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Old June 15th, 2011, 06:45 PM
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Default Princess Smoking Policy

So Princess has banned smoking in and on the verandas. As a non smoker I can see the cabins but I think itís unfair that you canít some on you balcony. Just like New York you will be ticketed if you smoke in the park and I know they want to implement it in Time Square as well. If this continues they need to just make it illegal to smoke and stop making million on the taxes of the sale of cigarettes. Like I said Iím not a smoker and donít like being around it but itís not illegal to smoke. Maybe the ship's shouldn't sell them either.
As a side note I smell something else more often than I smell cigarettes
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Old June 15th, 2011, 07:47 PM
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I think it's awesome. Princess's main competitor is Celebrity and Celebrity has the same policy. I hear more complaining about smoking on a balcony than I do in a room so it makes perfect sense. If you want to smoke on your deck, cruise HAL.
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Old June 15th, 2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Trackypup View Post
I think it's awesome. Princess's main competitor is Celebrity and Celebrity has the same policy. I hear more complaining about smoking on a balcony than I do in a room so it makes perfect sense. If you want to smoke on your deck, cruise HAL.
You can still smoke on your balcony on Carnival. Like I said I don't like to be around it but on the balcony with the wind I'm ok with it. I smell more pot then cigarettes
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Old June 16th, 2011, 10:11 PM
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Aerogirl,

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So Princess has banned smoking in and on the verandas. As a non smoker I can see the cabins but I think itís unfair that you canít some on you balcony. Just like New York you will be ticketed if you smoke in the park and I know they want to implement it in Time Square as well. If this continues they need to just make it illegal to smoke and stop making million on the taxes of the sale of cigarettes. Like I said Iím not a smoker and donít like being around it but itís not illegal to smoke. Maybe the ship's shouldn't sell them either.
As a side note I smell something else more often than I smell cigarettes
There seem to be two issues here.

>> 1. Smoke easily blows from one balcony to the next, so smoking on a balcony can make life very unpleasant for non-smokers in the next cabin who want to use their balcony at the same time.

>> 2. A few years ago, MV Star Princess had a bad fire (photos) that took out over half of the balcones on her port side, forcing early termination of a cruise and cancellation of several more. At the time, investigators identified improper discarding of smoking matierals as one possible source of ignition. If passengers throw hot matches or cigarette butts that are not fully extinguished overboard, the wind can blow them back into a vessel and start a fire like this.

In consideration of both of other passengers and safety of the vessel, every cruise line should forbid smoking on balconies.

Norm.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 06:56 AM
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No ship should be built with flammable materials where the public is, what were they thinking? I understand that was part of the problem! Think about it, no ship, moving, should burn like that!!
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Old June 17th, 2011, 01:27 PM
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People would have to do some pretty heavy smoking in order for the smoke to just linger around with all the wind on the balcony. I hate smoke but it blows away so quick it's no big deal.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ruthlessboss View Post
No ship should be built with flammable materials where the public is, what were they thinking? I understand that was part of the problem! Think about it, no ship, moving, should burn like that!!
Paint is flamable
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Old June 17th, 2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by green_rd View Post
Paint is flamable
If ships are painted, I'm sure many more ship fires would have occurred.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 06:27 PM
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ruthlessboss,

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Originally Posted by You View Post
No ship should be built with flammable materials where the public is, what were they thinking? I understand that was part of the problem! Think about it, no ship, moving, should burn like that!!
It's not clear what actually ignited in the fire aboard MV Star Princess. The balconies are right above the boat davits, where there are fuel lines to refuel the ship's boats, so boat fuel is a clear possibility. There was also some speculation that towels left on a balcony might have been what ignited initially, but this seems a lot less likely.

Some petroleum-based fuels burn at temperatures hot enough to melt steel, and all metals will burn if they get hot enough. This would explain deformation of the decks of the balconies in the affected area.

Also, as another poster pointed out in a separate response, the paint on the exterior of the ship can burn, giving a charred appearance to a very large area even though the actual structure might be intact, making the damage look far worse than it actually was.

That said, the investigation of the fire aboard MV Star Princess uncovered two significant deficiencies in Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) treaty. Subsequent modifications to the SOLAS treaty have corrected both of these omissions.

>> 1. The facings of the balconies, which were not structural, were a translucent plastic that could not come close to withstand the the fire. Such materials are now forbidden.

>> 2. There wre no fire suppression systems in the balcony areas. Fire suppression systems are now mandatory in these areas.

