Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > People > Chit - Chat for Cruisers
Register Forgot Password?

Chit - Chat for Cruisers Open Forum for non-cruise posts. Please refrain from inflammatory rhetoric that could be considered offensive. We reserve the right to edit or delete for any reason.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old August 4th, 2011, 11:40 AM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,473
Default (Renamed) What does the country need to do?

Every morning I search for something in the news to completely depress me. Not hard to find these days. Today it was actually two items, both concerning the state of Alabama, which taken together define the hypocrisy that is rampant in the land.

First comes the quote from Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions on CNN two nights ago. . ."I think the Tea Party movement represented a spontaneous American expression of shock and concern over the spending that was going on in Washington."

Then comes the news this morning that Alabama leads the nation in the percentage of citizens who recieve "government nutritional assistance." I believe that is newspeak for food stamps. That number is a staggering 36%.

If there is any better evidence of the disconnect between what people say they believe and what they do in real life, I've yet to see it.

There is no redder state than Alabama. Senators Shelby and Sessions are two of the most hard line conservatives there today. The Alabama House delegation of seven features six Republicans, at least one of which is a card-carrying Tea Party member. All six Republicans are white, five of them men. The lone Democrat is a black woman. Republican Governor Bentley spoke at a church right after his inauguration in January and said that those who have not accepted Christ as their personal Savior "are not my brothers and sisters." Later, on advice of PR staff, he apologized, said he meant no harm. He said he was governor of all the people (but he didn't say they were all his brothers and sisters).

And yet, in this cradle of conservatism, 36% of the citizens are on government nutritional assistance.

There are some obvious questions here, and I'm sure Venice will ask at least one of them. But there is also the amazing level of willful blindness that leads us into our comfortable, low-tax world despite what's happening to the people next door.

That is disturbing.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old August 4th, 2011, 06:50 PM
Marc's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 3,613
Default

AR, if you don't like Alabama, go to Hell Norway or somewhere else.

The reason that Alabama reported a high SNAP (Food stampts) this month is that the program also pays for meal subsistence after natural disasters. The data was for May, shortly after the tornado outbreak of 27 April. Over 250 people were killed and thousands of homes and businesses destroyed. Also, most people in Northern Alabama had no power for at least four days which meant that a lot of food was thrown away.

Check your facts before you start picking on one of the finest states in the USA. Here is the explanation from CNN:

Quote:
But a spike in food stamp users in Alabama may have been responsible for pushing total usage unusually higher in May. Following a series of devastating storms, many residents received disaster assistance under the Disaster Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, the USDA said. Food stamp use in the state surged from 868,813 in April to 1,762,481 in May.
"USDA does not anticipate that trend of increase to continue, given that it appears to represent a response to a single disaster," the USDA said.
I noticed that Huffpost didn't provide the explanation; I am not surprised
BTW, here is a report on the longest EF-5 tornado path; I feel very lucky that it missed my house by less than three miles.

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/05/...tion_ef-5.html
__________________
Marc

"The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

F Scott Fitzgerald

Silversea Silver Explorer (23nts) - Kangerlussuaq, Greenland - Nome, Alaska - Aug 14

Seven Seas Voyager (30nts) - Dubai - Cape Town - Nov 14

Last edited by Marc; August 4th, 2011 at 07:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old August 4th, 2011, 08:33 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: new orleans, la
Posts: 7,074
Default

AR..everyday I look for something in the news that is positive and reaffirms my belief that Americans can work together regardless of race, creed or political affiliation (some days it's tough but I manage)..but for comic relief I look for examples of hypocrisy(much easier to find) and always end my day by watching "The Daily Show" which excels in pointing that out

Marc..glad the tornado missed your home..it did so much damage to so many folks and I think our neck of the woods has seen enough of Mother Nature's bad side to last us a lifetime...are you a native of Alabama ?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old August 4th, 2011, 09:03 PM
Marc's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 3,613
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice View Post
are you a native of Alabama ?
Nope; and, first time I lived in Alabama (Montgomery), I didn't care for it. I was actually born in Georgia, grew up in California, and have lived in Chicago, Boston, and Colorado Springs in addition to long stints in Virginia (DC) and Florida.

