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  #31 (permalink)  
Old June 1st, 2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by anniegb View Post
Sorry

Have I missed something? The topic of this thread - what is poor?

BTW my BP is 117/47

Annie
Poor people are usually not able to afford good medical care and therefore likely to have high or low blood pressure .
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old June 1st, 2012, 12:18 PM
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Poor people are usually not able to afford good medical care and therefore likely to have high or low blood pressure .
Sorry Henry - I am lost - how does income relate to high or low blood pressure?

In our family, we can visit a doctor anytime we want at no cost, one half of the family has low BP and the other high BP; sorry genetics. I am in the lucky half - low BP - the doctors are always shocked they have to doublecheck the reading

BTW we are all broadly in the same income bracket.

Annie

PS who buys canned soup? Make your own - maybe that is the key - cook meals from basic ingredients.

I wonder how many of the 'diet companies' are owned by the food industry? Truth is IMHO - the food and even dare I say it the health industries want us to stay fat.

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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:07 PM
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Ya know, I realize that this particular board is wide-ranging and freewheeeling, but at some point off-topic is off-topic and requires some sort of intervention.

Since the moderators aren't inclined to step in. . .


A few notes on the original subject:


1. Let's keep waste, fraud and abuse out of the conversation, because I don't know anyone who favors it, and I doubt that you do either. The fact that cheating exists is not in itself a fair condemnation of good faith efforts to help the less fortunate.


2. Nor is having an automobile. I find it odd that people who need to work and want to work would be faulted for having the means to get to work.


3. A poverty line set at $22,000 for a family seems, if anything, low. . .at least here in the Eastern Megalopolis. Perhaps elsewhere it is not. In case anyone doubts it, that $22,000 number is the 2011 poverty line for a family of four in the contiguous 48. Alaska and Hawaii have separate numbers which are somewhat higher, because the high cost of living is recognized in those places, but not elsewhere. The definition of poverty that generates these numbers is "the inability of the family to acquire the basic needs of life that the rest of society takes for granted."

4. It follows then that assistance for the impoverished should first take the form of the basic needs of food, shelter and clothing. Beyond that, educational opportunities should be paramount. And beyond that, providing the opportunity for parents to work should have strong support. . .things like after-school programs for kids. Finally, basic preventive and chronic health care is a must. . .and delivered in settings other than emergency rooms (the most expensive way to do it).

5. I don't know where Todd gets his references to cell phones, air conditioning and cable TV, but they're clearly not in the universe of "basic needs." Although a telephone of some sort surely is these days.

6. Finally, all the righteous indignation about providing assistance to illegal immigrants might be well taken, IF the United States had a sensible, smart, compassionate and forward-looking approach to immigration as a whole. . .an approach that was thoughtfully developed and universally enforced. But since both parties have scandalously failed to institute such a policy for decades, it's a tad disingenuous--and probably counterproductive--to try to put a band aid on a failed approach to immigration via the public assistance route.
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Last edited by AR; June 1st, 2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by anniegb View Post
Sorry Henry - I am lost - how does income relate to high or low blood pressure?

In our family, we can visit a doctor anytime we want at no cost, one half of the family has low BP and the other high BP; sorry genetics. I am in the lucky half - low BP - the doctors are always shocked they have to doublecheck the reading

BTW we are all broadly in the same income bracket.

Annie

PS who buys canned soup? Make your own - maybe that is the key - cook meals from basic ingredients.


I wonder how many of the 'diet companies' are owned by the food industry? Truth is IMHO - the food and even dare I say it the health industries want us to stay fat.
I did NOT change the drift of this thread ,I merely replied to the person that did .
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Old June 1st, 2012, 02:14 PM
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How did this thread sway off topic...GO TO POST #22 written by Henry43...he starts with fast food restaurants...that is the turning point of this entire thread. The same author Henry43 in post # 24 completely throws this thread off course.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 02:16 PM
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I did NOT change the drift of this thread ,I merely replied to the person that did .
Henry.. think you need to re-read the thread...