Princess Cruises remedied both of these deficiencies aboard MV Star Princess during repairs after the fire, and subsequently modified all other vessels with the same deficiencies during their next yard visits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
If ships are painted, I'm sure many more ship fires would have occurred.
There have been more shipboard fires than any of us would care to count. When the safety announcement at the beginning of a cruise says not to throw smoking materials overboard because they can blow back into the ship and start a fire, there's a reason why.

Norm.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 01:12 AM
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The balconies on Princess Ships - like most other cruise lines - are constructed primarily of aluminum.
Aluminum is flammable at a relatively low temperature.
The structure of the Star Princess balconies literally burned and melted off the ship.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 09:19 PM
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I have never seen those photos before or heard anything about this fire was anyone hurt? What a nightmare that would of been to be on that ship when that happened!
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Old June 30th, 2011, 06:47 PM
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Dhill,

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I have never seen those photos before or heard anything about this fire was anyone hurt?
Not by the fire. IIRC, there was one passenger who panicked and had a heart attack upon seeing the fire, but the fire did not actually cause it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
What a nightmare that would of been to be on that ship when that happened!
Well, in so far as most of us would be quite bored if forced to hang out in our assigned muster stations for several hours while the ship's fire parties extinquish a fire like that one.

That fire, fortunately, did not pose a danger to any of the ship's muster stations, so the passengers were fairly comfortable. Nonetheless, one cannot discount the danger posed by a fire that engulfs a ship. There is simply nowhere to escape, except in the ship's lifeboats.

Norm.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
Dhill,



Not by the fire. IIRC, there was one passenger who panicked and had a heart attack upon seeing the fire, but the fire did not actually cause it.



Well, in so far as most of us would be quite bored if forced to hang out in our assigned muster stations for several hours while the ship's fire parties extinquish a fire like that one.

That fire, fortunately, did not pose a danger to any of the ship's muster stations, so the passengers were fairly comfortable. Nonetheless, one cannot discount the danger posed by a fire that engulfs a ship. There is simply nowhere to escape, except in the ship's lifeboats.

Norm.
I would think that any fire on a ship would be poseing a danger to everyone and everything on board
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Old June 30th, 2011, 07:54 PM
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I would think that any fire on a ship would be poseing a danger to everyone and everything on board
On the 23 cruise ships I have managed over the past 30 years, we have had one or more fires onboard nearly every week.
They usually occur in the predictable places; engine room, galley, incinerator room, laundry.
On very rare occasions they happen in crew cabins, and relatively more often in passenger cabins.
The majority of passenger cabin fires are caused by irons, hair curlers, candles, and incense.
Most fires on ships are so small that they are extinguished with the equivalent of a glass of water.
Most fires on ships are not even reported to the passengers, because they are so insignificant that it is not worth waking up passengers at night, or disturbing their Bingo game to tell them about it.
Do they pose a danger to everyone on board?
Technically, yes they do.

So how many passengers have been killed by fires on cruise ships?
Actually, very few.

In the past 100 years, far more people were killed by shark attacks than by ship fires.
Last year alone, just in America, far more people were killed by riding lawn mowers than all the people killed worldwide by passenger ship fires in all of recorded history.

Should we still be concerned about fire on cruise ships?
Absolutely.

But by putting risk into logical perspective, we might worry just a bit more about the dangers of swimming in the ocean and mowing our lawns.
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Old July 1st, 2011, 06:27 PM
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Bruce,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
On the 23 cruise ships I have managed over the past 30 years, we have had one or more fires onboard nearly every week.
They usually occur in the predictable places; engine room, galley, incinerator room, laundry.
On very rare occasions they happen in crew cabins, and relatively more often in passenger cabins.
The majority of passenger cabin fires are caused by irons, hair curlers, candles, and incense.
Most fires on ships are so small that they are extinguished with the equivalent of a glass of water.
Most fires on ships are not even reported to the passengers, because they are so insignificant that it is not worth waking up passengers at night, or disturbing their Bingo game to tell them about it.
Do they pose a danger to everyone on board?
Technically, yes they do.

So how many passengers have been killed by fires on cruise ships?
Actually, very few.

In the past 100 years, far more people were killed by shark attacks than by ship fires.
Last year alone, just in America, far more people were killed by riding lawn mowers than all the people killed worldwide by passenger ship fires in all of recorded history.

Should we still be concerned about fire on cruise ships?
Absolutely.

But by putting risk into logical perspective, we might worry just a bit more about the dangers of swimming in the ocean and mowing our lawns.
Well, yes and no.

