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  #61 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2010, 08:34 PM
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Chuck Palm,

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Debra! Don't forget the "Mission Accomplished" photo opportunity just off the coast of San Diego pretending it was in the the gulf. Was that not a
campagn photo op by President Bush Jr.???
The stubborn reality is that the "Mission Accomplished" banner did indeed mark the end of the war that we went into Iraq to fight -- that is, the war against Saddam's regime.

Unfortunately, another adversary, Al Qaeda, decided to show up to take us on in Iraq. It is this second war that necessitated the "surge" and that we are still mopping up.

Norm.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 08:40 PM
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Paul,

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Obama is not a typical democrat at all. He is rightist with his war policy, but he is ultra progressive with his budgeting. I don't like either of those, personally.
I think that, if Barak had his 'druthers, he would have withdrawn our forces from both Iraq and Afghanistan long ago. Fortunately, the political reality is that such withdrawal is not a politically viable option. Thus, his hands are effectively tied in the matter.

Norm.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 09:07 PM
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Once again Debra, I ask you to tell us what 14 countries did we turn away?

[edited for rude comments - ed]
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Old July 8th, 2010, 10:24 PM
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Even the situation with the current regime filing a lawsuit, yesterday against the people of Arizona for daring to actually try to enforce their border. Even with some 70% of the people supporting the the new law and before the new law even takes effect, Obama wants to score some political points by filing this ridicules lawsuit
Sorry, but the part of the postI quoted above shows how distorted political arguements can get when politics are turned on and minds are turned off.

Read it again.. 70% of people support the new law... Obama wants to score political points?
Aren't those two at odds??? How does one score political points if 70% of people are against what you are doing?? Any logic there????????
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Old July 9th, 2010, 09:04 AM
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Kuki, your post makes a lot of sense. And is just what has been missing in some of the previous posts.

I still don't know if Debra is a nurse or not.

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Old July 9th, 2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuki View Post
Sorry, but the part of the postI quoted above shows how distorted political arguements can get when politics are turned on and minds are turned off.

Read it again.. 70% of people support the new law... Obama wants to score political points?
Aren't those two at odds??? How does one score political points if 70% of people are against what you are doing?? Any logic there????????
It makes sense. The points that are scored are with the party and with the people who put the official in office. Just because a majority of people want something doesn't mean it is beneficial for a political office holder to do what the majority wants. It is best for the official and the most "political" to do what the machine wants. It's how they got to where they are and how they stay there. You can go against what the majority of people want and still be re-elected but it rarely works to go against the actual people who put you there.

That's why it's called "Politics".

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Old July 9th, 2010, 11:58 AM
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I did a guest blog yesterday re my point of view.Thus far its generated interesting responses. If anyone cares to read the blog its: The Daily Grand And Sundry
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Old July 9th, 2010, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Palm View Post
Once again Debra, I ask you to tell us what 14 countries did we turn away? If you don't know then you shouldn't be repeating this propoganda and or lies!
The list as posted at foreignpolicy.com:

Quote:
They were the governments of Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Republic of Korea, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old July 9th, 2010, 07:43 PM
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I believe Obama is suing AZ because he is desperately losing the middle and will have to appeal strongly to fringe groups or else lose critical support. He is trying to appeal to the Latino vote, one of the fastest growing populations in the nation. But I know Mexicans (hey, I live in AZ) and even they don't want many of those crazies coming over the border.

I had a chance to talk to a legal Mexican alien for 7 hours (we gave him a ride from San Diego to PHX) and he was telling us about the drug cartels and corrupt police in his Mothers hometown. Mexico is an absolutely insane nation now - believe me - you do not want the kind of people he was describing coming here.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 07:47 PM
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Henry, I went there but could not tell which one was yours.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old July 9th, 2010, 09:57 PM
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Henry, I went there but could not tell which one was yours.
It begins :In 2007
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old July 9th, 2010, 11:35 PM
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It makes sense. The points that are scored are with the party and with the people who put the official in office
Though I do understand "the two party system", I thought the people who put people in office were the voters, no?