I think Huntsville has one of the highest percentages of PhD's in the country (lots of rocket scientists). Been that way since the 1950s.

By choice, I now limit my choice of residences to Right to Work states; looking at retirement in Tennessee.

If AR wanted to pick on the fact that Alabama and Mississippi are two most obese states in the Country; I would have had to agree. I can tell you the reason in two words - "sweet tea." Probably adds 10 lbs a year.
__________________
Marc

"The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

F Scott Fitzgerald

Silversea Silver Explorer (23nts) - Kangerlussuaq, Greenland - Nome, Alaska - Aug 14

Seven Seas Voyager (30nts) - Dubai - Cape Town - Nov 14
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old August 4th, 2011, 11:08 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Greeneville, Tennessee
Posts: 4,524
Default

Forget about politics. Every political person is to blame, from George Bush to Barack Obama to both houses of Congress.

We must cut spending, period! We have gone on an orgy of spending that we can't even begin to afford.

Everyone is going to have to cut back from the wealthy to the poor. Entitlements to Defense and everything in between is included. the "Tax the Rich" claim cracks me up. Should the rich pay more? Probably so but it wouldn't even begin to solve the problem. If eveyone who paid taxes were to have those taxes applied to the current national debt, it might pay a month's worth! Our debt is astronomical as to be beyond the comprehension of the average American.

The new Health care plan is a perfect example. There is no way on God's Green Earth that when the people learn what it will actually entail, would ever tolerate it. I about fell off my chair when Nancy Pelosi made the comment that, "We'll pass it,then we'll read it!"

The American people are not stupid (contrary to what Congress would lead one to believe). They're scared to death and rightfully so.

What is the answer? Far be it from me to say. I shall say, however, that there has to be a way we can cut back and still help the truly needy! that doesn't mean "Cadilllac coverage that the average American worker can't afford."" It also doesn't mean government controlled health care (which has not worked to the extent that the average American would ever acquiesce).

All it take is something that has been long lacking in government, and that is basic common sense!

Todd

Last edited by ToddDH; August 4th, 2011 at 11:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2011, 02:23 AM
Kuki's Avatar
Moderator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Right here :)
Posts: 22,384
Send a message via AIM to Kuki
Default

$1.3 TRILLION of wealth was lost today alone, proving the goverments inability to think in any manner resembling thinking of the good of the people, and then leaving for vacation, shows a nation out of control because of polarity.

Everyone who says they are already paying too much tax, just paid more today, with no benefits. If "the market" continues to crumble, those rich won't be so rich anymore, and could be left wishing they'd paid more of that into the tax system, to help create at least an illusion of stability.

Interestingly I read today that the Canadian government is likely to end this year with a buget surplus. A large part of the reason for that is Canadians pay substantially more taxes than those in the United States (and have for some time).

America as a nation will also never willingly accept the dramatic drop in their "standard of living" it would require to pay off the debt they've recklessly accumulated.

I'm no economist. But, I do know the answer, if there is one, is very complicated, and finding it requires much more than common sense. It requires a collective will.
__________________
C U @ C,
Kuki
CruiseMates' Staff Writer
- The Kuki Side of Cruising-
A new Blog post every Wednesday
http://www.cruisemates.com/blog/author/kuki/
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2011, 06:35 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: new orleans, la
Posts: 7,074
Default

Marc...I thought that you had lived in various parts of the Country (like I have), which brings a somewhat different perspective to where we live now..on most surveys regarding quality of life issues..Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana always seem to rank at the very bottom..it always amazes me that the International Association of Cardiologist hold their annual convention in New Orleans because they love the unhealthy food

Todd..with close to 50M Americans without adequate or any health insurance it will take a collective will to solve it..private health insurance carriers hang up the phone on you if you say 'pre existing conditions" and with so many people being out of work and taking longer (more then 6 months ) to find a job, even if you find one with group health insurance coverage, the exclusion clause comes into play..of course Americans have to take better care of ourselves at a younger age..it has to be a combination of insurance companies working in partnership with the government..special interest seems to preclude that

Kuki...my parents taught me to always live below my means ..if more Americans did that, it could be a start
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2011, 10:01 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuki View Post
$
I'm no economist. But, I do know the answer, if there is one, is very complicated, and finding it requires much more than common sense. It requires a collective will.
Kuki, I think that you would make a good economist.