First off topic post was

Quote:
I've been to parts of South America where there are McDonalds on almost every street corner and the kids walk around without shoes .America is trying to nationalize the world .
From there it continued to wander in the twilght zone, with further help from you.

It's not at all uncommon. In fact I'd say at least 80% of the threads you post to you drive into the off topic ditch.

If there's a thread of thought tying them to the original topic, I think only you know it
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Old June 1st, 2012, 02:58 PM
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I saw the same show as Todd, and the reporter interviewed people in NY in a soup line. They talked about having tv's, phones, cable, cars.

I am not sure 'Poor" is clearly defined these days. As AR said, the area you live in makes a huge difference.

I am also worried that we have become a not so much poor, but what can you give me for free these days.

I am not sure how anyone could be poor with all of the many benefits going on. Free lunches in the schools. Food stamps, welfare, free cell phones, help with electricity, rent.etc.

I collected unmployment once in my life. It was for 130 a week, and it lasted 9 weeks. This was in the 70's.

Today unemployment last 2 years, and the average is 500 a week.

I also made a mistake in my message that drives me crazy when someone else says it. There is no such thing as free. It might be free to the one getting it, but someone must pay.

My favorite FREE is education. You hear it all the time. It's not free. It is paid for by us. If the money was spent on educating our young people, and stop all the crap of paying for the politicians, then maybe we could get out of the country wondering if they are poor.

One of my favorite sayings is "Feed a man a fish, and he eats for the day. Teach a man to fish and he eats everyday."

The only thing I can think of to get this mess straightened out is for someone to come along who can use common sense.

I hope there is someone left with Common sense.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old June 1st, 2012, 04:19 PM
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Thanks folks for an interesting discussion and now for me at least, some closing remarks and observations

What constitutes being poor? I'll say now, I happen to agree completely with LuAnne.

But let's look at definitions and what is provided.

1. There is no Federal Welfare payment. What there is, however, is SSI (or Supplementary Security Income). That is not much at all (probably today not much over $600 a month at that). Additionally, contrary to the belief of probably 3/4ths of the citizenry (including yours truly at one time), SSI IS NOT from Social Security money but the program is administered by Social Security.

2. To receive SSI, one must be declared disabled. Since millions of very low income people in this country receive SSI, then it demonstrates that we must have an astronomical disabled population. It's either that or the definition of "disabled" is, shall we say, rather broad?

States have every right to enhance SSI payments and offer additional monies and benefits from state coffers. That is why in some areas, the person living on welfare and not working may well be enjoying a style of living for which his/her next door neighbor is working 8 hours a day, five days a week or even longer. This is why most cash payments to welfare recipients are from the citizens of individual states on top of their tax money that goes to fund SSI (and may also be why many such states are bankrupt but I shan't touch that with the proverbial ten foot pole). Each state has the right to enhance SSI should they so choose. This is why in some states, when one totals all the benefits a welfare recipient receives we can be talking of maybe as much as $40,000 annually, all footed by the taxpayer who is working. Tennessee does not enhance SSI payments.

I'm going out on a limb here but I believe that probably Henry and I have on this thread, the most knowledge of the system; Henry because he worked for NYC Social Services and I because I ran two low income apartment complexes. As I have said before, both sites are absolutely gorgeous and crime free (as I've previously stated, I also was awarded Elderly Site Manager of the Year by the United States Dept. of Agriculture for the State of Tennessee. I say that not as a hunt for pats on the back but merely to establish what I believe such experience provides me a mountain of bona fides when it comes to discussing public housing, governmental assistance, etc., ad nauseam).

