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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:02 PM
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Default The World of Political Midgets

OK, I've never made any secret about it. . .

I'm not a hard core leftie, but my views do run left of center. I tend to be a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, and at times those two things are not easy to balance. I admit all that.

It's also true that for many reasons I am not pleased with the current administration. I am willing to be party blind and consider any presidential candidate who's not an utter hypocrite or an blithering idiot. Tough assignment, apparently.

Consider the last couple days. Dear Michelle from Minnesota says that if she were president she'd shut down our embassy in Iran. Earth to Michelle, we haven't had a funtioning embassy there since 1979. Hostage taking and all that. . .we were kinda pissed off and shut it all downl Remember?

Newt says he's never lobbied. Of course not. And Santa's never slid down a chimney.

Herman's going to decide whether to stay in the race after he has a "meeting" with his wife. Anybody who calls getting together with his wife a "meeting" is already in trouble. If he walks into his next news conference limping and with band-aids on his face, we'll know the meeting did not go well. If he tells us that his wife yelled "Nine, nine, nine!" it probably means that she's German.

And then there's good ol' Rick from Texas. He says that anybody who'll turn 21 by election day should get out there and vote. Kinda reminds me of the dirty tricks that are pulled on election day when all those calls are made telling people to "be sure and vote tomorrow." I'm guessing that Rick was busy working out ways for Texas to secede from the Union when they lowered the voting age to 18.

And speaking of young voters, you've got to give Texas credit for some things, like putting in one of those laws requiring photo ID's to vote. After all, voter fraud is a big problem in this country, and we've got to nip it in the bud. And all these people who say that it's just a way to suppress certain kinds of people from voting just don't know what they're talking about.

Until you look at the law. In the great state of Texas, a photo ID issued by a college or university--even a state-run college or university--is ABSOLUTELY INVALID as a credential for voting. But if you show up at the polls with a hunting license, well, here's your ballot sir. Voter suppression? Perish the thought.

I swear, I wouldn't give any of these people the keys to a motorbike, much less a term in office.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:44 PM
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In my callow youth, I was a Young Republican .... growing up in East Tennessee and in a high school group called "Kids For Alexander" in the '70s (he was running for Governor of Tennessee at the time). My idols were George Will, William F. Buckley, and P.J. O'Rourke, who I still have a soft spot for.

What the hell happened to the Republican Party. When did intelligence become a nasty-bad thing and ignorance proudly flaunted? I watch these clowns and ponder that anybody takes them seriously. And these are the only realistic Party candidates!

It just makes you shake your head.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:36 PM
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And the alternative is an individual with absolutely no experience at virtually anything?
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:49 PM
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And the alternative is an individual with absolutely no experience at virtually anything?
This is the attitude I don't get. A fellow is an immigrant to the United States, raised by a single mum, works his ass off and studies hard ... does all the right things ... is accepted to Harvard Law, then goes into civil service instead of making a fortune in private business like he could ... because he wants to serve. And ultimately is elected President of the United States.

This is the quintessential American success story.

And all you can say is he has no experience at anything? My god, what more does a man have to do to earn your respect?

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Old December 1st, 2011, 10:09 PM
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I'm sorry, but exactly when did this become a bash the Republican party board?

I understand everyone has opinions, and we have had long threads and discussions about what is appropriate and what is not appropriate discussions on the "Chit-Chat" portion of a cruise board, but is this really the place to bash the candidates of any political party? Political discussions are one thing, but this is really just bashing.

To Todd, AR, Henry and Aiden, while I respect you and understand you all have your political views, there are NUMEROUS other boards on the internet where you can bash and have these discussions. I know that, because that is where I go to have my political discussions, not here. You all contribute so many other great posts and I enjoy your other chit chats and posts.

I am not a moderator nor do I have any authority here, so I am just voicing my opinion. Just keep in mind that not everyone is of your political beliefs, and when you write things like this bashing a political party, it's candidates or any political movement, you may offend and drive others away.

