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-   -   Lending Money to a friend? (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/chit-chat-cruisers/387015-lending-money-friend.html)

Paul Motter January 12th, 2012 05:30 PM

Lending Money to a friend?
 
I think mine will probably win, but before I spill I want to hear your stories.


What happened to you to teach you that lending money to a friend can be a serious mistake?


Now, just to be clear, I fully understand the concept of "giving" money to a friend with no expectations they will ever pay it back.


But the "lend" a friend asks for is usually a "lend" because the money is siginifcantly more than you would normally give. You lend it to them because its an emergency, and they are reliable, and its just to tide them over, right?


What's your worst lend story - the one where you said "never again?"

johnthed0g January 12th, 2012 05:57 PM

Just been lucky I guess.

Kuki January 12th, 2012 07:28 PM

Paul

I can tell you, from my experience, it's a no win situation either way.

I once loaned a friend several thousand dollars. For awhile we stayed friends, and kept socializing etc., and I never asked about the repayment, or put any "heat" on the guy. Yet, after a bit, he quit calling to go out, and the friendship just slipped away. We still run into them on occassion at social events, and we speak, but that friendship basically ended.

After that, in another situation, a friend asked me for a $25,000 loan, I said no... and that friendship ended almost immediately afterwards (not by me).

Both had been fairly long term friendships. It's true that money and friendship don't mix well.

Paul Motter January 12th, 2012 08:10 PM

This is weird because it just had some kind of conclusion.

I loaned one of my oldest friends a significant amount because he came and asked me for it. I was reluctant but he had been my best man, etc. We used to see each other pretty often and I had known him since 7th grade.

But he said he would absolutely pay me back within a few months. I said "first of all you have to promise me it won't affect our friendship." of course not he said.

I called him a few months later. "What are you doing?" I asked. "Oh, we're working on an extension on the house." Really?

A month later he breaks the news to us -he has cancer. But he is still playing in bands & stuff. We see him around.

Like you I didn't pressure him until about a year later, and then I called to ask how he was feeling, etc. Everything was under control, he said. So, I said "I think you need to start paying me back when you can, so he brought me a check for 20% of it. We and his wife went out to dinner, etc.

The next time I called him he said "You know what, you don't want to be my friend, I'm a real ass*. You don't want to know me." I knew where he was going with that, so I said "Hey, this is not how I feel... (you know)."

He and his wife continued to have parties, go out, have friends over, but we were off the friend list. Never a call. We even tried popping by a few times and they were just never home. This started in about 2008.

He just passed away from a sudden relapse of the cancer. He had been doing well. So, his wife invited us to the casual get together, barely acknowledged us.

About a week later she called me and said "You know, I have to say you deserve an apology." But I still don't if she ever knew about the loan. She didn't mention it, she just said "He had a real change in personality the last few years."

He was one of best friends, and the fact that he did that to me really bothers me. Was I supposed to be the one to say "you have cancer, forget the money?" he acted as if he was doing fine, plus the his wife has a closeknit family that I'm sure she is doing well financially. He either never told her about the loan or she decided that since he passed away it wasn't her responsibility.

Now I wonder if he knew he had the cancer when he borrowed the money. That's sick of me, I know, but the timing was very close and I can't help wondering.

The thing is - it isn't just the money or just the friendship, its mostly the friendship, but its really both. If he had come to me and said "I'm sick, I can't pay you back, but I hope we'll stay friends" that would be one thing, but he wrote me off but had a very active life with other friends - because of hid debt. Very rude of him. So, am I supposed to take the high road and say "well, the guy was sick, I understand?" I can forgive him, but I just can't ever say "I would have done the same thing if I was in his shoes."

AR January 12th, 2012 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Motter (Post 1409415)
So, am I supposed to take the high road and say "well, the guy was sick, I understand?" I can forgive him, but I just can't ever say "I would have done the same thing if I was in his shoes."

Lending money to friends is one of the best ways to lose friends. Ever has it been, and ever shall it be.