I have had young people say they have no income whatsoever and therefore cannot pay any rent so they want what is known as Total Rental Assistance. Yet these same folks drive cars, have cable TV, eat out virtually every meal of which I'm aware, etc. My reply always was, "In that case, who makes your car payments, your car insurance payment and who buys your gasoline? Who pays for your cable TV which I know that you currently enjoy? Who pays for your food at the local choke and puke? Of course they have answers to each. Then came the fun part. As they have been answering I have been writing down figures (unbeknownst to them). I then tell them they therefore have income, what that approximate income probably is and it's just that they're not working for it. Nevertheless, those benefits cost money and are therefore classified as income. I always wanted to mount a hidden camera to take a picture of their faces when they heard the results. I never had a tenant who had literally "no income" for longer that four and a half weeks. My requirement for receiving assistance was very simple and that is, that if they were able in some tangible manner to at least try to better their situation, then I would bend over backwards to provide them with a truly nice apartment home.

There are millions of deserving poor, especially our seniors to such an extent that my heart breaks. I know, I've seen it. But remember, most of these people (Especially the senrios who are dying off rapidly) did not have the benefits nor ever receive the proportionate salaries of even the minimum wage employee as do many of us. They lived hand to mouth on a daily basis most of their working lives during which many did true, back breaking labor.

There are also most certainly working folk because of economic conditions temporarily deserve all the assistance we can provide just as there are many for whom we must provide virtually everything.

But what IMO of which we've lost sight, is that we now and have for sometime, thrown so much money at so many who in reality, deserve little to nothing. I know folks. I saw it every day as I'm sure did Henry. I also think even following the current economic downturn, the problem will only worsen.

Finally, an adult's first responsibilities are a roof over the head and food on the table, especially for his/her children. In the worst economic conditions I always knew that I could and would fulfill at least those two obligations. Sadly, today there are literally millions of Americans, many of them young, who do not feel that way and for that we only have ourselves to blame.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old June 1st, 2012, 05:46 PM
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Sorry Todd

I am still interested to learn how much of the $22K income a family would have to pay for health cover.

Thanks

Annie
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Old June 1st, 2012, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by buttons16 View Post
How did this thread sway off topic...GO TO POST #22 written by Henry43...he starts with fast food restaurants...that is the turning point of this entire thread. The same author Henry43 in post # 24 completely throws this thread off course.
You changed the drift of the thread with post #25 .I've been nice to you .I've been correcting your incorrectly spelled words without saying anything .
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Old June 1st, 2012, 07:28 PM
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Henry.. think you need to re-read the thread...

First off topic post was



From there it continued to wander in the twilght zone, with further help from you.

It's not at all uncommon. In fact I'd say at least 80% of the threads you post to you drive into the off topic ditch.

If there's a thread of thought tying them to the original topic, I think only you know it

I have read your threads going back to 2002 . I would venture to say that at leasr 30% of my posted are exactly what you have posted . You seem to derive pleasure in "attacking " me . I have addressed this with several CM regulars and they all are in agreement .
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Old June 1st, 2012, 08:42 PM
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Annie,

I'm sorry I didn't directly answer your question the answer for which varies.

One can get coverage for $700 annually BUT the deductible would probably be at least $7.500 before the coverage kicked in including prescription drugs. If one thought they had a good chance of becoming chronically ill, then it wouldn't be that bad but of course, no one knows what the future brings.

As retired law enforcement I have a comprehensive Medicare Supplementary policy that costs me only about $56 a month including prescription drug benefits with very low copays (had I paid retail my prescriptions last year would have run over $7,700 but for which I paid only about $600). I do have, however, a $1,500 deductible on much of the medical. Nonetheless I am lucky in that I have a top notch health insurance program but remember, back when I "went on the job" 40 years ago, one understood that the pay was lower than the corporate world but the benefits were not only greater but guaranteed if you lived long enough to retire (I don't mean necessarily by getting shot but many many law enforcement officers die of strokes and heart attacks while in their forties and fifties - for instance a Harvard study estimated that a member of my department (in the eighties) had a life expectancy of only 56 years)). At least I've made it to 65!

Hope this answered your question satisfactorily. If not, let me know and I'll do more research for you.

Consequently my benefits are better than most but then one could probably honestly say (at least in this country) they were honestly earned and paid for up front.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by anniegb View Post
Sorry Todd

I am still interested to learn how much of the $22K income a family would have to pay for health cover.

