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  #31 (permalink)  
Old July 5th, 2010, 08:48 PM
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Angry Politics on cruise mates

Let's get this straight folks.. President Obama is OUR President..many of you are still obviously unhappy that he won and keep putting him down. The
MAJORITY of the people voted for him.. If you don't like his policies... vote for somebody else.. but let's not second guess the man why he didn't do this or that..None of us knows the answers..and the complete disrespect shown for the President of the United States on this board does NOT belong.. Yes, this is a free country and the freedom of speech, .b ut it's easy for you all to attack a man that y ou obviously don't care for and didn't vote for.. Many of you want the Government out of our business.. but the minute things go wrong.. you want the Government to fix it..You can't have it both ways....I love the term "left government"..I could go on and on.. but politics and second guessing our President have no place on this board.. Where were you when we were dragged into a war in Afghanastan...
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old July 6th, 2010, 07:44 PM
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The comments have nothing do to with the man, Obama. I would bet is probably a very nice person. The comments are directed at a politician who to get elected, ran as a moderate, with a new "transparent" administration that would be built on high ethics, and on bi-partisan support. Now the truth of the matter is that he and his group have governed form the hard left point of view that in pursing their goals, even ignores the will of the majority of the citizens of the USA.

We are a Republic and not supposed to be governed by leftist, whose goal is to re-build this country in their personal image, while at the same time disregarding the US Constitution. This is a board for opinions and thank God, so far, we still all do have that right.

The current issue of the total lack of any solid plan to clean up the oil spill as it comes ashore is just one more example of a government that is more concerned with its agenda than the welfare of all Americans. With all the damage that has been done with the health care sham, with no doubt more to come; I am plenty worried that it may already be to late to develop a plan to manage the oil as it comes ashore, and this country may be in more trouble that most already fear that it is.

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old July 6th, 2010, 09:30 PM
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Nurse Debra for President !
She will solve all our problems.

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old July 6th, 2010, 10:17 PM
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I totally disagree . Any person who believes they are a leftist would not be sending troops to Aghanistan and Iraq .If he were truly the way you describe him he would have removed the troops immediately upon taking office . To me he is a foreign policy conservative .
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old July 6th, 2010, 11:27 PM
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I hate to disappoint you guys but here is the REAL truth.

The chance that you are going to change anyone's mind here are slim to none.

In all honesty, I do try to watch both sides of most debates. I will watch MSNBC, I want health care reform, I want out of Afghanistan.

But I am fiscally conservative. I want those things done with conservative methods, Unfortunately, the left is too far left to solve these problem in a fiscal responsible way, and the right is far too unorganized to solve them in the way they know is best.

And worst of all - most people do not even want to hear an opposing point of view. They are far more concerned with politics than they are with policy - and to me that is the biggest sin an American can commit.

I met New Yorkers on Epic just last week who still hadn't even heard of the Jones Act controversy. And when I expressed my surprise at that, they assumed I was criticizing them and started calling me the kinds of names the left has been using on the right since Obama came into office.

Not everyone on the right cares about stopping gay marriage or "choice" - nor are they crazy because they happen to read the Bible. Nor do we all think Sarah Palin is a viable candidate. (the left spends 100 times more hours talking about Sarah Palin than the right does - which would be like the right concentrating on Janeane Garafalo)

And not everyone on the left is a socialist, terrorist-sympathizer. The idea that this country should end the war and use the money to pay for universal health care is not such a bad idea. But don't tell me you are for universal health care and then gives the unions and trial lawyers sweetheart deals just to get it passed - without even reading the bill.

The biggest problem I see in this country right now is deafness - not to words, but to ideas. This country is SO caught up in the blame game right now nobody is really talking about any solutions anymore.

Or am I the only one who has noticed?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 07:17 AM
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Paul, I do agree with the blame game.

A few years ago I participated in a ( Kaizen ) event conducted by a highly aclaimed Japanese efficiency expert, and at one point he said ( when something goes wrong in America, you want to find someone to blame. In Japan we want to find a way to prevent mistake from hapening again.)
Now the US has been gone on the wrong road for quite some time and it will take every to turn things around.

However I do see some Obama bashing in the previous posts.

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 11:07 AM
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Default Left and right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
I hate to disappoint you guys but here is the REAL truth.

The chance that you are going to change anyone's mind here are slim to none.

In all honesty, I do try to watch both sides of most debates. I will watch MSNBC, I want health care reform, I want out of Afghanistan.

