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Lakers Fan June 1st, 2011 02:29 PM

Violent passengers
 
A story appeared on the network TV and radio stations this morning about 2 passengers fighting on an airplane because one pushed his seat all the way back without giving consideration to the guy seated behind him .

In 2008 we were on our way home from a cruise and boarded a plane in BC . The guy sitting directly in front of me pushed his seat back as far as it could go and nearly crushed my knees .At the time I was recovering from torn cartillage in my right knee and I literally screamed .I politely asked the guy if he could move his seat up a bit and he pushed down even harder .Then he got up and went to the bathroom .His wife sat in his seat and put her full body weight (about 300 pounds) and pushed the seat back against my knees .
I got up ,spoke to a flight attendant and she said the only thing she could do was to ask if another passenger would change seats with me and of course nobody volunteered . I spent nearly all of the 6 hour flight standing .
Coincidentally the man and his wife went to the same area as we did (after getting luggage) to hail a cab and I was able to hear his destination .
I filed a complaint with the airline but all they could do was to offer an apology .

My thinking is that if they could be so rude on an airline flight they probably would be just as rude on a cruise(we were all on the same cruise) .I hope I never see these people again.

Trip June 1st, 2011 05:21 PM

I heard that story as well,and both sides of the argument on morning tv..I never recline all the way, just enough to give me a slight slant. These guys took it to the extreme, as did your fellow flyers.


On my way to Spain last month I was fortunate to be sitting in business class. I walked on to see a configuration of seats unlike any other plane. 12 seats, in like a fiberglass shell with about 3 feet between you and the one in front of you. I watched as the man beside me across the aisle, used a remote control to make it into a bed! Buttons did everything to the seat but rub your feet:) I slept on my side as we flew over the ocean..Just wonderful.....no one reclining and annoying anyone ..it was a good thing.:)

johnthed0g June 1st, 2011 06:15 PM

I usually turn & say to the person behind "OK if I put the seat back?" Just common courtesy to ask, as it to say "That's fine" in reply. I don't subscribe to the view that the seat is meant to recline so I will.

Donna June 1st, 2011 06:20 PM

Gosh, what awful sounding people, yes, I bet they are the same way when at home/work, etc.

I was once on a flight with an abusive man, we made an unscheduled stop in Detroit on the way to O'hare to let him and his wife off the plane. They were actually escorted by federal marshalls. I just wonder how people can act so badly and never think of others??

anniegb June 1st, 2011 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry43 (Post 1374085)
A story appeared on the network TV and radio stations this morning about 2 passengers fighting on an airplane because one pushed his seat all the way back without giving consideration to the guy seated behind him .

In 2008 we were on our way home from a cruise and boarded a plane in BC . The guy sitting directly in front of me pushed his seat back as far as it could go and nearly crushed my knees .At the time I was recovering from torn cartillage in my right knee and I literally screamed .I politely asked the guy if he could move his seat up a bit and he pushed down even harder .Then he got up and went to the bathroom .His wife sat in his seat and put her full body weight (about 300 pounds) and pushed the seat back against my knees .
I got up ,spoke to a flight attendant and she said the only thing she could do was to ask if another passenger would change seats with me and of course nobody volunteered . I spent nearly all of the 6 hour flight standing .
Coincidentally the man and his wife went to the same area as we did (after getting luggage) to hail a cab and I was able to hear his destination .
I filed a complaint with the airline but all they could do was to offer an apology .

My thinking is that if they could be so rude on an airline flight they probably would be just as rude on a cruise(we were all on the same cruise) .I hope I never see these people again.

Henry - I am surprised at the lack of action by the aircrew.

Dec 09, I flew Dulles - AMS with an injured left wrist in great discomfort.

The purser identified the issue promptly, after take-off, gave me aircrew seats for a short period until she juggled the seating to give me 2 seats together with extra pillows etc. If all else failed - I would have had aircrew seats. I was also deplaned first, after business class, so I could avoid the crush - I had a quick connection to Glasgow.