From what I understand (Canadian Eh) neither party can carry the national vote with only support from those in their party.

I also get that the "electoral college" can screw up the "majority vote" thing some, but it still doesn't make much sense to me that if 70% of people are really for or against anything, that it's good "politically" or any other way, to move against their wishes.

Rather than the majority wanting anything, at least to an outsider, it certainly appears the extreme edges of the political parties are trying to drive the bus.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old July 10th, 2010, 07:33 AM
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I believe Obama is suing AZ because he is desperately losing the middle and will have to appeal strongly to fringe groups or else lose critical support. He is trying to appeal to the Latino vote, one of the fastest growing populations in the nation. But I know Mexicans (hey, I live in AZ) and even they don't want many of those crazies coming over the border.

I had a chance to talk to a legal Mexican alien for 7 hours (we gave him a ride from San Diego to PHX) and he was telling us about the drug cartels and corrupt police in his Mothers hometown. Mexico is an absolutely insane nation now - believe me - you do not want the kind of people he was describing coming here.

Paul, we all know that Mexico has a high crime rate as does the US. The Arizona immigration law will not keep out the Hardened criminals or stop the drug cartel. As long as Americans are willing to pay big bucks for drugs, someone will supply them.
The Arizona law will keep out the poor Mexicans who come to the US to pick produce for illegal wages.
And it will keep people like me from going to Arizona because my first name is Manuel ( I'm not Hispanic ), and I have a suntan because I am retired and travel to a lot of warm places. Since I have been an American Citizen since 1965, I don't think that I should have to prove it to every cop in Arizona.

We have many other states to visit as well as Canada where I won't be suspected of being an illegal alien.

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  #74 (permalink)  
Old July 10th, 2010, 08:51 AM
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Default The opposition

Your absolutely right Kuki..."Rather than the majority wanting anything, at least to an outsider, it certainly appears the extreme edges of the political parties are trying to drive the bus." 'THEY' don't like the fact they lost...and no matter what good he is doing and what he is accomplishing will continue to discredit him
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old July 10th, 2010, 09:12 AM
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I think people forget that we have a Republic and not a Democracy. We elect "representatives" to make our laws and create policy.

While a majority of people may be in favor of something it is up to the representatives to either implement it or not. This is where the party system comes into play. The controlling party and their platform and agenda will shape the national policies and laws. They hope they do enough "stuff" to keep the majority happy and keep them in office. The average voter has a very short memory and will remember the "good" stuff they received and ignore or forget about the bad stuff.

If you don't keep the party happy you have little chance of getting the funding, endorsements and backing required to get into office. Yes, there are examples of people who have bucked the party and won but the there are an exponentially larger number of those who bucked the party and went into oblivion.

This is why voting is important and being an informed voter is extremely important. It drives me nuts when I hear someone say they'll vote for someone just because they have an honest face or is the right color or religion.

Take care,
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old July 10th, 2010, 09:36 AM
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Or the other excuse is..."oh they are all crooKs" and "what difference"... folks.. don't vote!!! Let me be the one who v otes for my candidate, stay home..moan and groan.BUT DON'T COMPLAIN
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old July 11th, 2010, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post

. It drives me nuts when I hear someone say they'll vote for someone just because they have an honest face or is the right color or religion.

Take care,
Mike
I also don't care for people who don't vote for a someone who does not have the right color or religion. It's also quite ridiculous to judge a candidate on the clothes they wear.

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Old July 11th, 2010, 08:22 AM
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Manuel is correct. He is a U.S. citizen and just because Arizona passed this silly hurtful law doesn't mean he and many others should give up their right to protection from illegal search and seizure without probable cause. just because some cop has a suspician he may be an illegal resident.

Let's have our cops looking for real criminals and not spend their time rousting hard working members of our communities.

