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Old May 5th, 2011, 08:45 PM
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Default Release Photo of Bin Laden or not?

Interesting question.

I am basically not in favor of releasing the death photo of Usama Bin Laden simply because the Secretary of Defense thinks it might be harmful to our troops not to mention that such photos can be extremely traumatic to many people (and believe me, that I know). People say they released photos of Hussein's sons but then by that time, he was a defeated enemy. Nevertheless, they were released to reassure the Iraqi population. I really don't think they needed to be published in this country but all that falls under what I call "rubbernecking a severe car wreck syndrome" so it would happen.

On the flip side, there are untold numbers of anti-Bin Laden Muslins who have said they need to see a picture because they have been lied to so many times by their rulers/regimes that they are afraid to believe a claim of this magnitude of any Government. There has been talk of releasing DNA evidence which is certainly sufficient for most in the West (barring of course the lunatic fringe). It should be noted that the above people don't even believe Al Quaeda (or whatever this week's spelling of that organization is) saying he has been "martyred." They also don't have a clue as to what DNA testing is and probably wouldn't believe that themselves.

So, there are valid points to both sides. Therefore............

What is your opinion and why, if you are so inclined to respond?

Thanks for your input.

Todd

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Old May 5th, 2011, 08:49 PM
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He's dead. If he were still alive there would have been a "video" released by now.

I think that the U.S. and the rest of the world should just move on. Even though that isn't going to happen.

Don't release the photos.

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Old May 5th, 2011, 09:00 PM
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I suppport the decision not to release the photos...I suspect there is more to the rational then what we already know..error on the side of caution..by not releasing them we know that any photos out there are not the real ones
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Old May 5th, 2011, 09:21 PM
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No, don't release the pictures.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 09:21 PM
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There's no need nor any thing gained by releasing any photos.Those that believe he's dead will believe it and those few that find " conspiracies " in everything that happens will continue to refuse to believe he's dead, even if they had his corpse.
Wonder how long it'll be before he's spotted somewhere at a Burger King ???
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Old May 5th, 2011, 09:55 PM
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If the photos are released there will be people who will say the photos were doctored . Its a catch-22 situation . I watched the press conference held by Obama's Chief of Staff ,Jay Carney . It appeared that the majority of the press corp believed the photos should be released .

My closest adult relative ,the man who was my second father spent a good portion of his life in the CIA . One of my childhood friends recently retired from the CIA and from the little info that they were able to discuss with me over the years I believe that the need for being secretavive ,for lack of a better word , is something that has to be .
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Old May 5th, 2011, 09:59 PM
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Thus far, you have provided excellent reasons for your positions.

Anyone out there who believe they should be relased and of course, why?

Thanks again for the responses thus far.

Todd
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Old May 5th, 2011, 10:02 PM
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There's nothing to be gained by releasing photos.

Conspiracy theorists will say they've been photoshopped and we'll be back to square one, arguing endlessly.

Mike's right: if he were alive there would already be a video of him gleefully holding up a newspaper proclaiming his death.

The AP has filed a Freedom of Information request to get the photos. I hope they're unsuccessful.

Although it might be best to check with the Donald to see what he thinks. He might already have launched his own investigation.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 10:09 PM
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There are several groups of people who have opined on the issue .You have the people who believe that OBL was shot in the head ,well actually above the neck as clarified by Jay Carney .

Others believe that OBL was taken into custody because he said he would assist the US government in finding terrorists but in order not to be considered a traitor they would pretend he was dead (sort of like an episode of 24) .

Still others believe that OBL died a number of years ago and this was merely a OBL pretender .

While I personally would have favored OBL being brought back for public trial as Eichman was in Israel I also realize as I have stated before that its likely that there shall be hundreds if not thousands of books ,movies ,plays ,etc about the demise of OBL.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 10:45 PM
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I don't think that there is any reason to release a photo.