And you are quite correct, as someone said, ( a house divided against itself cannot stand).

TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence of the Seas 12/29/2013 Top-notch!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2011, 12:18 PM
Paul B's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,834
Default

Todd, thank you for saying what I would have liked to say but expressing it better.

I grew up in the good old days during the depression, and most of us were worse off in material goods than families on welfare today. However, we could still be happy, because we didn't realize how poor we were.

The government doesn't owe everyone in this country free health care, a roof over our heads and three meals a day. We have to borrow money from China to pay for what it does now provide. What ever happened to the idea of relying on ourselves?

I will gladly pay a lot more taxes if our benevolent government will only get off its borrowing and spending cycle. Socialism only works well in college textbooks.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2011, 03:29 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,199
Default Alabama

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
Every morning I search for something in the news to completely depress me. Not hard to find these days. Today it was actually two items, both concerning the state of Alabama, which taken together define the hypocrisy that is rampant in the land.

First comes the quote from Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions on CNN two nights ago. . ."I think the Tea Party movement represented a spontaneous American expression of shock and concern over the spending that was going on in Washington."

Then comes the news this morning that Alabama leads the nation in the percentage of citizens who recieve "government nutritional assistance." I believe that is newspeak for food stamps. That number is a staggering 36%.

If there is any better evidence of the disconnect between what people say they believe and what they do in real life, I've yet to see it.

There is no redder state than Alabama. Senators Shelby and Sessions are two of the most hard line conservatives there today. The Alabama House delegation of seven features six Republicans, at least one of which is a card-carrying Tea Party member. All six Republicans are white, five of them men. The lone Democrat is a black woman. Republican Governor Bentley spoke at a church right after his inauguration in January and said that those who have not accepted Christ as their personal Savior "are not my brothers and sisters." Later, on advice of PR staff, he apologized, said he meant no harm. He said he was governor of all the people (but he didn't say they were all his brothers and sisters).

And yet, in this cradle of conservatism, 36% of the citizens are on government nutritional assistance.

There are some obvious questions here, and I'm sure Venice will ask at least one of them. But there is also the amazing level of willful blindness that leads us into our comfortable, low-tax world despite what's happening to the people next door.

That is disturbing.
I was quite active in the Civil rights movement in the 1960's .Alabama at that time ,primarily Montgomery and Mobile were hotbeds of racism .
However ,that has changed dramatically .I have a friend who is a College Professor in Mobile . He was teaching in a northeastern state and chose to relocate to Alabama because of the good quality of life there .
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 12:02 AM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,473
Default

Just back after a long weekend listening to folk music.

Nice to see Marc's full-throated defense of Alabama, but he misses the point. Whether or not there was a spike in food stamps there due to the disaster, there is a fundamental disconnect in many places, including Alabama, with regard to what people say they want in the abstract and what they really want--and get in real life.

The Tax Policy Center has what is now a somewhat outdated list of states that receive more in federal funds than they pay in federal taxes. It is stunning that this data isn't more current, but the latest numbers I've seen are from 2005. Still, I can't believe the pattern has changed much. Here are the top ten "getter" states. . .those that receive more in federal funding than they pay in. The number next to each is how many dollars they get back for each dollar they contribute.

1. NM $2.05
2. MS $2.02
3. Alaska $1.84
4. LA 1.78
5. WV 1.76
6. ND 1.68
7. AL 1.66
8. SD 1.53
9. KY 1.51
10. VA 1.51

There are a few exceptions, but can you spot a pretty well defined political trend within these states? Anyone? Anyone? Any tea being drunk there (sweet or otherwise)? Any Kool-Aid? Seems like the states that are subsidized most heavily by federal tax dollars, and that get far more than they give, are the ones who scream the loudest that they're getting hosed.

Kuki's had it right all along: we've got to collect more in taxes, AND overhaul the tax code. As far as spending is concerned, every credible economist of every political stripe that I've read points out that our debt is a long term issue not a short term issue. . .and that federal spending cuts now will kill jobs far more than sensible tax increases on the rich.

