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  #91 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2012, 08:17 PM
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Did a post get deleted? I didn't see the one about the NRA wanting the welfare cards used on guns.
Luanne, I'm half tempted to go through their press release files to find them taking positions like that, but I really don't care enough to do it. I am quite certain that the NRA would be perfectly happy to have guns purchased by any payment method known to man, as long as it wasn't being done by criminals. And welfare recipients aren't necessarily criminals.

If others here can trash the First Amendment when it's convenient (and they do), then I can look askance at the Second.

But that's not the subject of the thread, and I don't want to go too far OT.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2012, 08:52 PM
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I was truely just asking if I had missed something. I am not disputing what you are saying.

If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then Poor=stupid. That can't be fixed by the gov. as long as people get away with it.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2012, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
I was truely just asking if I had missed something. I am not disputing what you are saying.

If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then Poor=stupid. That can't be fixed by the gov. as long as people get away with it.
That's for sure.

Look back at post 89, the bolded part that quotes the LA Times. Gun shops were among the places lumped in with cruise lines, bail bondsmen, etc. that used to take welfare debit cards before the state cracked down.

In my admittedly tongue-in-cheek crack, I suggested that the NRA might well question why any law-abiding citizen can't buy a gun with welfare money, no matter how poor they are. Whether or not they've mounted a specific lobbying effort in that regard, I can assure you that the subject was discussed at length around a big wooden conference table just a few miles from where I'm sitting.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old June 8th, 2012, 01:13 AM
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This won't go down with those who believe anyone without a criminal record should own a gun or those on welfare should, but I've been called everything in the book prior to this so why not say my piece.

I have always said that any American should have the right to own a firearm but by that I should actually say they must have the proven privilege to do so. As a former law enforcement officer and as a member of one of the one of the better police firearms instructors in the US (not my opinion, but that of a professional analysis (and yes, that includes the FBI) and one who has taught literally hundreds (probably over a thousand) how to properly use and care for firearms, I'll say the following:

1. Anyone owning a firearm should be able to demonstrate to a responsible knowledgeable instructor that they know how to safely use and handle the weapon (be it for hunting reasons or personal protection).

2. I think that firearms should be owned by responsible people and by that I mean those who have demonstrated basic responsibilities one would expect from any adult and (this will really get me in trouble) I personally don't think that the majority of those on long term welfare can necessarily do that although there would, of course, be exceptions (have to be politically correct here, you know). I admit that I go if not completely (times do change) but in great part by the Constitution as opposed to the current "currently popular" application of the Constitution.

3. I am not in favor of the average citizen owning a fully automatic weapon as I don't perceive the current need to do so. Please notice the accentuation.

4. Many of those who make statements about the above subject know doodly squat about their topic. I don't mean our Cruisemates necessarily but those in general, especially those who base their comments on personal reasons or personal opinions of the Constitution (and that includes a whole lot of attorneys.......as is proven daily in courts across this country).

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  #95 (permalink)  
Old June 8th, 2012, 12:47 PM
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By the way, related stories explain that the really big winners in the California benefits debit cards are (drum roll please). . .the BANKS...They charge usurious fees...
And I thank you for that, California.

A good proportion of our retirement income is invested in Bank stocks. So when those evil monsters the BANKS make a profit, we get a dividend which allows us to go cruising. Our return on investment is about 4%. I really don't think that is usurious.

The BANK does not get to cruise, the stockholders do. Somehow saying that BANKS make millions of dollars outrages the public a lot more than saying that MercedMike makes a couple of thousand to pay for a cruise.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 07:31 PM
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And I thank you for that, California.

A good proportion of our retirement income is invested in Bank stocks. So when those evil monsters the BANKS make a profit, we get a dividend which allows us to go cruising. Our return on investment is about 4%. I really don't think that is usurious.

The BANK does not get to cruise, the stockholders do. Somehow saying that BANKS make millions of dollars outrages the public a lot more than saying that MercedMike makes a couple of thousand to pay for a cruise.

I've used your rationale from time to time too, not only with banks, but with oil companies, pharmaceuticals, etc. I look in the portfolio, see that we own them, and feel a little better when I discover that their bad behavior is enriching us.

But all of us who have portfolios are the fortunate ones, and at the end of the day that sort of argument is an ethical copout. When a company or a sector of companies abuses its customers in one way or another as banks--especially the big ones--have done, the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" argument starts to ring a bit hollow, even though, as I've said, I've used it myself.