He's gone, and there's obviously no practical or humane way to collect what you're owed. Seems to me that you would serve yourself best by trying to put it behind you, to remember your friendship for the good times, and yes, forgive him in your heart. Beyond that, you're just asking questions that can't be answered, so why try?

Obviously, you have learned from the experience.

We watched one of Terry's cousins sink from a brilliant and highly successful career into the hell of paranoid schizophrenia. For years we were great friends as well as relatives. As she was hitting bottom, and after she was evicted from her lovely home, she begged us for money. At the time I said that if I thought it would help her I give her twice what she asked for (and she asked for quite a bit). Instead, we gave her a much smaller amount, knowing full well that we'd never see a penny of it again.

What we still get instead (more than 25 years later) are regular phone calls (which we don't answer), with vile, hateful messages that are beyond description and which Terry never hears if I get to the machine first. She treats the rest of the family the same way and worse, most especially her sister who has done more for her than anybody else, and who puts up with her constant abuse.

The whole situation has been awful literally for decades, but no cash infusion would have or will ever make any difference. She's a lost soul, and there's nothing anybody can do about it.

A bit of a different kind of situation, I know, but most of the same rules seem to apply. If you "lend" money, pretend you gave it away. Because almost always, you have.

Lakers Fan January 12th, 2012 11:10 PM

Twenty Five years ago a friend approached and asked if he could borrow money for his wedding . He and his fiancee were paying the total cost .
He never gave me back the money and our friendship has declined over the years .

Paul Motter January 13th, 2012 01:00 AM

I guess it is true that one should never expect to get the money back again. It's too bad, but I guess that's just the way it is.

I also have a sister who wants nothing to do with her family, but she constantly has reasons why she needs money from us - but she can't even be bothered to call us on the holidays. I don't get it.

AR January 13th, 2012 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry43 (Post 1409426)
Twenty Five years ago a friend approached and asked if he could borrow money for his wedding . He and his fiancee were paying the total cost .
He never gave me back the money and our friendship has declined over the years .

Philosophical question: If they paid the cost with borrowed money, did they really pay the cost (or did you)?

Of course these days prospective brides and grooms think nothing of putting up websites where they ask those who will be coming to the wedding to make an online credit card contribution to help pay for it. Oh, yeah, and don't forget to send a gift as well.

Gives me the creeps.

ToddDH January 13th, 2012 08:55 AM

I've never been able to lend the kind of money you two guys are talking about. I have, however, been asked to co-sign a few car loans over the decades all of which I've refused.

I do admit that when possible, I give money, I never lend it nor were I to be a person of means, change my ways. This way, if it does come back (as has occurred on several occasions) then fine, if it doesn't, it's no skin off my nose; meaning I tell the person if they can pay it back then fine, if they can't then that's fine as well.

Ol' Ben Franklin said it best, "Never a borrower or a lender be." or words to that effect.

anniegb January 13th, 2012 09:23 AM

I suppose I am more aligned to Todd in my lending policy than either Paul or Kuki. I am of modest means - my vice is my vacations.

I do lend occasionally but only up to a level I can afford to write off.

The name of the road where I live is also the name of a major retail bank in Scotland and I have to gently remind folks that although I live in xxx road does not mean that I am the xxx bank - lol.

I have always had loans repaid -maybe a little later than was intended.

A condition of any loan I make is that the borrower has been encouraged to join their local credit union. I am pleased to say they have all done so and even gone on and thanked me.

I have more than 20 years experience as a volunteer in the credit union movement so you could say I have a nose for these things.

Annie

Mike M January 13th, 2012 09:50 AM

I've never had a problem with friends. Actually I've only loaned any significant amount of money to a friend once. That was to help him buy his first house. I had the money back in less than six months.

Now relatives..............that's another story. Actually in-laws. The bank has been closed to them for quite a while. :roll: My dream is that they will someday finally become responsible and pay up and then Betty and I will take that 40 day cruise. ;) Note: I said "dream".