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Old May 6th, 2011, 01:58 AM
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24 the movie has acquired the rights to the pictures ..would not national security trump the freedom of information petition
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Old May 6th, 2011, 02:16 AM
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AR..Donald Trump did not pay his investigators their fee from the birth certificate job, so his credit is no good in that arena ::..I think the administration is prepared to ride out the short term firestorm and the Republicans have enough political sense to only stir the pot just so much (without having their fingerprints on it) and instead focus on the torture information provide the key link to this mission angle instead..going to Ground Zero yesterday and the manner in which POTUS Obama conducted himself IMHO struck the delicate balance that gave the American public confidence..it will be interesting to hear Sec. Gates (whom I bet will receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom) take on this issue, since he worked for both administrations..class act that Mayor Rudy G., was with the POTUS yesterday and Donald R. was with VPOTUS Biden at the Pentagon...believe it or not, I understand why former POTUS Bush declined to participate...
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Old May 6th, 2011, 07:09 AM
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I say they should release the photos. Why not put them out there for the world to see.Make an example out of this piece of trash.As far as the photos being to graphic for some people if you are that sensutive dont look at them its not like there going to be put up on billboards next to the freeway! I looked at the other photos they released of his goons who were killed Ive seen more graphis stuff on movies that Hollywood has put out.Maybe they should replay the 9/11 attack right next to the photo of this piece of crap laying there dead.I think that Americans as a whole tend to have short memorys. Show the photos let the world see. If you dont want to look then dont give people the chose .:
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Old May 6th, 2011, 07:52 AM
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I know I just posted but this subject has hit a nerve! Lets not just think about the photos being released as way to prove that this piece of crap is dead. But as a way to send a message to the world! I dont understand why this nation has gotten so soft everyone is so worried about what all the other nations will think.And heaven forbid we should upset the reliougus world!Why are we so concerned about what everyone else thinks?Have we become so soft and forgetfiul ?Do we have to try and make the whole world love us? Because they dont Do you think that on 9/11 the whole world felt for the U.S.A or do you think some relious groups and some people in other countries might of had a liitle smile on their faces that morning?Show the picture for those of us who want to look will look.There are other reasons to want to see this piece of human waste dead then just to prove he is dead! And lets not ever forget what happened on the morning of 9/11 when over 3000 AMERICANS let for work that morning and never made it home!
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Old May 6th, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry43 View Post
It appeared that the majority of the press corp believed the photos should be released .
The press corps knows what sells papers and drives TV ratings.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 09:54 AM
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Default Rudy Giuliani

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice View Post
AR..Donald Trump did not pay his investigators their fee from the birth certificate job, so his credit is no good in that arena ::..I think the administration is prepared to ride out the short term firestorm and the Republicans have enough political sense to only stir the pot just so much (without having their fingerprints on it) and instead focus on the torture information provide the key link to this mission angle instead..going to Ground Zero yesterday and the manner in which POTUS Obama conducted himself IMHO struck the delicate balance that gave the American public confidence..it will be interesting to hear Sec. Gates (whom I bet will receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom) take on this issue, since he worked for both administrations..class act that Mayor Rudy G., was with the POTUS yesterday and Donald R. was with VPOTUS Biden at the Pentagon...believe it or not, I understand why former POTUS Bush declined to participate...
When Giuliani was Mayor of NYC one of the things he told the residents was that he would clean up the Times Square area .However ,at the very same time he was a silent partner in several Gentlemen clubs in the city aka Prostitution Parlors .
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Old May 6th, 2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhill View Post
And lets not ever forget what happened on the morning of 9/11 when over 3000 AMERICANS let for work that morning and never made it home!
If our zeal to rub our revenge in the faces of the world were to result in the release of the photos, those photos would be used by our enemies as a shrine for bin Laden, a rallying point for those who hate us. It would feed the vicious circle of hate and one-upsmanship that we should be trying to break.

And the release of photos would do nothing to help me remember 9/11. I was lucky that I didn't lose any family or friends, but one son was and still is a pilot for an airline based in Dallas. He lost comrades just as surely as the firefighters and the police did. Our other son was on his way to work in lower Manhattan, but stopped off at the NYU gym to work out. If he hadn't, who knows? And my wife was in an office building a block and a half from the White House, where the Shanksville plane may or may not have been headed (it was either there or the Capitol).

Most Americans have ties to 9/11, even if they're two or three degrees of separation away. Those who don't will still remember, and graphic death photos will do nothing to refresh memories that can never be dimmed.

Getting the job done in a workmanlike way and moving on to the next item on the agenda represents the best of who we are. Bombast and chest-thumping do not.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 11:22 AM
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I would not release the photos.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 02:35 PM
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Henry,


The Giuliani allegation I believe could be important news. Can you steer me to a nationally recognized and respected news article?

TDH
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Old May 6th, 2011, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
If our zeal to rub our revenge in the faces of the world were to result in the release of the photos, those photos would be used by our enemies as a shrine for bin Laden, a rallying point for those who hate us. It would feed the vicious circle of hate and one-upsmanship that we should be trying to break.

And the release of photos would do nothing to help me remember 9/11. I was lucky that I didn't lose any family or friends, but one son was and still is a pilot for an airline based in Dallas. He lost comrades just as surely as the firefighters and the police did. Our other son was on his way to work in lower Manhattan, but stopped off at the NYU gym to work out. If he hadn't, who knows? And my wife was in an office building a block and a half from the White House, where the Shanksville plane may or may not have been headed (it was either there or the Capitol).

Most Americans have ties to 9/11, even if they're two or three degrees of separation away. Those who don't will still remember, and graphic death photos will do nothing to refresh memories that can never be dimmed.