The selfish acts of some people never fail to surprise me.

Annie

Lombard June 1st, 2011 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip (Post 1374101)
I heard that story as well,and both sides of the argument on morning tv..I never recline all the way, just enough to give me a slight slant. These guys took iut tio the extreme,as did your fellow flyer.


On my way to Spain last month I was fortunate to be sitting in business class. I walked on to see a configuration of seats unlike any other plane. 12 seats, in like a fiberglass shell with about 3 feet between you and the one in front of you. I watched as the man beside me across the aisle, used a remote control to make it into a bed! Buttons did everything to the seat but rub your feet:) I slept on my side as we flew over the ocean..Just wonderful.....no one reclining and annoying anyone ..it was a good thing.:)

I am always very reluctant to push my seat back at all when in economy class as I wouldn't like the same thing done to me.

As for international business class, it is a great thing these days as it doesn't affect anyone due to the seat configurations.

As I said in another thread there are not enough NICE people in this world these days.

venice June 1st, 2011 07:29 PM

there's got to be more to this story...it was an international flight from IAD to Ghana and F-16 fighters were scrambled to escort back to IAD...you don't dispatch fighters for a simple inflight disturbance

Cruznut2 June 1st, 2011 08:21 PM

Coming home from Los Angeles after a cruise the man in front of me did that. I asked several times for him to sit up. He just ignored me. I was unable to put my tray table down. When I got a glass of juice I had no choice but to sit there holding it until it was gone. Getting up to go to the rest room was impossible. I sat there for the whole flight from LA to Atlanta.

Laura

Trip June 1st, 2011 08:36 PM

Laura, continous kicks, might have made him sit up, or, perhaps some juice dribbling on his head.Next time:)

Cruznut2 June 1st, 2011 09:05 PM

Trip, I did that a few times. I tried uncrossing my legs and pushing on the seat back as I did so. Nothing worked. He was just plain rude.

Laura

Donna June 1st, 2011 09:06 PM

OK, a good ?.....how many of you put your seat back down? I personally never do, just to not make the passenger behind me have to deal with it...

Skipper's Mom June 1st, 2011 09:55 PM

If at all possible, I leave my seat in the upright position. At the very least, I adjust it as little as possible.

On one flight from San Juan to NYC, there were children in front of us and they were particularly annoying with their seats, etc. Their parents were oblivious to their bad behaviour and seemed to encourage it. Finally, my usually non-combative husband gave up and slammed the back of their seats to give them a warning.

We even complained to a flight attendant. The looks on the parents faces was memorable, however, they still did nothing to correct their children.

Manuel June 1st, 2011 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lombard (Post 1374118)
As I said in another thread there are not enough NICE people in this world these days.

I agree with you. That is why I do my best to be one of the nice ones.

TM

Trip June 1st, 2011 10:28 PM

Skippers Mom, I had a somewhat similar story, on my flight from San Juan to Boston. We had a kicker behind us,with an oblivious Mom. Her hubby and their other brat sat across the aisle from them. So, 2 oblivious parents saw their darling continuously kick our seats..Maybe I should have reclined all the way in this case, to make a point:(

The incredible lack of parenting, still bogles my mind. I adrdressed the issue with the flight attendant, and, she addressed the Mom, to no avail...A moron, yes she was...it kept up, and I was not about to deal with this the entire flight, or, till the little darling fell asleep,so I spoke up again....I was moved to business class for the duration, with the flight attendant shaking her head as well.

PS..things can get worse....
http://news.travel.aol.com/2011/06/0..._lnk1%7C214792

.

Cruznut2 June 2nd, 2011 04:42 AM

On a trip to Las Vegas I was Kicked all the way from Boston to Las Vegas. There were several families sitting around us on that trip. The mother with the future football star was sitting right behind me. I asked several times if she would control her child. I had hoped the little one would sleep but no such luck. To make matters worse the adults in this group were drinking quite a bit. they got louder and more obnoxious as the flight progressed. What a nightmare.