But I am fiscally conservative. I want those things done with conservative methods, Unfortunately, the left is too far left to solve these problem in a fiscal responsible way, and the right is far too unorganized to solve them in the way they know is best.

And worst of all - most people do not even want to hear an opposing point of view. They are far more concerned with politics than they are with policy - and to me that is the biggest sin an American can commit.

I met New Yorkers on Epic just last week who still hadn't even heard of the Jones Act controversy. And when I expressed my surprise at that, they assumed I was criticizing them and started calling me the kinds of names the left has been using on the right since Obama came into office.

Not everyone on the right cares about stopping gay marriage or "choice" - nor are they crazy because they happen to read the Bible. Nor do we all think Sarah Palin is a viable candidate. (the left spends 100 times more hours talking about Sarah Palin than the right does - which would be like the right concentrating on Janeane Garafalo)

And not everyone on the left is a socialist, terrorist-sympathizer. The idea that this country should end the war and use the money to pay for universal health care is not such a bad idea. But don't tell me you are for universal health care and then gives the unions and trial lawyers sweetheart deals just to get it passed - without even reading the bill.

The biggest problem I see in this country right now is deafness - not to words, but to ideas. This country is SO caught up in the blame game right now nobody is really talking about any solutions anymore.

Or am I the only one who has noticed?
I consider myself to be left of center on foreign policy but right of center on economic issues . My feeling is that the trillons of dollars spent by the USA in trying to police the world should in fact be used to feed the hungry in America .If you go to 5th Ave in Manhattan you will see people sleeping in cardboard boxes .This should never occur .
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 01:23 PM
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Anyone who watched Keith Oberman on MSNBC on Tuesday, July 6th, now knows that the Jones act has NO JURISDICTION in the gulf oil eruption that BP is trying oh so hard to clean up. There are several foreign ships involved in the attempts to clean up the mess.

Some people should check their facts before they parrot what they hear on Fox News and other "news" sources that seem to have a corporate bias.

So this entire thread was for not! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???????

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Palm View Post
Anyone who watched Keith Oberman on MSNBC on Tuesday, July 6th, now knows that the Jones act has NO JURISDICTION in the gulf oil eruption that BP is trying oh so hard to clean up. There are several foreign ships involved in the attempts to clean up the mess.

Some people should check their facts before they parrot what they hear on Fox News and other "news" sources that seem to have a corporate bias.

So this entire thread was for not! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???????

Very interesting !
There is a lot of mis-information on our news media.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 02:11 PM
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Angry News

Especially on Fox News is a joke... Had never even heard of the Jones Act before either... and I bet those people in NY hadn't either..Manuel and I are of the same mind...and no matter what you write Paul.. this thread has become very "right wing" with cruisers (obviously not lacking for $$$) who selfishly look out for themselves.. I hate seeing this board being taken and it's so obvious.. their hatred for our present government..Well, we are paying with our childrens lives in the Middle East with a mess the last administration got us into..
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 04:22 PM
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Very good point Parrot Mom and thanks for standing up for truth. Conviction is something we see very little of these days in America, or so it seems to me!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 05:02 PM
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Fox news does a great job in getting people upset about the left, but the are not un-biased. Acording to them everything the Democrats do is wrong and everything the Republicans do is right. Give me a break.
NBC news and CBS often refer to Mr. Obama when they should be saying President Obama.
Whether you agree with him or not he deserves respect for the office that he holds.
Respect for others and discipline are not too common in the US anymore.
We need to work together and Buy American instead of blaming the Politicians for our state of the economy.

TM

PS. I don't like to discuss politics, especially on cruisemates, but this has gone to the point where I had to express my opinion.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 05:09 PM
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Default Respect for the president of the united states

"Whether you agree with him or not he deserves respect for the office that he holds." THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY.....The majority of the people in the US voted for him.. and those unhappy with the results are acting like little babies..yes, I said it..Politics from the left and right do not belong on this board and it's difficult for me to read the attacks on OUR President.. I could go on and on but I only ask that you at least respect the Office of the President of the United States right or wrong.. and when your candidate runs for office y ou do show respect..
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 06:24 PM
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I think most Americans respect the office of the President of the United States; I know that I certainly do. Now, do I respect the effort of a group of like minded left wing thinkers, going against the will of the people on a variety of issues to pursue their goals, then the answer is NO!!