Getting the job done in a workmanlike way and moving on to the next item on the agenda represents the best of who we are. Bombast and chest-thumping do not.
I was supposed to meet a friend that morning at the WTC but he changed the meeting date to the following day .He died that day saving others .He was a highly decorated Vietnam War soldier ,a highly decorated NYC police officer (retired)and Chief of Security of a company at the WTC . I have been to every US city that has a 911 Memorial wall and have had as my avatar a photo of the NYC wall .
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Old May 6th, 2011, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
Henry,


The Giuliani allegation I believe could be important news. Can you steer me to a nationally recognized and respected news article?

TDH
I believe that I told you my source in an e-mail once .
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Old May 6th, 2011, 04:47 PM
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I should not have posted this ,I cannot substantiate it on the board .
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Old May 6th, 2011, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron View Post
There's no need nor any thing gained by releasing any photos.Those that believe he's dead will believe it and those few that find " conspiracies " in everything that happens will continue to refuse to believe he's dead, even if they had his corpse.
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Wonder how long it'll be before he's spotted somewhere at a Burger King ???
I think he will show up at Graceland!

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Old May 6th, 2011, 05:47 PM
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Seriously I think it is better left the way it is. Do not show those photos. Believe it or not as you wish.

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Old May 6th, 2011, 09:33 PM
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First of all Henry, I'm sorry but I think I know what source you are citing and that is not a true news source at all but is very progressively biased as opposed to something such as NBC, CBS, ABC or The New York Times in a news rather than opinion piece all of the aforementioned which by the way, would give their collective right arms to confirm such an allegation.

According to Pentagon/CIA sources, including an individual on site at the time of the raid, the team didn't even start up the stairs to the second and third floors for probably as long as ten-fifteen minutes as they destroyed the helicopter and gathered up computers, discs, hard drives, etc. Among them was a dog and some CIA operatives. After all, Bin Laden wasn't going anywhere anyway. Upon starting up the stairs, his 19 year old son came charging down the stairs and was dead before he hit the stairs. They were confronted by UBL's wife who came at them hysterically and was shot in the leg (SEALS don't kill women and children unless it is completely unvoidable -- they are conatantly training on shoot-don't shoot scenarios and their reaction time is phenomenal). As they burst into the room on the third floor, it was full of women and children including Bin Laden's three year old son. I think it of note that Bin Laden was standing behind the women and children with a dazed and extremely frightened look on his face, An opinion was put forth that it is possible he thought he would be taken alive. The SEALS made it a point to get the children and most of the women out of the room when they noticed he was within reach of an AK-47 and a Makarov (Russian) automatic pistol. There was absolutely no hesitation by the SEALS, he was blown away. From the time they charged up the stairs to finishing the job took less than thirty seconds. The average age of the SEALS involved (as some will find surprising) is 38 years of age.

The average SEAL fires in a year as many or more rounds as many police departments will in requalifying all of their officers. They are, as I think everyone now understands, the best in the world at what they do.

Todd
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Old May 6th, 2011, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
First of all Henry, I'm sorry but I think I know what source you are citing and that is not a true news source at all but is very progressively biased as opposed to something such as NBC, CBS, ABC or The New York Times in a news rather than opinion piece all of the aforementioned which by the way, would give their collective right arms to confirm such an allegation.

According to Pentagon/CIA sources, including an individual on site at the time of the raid, the team didn't even start up the stairs to the second and third floors for probably as long as ten-fifteen minutes as they destroyed the helicopter and gathered up computers, discs, hard drives, etc. Among them was a dog and some CIA operatives. After all, Bin Laden wasn't going anywhere anyway. Upon starting up the stairs, his 19 year old son came charging down the stairs and was dead before he hit the stairs. They were confronted by UBL's wife who came at them hysterically and was shot in the leg (SEALS don't kill women and children unless it is completely unvoidable -- they are conatantly training on shoot-don't shoot scenarios and their reaction time is phenomenal). As they burst into the room on the third floor, it was full of women and children including Bin Laden's three year old son. I think it of note that Bin Laden was standing behind the women and children with a dazed and extremely frightened look on his face, An opinion was put forth that it is possible he thought he would be taken alive. The SEALS made it a point to get the children and most of the women out of the room when they noticed he was within reach of an AK-47 and a Makarov (Russian) automatic pistol. There was absolutely no hesitation by the SEALS, he was blown away. From the time they charged up the stairs to finishing the job took less than thirty seconds. The average age of the SEALS involved (as some will find surprising) is 38 years of age.

The average SEAL fires in a year as many or more rounds as many police departments will in requalifying all of their officers. They are, as I think everyone now understands, the best in the world at what they do.

