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  #1 (permalink)  
Old May 18th, 2012, 12:19 PM
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Default Checking in from Mexico Interesting Health Care Option

Buenas Dias to you all!

All is fine here in Patzcuaro, Mexico. Our summery weather (April and Early May) is over and the beautiful rainy season has begun with bright and sunny mornings and thunder showers in the late afternoon that last about an hour or two. Soon Michoacan will be as green as Ireland. The terrain here in June, July and August is sooooooo green because of the rains, and the emerald green hills and mountains look nothing like the usual stereotypes of Mexico.

We just found out about a fairly new health insurance program here in Mexico instituted by Phillipe Calderon. It is a completely free health plan for unemployed or retired residents of Mexico. We signed up and were accepted and get this: There are no fees to join. There are no co-pays for any doctor or hospital visits and all hospital stays are paid at 100%. And yes U.S. and Canadian citizens with FM2 or FM3 Immigrant visas are accepted at no cost to the program. And best of all there are zero restrictions for pre-existing conditions and most all of the doctors and better hospitals accept this insurance. It sounds too good to be true but it is true. WOW!

We have a friend that had breast cancer that required surgery and extensive chemo treatments. She had this same "Seguro Popular" insurance and all of her treatments were covered at 100%. She got a second opinion from Sloan Kettering in New York and they said she was getting state of the art care and was probably getting better care then she would in most U.S. hospitals.Out friend·s treatments are over and she has had excellent reports to date.

David and I are quite impressed by the Medical care quality here in Mexico and feel so lucky to have this incredible opportunity.

We are going to the movies today so I·d better sign off. I hope all of our cruisemates are doing well.

Happy Sailing, Chuck Palm
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Old May 18th, 2012, 09:39 PM
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Your situation sounds wonderful!

However, it begs one question. Who pays for all this coverage and if that's the case, how come we in the US are paying literally billions for the healthcare of Mexican nationals many of whom are here illegally?
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Old May 19th, 2012, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by todddh View Post
your situation sounds wonderful!

However, it begs one question. Who pays for all this coverage and if that's the case, how come we in the us are paying literally billions for the healthcare of mexican nationals many of whom are here illegally?
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Old May 19th, 2012, 10:14 AM
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I am so glad to hear from you guys, and glad that things are going well.

I hope the President will use some of that money to stop the killings of it's people. 39 bodies found this week alone, in one place.

How screwed up can things be. Calif offers free medical care, and they are broke. Not free to real citizens, be those who come here without permission.

Mexico offers free med care to two men rich enough to build a house, who are not mexican.:o

Lord help us alllllll!!!!!
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Old May 19th, 2012, 10:26 AM
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Chuck, I wish you and David nothing but peace and happiness. I am glad the two of you found your little slice of heaven.
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Old May 19th, 2012, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
I am so glad to hear from you guys, and glad that things are going well.

I hope the President will use some of that money to stop the killings of it's people. 39 bodies found this week alone, in one place.

How screwed up can things be. Calif offers free medical care, and they are broke. Not free to real citizens, be those who come here without permission.

Mexico offers free med care to two men rich enough to build a house, who are not mexican.:o

Lord help us alllllll!!!!!

Luanne are you okay?

That post does not sound like you!

Happy to hear you guys are enjoying retirement Chuck!

I know you don't miss teaching!

Take Care Luanne!
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Old May 19th, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Will, I am sorry. I feel like I have let you down, and angered Chuck. I did not mean it that way, I am just so worried about what is happening to our country. This was not to
the thread to mention those worries.

I have always cared about Chuck, and and is partner. I want them to be well and happy.

Please forgive me, both of you.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 01:26 AM
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I find it surprising that Mexico is willing to supply free health care to immigrants who've relocted to retire there, considering the economy there isn't particularly booming.

I think it's a good thing, and good that they are giving health care to their unemployed and their retirees. I guess I don't know the system well enough to what happens, or how much the health care option is for those who have jobs, but aren't making much.

While I am truly delighted that Chuck and David are loving their retirement in Mexico, I would imagine those who cross the border to the US by any means possible, obviously aren't enjoying "the good life" there.

As far as all the drug cartel violence mentioned, it's important to remember that the market for all those drugs isn't in Mexico. It's the insatiable market in the US that makes it so very lucrative it's worth enough for mass murder.

I'd also think that unless in dire straits most illegal immigrants in the US would be afraid to seek medical care for fear of being reported.