The problem, of course, is that our polictical system is structured such that we have not the slightest clue about how to deal with any long term problems. The only problems that exist for our government are short term ones. That is because these guys can't see past the next election, and they succumb to fat checks from fat cats, to the never-ending 24-hour news cycle, and to what they think is the power of the press release.

They have mortgaged all of us to their sordid ambitions and vulgar egos, and the problem with running them all out on a rail is the terrifying prospect of what would replace them.

I'm all for term limits too, but the problem is that the best and the brightest in our land for years have taken one look at the political scene, done a quick personal cost/benefits analysis, and have run screaming from any political activity. There are exceptions, but that's the norm. And that's a big reason why we are left with the bottom-of-the-barrel hack politicians that have brought us to the brink of financial ruin.

And who seem to have no problem with shooting the hostage even after the ransom is paid.

We're in trouble. I hope the Standard & Poors downgrade will wake some people up, but I doubt it will.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 01:46 AM
Lisa's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Wisconsin....about 100 miles south of the Frozen Tundra and 70 miles east of Camp Randall
Posts: 9,488
Send a message via AIM to Lisa Send a message via Yahoo to Lisa
Default

I too hope the downgrade by Standard and Poors will wake people, especially those in the current administration, up. But with the Secretary of the Treasury coming out this weekend and saying that S&P made a huge mistake and blaming faulty math does not bode well for our country. Heads in the sand or arrogance on the part of the current administration? I don't know, but I do know this country is in deep trouble financially..........and the only way to resolve it, imho, is to make drastic spending cuts (do we really need to subsidize ethanol production, etc.) across the board, along with updating the tax code. If you increase taxes (revenue), but don't cut spending, it just will not work. The stimulus packages did not work.......maybe letting some of those large companies fail would have been better for our country........why bail out those that largely contributed to the problem, especially since they have not changed their practices after the bail out.
__________________
Carnival Breeze with Ray B and Aerogirl 5/4/14!
Lisa
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 07:31 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,457
Default

Lisa, you are worried about ethanol production, when we are supporting military bases all over the world and giving foreign aid to countries that are not even our friends. Plus we are fighting wars that we cannot afford nor can we win.
How many Vietnam's do we need to get involve in?

Also I find the arrogance on the people who want to keep the tax-cuts for the rich and reduce Social Security for the poor.

Yes we need to cut spending, but we have to raise our revenue as well.

TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence of the Seas 12/29/2013 Top-notch!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 09:56 AM
Mike M's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: You're Looking At Me
Posts: 23,756
Default

There are three areas of our budget that take over 60% of our tax revenues. Defense, Social Security, Medicare/Medicade/CHIP. These three areas must be addressed before any reduction can truly be realized. Will this result in increased FICA contributions, higher Medicare premiums, reduction of benefits, or higher taxation for higher income retirees, a further increase in the reitrement age, and a reduction in our deployment of our military. Without addressing these areas there can be no real savings no matter how much we cut the other expenditures in the budget.

I personally shake my head when I see emails and postings about how much we spend in "foreign aid" or the salaries of the President and Congress. You could stop all "foreign aid" and stop paying our elected officials and it would make no difference in the problems we currently have. Foreign aid spending accounts for less than 2% of our annual tax revenues and the salaries of our elected officials are a minor fraction of a percent. People tend to look at things they don't like but don't realize that there are major issues that need addressing before addressing the small matters.

I do get angry when people, individuals and corporations, will scream for and demand "cuts" but scream even louder when a "cut" will effect them.

I do agree that there needs to be an overhaul of our tax system. Large Corporations need to pay more and not be as "concerned" about paying shareholders. The mentality of others setting the target earnings and if a company misses it by a small, or fraction, of a percent will send the stock price reeling. The argument that if large corporations have a small increase in taxation will result in massive job losses is BS. This is nothing but fear mongering or the mentality of rewarding large shareholders at the expense of the company and their employees. Don't get me wrong. There are corporations that have areas that are bloated with people and in many instances a reduction in force is required. However this should only be done after careful consideration and not just to raise the stock price or dividends a small percentage.