Take care,
Mike

Paul Motter January 13th, 2012 11:22 AM

I would have really preferred having money to pay the cost of the wedding rather than the toasters and knives we got as presents - (we were 50, did people think we didn't have a toaster?), but that wasn't considered normal back when we got married.

Family are the worst - and I almost think that is a separate subject.

I do not understand people who act as of they can't stand their own families, but still expect all the money the parents leave behind. My sister never offered a lick of care to my mom, but now that she is broke she is more than happy to take any money she can give to her.

Lakers Fan January 13th, 2012 08:39 PM

Clarification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AR (Post 1409449)
Philosophical question: If they paid the cost with borrowed money, did they really pay the cost (or did you)?

Of course these days prospective brides and grooms think nothing of putting up websites where they ask those who will be coming to the wedding to make an online credit card contribution to help pay for it. Oh, yeah, and don't forget to send a gift as well.

Gives me the creeps.

I do not believe that the entire wedding was paid with borrowed funds ,at least not from me .

Ron January 13th, 2012 09:38 PM

First of all, I'm more like Todd , in that I'm not in the same class of moneyed people like Paul, Kuki, Mike, A.R. etc so I couldn't loan tens of thousands nor hundreds of thousands of dollars if I wanted to.
Now, that being said, I agree with A.R.---
Lending money to friends is, in most cases, the best way to lose a friend.
I think too, lending money to family should be called a gift rather than a loan, as chances are, you won't see it again.
Of course, there's exceptions to every rule but generally speaking, the two above are pretty accurate.
So, no, I won't lend money to friends nor give it to relatives.
If someone's hungry, I'll buy them food or assist them in getting the help they need--if they don't have a bed for the night, I'll try to arrange a motel room for them until I can get them the needed aid in the next day or so. But handing out money is in most cases , in my opinion, a bad idea.
However, once in Key West my wife and I were walking down Duval St. and this young man was sitting on the side walk and asked me for a dollar. I asked him why he wanted a dollar, expecting him to say he was hungry. Instead, he said I'm going to be honest with you--I'm not hungry -- I'm trying to get enough to buy me a beer! I was impressed with his honesty, told him so and took him to the nearest bar which was only a few feet away and bought him 2 beers -- he was kind of shocked-- I told him since you were honest, I can respect that-had you lied and said you were hungry I would not have given you anything! We shook hands and parted friends-- at least for a few minutes anyway! ;)

Lakers Fan January 13th, 2012 09:58 PM

Hungry
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron (Post 1409623)
First of all, I'm more like Todd , in that I'm not in the same class of moneyed people like Paul, Kuki, Mike, A.R. etc so I couldn't loan tens of thousands nor hundreds of thousands of dollars if I wanted to.
Now, that being said, I agree with A.R.---
Lending money to friends is, in most cases, the best way to lose a friend.
I think too, lending money to family should be called a gift rather than a loan, as chances are, you won't see it again.
Of course, there's exceptions to every rule but generally speaking, the two above are pretty accurate.
So, no, I won't lend money to friends nor give it to relatives.
If someone's hungry, I'll buy them food or assist them in getting the help they need--if they don't have a bed for the night, I'll try to arrange a motel room for them until I can get them the needed aid in the next day or so. But handing out money is in most cases , in my opinion, a bad idea.
However, once in Key West my wife and I were walking down Duval St. and this young man was sitting on the side walk and asked me for a dollar. I asked him why he wanted a dollar, expecting him to say he was hungry. Instead, he said I'm going to be honest with you--I'm not hungry -- I'm trying to get enough to buy me a beer! I was impressed with his honesty, told him so and took him to the nearest bar which was only a few feet away and bought him 2 beers -- he was kind of shocked-- I told him since you were honest, I can respect that-had you lied and said you were hungry I would not have given you anything! We shook hands and parted friends-- at least for a few minutes anyway! ;)

There is a guy in NYC who sits on a corner with a sign asking for $2 .The sign reads : Not lying ,I want the money to get a beer .A friend and I happened to see him leaving the corner and ge went to an indoor pay garage and drove out in a Lexus .