And, of course, if the illegal immigrants weren't finding jobs in the US, they would stop coming. If they are really unwanted, you only have to stop the employers from hiring them. Not sure why there's no taste for E Verfify down there.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 06:02 AM
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Some very salient points Kuki with one possible exception and that is the migrant seeking medical care.


Last year, approximately EIGHT THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED AND THREE babies of illegal immigrants were born at Parkland Hospital alone, the same hospital in Dallas where President Kennedy was taken when he was shot. The American taxpayer picked up every dime so I guess even those who had jobs paid nothing.

Remember, that is ONE hospital in ONE city.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 07:03 AM
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One other thing, Kuki.

Canada has to its credit in many ways, probably the most open immigration system in this hemisphere. It also, again to its credit affords its residents free medical and I believe dental care.
  1. APPLYING FOR IMMIGRANT VISA OF CANADA UNDER THE HUMANITARIAN AND COMPASSIONATE REASONS.
Under this class, application is made on the basis that if visa is not issued, the applicant will suffer undue hardships.

Let us now say someone cannot find a job, is hungry and needs medical care. I'd say that would fall into the above category as I think you'd agree.

Let's now say about eight million individuals suddenly apply for a visa under the above conditions and because those conditions were met, the Visa's were granted. Now the person remains in Canada for three years legally and therefore is now eligible for citizenship under Canadian law.

Yet the reason above stated does not require other facets of immigration laws regarding emmigrating to Canada such as: having a job, opening a business or being skilled or educated that would otherewise apply.

I therefore wonder what the reaction of the average Canadian would be were such a situation to occur over a four or five month period. Would Canadians be able and or willing to accept the resulting situation.

We are Canada's buffer. What if that buffer, for whatever reason be it political or otherwise, to disappear and all the illegal immigrants to the US even say be provided transportation to the Canadian border.

If you give the above some serious thought combined with the knowledge you have of this country, I think that you would conclude that the majority of the problems we are facing are not actually of our own making other than being lenient as to keeping out illegal immigrants...........immigrants many of which would not be barred from entry into Canada at all.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 10:28 AM
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Well Todd, the Canadian immigration system is actually something I've grown quite familiar with over the last several years.

First off... there is no free dental included in the health care policy... and indeed there really isn't free health care. Higher taxes pay for health care. And it is possible to purchase additional health insurance and dental insurance, covering such things as private rooms in hospitals (when available), ambulance transportation, etc.

It's not as easy as you imply to get a "landed immigrant visa". You can't just say I'm poor, tired and hungry and be accepted.

There are several types of work visas available, if you have a sponsor. Both are under the auspices of a Temporary Work Program. Both have some pretty restrictive rules which apply.

One of the temporary work visas, allows accepted workers into Canada to work for a period of 2 years, if their employer can prove they have tried to hire workers for these positions, but were unable to fill them with resident Canadians. Once that time has passed those temporary workers are required to return to their home countries.

The other type of work visa is what we have for my mother's caregiver. We sponsored her, and it took 18 months for the application to process. We too had to show we couldn't find Canadians to fill the position.

But, the program she came on, allows her to apply for "landed immigrant status" after 3 years in the country. It can then take another 2 years for that application to be processed.

It used to be that once landed immigrant status was granted, they could sponsor other family members (such as parents) to enter the country and get the same status. That is no longer the case. Those in that category are now granted extended visitor Visas, and must leave the country after 6 months. They just don't have to reapply to come back for another visit. A requirement for that visitors visas is they must have travel insurance to enter.

One of our caregivers had her mother here on a visit (not under that program), she became ill (and didnt have travel insurance). As soon as she was stabilized they sent her back to the Phillipines because they couldn't afford to pay the hospital bills that they were responsible for.

Many people in the temporary worker programs thought if they had children, they'd automatically be allowed to stay here, as the babies would be Canadian. That's not the case, because the baby is deemed to be a Canadian citizen, but not until their 18th birthday.

No doubt we have illegal immigrants here. But, once again... if they weren't finding work, they wouldn't stay. Cut off the employers, and you do cut off their ability to stay in the country for any length of time.

BTW... as a Canadian resident I am on allowed to stay in the US 183 days per year, even though I own property there, have travel health insurance, and spend money there, contributing to the American economy.