There also needs to be realistic tax increases across the board. No matter if you are making $30,000 or $30,000,000. We are demanding more without wanting to pay for it. I have been an advocate of a flat tax for many years. Would this be the answer? I don't know but it would be better than the current system.

No matter what: Hard decisions need to be made and our elected officials need to stop their childish behavior and concentrate on what's best for the country and not what's best for their re-election.

Take care,
Mike
__________________
Cruisemates Community Leader/Moderator

"There is a great difference between being well traveled and just having been to many places." ~Me

"Fear is the assassin of dreams." ~Me
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 11:02 AM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,473
Default

+1 Mike. Well said.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
+1 Mike. Well said.
I agree with most of what Mike said.

And if I may add. We need people in congress to put country first instead of their party.

Work together and do everything it takes to help our economy.

I dis-agree on foreign aid. because if you cut 1% here and 2% there it's a step in the right direction.

TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence of the Seas 12/29/2013 Top-notch!
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 11:52 AM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
I dis-agree on foreign aid. because if you cut 1% here and 2% there it's a step in the right direction.

TM
Manuel--

While it's certainly true that small cuts can eventually add up, it's also true that it's necessary to honestly evaluate the benefit to the nation of the investments we make. Your position carries the implication that all foreign aid is either useless or of minimal value at best.

There's another side to that argument that says that while there are obviously abuses and political excesses, much of what we do overseas is not only reasonable, but in some ways necessary, and certainly in our own national interest.

Again, it's all about honest and thoughful evaluation on a case-by-case basis, and painting with too broad a brush is dangerous. Unfortunately, most politicians aren't thoughtful enough to make the distinctions.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 12:30 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,199
Default Solution to the financial problems

1) Bring home ALL the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan .

2) Bring home all the troops stationed all over the world .
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 01:11 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry43 View Post
1) Bring home ALL the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan .

2) Bring home all the troops stationed all over the world .
And find them all jobs where?

I'm basically in favor of ending the wars quickly too, but it's always good to consider unintended negative consequences of good things.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 02:23 PM
Paul B's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,834
Default

A good place for a lot of our troops now overseas would be to station them at the Mexican border.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 03:22 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,199
Default Jobs

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
And find them all jobs where?

I'm basically in favor of ending the wars quickly too, but it's always good to consider unintended negative consequences of good things.

First of all AR,I pose this query to you .If a head of state of another country believes that Americans are not being treated properly would you condone that country sending troops into the US ?I think not .

Secondly ,in 1971 I worked for the Department of Labor .My job was to set up training programs for discharged Vietnam soldiers .Programs would be similiarly set up in 2011 .

Finally ,American lives would be saved instead of being lost for oil rights . The monies spent for the troops would be used to help eradicate poverty and to create jobs for the troops returning home.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 04:04 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,473
Default

Henry--

I guess you didn't read what I wrote: I'm as against the wars as you are. I have seen no compelling case for either one of them at this point. All I see are variations on the old Domino Theory, only now it's terrorists instead of Communists.

Doesn't change the fact that you can have all the training programs you want, but if there are no jobs at the other end of the training, the training doesn't matter.

The 10s are much different from the 70s. The economy of the 70s had its ups and downs, but none of the woes of today.

And while I'd like to think you're right that defense savings would be used to create jobs, there's certainly no guarantee of that in today's environment. More likely, the savings would be used as an excuse to cut taxes further while cutting spending more. . .a sure-fire formula for fewer, not more, jobs.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 05:07 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry43 View Post
1) Bring home ALL the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan .

2) Bring home all the troops stationed all over the world .
I agree with that 100%

I don't meant to put them out of uniform. They can stationed in various bases in the USA.
Then instead of supporting the German, Japanese, Korean, Spanish, Italian or any other foreign countries economies they can spend our tax money here and create jobs here.

TM


__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence of the Seas 12/29/2013 Top-notch!
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 08:46 PM
Marc's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 3,613
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
There also needs to be realistic tax increases across the board. No matter if you are making $30,000 or $30,000,000. We are demanding more without wanting to pay for it. I have been an advocate of a flat tax for many years. Would this be the answer? I don't know but it would be better than the current system.