Laura

anniegb June 2nd, 2011 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna (Post 1374128)
OK, a good ?.....how many of you put your seat back down? I personally never do, just to not make the passenger behind me have to deal with it...

I am with you Donna - I never do.

Annie

anniegb June 2nd, 2011 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venice (Post 1374119)
there's got to be more to this story...it was an international flight from IAD to Ghana and F-16 fighters were scrambled to escort back to IAD...you don't dispatch fighters for a simple inflight disturbance


Venice - my thoughts as well.

Annie

anniegb June 2nd, 2011 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lombard (Post 1374118)
As I said in another thread there are not enough NICE people in this world these days.

Lombard - you surprise me - I thought I was the cynic.

I have to disagree - there are enough NICE people but more would not go amiss. :) I think we just don't pay them enough attention these days; the cynic in me partly blames the media - most of the stories they publish are 'negative' and I think a vicious cycle is created.

Annie

Luanne Russo June 2nd, 2011 08:03 AM

I was on my way to the states from Germany. I was 8 1/2 months pregnant, with a 10 month old. The man in front of me put his seat all the way back which touched my belly. I am the last person to call attention to myself, so I just dealt with it, until I had to go to the bathroom. I asked him to raise his seat, and told him why. He refused to do so, so unlike me, I said in a raised voice, "If you don't let me out, I will pee on you" He sat up, and the man across helped me get up. Since it is a 10 hour flight, I because the entertainment.

From then on, when I showed discomfort, everyone said "she's got to pee":D

Two men fighting on a plane, would scare me to death. It is so small an area to fight, and you never know when they might do something else.

venice June 2nd, 2011 10:56 PM

be sensitive to the fact that some small children are autistic and parents aren't always forthcoming about that and on a packed airplane on a long trip it could be challenging...usually the parents will say something to the flight attendants during the boarding process so that they are aware

as far as a grown man, I'm with Luanne..pee on him

Luanne Russo June 2nd, 2011 11:28 PM

I have great compassion for kids on a flight. Their ears hurt, they are scared, and they get bored. My 10 month old wanted to walk. He held on to his daddy's hand, and they walked up and down. But, I was always concerned about those who sat around us. No kicking the seat. No waking anyone up, etc.

This is bringing back lots of memories. Joe would be born in a few weeks, so he was all but born. Josh to keep himself busy would shake my stomach, and wake Joe up, which ladies you know, would make me have to go to the bathroom.:o He finally got ready to sleep. He was only happy when laying on my stomach between my baby bump, and my boobs. The man across the way was watching when Josh put his hands on each side of my boobs, and fluffed his pillows. I thought the man would fall out of his seat laughing.

Rev22:17 June 5th, 2011 07:55 PM

Henry43,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1374085)
A story appeared on the network TV and radio stations this morning about 2 passengers fighting on an airplane because one pushed his seat all the way back without giving consideration to the guy seated behind him .

In 2008 we were on our way home from a cruise and boarded a plane in BC . The guy sitting directly in front of me pushed his seat back as far as it could go and nearly crushed my knees .At the time I was recovering from torn cartillage in my right knee and I literally screamed .I politely asked the guy if he could move his seat up a bit and he pushed down even harder .Then he got up and went to the bathroom .His wife sat in his seat and put her full body weight (about 300 pounds) and pushed the seat back against my knees .
I got up ,spoke to a flight attendant and she said the only thing she could do was to ask if another passenger would change seats with me and of course nobody volunteered . I spent nearly all of the 6 hour flight standing .
Coincidentally the man and his wife went to the same area as we did (after getting luggage) to hail a cab and I was able to hear his destination .
I filed a complaint with the airline but all they could do was to offer an apology .

My thinking is that if they could be so rude on an airline flight they probably would be just as rude on a cruise(we were all on the same cruise) .I hope I never see these people again.