Another "Canadian thing" the US might want to look at is means testing for Social Security. Here, if your annual income is over a certain threshold, those benefits are "clawed back".

These are all certainly not issues which have a clearly corrective path to solution. But, you good folks have to accept the fact you need to look for solutions,

Does anyone really think you can load all the illegals on buses, trains and airplanes heading south, and that will cure the ills of society?

Doing so would leave all sorts of holes in the US economy. From my last winter in Arizona, I know many have left with the threat of tougher laws (who knows if they just moved to other states), but this year I did notice there are Help Wanted signs out everywhere now. Guess what... many of those jobs go unfilled because too few want those menial, low paying jobs.

And that's the same as here. That's why legal "Temporary Worker Programs" make sense.
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Old May 20th, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Kuki,

Great explanation!

The information I got was from the Canadian government web site. They'd be far better off were they to use you to write their postings....and I truly mean that! That quote about humanitarianism was actually lifted from the site itself!

That is also a great idea for the child to become 18 before becoming a citizen! We should definitely do that here!
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Old May 20th, 2012, 11:20 AM
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I have to agree with Kuki in respect to the hiring of illegal workers. If the jobs were not here the illegal immigration problem would be solved.

I also have first hand experience with the hiring of temporary "offshore" workers to fill positions that can't be filled by citizens.

The bottom line is that corporations are not bringing on offshore workers and obtaining work visas because they cannot find qualified individuals for these "professional" positions. It is all economics. They can bring on an offshore worker for 3/4 to 1/2 the cost of a citizen.

In my last position it was decided that the programming areas would fill their open positions and new projects with offshore workers from India and Pakistan. The agency made them a great deal and the workers were overall quite good. However, the official reason was that hey could not fill the positions with qualified American workers in the time frame required. The real reason and the one that prompted it was purely economic. Companies save so much on salary, benefits, insurance, FICA and other human resource costs that it's hard not to take advantage of it. The official and legal reason of "could not find qualified" American workers was basically BS.

I was on the Technical side and was strongly pushed to do the same. I resisted until my final day with the company. I have absolutely nothing against foreign workers except when it comes to taking local jobs from citizens. The main reason that I was able to resist was that I was able to use my American workers more efficiently and we were able to do more with fewer people thus keeping the HR costs down. Many companies take the "Throw Bodies At It" approach to get things done.

It is somewhat the same with the people who hire illegal immigrants for less professional jobs. They can pay them less. Gee: If you can get your roof re-done for $15,000 from the company that hires illegals or $24,000 from the company that doesn't which one will you choose? When it's time to actually spend the money most people will choose the lower priced option even if they don't approve of it or turn a blind eye.

Take care,
Mike
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Old May 21st, 2012, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
Calif offers free medical care, and they are broke.

Mexico offers free med care to two men rich enough to build a house, who are not mexican.:o

Lord help us alllllll!!!!!
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Old May 21st, 2012, 06:51 AM
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It is somewhat the same with the people who hire illegal immigrants for less professional jobs. They can pay them less. Gee: If you can get your roof re-done for $15,000 from the company that hires illegals or $24,000 from the company that doesn't which one will you choose?

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True, and in addition there is an intangible that nobody likes to talk about: illegal immgrants from Mexico specifically are hard-working, honest, reliable, and pleasant to work with. Americans? -- not so much.

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Old May 21st, 2012, 07:39 AM
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Very true Aidan to some degree (greater or lesser depending upon where you live). Around here, Natural born Americans are as a rule polite, friendly and very hard working. But overall, you're probably correct.

The thing is, that at one time virtually everyone was an immigrant whether they be Irish, Italian, Lithuanian, Polish, you name it. And initially they did the work that no one else would do (just look at turn of the century slums in New York). I am sure that Mexican Nationals will develop the same way, at least those that already haven't.

The problem lies in the number! We absolutely have to find a way to, for lack of a better term, "Stem the tide" simply because we can't afford it. There are way too many working at such a low wage that they can't even be able to begin to afford assisting in their own health care costs, decent housing, etc. and because there are so many the rest of the country can't indefinitely support the astronomical costs involved.

So people say raise the wage to a liveable wage for everyone in this country. That's another fantastic goal but right now even if you did that, the average American wouldn't be able to purchase a loaf of bread!

We are now so far into debt that forget about corporations and millionaires and off shore companies, etc., ad nauseam. If you were to take every friggin' dime they're making it wouldn't even make a dent in the National Debt which just seems to be growing and growing and growing and..........