Also, I in no way meant to infer that all Democrats are far left, Socialist or whatever. However, at no time in my life can I remember, so many being in such power positions.

As Manuel said, maybe I should run for President. I was able to figure out in ten seconds that no way is it possible to give free health care to 20 million Americans (not counting the 20 million, or so, illegal aliens who are in this country and soon will probably be "deemed" to be given amnesty, while at the same time lowering costs and improving medical care for all. My nine year old grandson also figured that one out in a hurry.

Even the situation with the current regime filing a lawsuit, yesterday against the people of Arizona for daring to actually try to enforce their border. Even with some 70% of the people supporting the the new law and before the new law even takes effect, Obama wants to score some political points by filing this ridicules lawsuit. The people of Arizona who are already overwhelmed with illegal immigrants are now faced with their own federal government and Mexico filing lawsuits. There is more than a bit of irony to have your federal tax dollars used against you to fund this costly lawsuit. These same people will now also have their State tax dollars spent to defend the frivolous lawsuit. What ever has happened to the United States of America?

Paul is right that you are not going to change the minds of those who buy into this, but I have faith in the voters of America to see what is going on.

As for the oil spill, it is very clear that Obama has failed miserably in ensuring a timely clean-up. One can try to spin it any way they want, but, how else can any rational person explain why the offers from more than fourteen countries to help some 70+ days ago, were refused?

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  #45 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 06:54 PM
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Using the word "regime" shows the ignorance of the far right. Perhaps these teabaggers and such have never looked up the word regime nor do they care about true facts. (They certainly don't know the meaning of "teabagging.") The word "regime" shows an extrememly negative bias. The word "administration" on the other hand shows respect for the office of the president. But they deliberately choose not to use that word. If we on the left side of the scale had ever used the term "Busch Regime" we would probably have been flogged in the media. It's just like the idiots who call the democratic party the "democrat party." It''s a way of showing prejudice and disdain with a complete disregard for objectivity and analytical thought.

I would think any caring American citizen would question the words of Limbaugh, Beck, O'reily and others when they refuse to say one positive thing about anything the democratic party does or says, day in and day out. Is that kind of free speach objective analysis of the news or propoganda???

At the same time the righties have nothing to say but "we need less government" and share no plausable solutions for the very serious problems we face as a nation today!

"Suspending the Jones act" when it has absolutely no jurisdiction because of the distance from U.S. borders and/or shores, as a solution for the problems in the gulf is a good example of "problem fixing" from the Republicans. Making political arguements with a total diregard for the truth is a disgrace. Or so it seems to me...

Once again simple non-related solutions for very complex issues of the day! Good Grief!
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 07:05 PM
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What countries are these "more than fourteen nations" and where did you get your facts?

How many more than fourteen are there that have been refused? Huh?

Why were they refused? Do we really want every country involved in this issue?

Have you thought about that?

If Obama allows Iran, Cuba, or Venezuela to help out in the issue, what will Fox News say about that? How about North Korea???

Please explain the entire situation to us so that we will know all the facts and can make up our own minds...

Just because one tells a lie over and over and over again doesn't make it true!

Fox News? Rush Limbaugh? Beck? O'Reiley? Better check your story and its sources is all I have to say! O.M.G.

The real issue for this board is that if this thread had been started by someone with a left-leaning political view it would have been deleted due to "political overtones"

END OF RANT!
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 10:02 PM
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I happen to watch all news networks including PSNBC and NBC along with the other networks that support the leftist ideologist. When I want real news that is honest and not slanted toward the current regime, I do turn to FOX news.

Call it what you want, but when leaders ignore the US Constitution and ignore the wishes of the vast majority of the people, in IMHO it is not an administration.

That said, Obama has done a decent job in the war in Afghanistan and Iraq and that is freely admitted on FOX and most talk radio programs. So much for your thesis! What is troubling is a country on the brink of financial disaster and so-called leader ship is so tied toward its voter base, that can't even bring the clearest possible case of voter intimidation at the polls to trial because Obama and Holder noticed it was on some their guys involved.

This is the first time in my lifetime that a candidate has continued a political campaign a year and a half after winning the election, instead of making decisions to protect ALL Americans. When the powers that currently hold office find they can't even force themselves to say the words that are true like "illegal aliens" there is something seriously wrong.