It just seems like everytime I come on this board anymore, it is less and less about cruising, and more and more political. If that's the case, maybe I should just move on to another cruise board.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 10:41 PM
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I understand everyone has opinions. . .
Scott, the specific mandate of this particular Cruisemates chat board is Open Forum for non-cruise posts.

Hence, this is where we post our opinions. Since you understand that everybody has opinions, you also know you don't have to read them ...or you can join in the sandbox and argue away. Welcome aboard!.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 10:48 PM
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I think it is very important to pray for all of those who are running, in both parties.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 11:28 PM
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I think it is very important to pray for all of those who are running, in both parties.
I tend to pray for the country.

In that spirit, I hope all those running live happily, have wonderful lives, make tons of money (there'll be no problem there, of course) have great families and friends.

Just as long as they don't attain high public office, because, as I said. . .

I tend to pray for the country.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by blueliner View Post
I'm sorry, but exactly when did this become a bash the Republican party board?

I understand everyone has opinions, and we have had long threads and discussions about what is appropriate and what is not appropriate discussions on the "Chit-Chat" portion of a cruise board, but is this really the place to bash the candidates of any political party? Political discussions are one thing, but this is really just bashing.

To Todd, AR, Henry and Aiden, while I respect you and understand you all have your political views, there are NUMEROUS other boards on the internet where you can bash and have these discussions. I know that, because that is where I go to have my political discussions, not here. You all contribute so many other great posts and I enjoy your other chit chats and posts.

I am not a moderator nor do I have any authority here, so I am just voicing my opinion. Just keep in mind that not everyone is of your political beliefs, and when you write things like this bashing a political party, it's candidates or any political movement, you may offend and drive others away.

It just seems like everytime I come on this board anymore, it is less and less about cruising, and more and more political. If that's the case, maybe I should just move on to another cruise board.
I've been trying to avoid the political threads but since my name was mentioned I will ad my thoughts .

I have only voted for 2 presidential candidates who I genuinely thought could make a difference :George McGovern and Dick Gregory .I am left of center on international politics and right of center on most domestic issues .
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 08:03 AM
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This happens every four years as the would be candidates in the part out of power parade around for almost two years and have plenty of opportunities to show us their dark sides.

Iran: Wasn't that the president's first international destination?

Cain: Yes, very disappointing that he was going to consider how this affected fund-raising not whether he was a bad man. I'm surprised he hasn't said "Hey, it was the Clinton years, infidelity seemed to be in vogue"
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 08:48 AM
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OK, I've never made any secret about it. . .

I'm not a hard core leftie, but my views do run left of center. I tend to be a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, and at times those two things are not easy to balance. I admit all that.
AR

Couldn't put it better myself - my left friends think I am Mrs Thatcher reincarnated and my conservative friends think I am Mrs Castro - lol.

Life is tough.

I know this is a US political thread - but hell if I had a vote -I don't know how I would use it next year.

Someone has to step up to the plate in a lot of Western economies and cut the deficits. But don't touch my NHS -the Scottish version

Annie

PS Feel free to tell me to keep my nose out of it - but you may have all discovered I can't and won't.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 09:02 AM
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AR Does what you write mean that you have already decided on who to vote for next year?
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 11:18 AM
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I haven't a clue who I'm going to vote for. It won't be the current President simply because there wasn't even a budget passed when he and his party controlled both houses of Congress. As if the former President didn't saddle us with enough debt, our current one has gone on a spending spree the likes of which is absolutely unprecedented yet has come up with absolutely no way whatsoever to pay for it. Worse yet, he continues to propose still more spending! And you can't blame it on just the military and the "fat cats." You could take every cent every millionaire in this country has and it wouldn't even begin to dent the budget. While saving could also come from the military budget understand this (which I've previously posted): our current military appropriations make up 20% of the budget. When JFK was President, it made up 50% of the budget!