Greece is the most classical example imaginable. Here people are destroying their own government and country basically because they can no longer afford to retire at the age of fifty! There are of course many additional problems but that is one of the main ones.

In this country there are millions of Americans on some kind of major public assistance because they can't make a living. How then, would someone tell me, they can afford cable TV, automobiles, autombile insurance, four dollar a gallon gasoline, eating out almost daily at fast food restaurants...you name it. And in case you think I'm exaggerating, I used to see that daily and in this little part of the world wherein the problem isn't considered anything nearly as big as in most areas of the country.

I've no idea the answer but somebody better come up with a good one and pretty darned soon as well.
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Old May 21st, 2012, 10:43 PM
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Around here, Natural born Americans are as a rule polite, friendly and very hard working.
, sure. I was born and raised in East Tennessee. The federal government pumped $ billions in today's dollars just to make that part of the country normal. And, yeah, big government spending works. You are posting on this message board right now in a "nice" place to live thanks to the largesse of the federal government's Tennessee Valley Authority. It didn't happen naturally or as a result of the market.


Quote:
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We are now so far into debt that forget about corporations and millionaires and off shore companies, etc., ad nauseam. If you were to take every friggin' dime they're making it wouldn't even make a dent in the National Debt which just seems to be growing and growing and growing and..........
Seriously? 11 years ago the United States was running tremendous budget surpluses. So big that the debt clock in Times Square was turned off and Volcker warned that the country was saving too much.

The same people who are *****ing about deficits now are the same ones who cheered them in 2001, 2, 3, 4, 5 , 6, 7 .... The Vice President said that deficits don't matter, and that only liberal idiots cared about them. The tax-cuts of 2001 were supposed guarantee economic bliss for 2 gazillion years, and the windfall to the "job-creators" meant there would never ever be another recession.

One thing is guaranteed: when the budget is again balanced, and the economy is healthy, the same conservatives will be squealing that the system is unfair, and tax rates must be lowered, and deficits don't matter, etc. We live through it again and again.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 03:16 AM
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Yes, the nation has been in debt prior to today...sometimes a lot of debt but proportionately no where even remotely close to today even when you factor in the value of the dollar over the last decades since the Great Depression. While both productive and expensive TVA certainly didn't have that great of an effect on the overall picture not to mention that ultimately it created unprecedented numbers of jobs so at least there was a significant return on the investment.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to accept the fact that the Second World War ended the Great Depression, hot the CCC or the WPA. Why? Because WWII created jobs but I'm sure because of the slaughter, no one ever wants to go through that again.

So here we are at a stage where we are in a state of debt that is proportionately so enormous as to make any previous debt of this country a ridiculous comparison and that even includes all of the billions spent during WWII. Republicans as well as Democrats are to blame. So much for one sided ubber Liberal philosophy.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 08:26 AM
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So here we are at a stage where we are in a state of debt that is proportionately so enormous as to make any previous debt of this country a ridiculous comparison and that even includes all of the billions spent during WWII.
It's useful to study actual numbers when talking about federal spending, although I have found most conservatives are loathe to do it.

You can whine about President Obama all you want, but he is decreasing the rate of federal spending, not raising it.

Actual increases to the federal ledger from 2002-2009:
Military: ~ $1,400 billion
Tax Cuts: ~ $1,800 billion
Stimulus: ~ $750 billion
Non-military general: ~ $600 billion
Bailouts: ~ $200 billion
Medicare benefits: ~ $180 billion

And increasesfrom 2010 projected to 2017:
Stimulus: ~ $700 billion
Tax cuts: ~ 425 billion
Non-military general: ~ $280 billion
Health reform: ~ $175 billion
Military: no increase
Medicare: no increase
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:21 PM
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In today's Wall Street Journal (that liberal rag!):

Of all the falsehoods told about President Barack Obama, the biggest whopper is the one about his reckless spending spree. In fact, government spending is rising at the slowest pace in nearly 60 years
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 05:39 PM
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Uhhhh......Aidan, did you happen to read that the budget estimates you quoted are based on the assumptions there will be no change in the projections.

Just for the hell of it, when did that last occur over an 8 to 10 year period?

And didn't I also state that the fault lay with both the Republicans AND the Democrats.