Ron January 13th, 2012 10:14 PM

Henry, seems like he had it figured out pretty well. Sounds like one of A.R.'s Sherlock Holmes stories wherein a guy got into begging in order to write an article about it and soon learned he could earn more begging that working !

Lakers Fan January 13th, 2012 10:24 PM

A few years ago a guy taught a class teaching people to beg for money .

In Manhattan on nearly every corner you can find a person sitting at a table with a large container asking for money .The indication is that you are donating to the Coalition for the Homeless .However ,the containers are sold to people for $100 and the donated money is pocketed .

snorklr45 January 15th, 2012 02:27 AM

Loaning vs giving..When I have had extra funds..I have given some to family or friends or even a homeless person who needed it (yes, once to a guy with a sign that read "Why lie, I need a beer"). When I have been hurting for funds, the Lord has blessed me and people have been there in my circle of friends and family to donate things or throw a few bucks my way. I have never been rich enough financially to just loan someone many thousands of dollars; but I am rich with love between family and friends.

Mike M January 15th, 2012 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron (Post 1409623)
First of all, I'm more like Todd , in that I'm not in the same class of moneyed people like Paul, Kuki, Mike, A.R. etc so I couldn't loan tens of thousands nor hundreds of thousands of dollars if I wanted to.

Wow!! I never knew I was in the "money class". If anyone wants to loan me some I would really appreciate it. I would gladly not repay it. ;):D:D

I'm not broke but I sure ain't wealthy. If I was I sure wouldn't be sitting here right now. I'd be sitting in a nice cafe, in some exotic city, sipping a real coffee and watching the world go by. :D

Take care,
Mike

Ron January 15th, 2012 10:31 AM

Mike, I too would be somewhere exotic, well, it wouldn't even have to be exotic---just warm if I had some folks money! It's in the 20's here with light snow and ice and after my $7.50 trip to McD's for breakfast and a newspaper, I certainly can't be considered " moneyed " class either ! :) :) :)

Queen of Oakville January 15th, 2012 11:38 AM

Back when I had good friends .... I never had money to lend or give.

Today (at 42) ....I have money to lend, but very few I would even consider lending to. Most of my friends are now nothing more than acquantances and if they were to ask for money (loan or gift) I would have no qualms saying no.

There is only one couple (the guardians for our kids) that I know would only ever ask if they were dire, and I would not hesitate to give them whatever they asked for .... but would do so with no expectation of any repayment.

I think if you give money to a friend, you need to do it as a gift with no expectation of being re-paid. If being repaid is conditional, you should do it as a business agreement, with a legal contract, and the expectation that the friendship will probably be affected.

AR January 16th, 2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron (Post 1409636)
Henry, seems like he had it figured out pretty well. Sounds like one of A.R.'s Sherlock Holmes stories wherein a guy got into begging in order to write an article about it and soon learned he could earn more begging that working !

Yes, exactly!! "The Man with the Twisted Lip" is the name of the story in case you'd like to look it up.

We've just been up in New York for the weekend, specifically to attend the annual "Gaslight Gala" in honor of Holmes' birthday. Also managed to see both kids, to take in "Million Dollar Quartet," and to have some really good meals. Seeing these posts reminds me of the story a friend tells of visiting New York and waking up to a beautiful, crisp fall morning. He ran down the block to pick up a New York Times and turned from the newsstand with his change in his hand (this was when the paper was still less than a buck). He saw a man in a doorway holding a cup, and he went over and deposited the coins into the cup. The man looked at him incredulously. . .

"Hey, that's my coffee, man!"

AR January 16th, 2012 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry43 (Post 1409638)
A few years ago a guy taught a class teaching people to beg for money .

In Manhattan on nearly every corner you can find a person sitting at a table with a large container asking for money .The indication is that you are donating to the Coalition for the Homeless .However ,the containers are sold to people for $100 and the donated money is pocketed .

And then there was the story of the guy who years ago got a job collecting the money from pay phone coin boxes. They gave him his route map and sent him on his way, but they didn't hear a word from him for three weeks, and couldn't contact him. Finally he showed up at the phone company to say he'd lost his key. "We're glad you came in," they said. "We've been holding your paycheck."