The only thing most people expect from leadership an honest and transparent effort to help ALL Americans. I know the left think Obama is doing a great job, but most Americans, as shown in all the polls, would heartily disagree. It is way beyond the usual Democrat vs. Republican feud and instead is about reshaping the middle class into a permanent underclass dependent on the government.

Debra
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 10:14 PM
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Wink My Mood

For many reasons I have been "down" these past few days,especially today.. and you Nurse Debra have given me the biggest laughs to raise my spirits.. Keep it up and maybe, just maybe I'll get through this next trial and tribulation knowing that your out there reminding me of what I believe in. If it helps you rest tonight..I'm about to watch Rachel Maddow and her news program from Afghanastan

Last edited by Parrot Mom; July 7th, 2010 at 10:43 PM.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2010, 11:42 PM
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Sandra,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Let's get this straight folks.. President Obama is OUR President..many of you are still obviously unhappy that he won and keep putting him down. The
MAJORITY of the people voted for him..
True enough, but many of those who voted for him now have very serious cases of "buyer's remorse" because of his administration's failings. There's so much "buyer's remorse" out there that Dick Morris, who was President Clinton's political advisor, is now predicting that the G. O. P. will win clear majorities in both houses of Congress in this year's election. That will be pretty remarkable, as the Senators who are up for election this year were last elected in 2004, when a G. O. P. president won reelection with very long coattails.

Norm.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 02:56 AM
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Debra do you refuse to answer my questions? Do you not know the answers?
Are you a parrot or are you a person? Please answer these questions or I will assune you are a ditto head! Buttt...I already have my answer!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2010, 03:19 AM
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Debra! Don't forget the "Mission Accomplished" photo opportunity just off the coast of San Diego pretending it was in the the gulf. Was that not a
campagn photo op by President Bush Jr.??? Come on, are you kidding?

Now answer my questions which you have carefully ignored and for which you do not have the answers. Give us the solutions to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, if you know so much. Tell us your solution to the gulf oil underwater volcano. I'm sure we all would like to know the secrets, including PRESIDENT OBAMA!

Maybe you need another cruise to clear your mind you F.I.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 03:22 AM
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Debra do you mean MSNBC??? Or do you really mean PSNBC??? Maybe that is code for the home shoppimg network. God knows!
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2010, 07:14 AM
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I agree that the Republicans will make some gains in the next election, but since they don't have a clue of what is ruining this country things will continue on the same path.
Repubicans and Democrats who are in the Senate or the House, are only concerned with lining their own pockets and getting re-elected.
They don't even know or care how to create jobs in this country.

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Old July 8th, 2010, 07:19 AM
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Cool Answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Palm View Post
Debra do you refuse to answer my questions? Do you not know the answers?
Are you a parrot or are you a person? Please answer these questions or I will assune you are a ditto head! Buttt...I already have my answer!
PLEASE do not insult my SIX parrots.. my two African Greys DO NOT MIMIC... they make up their own replies from their own "bird" brains.. no repeating anything they have heard.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2010, 09:51 AM
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Debra are you a nurse?

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  #56 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2010, 10:03 AM
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Default Left ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Debra View Post
I happen to watch all news networks including PSNBC and NBC along with the other networks that support the leftist ideologist. When I want real news that is honest and not slanted toward the current regime, I do turn to FOX news.

Call it what you want, but when leaders ignore the US Constitution and ignore the wishes of the vast majority of the people, in IMHO it is not an administration.

That said, Obama has done a decent job in the war in Afghanistan and Iraq and that is freely admitted on FOX and most talk radio programs. So much for your thesis! What is troubling is a country on the brink of financial disaster and so-called leader ship is so tied toward its voter base, that can't even bring the clearest possible case of voter intimidation at the polls to trial because Obama and Holder noticed it was on some their guys involved.

This is the first time in my lifetime that a candidate has continued a political campaign a year and a half after winning the election, instead of making decisions to protect ALL Americans. When the powers that currently hold office find they can't even force themselves to say the words that are true like "illegal aliens" there is something seriously wrong.

The only thing most people expect from leadership an honest and transparent effort to help ALL Americans. I know the left think Obama is doing a great job, but most Americans, as shown in all the polls, would heartily disagree. It is way beyond the usual Democrat vs. Republican feud and instead is about reshaping the middle class into a permanent underclass dependent on the government.