Methinks you protest along one line a bit too much
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 05:40 PM
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In today's Wall Street Journal (that liberal rag!):

Of all the falsehoods told about President Barack Obama, the biggest whopper is the one about his reckless spending spree. In fact, government spending is rising at the slowest pace in nearly 60 years
It's good for the truth to come out once in a while.

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Old May 22nd, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Uhhhh......Aidan, did you happen to read that the budget estimates you quoted are based on the assumptions there will be no change in the projections.

Just for the hell of it, when did that last occur over an 8 to 10 year period?

And didn't I also state that the fault lay with both the Republicans AND the Democrats.

Methinks you protest along one line a bit too much
Well, that is certainly a different tone than you previous outlandish comment:

So here we are at a stage where we are in a state of debt that is proportionately so enormous as to make any previous debt of this country a ridiculous comparison and that even includes all of the billions spent during WWII.

You can't have it both ways, Todd. If you are going to make egregious, ridiculous comments you have to expect people will comment on them! And perhaps correct your errors.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 09:26 PM
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Aidan,

One last comment and I'll say no more on this subject.

With all the money spent on the Second World War, it created millions of jobs. No plan the government has presented with which we are currently confronted even begins to meet that committment.

Everyone's at fault as I've said. I don't know how that's egregious a statement. I don't use governmental beauracracies as foundations of fact (such as the CBO (which I used as a large part of my tongue in cheek))simply because everyone and everything in Washington is politically connected and I don't care how "independent" they're supposed to be.

This nation currently is in the most horrific financial condition in history, especially economically. Any person who says otherwise is an absolute idiot, period. They also have no earthly idea what they are talking about.

We must WORK out of this problem......just as we did the Great Depression..not just throw money at it.j I may well be politically incorrect but I'll tell you this,; with exceptions of course (but in reality very little) I believe you don't work...you don't eat. That simple. You're on Welfare that's fine. Then you get out and you build roads and bridges, clean up the streets, rehabilitate living quarters, I don't care what it is as long as it's productive labor. None of this crap about, "I can't work because I have a child to raise."

Even as a law enforcement officer early in my career I had a part time job cleaning toilets and mopping floors in a department store. Yet millions of today's unemployed are, let's just say "too proud" to stoop to such levels yet such levels are what made this country great. It's about time we stopped treating everyone as a candy ass.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
Aidan,

This nation currently is in the most horrific financial condition in history, especially economically. Any person who says otherwise is an absolute idiot, period. They also have no earthly idea what they are talking about.
Simply restoring the tax levels to what they were in the 1990s (when there were balanced budgets), would pump billions of dollars into the "horrific financial condition". We had a balanced budget as recently as 2001. The steps required to return to that requires tax increases, which ruling conservatives will not accept under any circumstances whatsoever ... even if the financial crises destroys the United States.

You can't complain on one hand about a "horrific financial condition" and on the other say we cannot use the most obvious means to fix it.
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Old May 22nd, 2012, 10:30 PM
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Guys, Chuck was checking in to let us know how they were doing.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 10:43 PM
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Guys, Chuck was checking in to let us know how they were doing.
Sometimes we get carried away.

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Old May 23rd, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Hi guys.

I didnīt mean for this to become a political hot potato. I merely was checking in amd pointing out that in some countries health care is considered a need and perhaps a moral responsibility... and efforts are being made to find new and creative ways to meet these difficult challenges.

As for the comments about the cartel killings. Calderon has arrested or killed over two thirds of those considered "serious threats." He is working hard to make things better. This rarely is seen in the U.S. press.

To date David and I have seen zero acts of violence and we feel extremely safe wherever we go at any time of the day or night.

As we alll know there are frequent drug related killings in most U.S. cities that never even meet the threshold to become news items.And thousands of persons are in prison serving time for drug related offenses in many countries including the U,S. and Mexico. And of course if there was no demand for these drugs, there would not be a problem in either country.

At any rate, David and I are very happy, very safe, and feel even safer because of this wonderful free insurance for which we were approved.

Hasta Luego Mi Amables :-D:-D
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Chuck, I wish you well.

I myself, enjoy living in the USA.

We do have problems here, but I would not live any place else.

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Old May 23rd, 2012, 02:12 PM
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Chuck, David..thanks for checking in. Life sounds like it's treating you right. I would love to see some pictures of the completed villa, when you can, I'm sure it's fabulous.

Everybody's idea of paradise is different, glad you found yours.
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