I vote the person, not the party. As I've oft said, my favorite President in my lifetime and remember, I'm a big history buff, was Harry Truman, a Democrat (who also was the last President to never graduate from college). He wasn't an industrialist, he wasn't rich and he was originally a product of among the most corrupt political machines then in existence; yet he had experience in business, worked himself up through the political ranks, left all of his corrupt cronies behind and eventually became President. My favorite Senator was a man with whom I once had lunch as a teenager, Everette Dirksen, a Republican.

While I'm right of center, I'm certainly no "Winger" by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 11:21 AM
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I think it is very important to pray for all of those who are running, in both parties.

I agree with you.

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Old December 2nd, 2011, 11:22 AM
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AR Does what you write mean that you have already decided on who to vote for next year?
No, it means exactly the opposite.

I am hoping against hope that someone with demonstrated leadership qualities, integrity, and ideas that can pass at least a minimal smell test will yet join the fray, either as a Republican or a third party candidate. I'm disappointed that President Obama was not forced to face a primary challenge.

If we have to choose from among the current crop, I may sit it out. I have never done that before. I have voted in every single election--Presidential and off-year--since I was 21.

This is a national tragedy. We've always known that the very best and brightest tend to run screaming from public service because, well, because they're the best and the brightest. But there are 3 billion of us in this country. You'd think we could find somebody halfway competent and halfway ethical to replace the Barnum and Bailey act we're witnessing now.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 11:48 AM
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It won't be the current President simply because there wasn't even a budget passed when he and his party controlled both houses of Congress.
I agree with most of what you said, but you must remember this: as a practical matter a party does not control the Senate unless it has 60 votes, because of the relatively new "interpretation" of the cloture rule. While the Senate under Obama has more than 50 Democrats, it does not have 60, and as you well know that is the reason no budget was passed, and it is the core reason that a lot of other things didn't get done.

So you can't lay that one off entirely on the president. The Senate will henceforward be an obstructionist chamber unless one party or the other gains a 60 vote majority, or the cloture rule is restored to its original form. And really, it's going to take a few more than 60 to allow for the occasional turncoats like Olympia Snowe and Ben Nelson and the ever-Quixotic Joe Lieberman. If the Republicans gain "control" in the next election with more than 50 and fewer than 60, the Senate will still be mired in quicksand, and you will see "payback" by the Democrats like you've never seen it before--especially if we wind up with a Republican president.

Count on it.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 12:01 PM
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[QUOTE=AR;1403856]
. But there are 3 billion of us in this country. /QUOTE]

3 billion what ?

Annie
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 12:03 PM
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AR That makes me feel better. It is way to soon for anyone to decide.

I also wish their were others who would run, but it is almost impossible to find someone who always says the right thing. Never gets tired, even making 6 stops a day.

I was really disappointed with what is going on with Cain. I was already believing what was being said about him, until I realized that anyone can claim abuse, sexual misconduct, and it's almost impossible to prove, one way or another.

I was also shocked to learn that a person with nothing else to lose, can be paid to say bad things for a price.

I think it would be better if we could hear what those running have to say, if we didn't have to weed through the name calling, and labels.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 12:19 PM
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AR,

You're talking about now. I'm talking about when he first took office and had an absolute majority in both houses. He rammed through the health care bill but he couldn't ram through a budget at the same time?????
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
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...A fellow is an immigrant to the United States, raised by a single mum, works his ass off and studies hard ... does all the right things ... is accepted to Harvard Law, then goes into civil service instead of making a fortune in private business like he could ... because he wants to serve. And ultimately is elected President of the United States...
Hmmmmmmm...just an FYI...immigrants are not eligible be President of the United States.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 12:32 PM
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[QUOTE=anniegb;1403867]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
. But there are 3 billion of us in this country. /QUOTE]

3 billion what ?