Debra

You continue to ignore what I am posting .If Obama was truly a left wing politician he would not be sending troops to Afghanistan instead he would remove all troops from there and also Iraq.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Parrot mom I do owe you and only you (your parrots too) an apology. I have a cockateel and although he is not as smart as an African Grey, he does think and reason and process far better than many so called thinking human beings.

Parrot mom, I think this one is so programmed that additional information will not even allow her to think, much less admit that this whole excuse for nixing the Jones Act is all made up by some corporate genius trying to slide something through using Fox News as the conduit for the corporate propoganda.

Another case of "We need less regulation." Poppycock!
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Old July 8th, 2010, 11:02 AM
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Unhappy Less regulations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Palm View Post
Parrot mom I do owe you and only you (your parrots too) an apology. I have a cockateel and although he is not as smart as an African Grey, he does think and reason and process far better than many so called thinking human beings.

Parrot mom, I think this one is so programmed that additional information will not even allow her to think, much less admit that this whole excuse for nixing the Jones Act is all made up by some corporate genius trying to slide something through using Fox News as the conduit for the corporate propoganda.

Another case of "We need less regulation." Poppycock!
Apology accepted... Less regulations is what "they" want and then when there is a problem you hear them screaming for government intervention..Case in point...the banking industry and "their" worried what we do in our bedrooms and want to rule on that..
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
I consider myself to be left of center on foreign policy but right of center on economic issues
I agree.


Maybe I over-estimated the deterring effect the Jones Act has on the cleanup effort, but can anyone honestly say it is not a problem at all? I don't think so.

What Olbermann said may even be technically correct - but I find the argument that "because the cleanup work is more than 3 miles out" to be very limited.

By far the most important and time critical work is closest to shore - the Louisiana marshes for example. Technically, any shore belonging to the U.S. creates a 3-mile barrier. So the marshes and barrier islands make all foreign vessels off-limits for 3 miles.

Furthermore, the Jones Act disallows foreign vessels form transporting cargo between American ports. So, they would be restricted from picking up oil refuse ("cargo") anywhere within the 3-mile barrier, and then delivering it to a U.S. port - which they must do, they can't deliver it anywhere else in a timely manner.

Furthermore, it is documented that the Obama admin itself used the Jones Act as a reason to turn down the first offer of aid from the Dutch, some 70+ days ago.

So, despite whatever Olbermann may say, it does not mean the Act does not apply at all, and it does not mean we would not benefit by temporarily repealing it. We definitely would.

Last edited by Paul Motter; July 9th, 2010 at 07:18 PM. Reason: changed 12-mile to 3-mile, the correct limit
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Old July 8th, 2010, 03:22 PM
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_____ do you refuse to answer my questions? Do you not know the answers? Are you a parrot or are you a person? Please answer these questions or I will assume you are a ditto head! Buttt...I already have my answer!
Let's not take this discussion to that kind of name calling, please. I would like to see us debate the issue without getting off-topic or resorting to name-calling.

And by the way, I certainly have always known what a "teabagger" is and it is a very derogatory term. It doesn't belong here and it certainly was out of line coming from the mouths of certain elected officials I will not name.

By the same token - while words like "regime" are legitimate English lexicon, lets not ignore the obvious associations they have with certain political eras of the past. Please do not use such terms to refer to the current administration.

In other words, the challenge here is to see if we can discuss this issue without with name-calling, including innuendo. Act like you respect each other, which I believe you do.

Personally, I deplore what Fox does everytime it expresses shock that an elected official used a phrase like "redistribution of wealth." Get over it, the left believes in aid to people who have less - that does not make them socialists.

But I also deplore what the Olbermann does with his "worst people in the world." I think that is the most tasteless and unamerican media concept I have ever seen in my life. What has happened to respect for a difference of opinion in this country?

Meanwhile - Hannity's continued reference to his show as the "stop Obama express" and calling him "the annointed one" is getting VERY dated and he really should move on to more topical ideas. Obama's star is far less lustrous than it once was, so why doesn't he focus on new & better ideas instead of just criticizing?

I will say this - I mostly hold with conservative ideas, but I would much rather have the Clinton Era back than the Bush era. The problem, as i see it, is that people confuse politicians with parties.

Obama is not a typical democrat at all. He is rightist with his war policy, but he is ultra progressive with his budgeting. I don't like either of those, personally.

I admit I am not a fan of Obama as a President, but that does not mean I am anti-democratic party or thought. I want to like the democrats more than the republicans in principle, but I just really think they are taking us down the wrong road (the european debt model) right now.
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