Thanks

Annie
In my part of the country, Minnesota, a family can pay anywhere from $300/month to $1200/month for a family of four. The cost depends on deductibles and levels of coverage.

My daughter is a Veterinarian and has her own policy for four people. It is a fairly good policy with reasonable deductibles and co-pays. Her cost is $540/month.

There is also a MNCare plan (State Health Care) that is quite good and costs around $120/month for an individual. I am not sure of the cost for a family.

Take care,
Mike
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:00 AM
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I have read your threads going back to 2002 . I would venture to say that at leasr 30% of my posted are exactly what you have posted . You seem to derive pleasure in "attacking " me . I have addressed this with several CM regulars and they all are in agreement .
Not so Henry... there is no pleasure, and I'm not attacking you. What you see as "attacking" you is me pointing out when you continually derail ongoing threads.

I attempt to do so with some humor, but sadly you seem to keep missing the point.

Why do I do it? Precisely because I do hear from not just "several CM regulars" , but quite a number of them with negative comments regarding that issue.

I'd love to see you post to your hearts content, and for you to be happy doing so, honest. But adopting other people's threads to whatever direction you feel like taking it isn't a particularly nice thing to do.

Very simple really.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:05 AM
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In my part of the country, Minnesota, a family can pay anywhere from $300/month to $1200/month for a family of four. The cost depends on deductibles and levels of coverage.

My daughter is a Veterinarian and has her own policy for four people. It is a fairly good policy with reasonable deductibles and co-pays. Her cost is $540/month.

There is also a MNCare plan (State Health Care) that is quite good and costs around $120/month for an individual. I am not sure of the cost for a family.

Take care,
Mike
There seems to be a large discrepency in health insurance pricing in the US. I'm sure some is associated with deductibles etc.
But, my sister who lives in Arizona tells me they pay $2000 per mnth for just the two of them (she and her husband).

My golf buddy friend who spends time in Arizona, but who is from Chicago, tells me that he and his wife pay $2400/mnth for the 2 of them.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
In my part of the country, Minnesota, a family can pay anywhere from $300/month to $1200/month for a family of four. The cost depends on deductibles and levels of coverage.

My daughter is a Veterinarian and has her own policy for four people. It is a fairly good policy with reasonable deductibles and co-pays. Her cost is $540/month.

There is also a MNCare plan (State Health Care) that is quite good and costs around $120/month for an individual. I am not sure of the cost for a family.

Take care,
Mike
Mike/Todd thanks

I did know that costs varied depending upon where you stayed.

Whatever way you look at it - it is quite a chunk of change esp if you are a family living on $22K - sorry I meant to ask if that is pre-tax or post-tax income?

I retired early through ill health and I am pleased to say I pay zilch and fortunately my health has improved.

Someone somewhere is making too much money out of ill-health and I for one deplore that.

Annie
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 08:00 AM
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Kuki and Annie

Yes, it's almost impossible to find apples-to-apples comparisons of health insurance policies in the US. It is universally frustrating and confusing to all and unfair to many. Here are some of the things that cause wide variations in premiums:

1. Whether or not you have access to a "group," known as a "risk pool," through an employer, former employer, trade group, etc. If you don't, individual policies cost more.

2. Often, what state you live in.

3. Whether or not an employer or former employer pays part of the premium. There are many who do this for current employees, and there are still some who do it for their retirees.

4. As has been mentioned, policies vary widely with regard to what's covered, deductibles and co-pays. There are also variations with regard to your ability to see any doctor you like. Some less expesive plans limit you to certain doctors within a managed system (HMO). All these factors and others impact the policy's price.

5. There are wide variations in the cost and benefits of various plans that cover entire families. Some cover all kids for a fixed premium, ironically giving the larger benefit to larger families. In some cases, a husband and wife with no kids pay the same premium as a family of eight.

