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Old March 19th, 2010, 11:23 AM
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Default WW2 History Buffs ????

a question for you how did the United States government decide what families on the west coast to place into "relocation camps" and what was the criteria for selection ????

I heard something on the media the other night, that cause me to ask this question

thanks
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Old March 19th, 2010, 12:07 PM
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Are you referring to the Japanese ?
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Old March 19th, 2010, 12:54 PM
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yes, who were actually both natural born American citizens and those that had been granted citzenship
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Old March 19th, 2010, 03:27 PM
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I have a daughter who teaches history ,I will ask her
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Old March 19th, 2010, 05:34 PM
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Venice,

I may be wrong but if memory serves me correctly, I believe it had to do with information gathered during the 1940 Census.

Todd
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Old March 20th, 2010, 11:01 AM
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The critera was decided entirely by the local military commanders. An Executive Order by FDR created "Exclusion Zones" where the military could "exclude" anyone of "enemy" ancestory to futher the security of the homeland, regardless of their citizenship. These zones were basically the states of California, Oregon and Washington. Local military units did sweeps of neighborhoods and they decided who was to be sent to processing camps and ultimately to the internment camps. It is true that the Census Bureau did provide information to the military as to which neighborhoods those of Japanese ancestory were likely to live.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 01:38 PM
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that's what the FOX show stated and I was not surprised that the information on the 1936 and 1940 Census form was utilized, but I thought I would try to get some confirmation from these boards

I often wonder if secretly our government has (and is) compiling post 911 information on where naturalized or US born (or surnames) citizens of certain descent are located in this country using the Census form (despite the disclaimer ) and how that will impact how they fill out this survey..we know the work/student visa system is in chaos

I remember seeing the movie "From Here To Eternity" where it illustrated how much authority local military commanders had over the civilian population during WW2 ...the islands of Hawaii must have been a logistical nightmare...often wonder why Americans of European descent of declared enemies of the United States during WW2 were not treated the same way...think i will send that question to the local WW2 Museum and perhaps they will hold a seminar on it in the near future..they just had a great seminair about the valued artwork of WW2 that was stolen by the Nazi leadership and how it is still being returned to it's rightful owners 70 years later..fascinating stuff

makes one to wonder doesn't it? thanks for confirming what I had heard..i've learned never to judge acts done in the past without understanding the context of the times
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Old March 20th, 2010, 01:41 PM
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Perhaps because the japanese are not caucasian ,just a thought .
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Old March 20th, 2010, 02:04 PM
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at some point in the near future (20-30 years) the population of the United States will be the most diverse in our history and I think this 2010 Census will be utilized to track that trend..

it's going to drive changes in our immigration policy, our political parties make up etc...

the question is as a country do we embrace this trend or will we fight it tooth and nail (as we have in the past)..the litmus test will be the compostion of the United States Supreme Court which is the last bastion of the status quo

perhaps (to keep this on a cruising trend) we can study how the cruiselines adapt to the diverse make up of their crews..overall it seems to work for them very well and in many instances exposes an American population to the upcoming trend
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Old March 20th, 2010, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice View Post

I remember seeing the movie "From Here To Eternity" where it illustrated how much authority local military commanders had over the civilian population during WW2 ...the islands of Hawaii must have been a logistical nightmare...often wonder why Americans of European descent of declared enemies of the United States during WW2 were not treated the same way...think i will send that question to the local WW2 Museum and perhaps they will hold a seminar on it in the near future.
Actually, the Islands of Hawaii were not included in the exclusion zones, and only the Japanese considered to be potential spies or Japanese agents were detained under the "Alien Enemies Act". Those US Citizens of Japanese ancestory in Hawaii were not placed in camps. The reason was at the time the US Military was very fearful of a Japanese attack and invasion on the west coast of the US. This was the biggest fear of US citizens in 1941 and 1942. The reason they gave for the exclusion zones was to keep local Japanese from assisting any invasion force of Japan if they ever landed an invasion force on the west coast of the US.

I believe those of German and Italian ancestory did suffer considerable persecution during WW2, but not nearly as much as those from Japan. I don't believe that had nearly as much to do with race as it had to do with the shock of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Neither Germany or Italy had launched a surprise attack that killed over 3,000 Americans and sank virtually an entire fleet of US warships. It's hard for us, nearly 70 years later to understand the outrage of America from the attack on Pearl Harbor, and that outrage showed in their treatment of those of Japanese ancestory during the war. Of course our generation now can understand it a bit better since we lived through 9/11 in my opinion.

I'm a big WW2 and WW1 buff. I'm not a scholar or anything, I just own and have watched every documentary and movie ever made about those two wars.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 09:43 PM
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Blueliner,

You hit the nail squarely on the head...with one possible minor exception.