Take care,
Mike
The problem with income taxes today is that half the population don't pay any income tax; in fact, the Earned Income Credit has been expanded so much that many get paid by the government just to have kids they have no desire to support. Until everyone has "skin in the game," we won't be able to agree on proper tax reform.

I think this thread is still pulling Alabama through the mud. Can we get thread renamed or move the discussion to some other thread.

Marc
__________________
Marc

"The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

F Scott Fitzgerald

Silversea Silver Explorer (23nts) - Kangerlussuaq, Greenland - Nome, Alaska - Aug 14

Seven Seas Voyager (30nts) - Dubai - Cape Town - Nov 14
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2011, 08:51 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,199
Default Manuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
I agree with that 100%

I don't meant to put them out of uniform. They can stationed in various bases in the USA.
Then instead of supporting the German, Japanese, Korean, Spanish, Italian or any other foreign countries economies they can spend our tax money here and create jobs here.

TM

OF course we share the same opinion

Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old August 9th, 2011, 09:07 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,518
Send a message via Yahoo to Luanne Russo
Default

Okay, I was going to stay out of this, but I have a little bit of knowledge on the subject, so let me see if I can clear up some things.

We (Americans) have military bases all over the world for several different reasons. One of those reasons is if we needed to get to a hot spot around the world, we need bases close enough to the action, so we can respond. Japan is a good example. When that country was hit by earthquakes, and flooding, they were cut off from the rest of the world. We were already there, so we reponded within a few hours, saving thousands of lives.

When we reponded to the take over of another country by Saddam, it took us three weeks to get into position. In the mean time, those people suffered. Now, we have a few, and I mean few bases left in Iraq, so if there is more trouble, we can at least make an effort, until other help can arrive.

We are in Korea, because that war never ended. The DMZ is still just as hot today as it was in 1950's. If we pulled out, China, and No. Korea would take the south in a matter of hours.

I was just in Germany a couple of years ago, and the posts there have pretty much been turned over to the Germans, but the military hospital still serves as a place to take our troops, if hurt in that region, or anywhere in the Middle East.

I also agree that we should bring our troops home from the Middle East. Of course I do, but the truth about what we are doing there, is more important than my wishes.

Where is that oil? Do you not think that if we were in the Middle East for the oil, we would still be paying so much for oil? Could that possibly be true? Of course it isn't true. It's something someone started years ago, and thankfully only a few continue to repeat that lie.

If there was oil coming out of that area, free of charge, wouldn't it be on the nightly news? We own Iraq. If we were taking that oil, our prices would be .75 cents a gallon like it is in Iraq today. But you see, we don't want Iraq. It belongs to it's people. Oh sure, we could have stood by and let thousands of people be gassed. It wasn't our problem right? We could have stood by and let Iraq take that small little country on the gulf. It wasn't our problem. Of course if they had taken control they planned to bottle up that gulf, and start charging ships to come through. Now that would have been a problem, because it would have cost us money.

Iraq is like the forts of the middle ages. Back then you set up shop at the highest point, so you could see the surrounding areas for trouble.

Once Desert Storm ended in the early 90's we intended leaving the middle east. It was the people who asked us to stay. Sure, we could have said sorry Charlie, it's your problem now, but would that have been the American way?

Then, Sept. 11th 2001 happened. Your remember that day don't you? We had many troops guarding the states, but we couldn't stop what happened. I saw many grown men cry on that day, because we simply could not stop them.

Now common sense says that it is best to stop them, before they reach us, instead of waiting until they were on the front porch, so we went back to the middle east. There is no telling how many American lives have been saved by us going to them,instead of allowing them to come here.

This morning 30 body bags are on their way home. Who of you believe they are stopping on the way to pick up that shipment of oil that we are over there for anyway?

Monday morning quarterbacking has been going on for a very long time, but before you do, please know the game plan.

My husband is a highly trained man. He did his part for this country, and could very easily get a "real" job here in the states. I could have slept with the man of my dreams last night, and he could have gone off to work this morning like most of you, but my husband is a soldier. Not on paper, but in his heart. He still can be heard to say, "My soldiers" He loves this country, and would give his life for this country. What he is not is an oil man. To me that is the biggest slap in the face you could say to any soldier.

