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Old July 23rd, 2011, 09:24 PM
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Default Guilty of felony stupidity?

Remember the moron that dropped the anchor on a moving HAL ship?

Lawyer for cruiser who released ship anchor: 'Where's the crime?' - USATODAY.com
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Old July 24th, 2011, 06:01 AM
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I tend to think that he wasn't actually trying to destroy the ship, just drunk & stupid. They say that being drunk is no excuse, but if you do something when under the influence that you would not normally do sober there must be some sort of allowances made.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
I tend to think that he wasn't actually trying to destroy the ship, just drunk & stupid. They say that being drunk is no excuse, but if you do something when under the influence that you would not normally do sober there must be some sort of allowances made.


Sorry, I totally disagree. If you get behind the wheel of a car while your under the influence, drive home and manage not to kill someone, does that make it O.K.? People have to held responsible for their actions IMO.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 08:58 AM
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It doesn't matter whether your drunk or sober . The consequences for

your actions should be the same . If this fly's I can see drunk drivers

trying to use the same defense. If you do the crime you should do the

crime whether drunk or sober.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 09:16 AM
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He commited the crime, so he should serve the time. :evil:

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Old July 24th, 2011, 12:19 PM
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Exclamation Stupidity and alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
I tend to think that he wasn't actually trying to destroy the ship, just drunk & stupid. They say that being drunk is no excuse, but if you do something when under the influence that you would not normally do sober there must be some sort of allowances made.
WHAT?

Give a bit of thought to what you are saying. It makes no sense whatsoever.

The first stupid act is voluntarily getting drunk. Having, by choice, committed that act, you have full and complete responsibility for any further actions.

However I must say if I am ever accused of a crime, I want that lawyer on my side! Amazingly enough he may find a jury that "makes some sort of allowance."
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Old July 24th, 2011, 12:23 PM
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If that defense is accepted by a jury or judge

Can a man who is drunk or on drugs and kills his wife be set free?
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Old July 24th, 2011, 04:05 PM
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I didn't say they should get away with it or be set free, I think driving a car or killing someone is a bit different to a drunken prank gone wrong.
Mind you I have wondered about this angle, people do things when the balance of their mind is disturbed or affected in some way...should you be held TOTALLY responsible in that case?
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Old July 24th, 2011, 04:47 PM
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I am not an attorney but I was a Police Instructor who taught criminal law. In this country, the most important word in criminal law is the word "reasonable." "Reasonable" is defined in criminal law as, What the average thinking individual would do in like or similar circumstances." Being drunk is no defense to criminal behavior simply because, as one cruiser posted, no one got him drunk, he did so of his own volition.

Number two, he did commit a crime for not only the "Breaking and Entering" but he also committed a crime by dropping an anchor on a ship at speed, an act that could have resulted in death or serious physical injury.

Twenty years? Hardly! There's no way the guy if found guilty is going to get twenty years regardless of how one feels. But should he be convicted? I'd vote "Yes" based soley on his own attorney's statement in that he never denied his client committed the offense, in fact, he all ubt actually admitted it. In such a case, the "Where's the crime?" comment has got to be an award winner in the annual "Stupidist lawyer statements."

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Old July 24th, 2011, 05:22 PM
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The bit I have difficulty with is ...OK nobody other than yourself gets you drunk...yep...you are then guilty of being drunk. Once drunk, however caused, your mind is no longer your own...just a thought.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 08:07 PM
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John,

In a strange way, you actually have a point, but let's play your point out. Knowing alcohol will make you drunk if you drink too much (and this guy evidently is 44 so I'd, as we say over her, "Bet the farm!" that this is certainly not the first time he became intoxicated), lets draw this out to a logical conclusion (keeping in mind that all important word, "reasonable" as defined by American Law).

Any reasonable person knows he/she could get drunk if they drank alcohol to excess and being fully cognizant that drunks often do very dangerous things, why then, did he obviously drink heavily in the first place?

Of course if someone put a gun to his head and said, "Drink this or else!", it might be a different story. Somehow though, I just don't think that happened.

Maybe I'm too old fashioned, but I've always believed in, "accountability for for one's actions" unless they were adjudicated to be a mental defective, in which case, they would probably be institutionalized in a facility far less severe than a prison (the guy who tried to assassinate President Reagan being a primary example).