There is a simple answer as to why this law ever even passed. The Republicans are using this because people are getting tired of the other wedge issues like abortion and gay bashing that they have brought up in the past on even numbered election years.If you get people excited about these wacko wedge issues, then they won't pay attention to the issues that really effect their lives like health care and others. Or so it seems to me...
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old July 11th, 2010, 01:07 PM
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July 8th, 2010, 09:07 PM
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Once again Debra, I ask you to tell us what 14 countries did we turn away?

[edited for rude comments - ed]


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Palm
Once again Debra, I ask you to tell us what 14 countries did we turn away? If you don't know then you shouldn't be repeating this propoganda and or lies!
The list as posted at foreignpolicy.com:
Quote:
They were the governments of Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Republic of Korea, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations.



Thanks Wilbur for your input. These kinds of posts saying someone is lying when in reality the truth is the truth, just goes to show that everyone needs to make an honest effort to be informed with the facts and not just depend on information from the far left or the far right.

Also, a big thank you to the editors for removing the crude comment on this thread. Glad to see that no one would even justify the comment with a response.

Debra

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Old July 11th, 2010, 11:45 PM
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Nurse D

That information does not come from any of the mainstream media.

I keep up with news from various sources, including European websites.

I have not seen this list before.

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  #81 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2010, 06:37 PM
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Chuck Palm,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Manuel is correct. He is a U.S. citizen and just because Arizona passed this silly hurtful law doesn't mean he and many others should give up their right to protection from illegal search and seizure without probable cause. just because some cop has a suspician he may be an illegal resident.

Let's have our cops looking for real criminals and not spend their time rousting hard working members of our communities.

There is a simple answer as to why this law ever even passed. The Republicans are using this because people are getting tired of the other wedge issues like abortion and gay bashing that they have brought up in the past on even numbered election years.If you get people excited about these wacko wedge issues, then they won't pay attention to the issues that really effect their lives like health care and others. Or so it seems to me...
The one detail that you seem to be forgetting is that a foreigner who is present in our country in violation of our laws is guilty of a crime thereby, and thus is a criminal.

Norm.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2010, 09:39 PM
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First of all, the mainstream media is STILL covering up the fact that this law only applies in cases where the subject has been stopped for another lawful reason (like speeding) AND there is a reasonable suspicion he is an illegal alien (like he has no ID).

Plus the law says he cannot be arrested just because he forgot his "papers." The policeman has to fully discover this person is not an America Citizen before they can detain him.

In other words, there is nothing biased or racial profiling about this law. but the mainstream media is STILL spreading the lie that it says you can stop a person merely on suspicion. That is NOT true.

Bill O'Reilly just showed an interview on ABC with Bob Schieffer asking Eric Holder about the AZ law that "says a policeman can pull over anyone on suspiscion they are illegal aliens" done yesterday.

Anyone who believes everything they hear in the media without questioning it these days is an absolute fool. There are many people in this country who do not want the truth about legal laws to address real problems coming out merely for political reasons, and the fact that it is the PRESS, who used to take a vow of truth and impartiality, who is lting to the American public, is absolutely frightening.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
The Republicans are using this because people are getting tired of the other wedge issues like abortion and gay bashing that they have brought up in the past on even numbered election years.If you get people excited about these wacko wedge issues, then they won't pay attention to the issues that really effect their lives like health care and others.
I am a conservative voter but I couldn't care less if anyone is gay, and I am pro-choice. i dont vote over social issues, I vote for government issues - like defense and budget.

It seems to me you are the one who just brought these issues up - and you ascribed them to the right which pretty much shows that it is the left using these wedge issues, not the right, to scare fringe voters away from the conservative party.

I believe everyone has a right to privacy and freedom from gov't. interference in their personal lives - including gays and "choice." Just because a conservative wouldn't choose to have an abortion personally it doesn't mean they want to overturn Roe V Wade.

I will agree with you on this - these issues do not matter, but honestly, I hear the left talking about them far more than the right does. What we really care about is responsible government, not private lives. But that you for demonstrating my point before I even had to ask.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2010, 03:43 PM
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Default Help by other countries?