Our country is indeed in serious trouble, and blaming our troubles on the price of the military, is one that has been used many times before, but say to yourself. Is it better to spend that money on our freedom from the people of 9/11, or is it best to keep that money home, and cover our eyes, and hope no one attacks again. You sure better cover more than your eyes, because .......

__________________
Ecstasy 2005
Conquest 2005
Elation 2005
Conquest 2006
Conquest 2007
Ecstasy 2008
Valor B2B 2008

Conquest Virtual Cruise Topic Link
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old August 9th, 2011, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 315
Default

Thank you, Luanne.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old August 9th, 2011, 10:57 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,199
Default

Aerica is a country ,not GOD .It is not up to America to police the world . I ask you LuAnne a question that I asked you in an e-mail and you never responded .
What if Khadafy or Castro or any other world leader felt that Americans were not being treated properly and Libya ,Cuba or any other country sent in their troops to liberate America ,would you condone this ?
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old August 9th, 2011, 12:07 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,518
Send a message via Yahoo to Luanne Russo
Default

Sistersolo

Henry, The thought of Cuba attacking makes me smile as I see them driving their 1950 Ford's to run over us.

Henry, It is spelled America. I did not say it was God. If it was, we would all be perfect.

I told you before I didn't receive an e-mail from you with a question. Please ask it again on here, and I will be glad to answer.

Unless my memory is faulty, I do not remember a time that a goverment has not asked us to come to help. If we were in serious trouble, and our gov. was gassing us, then yes I would welcome other countries coming to help.

__________________
Ecstasy 2005
Conquest 2005
Elation 2005
Conquest 2006
Conquest 2007
Ecstasy 2008
Valor B2B 2008

Conquest Virtual Cruise Topic Link
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old August 9th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Kuki's Avatar
Moderator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Right here :)
Posts: 22,384
Send a message via AIM to Kuki
Default

The military does a great job of doing their jobs, and unlike times in the past, I think people generally support them for the difficult and deadly job they do.

However, they do not set the policy. Their marching orders determine where they risk their lives.

Desert Storm at least had the facade of a reasonable excuse to come to the air of Kuait.

Invading Iraq was done on a whim of people who just like war, who most likely "made up" intelligence to convince the administration that Iraq had something to do with the 911 attacks.

As bad a dictator as Saddam was, he was a balance (and sworn enemy) of Iran. Removing him took Iran... a country with little influence in the arab world at the time..... and made them a major player.

Iran wouldn't even have considered looking at nuclear programs, because it would have meant another war Iraq.

The growth of Bin Laden, and Al Quida, occurred as a result of the US decision to arm them and support them to fight against Russia, in Afhghanistan.

History proves politicians deciding which side is right in different conflcts doesn't work out so well.

Assad, in Syria, is the newest dictator, slaughtering his people, yet at the moment no one is calling on the military to attack them.

If the reasoning, to protect the people of the world, is to be carried forward, they should be bombing Syria now, and lining troops at their border. They should be protecting and feeding the starving people of Somalia. .. or building homes for the people of Haiti, or New Orleans, or ............. The list sadly is WAY TOO LONG.
__________________
C U @ C,
Kuki
CruiseMates' Staff Writer
- The Kuki Side of Cruising-
A new Blog post every Wednesday
http://www.cruisemates.com/blog/author/kuki/
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
alabama, food, leads, nation, stamps

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carnival Legend to be Renamed..... ShotoJuku Carnival Cruise Lines 82 May 19th, 2009 07:01 PM
Renamed and Reflagged... Rev22:17 Celebrity 14 January 8th, 2009 07:17 PM
Pride of Hawaii Renamed ssantow Norwegian Cruise Lines 0 April 17th, 2007 01:51 PM
Are we considered out of country? Melody Ask CruiseMates Staff 11 March 10th, 2005 07:52 PM
Sky renamed for project America Alaska-At-Last Norwegian Cruise Lines 3 May 9th, 2003 04:47 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:52 AM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1