6. For retirees 65 and older, things are a little simpler (in theory at least). Medicare is standardized and nationwide. It covers roughly 80% of your costs (exclusive of drugs) and the premium is around $100 a month. You have the option of buying a supplementary policy (nicknamed "Medigap" plans) to cover all or part of what Medicare does not. These policies are offered by many different insurers, but by law the coverages must be uniform. In other words, a "Plan F" policy, which is pretty much the gold standard policy that picks up virtually everything that Medicare does not, is exactly the same policy no matter which company you buy it from. Therefore, you can shop price knowing that the coverages are identical. Seniors then are faced with buying a separate prescription drug policy under what is known as Medicare Part D. Medicare subsidizes these plans, but they vary widely in coverage and costs, with different copays, different prices for different drugs, and a host of other things including the infamous "donut hole" which I wont even try to explain.

In short, medical insurance in this country is a godawful mess. There are winners and losers, depending on your employment situation, your employment history, and your ability to understand what's available to you and to employ due diligence to figure out your best deal. It isn't easy and most people are not up to the task. They often pay dearly, or they wind up with no coverage at all, presenting themselves at emergency rooms for every ailment and depending on the rest of us to foot the bill.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 08:17 AM
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Thanks AR

What a godawful mess indeed.

So a senior citizen who decided to buy theses top-up policies can end up paying how much per month? There must be many who cannot afford them.

Unlike Todd, my concern is not for the old but for the young, The 'baby boomers' in the UK are doing relatively well and their children and grandchildren will have to work a lot harder and longer to enjoy an equivalent standard of living.

Now I know I should butt out - but if you pay federal and state taxes and you cannot obtain medical care free at the point of need - what is happening with the money? I know you have a huge military budget - but here I agree with Henry - that has to be scaled back - painful as that will be.

Unfortunately I cannot see the system in the US changing simply because there are too many vested interests.

Anyway thanks for all the info - for me very enlightening and I did not think I was that ignorant on the subject

Annie
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kuki View Post
There seems to be a large discrepency in health insurance pricing in the US. I'm sure some is associated with deductibles etc.
But, my sister who lives in Arizona tells me they pay $2000 per mnth for just the two of them (she and her husband).

My golf buddy friend who spends time in Arizona, but who is from Chicago, tells me that he and his wife pay $2400/mnth for the 2 of them.
That is comparable with the little I know.

How can you afford premiums like that out of an income of $22K?

Annie
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Not so Henry... there is no pleasure, and I'm not attacking you. What you see as "attacking" you is me pointing out when you continually derail ongoing threads.

I attempt to do so with some humor, but sadly you seem to keep missing the point.

Why do I do it? Precisely because I do hear from not just "several CM regulars" , but quite a number of them with negative comments regarding that issue.

I'd love to see you post to your hearts content, and for you to be happy doing so, honest. But adopting other people's threads to whatever direction you feel like taking it isn't a particularly nice thing to do.

Very simple really.

Check and see how many CM regulars no longer post here .Why do you think they left ?
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
In my part of the country, Minnesota, a family can pay anywhere from $300/month to $1200/month for a family of four. The cost depends on deductibles and levels of coverage.

My daughter is a Veterinarian and has her own policy for four people. It is a fairly good policy with reasonable deductibles and co-pays. Her cost is $540/month.

There is also a MNCare plan (State Health Care) that is quite good and costs around $120/month for an individual. I am not sure of the cost for a family.

Take care,
Mike
I have insurance where I work that just covers me. I asked how much it would cost to have my wife put on the plan I was told $600 a month.That seems lot alot to me.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:04 AM
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I have free health insurance for life as does my wife . We have one of the best plans available to the public .
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:54 AM
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I have free health insurance for life as does my wife . We have one of the best plans available to the public .

Henry... that is wonderful for you and your wife.

How and why you have that coverage would be interesting to know. Was that part of a compensation package you/she received from a company you worked for?

If so, were they private companies which were "union shops"- who negotiated that coverage as part of a compensation package , or a government body, which would also likely be a union job?