Annie
Ooops. A Rick Perry brain freeze. Shows I'm not fit for public office either. Three hundred million, of course.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 12:35 PM
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AR,

You're talking about now. I'm talking about when he first took office and had an absolute majority in both houses. He rammed through the health care bill but he couldn't ram through a budget at the same time?????
No, but see, that's what I meant when I said it takes more than 60. On any issue there's going to be some leakage, deals, whatever. That's why it's really going to take a solid two-thirds to really nail anything down.

The fact that passing health care was like pushing a boulder up a mountain even with such a "majority" is exactly the point I'm making.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 01:39 PM
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Here's my view again from "outside" (not American... though a big supporter of the United States).

I don't believe most of America has come to grips yet with how HUGE a mess the country is in.

The mess isn't a result of the actions of one or two Presidents or adminstrations. It's a result of DECADES of miisteos in both domestic and foreign policies, combined with DECADES of money controlling congressional policy.

And guess what... there is no one answer, no one person, and no one political approach to cure its ills.

For example, Iran, which many now consider the most significant foreign threat would have remained a small impotent player in the region if Saddam Hussein still ran Iraq. They were mortal enemies, and fought wars against each other. (That doesn't take into account that Hussein was a crazy dictator who killed his own people, but at the same time he was the guage that kept Iran in check).

Of course, before that there was when the US backed the Shah of Iran, and the rebels in Afghanastan (when Russia invaded), who later turned into Al Qaida.

Domestically, the economic mess was allowed to grow exponentially, because everyone wanted to be financial winners (which is ok), but those with the most money were allowed to control the agendas and policies, which made their areas the most successful financially.

I think America in general isn't willing to step forward and make the sacrifices necessary to dig out of the hole that has now become so apparent.

They have been much too willing to sacrifice their most precious treasure; the lives and limbs of their soldiers (sons and daughters), yet are unwilling to sacrifices their "things", their lifestyles, their money to assist their country out of the precepice it's fallen into.

Watching the election process slowly unfold, it is scary to see that nothing has changed, and nothing is changing. Good ideas go unacted upon for the sole reason that they may be coming from the "other party".

Only lip service is being given to doing what is "right for the country", when no one cares to actually work with each other to do what is "right for the country".

And at the moment it seems the citizens of America are only voting to chose sides..... and it certainly appears that whichever side wins, the system remains in place for nothing good to come of it for the country... only for the indivuals that get the votes.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 01:46 PM
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OK, I've never made any secret about it. . .

I'm not a hard core leftie, but my views do run left of center. I tend to be a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, and at times those two things are not easy to balance. I admit all that.

It's also true that for many reasons I am not pleased with the current administration. I am willing to be party blind and consider any presidential candidate who's not an utter hypocrite or an blithering idiot. Tough assignment, apparently.

Consider the last couple days. Dear Michelle from Minnesota says that if she were president she'd shut down our embassy in Iran. Earth to Michelle, we haven't had a funtioning embassy there since 1979. Hostage taking and all that. . .we were kinda pissed off and shut it all downl Remember?

Newt says he's never lobbied. Of course not. And Santa's never slid down a chimney.

Herman's going to decide whether to stay in the race after he has a "meeting" with his wife. Anybody who calls getting together with his wife a "meeting" is already in trouble. If he walks into his next news conference limping and with band-aids on his face, we'll know the meeting did not go well. If he tells us that his wife yelled "Nine, nine, nine!" it probably means that she's German.

And then there's good ol' Rick from Texas. He says that anybody who'll turn 21 by election day should get out there and vote. Kinda reminds me of the dirty tricks that are pulled on election day when all those calls are made telling people to "be sure and vote tomorrow." I'm guessing that Rick was busy working out ways for Texas to secede from the Union when they lowered the voting age to 18.

And speaking of young voters, you've got to give Texas credit for some things, like putting in one of those laws requiring photo ID's to vote. After all, voter fraud is a big problem in this country, and we've got to nip it in the bud. And all these people who say that it's just a way to suppress certain kinds of people from voting just don't know what they're talking about.