"We will now be feeling the effects for many months, and probably years into the future because of this irresponsible delay in accepting the help offered by some 14 countries all around the world"

Sounds like we never learn from other world disasters like the Russians not wanting help and knowledge for their sub off Norway, Own self as the kids say.

On the other side who would have been the agreed coordinator of these ships and what expertise were they bringing when you are talking about depths that even a submarine cannot get to, Thankfully at least they had robot ones.

Weeks later we see in the news that a Russian-owned
submersibles exists
Asian Energy: Russian sub 'could stop oil leak'

"Russian-owned submersibles would be able to cap the oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico, the captain of one of the vessels has said. "

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...144_resize.jpg

Why would any oil company who drill in these depths not have a backup plan to call upon these options instead of telling us to wait two months for backup relief wells to be created??


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Old July 13th, 2010, 10:26 PM
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Nurse D

That information does not come from any of the mainstream media.

I keep up with news from various sources, including European websites.

I have not seen this list before.

TM

Your post does point out the heart of the problem in the United States today. I don't doubt it one bit that you have not heard a word about the offer to help from fourteen countries that were turned down by Obama. The mainstream media such as what used to be news organizations like ABC, CBC and the preeminent Liberal promoter NBC and its cable affiliate, who I like to call PMS-NBC have all failed to report to any fair degree Obama'a past associations with terrorist and folks like Wright who simply hate America. This same so-called mainstream media also failed to fairly report the health care debacle and the bribes and underhanded deals that were employed to cram the start of government takeover of our healthcare system down our throats.

No reports about Obama and Holder looking the other way on a clear case of voter intimidation in Baltimore. In fact, on FOX News, I just saw a video of a Liberal US Senator or Congressman, can't remember which, who when asked about this issue, he replied that "he had never heard about the case"! Now either he was just plain lying or completely uniformed about what is really going on in his own country. Just goes to show that people can be easily misled by the media and if this continues this country is in real trouble.

As others have said it is up to every citizen to get the real facts and not be taken by clever sound bytes.
If that comes to pass, as most polls indicate, then this country will regain the ideals of the founding fathers and follow the Constitution.

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Old July 14th, 2010, 12:55 AM
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A typical political discussion, with each side calling the sources of material they don't believe liars, and those they do believe as stating the true facts.

The problem, they are all liars.

At any rate, as to the topic of the gulf spill...


Epoch Times - Giant Oil Skimmer 'A Whale' In Tests to Target BP Oil Spill

Though I believe I heard that the technology isn't working as they were told it would... I do believe this is a foreign owned vessel. Though by the time all the politcos are done with it, it could be on loan from Kenya rolf
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Old July 14th, 2010, 07:26 AM
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I agree with Kuki that politicians are all liars.

And furthemore, the people in Congress are not doing anything at all to help the USA. All they care about is to line their pockets.

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Old July 15th, 2010, 05:48 PM
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I don't believe that ALL politicians are liars. Granted, there are far too many liars that are in Congress, from both parties, and in the White House at this time. It just means that the voting public had better pay closer attention to the past associations and the voting records of candidates and pay a lot less attention to eloquent speeches and wild-eyed promises. Unfortunately, many of the voting public are so turned off by the corruption, bribes, secret meetings and deals, etc that they don't even bother to vote. If every informed voter felt this way then elections would be determined by corrupt groups such as ACORN and other Liberal groups.

As I said before, get informed with the facts and armed with the truth and get out and vote. It is the only way to turn this country around.

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Old July 15th, 2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
As I said before, get informed with the facts and armed with the truth and get out and vote.
What you're saying is get armed with YOUR truth. That's demonstrated clearly by your own words in your post...."ACORN and other liberal groups".

I just can't help it. Those aren't the words of someone with an open mind looking for the facts, and ways to turn things around. Just more of someone who's hook, line and sinker, following the party line.

According to you, if it's a liberal group they can't possibly be truthful.

That's the way to hunt for solutions alright. Good luck!
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Old July 15th, 2010, 06:53 PM
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I do agree that all politicians are liars - which is why we need to get rid of them and elect non-politicians.
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