The reason I ask is obviously someone pays for that coverage. So, it makes it interesting, and somewhat relevant to the topic of "what is being poor".
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:34 PM
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Annie,

Yes, as has been pointed out, we have an enormous military budget that must and will be cut back. However, that alone wouldn't even begin to make that much of a difference even if all of those saving went into healthcare. As a matter of fact, percentage wise, the American Military budget has declined from 50% of the National Budget in 1960 to 19% (or less) today.

The fears over here are basically the same as yours. As we, the baby boomers age we outnumber our children who are having to "foot the bill" a burden that is intolerably unfair. Yet this country, independent of political party etc., continues to throw money (billions and even trillions) into what most of us would consider if not totally unjustified, at least unnecessary programs and schemes. The problem is, these involve enhancements of which I think are provided just in exchange for votes....something with which I believe you in Scotland and Great Britain are quite familiar, are recognizing and beginning to address. they're doing the same in Greece and look what is happening.

One of the major reason for the riots is that the average Greek would be unable to retire with full benefits, etc. at age FIFTY! Greece is now in the position most of us are headed and Greece should be held up as a "wake-up" call. The problem is, the people won't tolerate giving anything up, ergo the riots, government turnovers, etc.



One major political move in this country is very simple, "Tax the hell out of the rich" something that Great Britain has been doing for years now yet today Britain is also in terrible economic shape that is directly negatively effecting healthcare. The problem in that theory is you not only take away initially a propensity for attempting to become wealthy (which is "why do it when it's going to all be taken away from me"; the basis for a free enterprise system) but it doesn't provide actuarily any extended benefit even if one took every cent over one million dollars that the rich make. Actually it wouldn't really even make a dent in the over all scheme of things just as it hasn't on a smaller scale in Great Britain. Can the rich pay more in taxes? Definitely and they should.....but not to the point that you make them the scapegoat for all of your financial woes. BTW, the overwhelming amount of stock in this country is ulitmately owned by investment companies that support retirement plans for working stiffs so in effect, the average American can in a way own a lot of stock and not even know it. Believe it or not, there are working people with company provided health insurance policies that are actively involved in the "Down with Wall Street" movement or whatever it's called. They don't realize that if they succeed, guess who loses their health insurance?

Another small example would be the free cell phones for the poor, a program many believe has merit. I can understand that it does have merit but nothing is "free." Someone has to pay for it. In this case the "free" cell phones will this year alone probably cost the American taxpayer over two billion dollars. Now which would you even in Scotland prefer: two billion going to free cell phones or two billion going into healthcare for the poor? It's all a matter of priorities.
"

We are currently involved in a financial global mess of our own making. To get out of it everyone is going to have to "bite the bullet" yet the majority would rebel to a huge extent were that to happen so, I honestly don't know what the answer is except to say the ranks of the poor are growing (which is a true shame on us all).
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kuki View Post
There seems to be a large discrepency in health insurance pricing in the US. I'm sure some is associated with deductibles etc.
But, my sister who lives in Arizona tells me they pay $2000 per mnth for just the two of them (she and her husband).

My golf buddy friend who spends time in Arizona, but who is from Chicago, tells me that he and his wife pay $2400/mnth for the 2 of them.
Holy Moley Rock!! That is the highest premiums I've ever heard of even with a zero deductable.

We are transitioning from Betty's group insurance to a Medicare Cost plan for her and a standard plan for me. The total cost per month for both of us including the Medicare premium is $510. That is with a $1000 annual deductible and $10 co/pay on generic medications and a maximum of $40 on non-formulary medications. The new coverage is actually better than the group plan Betty had through her employer. (lower deductible) The plans also covers us out of the country for emergency care.


I guess there is a big difference.

Take care,
Mike
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 01:03 PM
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Todd

You may or not be aware that the NHS is different north and south of the border.

I love the NHS - but I would introduce some modest charges in Scotland.

Now you talk about free cell phones - not if I was in charge but we def do NOT provide them in the UK.

Yes the state retirement age is transitioning upwards in the UK as everywhere.