He looked surprised. "You mean I get paid too?"

Ron January 16th, 2012 04:24 PM

I've read and re-read several times the Sherlock Holes stories. As it's been some time now since I've read Holmes, I couldn't quite remember the particular " case " involving the beggar.
I used to love to watch Jeremy Brett act the part of Holmes on t.v. and too, I used to love the old black and white Holmes shows starring Basil Rathbone.

AR January 16th, 2012 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron (Post 1410146)
I've read and re-read several times the Sherlock Holes stories. As it's been some time now since I've read Holmes, I couldn't quite remember the particular " case " involving the beggar.
I used to love to watch Jeremy Brett act the part of Holmes on t.v. and too, I used to love the old black and white Holmes shows starring Basil Rathbone.

Way off topic, but if you haven't you should also watch the BBC's modern take on Holmes, simply called "Sherlock," which runs on Masterpiece Mystery on PBS here. The first three episodes from last year will rerun on most PBS stations this month (check local listings), and the second three are just now playing off in England to incredible reviews, but won't be seen here until May (unless you know somebody in England who will send you a DVD).

Both the Jeremy Brett and the Basil Rathbone films are available on DVD in spectacular boxed sets. The Rathbones have been beautifully restored by UCLA. And I'm proud to say that our Red Circle website at www.redcircledc.org helped promote a petition drive last year to urge the British Academy of Film and TV Arts (BAFTA) to give Mr. Brett a long overdue posthumous BAFTA Award. An e-mail just today from England tells me that the first hurdle has been crossed--BAFTA has accepted the petition, and there's much optimism that the obvious error will be corrected, and that the award will finally be given.

And speaking of UCLA, this coming Labor Day Weekend, they'll be doing a three-day seminar of Holmes on Screen, from the silents until now. Top notch people will be teaching, and I intend to be in the front row.

katlady January 16th, 2012 09:14 PM

I learned this lesson as a teenager. I was 17 years old and I lend a male friend money for a concert. He didn't pay me back before the concert. During the concert he made a pass at me. I'm wasn't interested.

After I rejected him he never had the money to pay me back.:mad: So one day I determined I would not leave his house until he paid me back. My mom drove me to the house. He refused to give me the money. He made a quick retreat back into the house. I refused to leave without my money. His mother came out and told my mother and me that I had agreed to pay for his ticket and now I only wanted the money back so I could buy drugs.:shock::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

That was the only time in my life where I have lost my temper to the point I scared myself. It's a real good thing he didn't come outside of the house I would have physical attacked him I'm not kidding. I have never been that mad again. BTW it was completely untrue I never did drugs not my thing. After his mother said that I started screaming every foul thing you can imagine at the house. I called him all matter of things and refusing to leave. His mother threatened to call the police. This did not faze me in the least, not even a little. I just keep yelling. My mom is the only reason I wasn't arrested as she dragged me from the house before the police could be called.

The next day his father came to the house and pay me the money he owed. Saying and I quote "Here is your blood money." My reply was quite friendly "thanks he owed it to me." I don't regret for a minute making the little piece of **** pay me. :twisted:Huh maybe that is why I'm a Tax collector now.LOL I saw him in after of the liquor store, my mom walked passed and he made a snide comment to his friends they started laughing. Then he looked over to see me in the car. I gave him my full on hate look, he paled quite a bit. This big over 6 foot tall guy was afraid of 5 foot female me and well he should be. He is the only person I have scared in my life. I'm a mellow kind of gal normally. He found my hate not too many people can do that. He should be proud. ;)

Ron January 16th, 2012 11:22 PM

Thanks for the info re / S.H. --it's appreciated. I won't stray from the
original topic should I have anything else to say but it seems it's been pretty much covered. I'm too tight and the vault is too small to loan ( give should be the better word! ) money! ;)

Fern January 17th, 2012 09:48 PM

Don't ... !


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