While of course some Italian and German Americans were detained it was an insignficant number compared with the German/Italian American population. If we had treated the Germans and Italians similarly to the way we treated the Japanese, they would have had to build a wall around all five boroughs of New York City, a goodly portion of Philadelphia, probably a quarter of Chicago, a good section of Pennsylvania, etc., etc..

As you so aptly pointed out, the Japanese sneak attacked us (and for all the "conspiracy theorists) I hate to burst your bubble but Roosevelt didn't know that Pearl Harbor was definitely the target). The Germans declared war against us prior to launching specific attacks. What was so reprehensible was the incarceration of thousands and thousands of loyal Japanese Americans many of whom had been here for two and three generations!

On additional matter that undoubtedly contributed to the hatred against the Japanese at that time. Remember that this country already had been well aware since 1937 of the unbridled brutality that the Japanese had inflicted upon Chinese civilians not to mention military prisoners even long before we entered the war; unspeakable cruelty on a scale so humongous as to be unimaginable. While almost all Americans are familiar with the Holocaust, relatively few have any conception that something just as equally horrific occurred in lands occupied by the Japanese. I wouldn't be surprised were I to learn that the torture and slaughter of Asian and SE Asian civilians as well as Americans and Europeans (i.e.: civiilians and POW's) didn't equal or maybe even exceed the Nazi crimes that occurred in Europe.

Todd
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Old March 20th, 2010, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice View Post
that's what the FOX show stated and I was not surprised that the information on the 1936 and 1940 Census form was utilized, but I thought I would try to get some confirmation from these boards

I often wonder if secretly our government has (and is) compiling post 911 information on where naturalized or US born (or surnames) citizens of certain descent are located in this country using the Census form (despite the disclaimer ) and how that will impact how they fill out this survey..we know the work/student visa system is in chaos

I remember seeing the movie "From Here To Eternity" where it illustrated how much authority local military commanders had over the civilian population during WW2 ...the islands of Hawaii must have been a logistical nightmare...often wonder why Americans of European descent of declared enemies of the United States during WW2 were not treated the same way...think i will send that question to the local WW2 Museum and perhaps they will hold a seminar on it in the near future..they just had a great seminair about the valued artwork of WW2 that was stolen by the Nazi leadership and how it is still being returned to it's rightful owners 70 years later..fascinating stuff

makes one to wonder doesn't it? thanks for confirming what I had heard..i've learned never to judge acts done in the past without understanding the context of the times
Venice, Very interesting thought. With the current census that is just out, I am sure that a lot of people wonder just what the government will use this one for.

I also like to learn new things and watch FOX, as there are a lot of things that one can learn that you won't hear elsewhere in the media.

Debra
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Old March 21st, 2010, 02:20 AM
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interesting responses..I read a book about Mao and it stated that his regime killed more of it's citizens then anyone in the history of man

I often wonder if by not understanding our past (history), we are doomed to repeat in the future....having the WW 2 Museum in New Orleans has just been a Godsend to having a perspective on why things happen during that time..they produce a well balance approach in both research and presentation of many controversial topics of that era..hopefully they will expand their ownline offerings so folks from around the world can share in the information..from time to time all should visit their website and if there is something of interest to you, let me know and I will go and mail you informational handouts

Nurse Deb..growing up my parents hammered into all of their sons, to not only read and watch what you agree with, but even more to read and watch what you don't agree with because you will learn more from them...
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Old March 21st, 2010, 05:13 AM
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Very intereting posts indeed!

I allways pains me to see that most people know very little about history.

As a history buff myself, I think that history repeats itself mostly because of peoples ignorance.

Thank you all who posted all the information on this thread.

I certainly hope that with more knowledge we will all learn to be tolerant of all other people who share this planet.

TM
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Old March 21st, 2010, 02:28 PM
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Venice and Manuel,

You are both so right. I even was reading where some schools in the US are now considering only teaching history form the 30's or 40's, forward, to our young children.

How can anyone have any sense of our history if the schools leave out things like the revolution, the Constitution, the tea parties, the civil war....?

Democracy is a very fragile thing and it is going to be up to the people to be informed and involved to keep it going.

Debra
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Old March 21st, 2010, 05:47 PM
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As an absolute history "nut," especially when it comes to the Second World War, yet nevertheless with knowledge of and interest in the Civil War and the War of Indpendence, I concur mightily with the above.

I also so dearly wish that revisionists from either the Right or the Left with political agendas would stop trying to slant history to their respective preferences. To do so is so unfair to our children and our childrens's children. Not to mention as a result of the concomitant ignorance, we toss aside the very reason it should be taught at all.

Todd
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 09:11 PM
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I agree about those loony radical groups on the far left and the far right. They unfortunately stand against most of the things that the rest of the country stands for and wants. Unfortunatley it does affect the education system in our country. As someone said history is very important as we look to the future.

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Last edited by Nurse Debra; March 23rd, 2010 at 09:25 PM.
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