Yes, these people are rude and inconsiderate. Hire a lawyer and sue both them and the airline for rendering your seat unusable, and thus forcing you to stand, during the flight. Clearly, both crushing your knees and forcing you to stand for such a long period of flight inflicted pain and suffering, for which you deserve substantial compensation. A substantial award clearly will get enough media attention to cause other people who are so inconsiderate to think twice!

But fundamentally, the fault in this case rests with the airline. As a passenger, one expects that one should be able to use the features of one's seat, including the reclining mechanism, without causing discomfort or pain for other passengers. The airline simply should not install seats that allow a passenger to recline into another passenger's personal space. This means either (1) install seats that do not recline as far or (2) provide more space between seats.

That said, there's also a serious safety problem whenever a seat on an airplane, a train, or a bus reclines so far that a passenger of average size cannot get into and out of the seat directly behind it. This is clearly a matter in which the FAA should intervene. The rule should be that a seat on a common carrier cannot intersect a plane beyond a vertical plane one foot in front of the forward edge of the seat behind it, even when fully reclined.

Norm.

ToddDH June 5th, 2011 10:00 PM

You are absolutely right Norm.

Another more effective, albeit a tad drastic solution would probably generate even better results. Have someone on every flight a guy from Brooklyn with a name along the lines of Vincent "Vinnie the Beast" whose job would be to break both the offender's knees with a baseball bat. Betcha' if they did that one time, everyone on a every airplane in the world would sit there straight up as if they were in a Church pew!

As for suing, when was the last time anybody you ever knew successfully sued anyone associated with "The Outfit." Picture that!

Todd

Ron June 5th, 2011 11:31 PM

I try to be as considerate as I can be when I fly. I don't recline my seat but maybe a few inches and if it's an hour or hour and half flight, I wouldn't normally recline it hardly at all. I agree with Norm re/ the lawsuit but doubt you would get far. And too I agree with Todd, although his method of having "Vinnie " handle the situation would certainly put an end to the problem, it's impractical to break a leg, no matter how much you would like to! ;)
Only one time did I ever say anything to anyone on a plane and that was a few years ago. My wife and I were returning from Rio and the guy sitting behind her after about an hour into the flight slumped back in his seat and proceeded to put his feet on the back of my wife's seat and every little bit he would push and thrash with his feet, sometimes so hard her head would bounce. I put up with it for about an hour, hoping he would finally get tired in his position and change and take his feet of her seat back---no such luck. Finally, I told her to change seats with me. We did and no sooner had I had sat down he let go with a big thump and push against the back of my seat, causing my head to jerk. I undid my seat belt, turned around on my knees and pushed his feet off the eat. He looked up , all wide eyed and I gave him a big smile and motioned for him to lean close--he did and I asked if he spoke English---he said he did --I told him for 2 hours he had been battering the back of my wife's seat with his feet and that I had changed seats with her and I was not expecting to spend another 10 hours being jostled around by his feet and that if he didn't keep them off my seat, I would put my foot somewhere besides in his seat and did he understand that clearly? He said he did and that was that- no more problem. :)

A few days ago Kuki had a post re/ whether people ( cruisers ) were less sophisticated now than years ago. I said then and say now, it's just that so many people travel today than did several years ago, you have a bigger mix in the pot so you're bound to get more self-centered people who care nothing for their fellow travelers, whether on a ship, plane or bus.

And Luanne, I agree with you too that in a lot of cases the children have a hard time flying--their ears hurt, it's very uncomfortable for a small child to be confined in such tight quarters with little or no room to move about. That's hard on them and they respond in the only way they know how--they become squirmy, restless and cry. Many times the parents simply don't seem to have the good sense to properly handle the kids and offer help and comfort, all to the agitation of the child and other passengers.
Traveling today regardless of how or where, has changed folks! ;) ;)

Queen of Oakville June 6th, 2011 01:27 PM

I'm shocked to hear some of these stories. I can honestly say i've never been so inconvenienced on a plane. I've never found that the seats tilt back quite that much (of course my flight experiences is limited to Air Canada, West Jet, SW and NW).