When I was young, my dad noticed a neighbor a year older than me standing next to the street crying while on the way home from one of my little league games. He stopped, and we asked her what was wrong. She answered that the mother diagonally across the street from us accidently had run over her son with a "sit and ride" lawnmower, killing the son. When we arrived home, my mother -- who had called for an ambulance while the mother held the son's head together, blood dripping on our back walk -- was obviously quite shaken by the incident. Apparently the mother had turned her head to tell her daughter to stay away from the lawnmower and thus did not see her son run in front of it.

But I also have very vivid memories of the burned out hulk of the SS Jagat Padmini after fire crews from USS South Carolina (CGN-37) put out a fire that had started in her engine room and engulfed the whole ship, up to the bridge, during a midshipman cruise aboard USS California (CG-36). With nowhere else to go, most of the crew of the hulk was in the water when our "kid sister" arrived on the scene.

Safety at sea requires constant attention to detail -- and I do mean every detail. The sea is often very unforgiving, and those who neglect the persnickety details of safety often pay the ultimate price.

I'm reminded of a poster depicting a fairly large open safety pin bearing the words, "Safety first. Get the point?"

Yes, that's exactly what is necessary!

Norm.
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Old July 1st, 2011, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
Bruce,



Well, yes and no.

When I was young, my dad noticed a neighbor a year older than me standing next to the street crying while on the way home from one of my little league games. He stopped, and we asked her what was wrong. She answered that the mother diagonally across the street from us accidently had run over her son with a "sit and ride" lawnmower, killing the son. When we arrived home, my mother -- who had called for an ambulance while the mother held the son's head together, blood dripping on our back walk -- was obviously quite shaken by the incident. Apparently the mother had turned her head to tell her daughter to stay away from the lawnmower and thus did not see her son run in front of it.

But I also have very vivid memories of the burned out hulk of the SS Jagat Padmini after fire crews from USS South Carolina (CGN-37) put out a fire that had started in her engine room and engulfed the whole ship, up to the bridge, during a midshipman cruise aboard USS California (CG-36). With nowhere else to go, most of the crew of the hulk was in the water when our "kid sister" arrived on the scene.

Safety at sea requires constant attention to detail -- and I do mean every detail. The sea is often very unforgiving, and those who neglect the persnickety details of safety often pay the ultimate price.

I'm reminded of a poster depicting a fairly large open safety pin bearing the words, "Safety first. Get the point?"

Yes, that's exactly what is necessary!

Norm.
As you pointed out, the ship fire started in the Engine Room. The greatest number of fires at sea - especially serious fires - start in the engine room.

But there is absolutely No Smoking allowed in the engine rooms on all ships. Anyone caught smoking in the engine room of a cruise ship would lose his job - and end his career - immediately.

Please bear in mind that I have never smoked, and never will. I have no good reason to like or support smoking or smokers. The biggest pain in my life is listening to hundreds of passengers every week complaining to me about smokers and smoking.

Now getting back to the title and subject of this thread; "Princess Smoking Policy". Prohibiting smoking on ships would no doubt make the ships a bit safer from fire. But nobody reading this message will be able to cite a single case where a cigarette on a ship started a fire that killed or even seriously burned somebody.

Shouldn't we all be worrying a bit more about things that really do harm and kill people ?
As of January 2011, the US Government reports that the single biggest killer of Americans is obesity related diseases. All types of cancer - including the cancers caused by smoking - are now in distant second place.

What are most cruise passengers doing more of than anything else every minute of every day?
Stuffing their pie holes, and joking about how much weight they are gaining on this cruise.
This is truly dangerous. I have people dropping dead on my ship nearly every week.
The causes, nearly every time?
Heart attacks and strokes related to obesity.
We never find any burn marks on the corpses we keep in our onboard morgue.

We really need to re-assign our priorities when we think about safety and death.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
As you pointed out, the ship fire started in the Engine Room. The greatest number of fires at sea - especially serious fires - start in the engine room.

But there is absolutely No Smoking allowed in the engine rooms on all ships. Anyone caught smoking in the engine room of a cruise ship would lose his job - and end his career - immediately.

Please bear in mind that I have never smoked, and never will. I have no good reason to like or support smoking or smokers. The biggest pain in my life is listening to hundreds of passengers every week complaining to me about smokers and smoking.

Now getting back to the title and subject of this thread; "Princess Smoking Policy". Prohibiting smoking on ships would no doubt make the ships a bit safer from fire. But nobody reading this message will be able to cite a single case where a cigarette on a ship started a fire that killed or even seriously burned somebody.

Shouldn't we all be worrying a bit more about things that really do harm and kill people ?
As of January 2011, the US Government reports that the single biggest killer of Americans is obesity related diseases. All types of cancer - including the cancers caused by smoking - are now in distant second place.