Todd
My source is not from the written media .I'll just leave it as that.I erred in posting .
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Old May 7th, 2011, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
If our zeal to rub our revenge in the faces of the world were to result in the release of the photos, those photos would be used by our enemies as a shrine for bin Laden, a rallying point for those who hate us. It would feed the vicious circle of hate and one-upsmanship that we should be trying to break.

And the release of photos would do nothing to help me remember 9/11. I was lucky that I didn't lose any family or friends, but one son was and still is a pilot for an airline based in Dallas. He lost comrades just as surely as the firefighters and the police did. Our other son was on his way to work in lower Manhattan, but stopped off at the NYU gym to work out. If he hadn't, who knows? And my wife was in an office building a block and a half from the White House, where the Shanksville plane may or may not have been headed (it was either there or the Capitol).

Most Americans have ties to 9/11, even if they're two or three degrees of separation away. Those who don't will still remember, and graphic death photos will do nothing to refresh memories that can never be dimmed.

Getting the job done in a workmanlike way and moving on to the next item on the agenda represents the best of who we are. Bombast and chest-thumping do not.
I believe that all Americans have ties to 9/11 no matter how many degrrees of seperation there are! It was an attack on America I dont understand your statement that some Americans dont have ties to 9/11.Some were affected more then others but we all have ties!As far as Bomast and chest-thumping go I would like to see the pictures for my self so why shouldnt we have the right to chose for are selfs.I also dont understand why people carry on with I could of been there I was a block and a half away. We all could of been there we all lost fellow Americans and we were all affected and we all have ties.It gets kind of old in this country when certain people try to tell you how to live your life dont read this book dont watch that move dont listen to that radio show dont look at that picture are freedoms are slowy being taken away!Pretty soon we will be a bunch of mindless drones doing what we are told and living are lives how were told to!Show the pictures !:
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Old May 7th, 2011, 11:48 AM
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our government can always release the photos at a much later time.once you let the cat out the bag, you can't put it back..I think everyone (including Fox), should step back and breathe...I suspect based upon the intelligence gathered at the raid, there might be some other terror threats/actions going on that the NSC is dealing with and the pictures might be used as a triggering device...

I doubt if there is anyone (maybe Kuki) that post on these boards is old enough to remember when we bombed Hiroshima during WW2 or when our troops liberated the death camps in Europe..watching the history channel and seeing the pictures makes me wonder what the reaction was of the American public (can you just imagine if we had 24/7 CNN/MSNBC/Fox cable coverage today during that time period), but at that point we had just about won in both theatres of war...we are not in that position with the war on terror..POTUS Obama siding on the reason of caution, is not the popular decision at the moment in some circles, but it's the right one IMHO , for our national security and peace of mind..there should not be one person alive that does not have a 99.9999999 % sense that OBL is dead..why does one need to see pictures (except maybe for Donald Trump)

I was watching the news that indicated that we just missed with a drone strike to getting the #3 guy
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Old May 7th, 2011, 12:19 PM
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Venice ,I am a lot older than Kuki and I was around when WWII ended .
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Old May 7th, 2011, 01:04 PM
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our government can always release the photos at a much later time.once you let the cat out the bag, you can't put it back..I think everyone (including Fox), should step back and breathe...I suspect based upon the intelligence gathered at the raid, there might be some other terror threats/actions going on that the NSC is dealing with and the pictures might be used as a triggering device...

I doubt if there is anyone (maybe Kuki) that post on these boards is old enough to remember when we bombed Hiroshima during WW2 or when our troops liberated the death camps in Europe..watching the history channel and seeing the pictures makes me wonder what the reaction was of the American public (can you just imagine if we had 24/7 CNN/MSNBC/Fox cable coverage today during that time period), but at that point we had just about won in both theatres of war...we are not in that position with the war on terror..POTUS Obama siding on the reason of caution, is not the popular decision at the moment in some circles, but it's the right one IMHO , for our national security and peace of mind..there should not be one person alive that does not have a 99.9999999 % sense that OBL is dead..why does one need to see pictures (except maybe for Donald Trump)

I was watching the news that indicated that we just missed with a drone strike to getting the #3 guy
Oh I beleive he is dead They went ahead and released pictures of his dead hinchmen! I didnt hear about anyone freaking out about those pictures!. And now they are going to release some of his home videos so we can see what life was like in the compound well isnt that sweet I hope it wasnt to unpleasant for him! Why are they releasing those videos I dont hear no one complaing about those! And how many people will take a little peak at that little jewells? Do we really need to know what his life was like who cares? .And in my IMHO I really dont think releasing a picture of this piece of trash dead is going to start any wars! I kind of think that most of the people in the terrorist world Already know that he is dead.Just how will it put are troops in danger ? Dont you think just the act of killing him would push these nuts over the edge? Or that they wouldnt care until they saw a picture? Show the picture we have the chose to look at every other picture they can digup!Freedom of chose .
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