These days though, we've been actively involved with our finacial planner to purge investments and investment management houses that we feel are not worthy of our custom, even if they're performing reasonably well.

We've decided that we must stand for something besides the bottom line, so we're looking more and more toward companies that we think can do well by doing good.

Call us naive if you like; we've invested reasonably well for over 40 years, and we won't starve going this route.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 09:20 PM
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1. Anyone owning a firearm should be able to demonstrate to a responsible knowledgeable instructor that they know how to safely use and handle the weapon (be it for hunting reasons or personal protection).
I am a Benefactor Member of the NRA, which for those not knowing is the highest paid membership level. It's like being a Pinnacle Club loyalty member with Royal Caribbean.

I actually agree with what Todd said, which likely offends more than a few of my fellow NRA members. "Responsible knowledgeable instructor" should also include previous military firearms training, Boy Scout firearms training, and so forth. In other words, I shouldn't have to jump through a hoop today when I have documentation from years past.

Too many people are wandering around with guns that they are not qualified to use. And to stay on topic, many of them are in poverty situations where the use of the firearm is more likely.

And just as a note, I qualified as both a Rifle and Pistol Expert in the Marine Corps so I think I fit the requirements for firearms ownership. I've also had a concealed carry permit for 30 years.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old June 8th, 2012, 09:38 PM
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It should be noted that poor people, who live in poor neighborhoods, do not need to buy a gun the right way. They simply have to buy one on the street corner.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old June 9th, 2012, 12:57 AM
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It should be noted that poor people, who live in poor neighborhoods, do not need to buy a gun the right way. They simply have to buy one on the street corner.
Yeah, but it's not limited to poor neighborhoods.

I got to thinking about my year on a federal grand jury. Every time somebody got arrested for having more than a certain amount of an illegal drug, they'd automatically be charged with possession with intent to distribute. The large amount, even without further evidence of sales to others, doesn't pass the smell test (or is it the sniff test?) and at the federal level at least is in iteself probable cause that the intent is to resell.

And yet people can buy unlimited numbers of guns with impunity. Yes, I know that they're both legal (unlike drugs) and that there is such a thing as a legitimate collector.

But lots of collectors have a collection of 40 identical semi-automatic weapons with oversize clips which, though it pains them to break up such a fine set, might be willing to part with one for the right price.

I did see a story that a guy was arrested for having 40,000 rounds of ammunition in his house. The police didn't buy the "I'm just trying to protect my family" story and got him for public endangerment, saying that under the right conditions the guy could blow up his block.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old June 9th, 2012, 01:41 AM
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AR, You are right, it is not limited to the poor neighborhoods, but I wanted to stay on topic.

There will always be those who do not follow the rules, those who make the good people look bad, but for the most part, people who buy legally, train to use them, are good people, who respect the laws.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old June 9th, 2012, 05:06 AM
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Dave,

The part I miss most about being an LEO was upon retirement I had to relinquish my Federal rights to have in my possession my favorite weapon and no, it wasn't fully automatic. It was a Remington Mdl. 1100 Semi-Automatic 12 Ga. Shotgun with a 12 inch barrel and a Pachmyer pistol grip.

If you've ever shot pool you'd be amazed what you can do with a shotgun (depending upon the round and the type of surface on which you're shootiing (including concrete hallways with side hallways coming off the one you're on - as long of course as you knew your angles). I've always been tickled everytime I see a photo of that German rifle from WWII with the curved barrel for shooting around corners.

Of course I always was considered somewhat uhhhhh...eccentric?
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old June 9th, 2012, 03:05 PM
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I've always been tickled everytime I see a photo of that German rifle from WWII with the curved barrel for shooting around corners.
Todd--

You're an expert, so you'll know the answer to this:

Is it possible to put a 180 degree curve in a gun barrel? If not how about one that's about 110 degrees down for shooting yourself in the foot?
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old June 9th, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Dave,

The part I miss most about being an LEO was upon retirement I had to relinquish my Federal rights to have in my possession my favorite weapon and no, it wasn't fully automatic. It was a Remington Mdl. 1100 Semi-Automatic 12 Ga. Shotgun with a 12 inch barrel and a Pachmyer pistol grip.
I'd love to spend an afternoon in the field or in some abandoned house with that weapon. I used to own a Thompson Contender in .45-70. My wrists just started hurting from thinking about it and it's been almost 30 years since I last shot it.
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