What are most cruise passengers doing more of than anything else every minute of every day?
Stuffing their pie holes, and joking about how much weight they are gaining on this cruise.
This is truly dangerous. I have people dropping dead on my ship nearly every week.
The causes, nearly every time?
Heart attacks and strokes related to obesity.
We never find any burn marks on the corpses we keep in our onboard morgue.

We really need to re-assign our priorities when we think about safety and death.
I fought 37 major fires during my navy years. Several were started by cigarettes improperly extinguished by careless smokers. Most were in engineering spaces. Some were in berthing. One engulfed the Mess Deck and trapped about two dozen sailors in the forward engine room while we were tied to a pier. Ships are steel coffins loaded with flammable objects, floating in water...

I was on the USS South Carolina during that rescue mission. The press releases don't mention the man who died on the freighter, horribly burned to death. They also don't mention the Russian destroyer that was circling the burning freighter for many hours before we arrived, waiting for them to abandon ship before providing assistance. (Possibly to permit salvage?) They donít mention the helicopter we lost and the subsequent need to rescue its crew.

More than 30 years later I still get willies from what I saw when we first arrived. The crew was huddled on the weather deck at the front of the ship and had been for so long that many were suffering from exposure. To them, the end of the world consisted of a burning hell of flames not more than 100 feet away. Making it worse: It was dark and raining in abeam seas with high wind.

I learned many things from this episode.
>Every fire is a major fire when you are the one who might get burned.
>You always consider the unpleasant possibility of abandoning ship in the middle of the ocean while fighting a fire on a ship.
>Death by fire is one of the most horrible ways to end a life.

I don't smoke, never have. I have asthma and other respiratory issues. Yet, I would never consider legislating or regulating to restrict the ability of another person to smoke on a cruise ship--knowing the potential deadly consequences--after the government receives tax revenue for selling cigarettes to that person. The proper term is for this is hypocrisy. On the other hand, I believe the death penalty is appropriate for anyone tried and convicted of starting a fire on a ship, regardless of who/how many perish.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:53 PM
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Exclamation Smoking update policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogirl View Post
So Princess has banned smoking in and on the verandas. As a non smoker I can see the cabins but I think itís unfair that you canít some on you balcony. Just like New York you will be ticketed if you smoke in the park and I know they want to implement it in Time Square as well. If this continues they need to just make it illegal to smoke and stop making million on the taxes of the sale of cigarettes. Like I said Iím not a smoker and donít like being around it but itís not illegal to smoke. Maybe the ship's shouldn't sell them either.
As a side note I smell something else more often than I smell cigarettes
Stateroom Smoking Policy Update

For all voyages departing after January 15th, 2012, Princess Cruises will prohibit smoking in passenger staterooms and balconies. This policy change reflects the preferences of a vast majority of our passengers who value having their primary living space (both stateroom and balcony) smoke-free. As balconies are a hallmark of Princess Cruises, we believe it is important to keep this peaceful space clear of smoke. Violations to this policy will result in a$250 fine for each occurrence, which will be charged to the passengerís stateroom account. Keeping with the global trend toward more restrictive smoking policies and honoring the wishes of our passengers, we feel this change will enhance our onboard experience and do more to help our passengers escape completely.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogirl View Post
So Princess has banned smoking in and on the verandas. As a non smoker I can see the cabins but I think itís unfair that you canít some on you balcony. Just like New York you will be ticketed if you smoke in the park and I know they want to implement it in Time Square as well. If this continues they need to just make it illegal to smoke and stop making million on the taxes of the sale of cigarettes. Like I said Iím not a smoker and donít like being around it but itís not illegal to smoke. Maybe the ship's shouldn't sell them either.
As a side note I smell something else more often than I smell cigarettes
I agree that if a cruise line prohibits smoking in cabins/balconies they should not be selling cigarettes. Banning smoking but making money by selling cigarettes is wrong. I also agree that instead of continually increasing taxes on smokers and keeping it legal is wrong. If smoking is so bad (and it is) outlaw it outright instead of keeping it legal and making money on it.

I quit smoking shortly after my first cruise years ago and smoke doesn't bother me. But I got a taste of what it must be like for people who don't like/can't tolerate smoke on my last cruise. On each side of my cabin the two next cabins in each direction had smokers (my next door neighbors were cigar smokers) and the cabin above mine had smokers. When in port where there wasn't much wind the area was heavy with smoke at times. It didn't keep me from using my balcony but I could see where people who don't like/can't tolerate smoke would have been miserable.
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