Until you look at the law. In the great state of Texas, a photo ID issued by a college or university--even a state-run college or university--is ABSOLUTELY INVALID as a credential for voting. But if you show up at the polls with a hunting license, well, here's your ballot sir. Voter suppression? Perish the thought.

I swear, I wouldn't give any of these people the keys to a motorbike, much less a term in office.
Okay you got me laughing here. I probably like ya because I'm also social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I don't care who marries who just someone stop the goverment from spending my tax money on useless crap. As someone who spend 3 years doing legislative analysis let me tell you a secret. Party do mean nothing, they are all full of it. Half of them don't know their butt for a hole in the ground and the other half never lived in the real world. You know the world were you work 40 hours plus a week (yes I do count raising kids work those poor suckers just don't get paid) and at times struggle to pay your bills. Get laid off or fired etc. They came from rich family and made thier money the old fashion way they inherited it. BTW the Media also doesn't know their butt from a hole in the ground Either side left or right. I would read a bill for example the 5 or 6 healthcare bills we had in California. Then I would read the newspaper article or watch the News and the report would be completely wrong. Not even bias wrong; just incompetent wrong. I once saw a TV news report that there were 29 chilean cold miners trapped. I'm afraid to know how one mines a cold. Woo I feel better now.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 03:06 PM
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Dearest Kat--

It is axiomatic that the media seldom really gets any story right. Nobody I know who has ever had direct knowledge of any story or situation that made it into print or on the air has ever said, "Yup, they nailed it. They got it right." Because it almost never happens. There are a lot of reasons, but that just goes with the territory. You're absolutely right.

And you're right that party doesn't matter too much either, especially these days. Because as Kuki and many others have pointed out, our nation's public policy is for sale to the highest bidder, and has been for years. Party doesn't matter; ideals and ideas don't matter. Money matters. Ask Grover Norquist. The Supreme Court did grievous injury to our nation in Citizens United by throwing gasoline on the fire, and Congress has done nothing to right the wrong. Nor are they likely to. They'll just continue to say, with a straight face, "Stop me before I raise money again!" I don't know how they live with themselves.

We need a top-to-bottom housecleaning, because the stench is pretty bad. I live about six miles from the big dome and on a windy day it gets a little rank even around here. Of course there are lobbyists in the neighborhood, so that probably accounts for part of it.

Oh, and stop the presses!!! The Donald will moderate a Republican debate between Christmas and New Years! Well, that'll settle it. He has announced that he will make his endorsement shortly after that event. Presumably he'll fire the others and we'll all know how things stand at that point.

Dear God.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 05:23 PM
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AR,

May I be so brash as to throw George Soros in with the oft mentioned Grover Norquist?
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
AR,

May I be so brash as to throw George Soros in with the oft mentioned Grover Norquist?
Of course. Wanna start a list? I'll see yours and raise you the Koch Brothers.
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Last edited by AR; December 2nd, 2011 at 05:42 PM.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
But if you show up at the polls with a hunting license, well, here's your ballot sir. Voter suppression? Perish the thought.
Seems like the discussion has departed this point, but a valid state picture ID (DL, ID or CHL) is required to obtain a hunting license in Texas; not that I don't essentially agree with your point. Despite the critisizm Texas has a lot of positives too. We love our state income tax. We are a right to work state which tends to draw many employers. We don't really cotton to unions. We have more than our share to beautiful women.

Having defended my state's honor...Rick Perry has had little to do with the positives that makes Texas shine. Neither has Bush. I'd like to give credit to Ann Richards, but it's really the constituant base that has always been employer friendly. We are weathering this "down turn" well because of that.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 09:27 PM
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As of now the person I am most inclined to vote for is on the Republican side . However ,he is not doing well in the polls currently .
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 09:42 PM
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Henry, there is hope for you yet. Sorry, I just had to say it.
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