One of the reasons why UK did NOT join the Euro was because the Treasury saw the bill for European pensions coming down the track and thought - no we don't want that bill thank you very much.

FYI the Greek Defence budget is greater than the UK Defence budget but we outnumber them 6:1 - go figure.

It is the greedy baby boomers who really annoy me ; imagine a large pension with free travel, free prescriptions, additional tax allowances and a contribution towards your heating allowance.

I think it is time the Finance ministries had more women - guess who balances most household budgets?

But you can't just balance budgets by reducing expenditure - you also have to grow income.

I am very guilty in that most of my discretionary spend is not within the UK economy.

I don't know the answer because I'm not smart enough.

Annie
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
Holy Moley Rock!! That is the highest premiums I've ever heard of even with a zero deductable.

We are transitioning from Betty's group insurance to a Medicare Cost plan for her and a standard plan for me. The total cost per month for both of us including the Medicare premium is $510. That is with a $1000 annual deductible and $10 co/pay on generic medications and a maximum of $40 on non-formulary medications. The new coverage is actually better than the group plan Betty had through her employer. (lower deductible) The plans also covers us out of the country for emergency care.


I guess there is a big difference.

Take care,
Mike
Hi Mike

I am surprised you are surprised at the level of premiums.

All my friends whether in California or New York State or wherever pay premiums of upwards $1000 pp pm.

How can you afford it out of a 'poor' income of $22K per year?

Annie
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 01:56 PM
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You changed the drift of the thread with post #25 .I've been nice to you .I've been correcting your incorrectly spelled words without saying anything .
Sorry Henry, But you started to sway off topic PRIOR to post # 25...As I said you started at post #22. I was only answering your topic that started to veer off track.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 02:06 PM
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I own my own business...I pay huge amounts of money for Partial health care for my employees. Even partial payment is out off control.

I also pay other fee's required by the state of Pennsylvania and my employees are covered in full for any auto accident.

For those fees I charge an extra 1.00 per trip that each employee completes. I have to have those huge expenses absorbed somewhat. Fuel is split on a 60% - 40% rate with myself paying for 40% of the fuel costs. The total amount each driver makes is split 50 - 50...I supply the autos and 2 way radios with no rental fee.

I will admit my employees will not get rich but they will be able to afford a roof over their heads and food on the table. I also give each driver their birthday off with their average pay included...no other car service operator does that. I have very low turn over rate.

If however I decide to sell my business to a person who is begging me to do...I cannot guarrentee they will be treated the same way. I appreciate my hard workers and it shows in the work they do.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 03:57 PM
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Thanks AR

So a senior citizen who decided to buy theses top-up policies can end up paying how much per month? There must be many who cannot afford them.

Annie
Typically, $100 a month for basic Medicare, about $125 a month for top drawer Medigap (no deductibles, no co-pays), and about $70 for a good prescription drug plan (no co-pays for generic drugs). All rolled up, a senior can usually get decent coverage for a bit under $300 a month. Not cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anniegb View Post
If you pay federal and state taxes and you cannot obtain medical care free at the point of need - what is happening with the money? I know you have a huge military budget - but here I agree with Henry - that has to be scaled back - painful as that will be.

Annie
Correct about the huge military budget. The other factor is that although we do pay federal and state taxes, they are simply not enough to cover an "entitlement" package for our citizens that is as comprehensive as we might like. And as I'm sure you know, one political party is marching in lockstep against any tax increases for any reason under any circumstances. Tremendous amounts of money flow to this party from insurance companies and other special interests that benefit from the status quo and would be hurt by change.

Our politicians are bought-and-paid-for pretty much across the board; they act in the interests of themselves and their big donors, and everybody else is on their own. It's a jungle out here, and only the fittest survive. In this context fitness includes getting an education, working a long career, understanding personal financial planning in the 21st century and making all the right moves, understanding the cost/benefit equation regarding children, and a bit of luck.

Everybody else is pretty much financially doomed.
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