Perhaps its only a problem if the person in front has enough weight to force the chair back?



I'm (somewhat) embarrassed to say that the only problem I've ever had was directed at me. It was a flight home from MCO. My daughter was almost 3 and my son was 18 months. They were particularly well behaved, if I do say so myself. I had their DVD and was playing Dora. They were too young to wear headphones, and so I had the volume up just enough so that I could barely hear it.

A woman came up to me from a few rows back and asked me to turn it down. I understand that sound carries differently especially in an aircraft and it is possible that what I could barely hear was too loud for her. What bothered me was the way she phrased her request, "I'd rather hear your kids scream than hear Dora" is what she snarled at me.

I was particularly bothered by her phrasing (almost willing me to make my kids cry); but I conced (without argument) and turned off the volume.

I am happy to say that, other than this incident, my kids have never bothered anyone. And If I did see them kicking the seatback, I would immediately stop them.

Rev22:17 June 9th, 2011 07:31 PM

Ron,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1374709)
I try to be as considerate as I can be when I fly. I don't recline my seat but maybe a few inches and if it's an hour or hour and half flight, I wouldn't normally recline it hardly at all. I agree with Norm re/ the lawsuit but doubt you would get far. And too I agree with Todd, although his method of having "Vinnie " handle the situation would certainly put an end to the problem, it's impractical to break a leg, no matter how much you would like to! ;)

I generally do not recline my seat when I fly. When I'm tired enough to doze off in flight, I despise being awakened by a flight attendant about a half hour before I really need to wake up just to put my seat back in the full upright position for landing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
And Luanne, I agree with you too that in a lot of cases the children have a hard time flying--their ears hurt, it's very uncomfortable for a small child to be confined in such tight quarters with little or no room to move about. That's hard on them and they respond in the only way they know how--they become squirmy, restless and cry. Many times the parents simply don't seem to have the good sense to properly handle the kids and offer help and comfort, all to the agitation of the child and other passengers.

When travelling with infants and toddlers, always give them a bottle or a "sippy cup" of water or juice during both ascent and descent. Swallowing the beverage relieves the pressure across their eardrums and thus eliminates the associated anguish.

For children who are a bit older, a piece of hard candy or a cough drop will work in the same way.

Norm.

Paul Motter June 10th, 2011 03:32 PM

Is there anything more irritating than the guy who the second the plane levels off after take off just slams his seatback into your face?

I will recline my seat, but often only partially. I almost always check to see who is behind me and if it is a tall guy I will not recline. I do know what they go through (there are sometimes advantages to being short).

The one that really bothers me though is the droner - the guy with a deep voice who can talk about parts for his mechanized ball bearing polishing assembly for four solid hours - obviously to a person who couldn't care less because they never interrupt him.

I often think this guy is sitting right behind me because his voice is low enough to even permeate my brand new ear plugs. Amazingly some people's voices will just carry a lot farther than others - and he might be four rows away.

Other than that not much bothers me on planes anymore - with my earplugs & eyeshades.

Except that every flight I am on runs out of the meal (hamburger) I want just before they get to me, so I am always stucks with "healthy habit" snacks like hummous and raisons.

Lakers Fan June 10th, 2011 07:23 PM

The airline provided me with the names of the passengers seated in front of me but I chose not to pursue the matter legally .

Rev22:17 June 14th, 2011 07:29 PM

Henry43,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1375520)
The airline provided me with the names of the passengers seated in front of me but I chose not to pursue the matter legally .

That's unfortuante. Without tangible consequences, they will just do it again to someone else.

But I also understand that a lawsuit could be costly.

Norm.

Lakers Fan June 14th, 2011 09:36 PM

My thinking is that to sue would be looked upon in the courts as a "nuisance" case .


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