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Old July 25th, 2011, 06:20 AM
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It is quite an interesting one to pan out....you have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner..nothing much....but this amount would legally impair judgment as far as driving goes...so any more after that was when your judgment was unsound??? As a friend of mine once said after being arrested for being over the limit...."Hic... they never would have caught me if I wasn't pissed!!"
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Old July 25th, 2011, 10:58 AM
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In one of my several careers, I was a state legislator for 12 years, the first 4 of which were on the criminal justice committe. At the time our legal alcohol limit was 0.10, and a bill came before us to lower it to 0.08. The state police offered to drive us all up to the skid pan in Concord, and let us drive a test course in various stages of inebriation, then take us home.

Let me assure you, "a couple glasses of wine with dinner" is not going to put anyone anywhere near over the limit unless (a) you slugged them both down quickly at the end of the meal, (b) weigh less than 100 pounds, (c) ignored the sensation of feeling "happy" and (d) hopped in your car within a few minutes.

We had committee members ranging in age from 21 to over 70, male and female, and all of us voluntarily quit before we reached 0.08. I felt unfit to drive at 0.05 even though at that level I didn't hit any cones. I did significantly slow down, though.
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Old July 25th, 2011, 11:36 AM
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Question Stupid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
In such a case, the "Where's the crime?" comment has got to be an award winner in the annual "Stupidist lawyer statements."
Or "shrewdest lawyer statements."

He may actually get one juror to believe it. That's all it takes. If the shrewdest lawyer manages to get to the stupidest juror, he has done his job.
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Old July 25th, 2011, 11:41 AM
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I didn't read the article, but I can see from an earlier post, that there was a B&E which took place.

My query is doesn't HAL hold some responsibility for security? If a drunk fool can B&E and figure out how to drop the anchor .... what does that say about HAL security?
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Old July 25th, 2011, 11:47 AM
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Merced Mike,

You're quite right regarding a verdict in the Federal System (where this trial if held, will probably occur) and all states excluding two, Louisiana and Oregon. A death penalty phase I believe requires a unanimous verdict everywhere but I could be wrong on that.

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Old July 25th, 2011, 11:49 AM
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Queen of Oakville,

I strongly agree with your post above as regards sufficient security. Such an area should be secured in such a manner as it couldn't be broken into by nothing more than a drunk. Matter of fact, it should be one of the most secured areas on the ship.

Todd
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Old July 25th, 2011, 05:40 PM
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johnthed0g,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
I tend to think that he wasn't actually trying to destroy the ship, just drunk & stupid. They say that being drunk is no excuse, but if you do something when under the influence that you would not normally do sober there must be some sort of allowances made.
No. Anybody who chooses to drink in excess must bear full responsibility for what happens as a result of that choice. The only circumstance under which "there must be some sort of allowance made" is if somebody forced the person to drink alcoholic beverages against his or her wishes, either by physical restraint or by grave fear, or added alcohol to the person's beverage without the person's knowledge.

Norm.
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Old July 25th, 2011, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sistersolo View Post
Let me assure you, "a couple glasses of wine with dinner" is not going to put anyone anywhere near over the limit unless (a) you slugged them both down quickly at the end of the meal, (b) weigh less than 100 pounds, (c) ignored the sensation of feeling "happy" and (d) hopped in your car within a few minutes.
Well I can assure you that you would not pass the UK drink driving law if you drove the car after two glasses of wine, depending on the measure, that is half to two thirds of a bottle.
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Old July 25th, 2011, 11:19 PM
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Speaking of wine, John, when I was young I was somewhat of a wine connoisseur. I could tell you the date on any bottle of Ripple or Mad Dog 20-20!! Drink a few bottles of those and you wouldn't have to worry about driving unless of course, you crawled to the car.

In truth, my late zygotic identical twin was truely a wine connoisseur. He could take a taste of virtually anything and tell you not only the type and brand but the year it was bottled. Though I tried dozens of times, I never confused him. He just had a knack for it I guess. But then again he dropped dead two days after our 46th birthday in '93. Guess it finally caught up with him.

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