010 at 05:33 PM.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 06:03 PM
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I gave up my tux three cruises a go, but that was mostly because , I, ..... uhh, outgrew mine. Now I've lost enough weight that I can get back into it -- so I'm taking it on the upcoming one!
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Old March 9th, 2010, 09:58 PM
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Captain Tennille,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Hey bud... got space for enough underwear for 7 days???
If that's a problem, you might want to consider carefully what sort of underwear you are packing.

>> For gents, the European style of low rise briefs or men's bikinis (available at Wal*Mart), when folded, take about half the space of either "tighty whities" or boxers.

>> And for ladies, "bra tops" lie flat and eliminate the need for brasieres and the new generation of ultra-low-rise thongs fold the most compactly of all styles of panties.

Your choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Why does this bother so many people? This particular horse was sent to the glue factory a long time ago.
Failure to conform to the "suggested" or "requesed" dress code is the hallmark of ignorance of social etiquette and an arrogant display of rudeness to the host(ess) (who, aboard a cruise ship, is the master of the vessel) and to the other guests as well.

So if you want everybody else aboard ship to think you to be rude, ignorant, and arrogant, all that you have to do is flaunt the dress code.

Norm.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 11:20 PM
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norm... Like I said...I don't give a rat's posterior. As well, the Master of the vessel is there for my benefit and service, not the other way around. His role of "host" is somewhat overvalued. (I would never dine with the maitre d'... at least not in a social setting, perhaps as a friend... I fail to see the difference.) This "Dining with the Captain", while perhaps a tradition and, oddly, an "honour", is a social faux-pas by definition. A true "host", by definition, is a social peer. The Master doesn't qualify.

I don't flaunt my wealth or status. In fact, I go out of my way every single day to downplay it. Pretense is a huge pet peeve of mine. I wear black jeans to the dining room, and couldn't care less if some pretentious idiot who can't rub two nickles together "in real life" is upset that I didn't drag a tux with me on my vacation, and spend my entire afternoon primping for strangers.

If it's not okay to judge people by their spelling and grammar on websites, then it's not okay to judge them on how they flaunt the dress codes. A family member of mine is approaching nine figures net worth, and he will NOT wear a tie under any circumstances. One would be an IMBECILE to judge such a person. Big mistake, perhaps the biggest of your life.

My own personal credo is "everyone gets a chance"... regardless of how they present themselves. There are pleasant surprises every day for me. Snobs, or the judgemental, can simply bite me, then hop the railing.

If that is "reverse discrimination" as someone else mentioned, then so be it. I don't see it that way.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 12:19 AM
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Rob and I still enjoy those "formal evenings" at dinner though Rob prefers to wear a nice suit. Personally, I am glad that there are several different types of "preferred dinner dress". As much as the formal nights are great there are times when we enjoy the "smart casual" and the "just casual". Variety in dress is "the spice of life". It is fun to wear different types of dress at dinner.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 06:42 AM
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my all time favorite friend of the family, left me several dozen colorful wide silk ties from the 1930's that I love wearing every chance I get...they don't make them like that anymore and great style never goes out of style

in New Orleans there are year round events that call for men to wear a tux..i use to rent one, then purchase a "cheap" one and then made the major investment for a tailored one (Boss Black) a Calvin Klein dress shirt, a nice pair of real black leather sole shoes, and custom made cufflinks..fits perfect in my suitor bag and my tailor can adjust for my weight flux between cruises

best investment I ever made and always compliments the stunning gown that my cabin mate likes to wear on formal night on our Jazz cruises or at the Mardi Gras balls
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Old March 11th, 2010, 08:10 PM
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Captain Tennille,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
norm... Like I said...I don't give a rat's posterior. As well, the Master of the vessel is there for my benefit and service, not the other way around. His role of "host" is somewhat overvalued. (I would never dine with the maitre d'... at least not in a social setting, perhaps as a friend... I fail to see the difference.) This "Dining with the Captain", while perhaps a tradition and, oddly, an "honour", is a social faux-pas by definition. A true "host", by definition, is a social peer. The Master doesn't qualify.
You're absolutely right. The master of the vessel is not your peer.

Traditionally, officers of vessels were members of the nobility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
A family member of mine is approaching nine figures net worth, and he will NOT wear a tie under any circumstances. One would be an IMBECILE to judge such a person. Big mistake, perhaps the biggest of your life.
You seem to be confusing wealth with social standing. Though historically correlated, they are not the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
My own personal credo is "everyone gets a chance"... regardless of how they present themselves. There are pleasant surprises every day for me. Snobs, or the judgemental, can simply bite me, then hop the railing.

If that is "reverse discrimination" as someone else mentioned, then so be it. I don't see it that way.
I'm all for everybody getting a chance. I have long advocated that there should be some cruise lines on which jeans or shorts and "T" shirts are acceptable evening attire. Obviously, there are some people who would prefer that sort of cruise experience, and I fully support the companies that offer it.

OTOH, there are also some of us who prefer a much dressier cruise experience on which "formal" evenings really are just that, and on which standards of dress are strictly enforced. I don't want to see every cruise line degenerate to the lowest common denominator of society.

And I hope that all of us will have, first, the prudence to reward the cruise lines that offer the style that we prefer with our business and, second, the class to conform to the standards of the line on which we are cruising if we choose to cruise on a line that has a different standard.

Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice -- but yer takes yer choice by yer selection of line rather than by not conforming when yer get aboard.

Norm.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 08:40 PM
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I agree that when you select a certain cruise line you are obligated to conform to the rules of that cruise line and the appropriate dress.

I don't agree that the Captain of a cruise ship is a member of the nobility. While this was normal 200 years ago. In the U.S. that changed around 1776. I think that "formal" concept of social status also changed about the same time. (The slave thing took a little longer to resolve.) However the practice of social strata is still alive and well in many circles.

Take care,
Mike
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Old March 11th, 2010, 09:40 PM
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"You seem to be confusing wealth with social standing. Though historically correlated, they are not the same."

Maybe true in Britain but not the USA. In America, especially in America, wealth and standing are totally synonymous. Maybe you have "old" wealth, and "new" wealth, but money still does all the talking.

And now, Masters of the Vessel are middle-class schmucks from Italy or Norway with two kids and a Volvo. Nobility indeed.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 10:03 PM
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The captain is not my "host", but, instead, works for me as I am one of those who pay his salary.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 12:00 AM
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"Maybe true in Britain but not the USA. In America, especially in America, wealth and standing are totally synonymous. Maybe you have "old" wealth, and "new" wealth, but money still does all the talking."



WOW!! I couldn't disagree more Captain. I know lots of people who have only modest amounts of money who have lots of respect and standing -- with everyone. And I know some very wealthy people who have neither. But then I could be wrong, I've only lived in the United States of America for 68 years.
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