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Old June 29th, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Default Supreme court decision

Just curious to see if anyone will post on this thread and give their opinion of this past weeks historic Supreme Court decision .
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Old June 29th, 2012, 11:14 PM
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I'm still laughing my ass off at the morons who threatened to move to Canada to escape Government Mandated healthcare...Duh!
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Old June 30th, 2012, 01:32 PM
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The decision defies logic.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 03:08 PM
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My hope is that it ensures Obama's defeat in the election.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 04:36 PM
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What will it do for the U.S.? My quick answer is extremely simple and that is, "Just look at the financial shape in which Europe today finds itself. When people start rioting because they can't retire at full benefits, the end can't be far behind."

If that's that you want then that's fine. I just won't have to worry about watching all the carnage. Maybe some days it does pay to be chronically ill.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 04:36 PM
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Default Paul B

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My hope is that it ensures Obama's defeat in the election.
It would if the Republicans had a strong candidate .

Care to guess my point of view of the decision ? If you guess correctly you could win a brand new shiny copper penny .
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Old June 30th, 2012, 05:06 PM
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Care to guess my point of view of the decision ? If you guess correctly you could win a brand new shiny copper penny .
I would love a brand new shiny copper penny.

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Old June 30th, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Manuel ,you have to make the correct guess and if you do the penny shall be yours
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Old June 30th, 2012, 07:33 PM
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Manuel... In order to receive your penny, just send a stamped, self-addressed envelope to Henry43.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 09:59 PM
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I guess my biggest concern is the fact that we have generations of experience watching our federal government make a complete and total mess of anything they touch.

Massive waste, blatant fraud, untold over runs, costly administrative fees and a total and complete pervasive amount of mismanagement.......have plagued the Post Office, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.

And yet, they think they can run health care and "save" money????

Stupidity is doing the exact same thing and expecting different results.

Now having said that, the Supreme Courts ruling was legally correct. This is a tax and the Supreme Court recognized that.

Time will tell if the citizens of the United States are going to stand for being taxed for yet another entitlement.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 01:43 AM
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My hope is that it ensures Obama's defeat in the election.
Well I voted for him last time and this ticks me off. So depending on who is the other guy is you may have your wish. The problem I have with Healthcare for everyone is the large population of retired people and Children.

Who is going to pay for them? The magic money tree in the back yard? Also if it is a tax on employers and a withholding tax on employees. What laws will be enacted to collect for the people and employers that won't pay? There is a Tax Gap already. The Tax gap includes underground economy we don't report and pay taxes, people who report but don't pay and people who misreport to avoid paying their full tax liability. Every healthcare bill I have read (and I read a lot of the California bills). Does not address the issues of how to fully pay for this new shining healthcare plan. USA can't afford it not in this economy. Not with this Unemployment rate. And not with the current number of employers unable to meet current tax costs. STOP SPENDING MONEY WE DON"t HAVE!!!!!
That is what I think.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 10:18 AM
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Ok I guess the peole who will vote for Romney (AKA Willard) never heard of Romneycare while he was Governor in Massachusetts.

I suspect plenty of people have no clue on what Obamacare is really all about...Im sure If I sat with alot of people who are against it really when it comes down to it, have no clue about what its really about. Do you know what Romneycare is...Im sure you will now all google it..bet most of you never even knew about it.

[edited to remove -ist remarks -- PM]

I just look at some of these posts and think to myself..."Boy these people really have no clue on how Obamacare would work"...And I really mean that...NO CLUE.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ship2shore View Post
Manuel... In order to receive your penny, just send a stamped, self-addressed envelope to Henry43.

Manuel and I have met 5 times off line .If he guesses correctly he will get his penny the next time we meet .
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Old July 1st, 2012, 11:06 AM
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My informal survey of friends and neighbors indicates that the huge lion's share of those who are against Obamacare cannot name five specific provisions of the law. They just know they don't like it, well, just because. This makes their opinion invalid, although sadly they do get to vote. These are the same people who've been all over social media saying they're going to move to Canada where the government isn't involved with your healthcare. Fine with me kids. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

I'm in the middle. I think many provisions of the law are good, humane and necessary, but like most of you I don't think the exchanges and the tinkering with Medicare will work out well.

Paying? I've said it before: I'm no Warren Buffett, but I do not pay enough taxes and would be happy to pay more. But please don't give me the Chris Christie garbage and say, "well, then just write a check to the government and shut up." Because while I'm willing to pay more, I'm not willing to be a sap, a sucker, or a Lone Ranger. First, I have a habit of not being a sap, a sucker or a Lone Ranger, and second, one person increasing his tax burden isn't going to matter. I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable, and the comfortable need to do more.

I would have been happy to seriously consider any serious candidate the Republicans would choose. But they chose a buffoon, who only has the interests of himself, the rich, and big business at heart (pretty much in that order). Those in the middle class who think he will champion their cause are, in my opionion, naive.

Caveat emptor.

As for pennies, I read yesterday that it now costs 2.4 cents to manufacture a penny and 11 cents to manufacture a nickel. The reason we still make them is, at least in part, the mining lobby. So while a penny saved has always been a penny earned, these days it's a pretty damn good investment!
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Old July 1st, 2012, 11:26 AM
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The US is pretty much in the Minority of developed countries with no government healthcare.

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old July 1st, 2012, 11:26 AM
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The tragic fact is that the liberals in congress (COTUS, yuck) who voted for Obamacare had no idea of the details in the bill and probably still do not. This was clearly evidenced by pretty Nancy Pelosi who supposedly stated, "Let's pass the bill and then we will see what is in it."

Romney may not be the best possible choice for the Republicans, but he is an astute businessman, and that is better than a stumbling socialist who is very good at spending other people's money. I am retired and in a decent financial position. but I fear fot the young people of today living in a nation that is slowly sliding into a third-world status.

If you believe in socialism, vote for the status quo.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 11:40 AM
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... but I fear fot the young people of today living in a nation that is slowly sliding into a third-world status.

If you believe in socialism, vote for the status quo.
That slide started when social security became a "borrowing" fund. Your generation will enjoy the last of that fund my generation continues to fund.

A local father took his son to the ER for a suspected allergic reaction. Two days and nights of "monitoring" cost 27,000 dollars with no insurance. The old health care system was already a bastard 's socialism project. Insurance is at its heart socialistic.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 12:43 PM
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I don't like to get invoved with poilitical threads.
But I must say that as long as everything you buy is made in China or other Asian countries the US will not go far.
Yes Romney is a businesman who was great at exporting jobs to India whie he was Governor of Mass.

American people need to get in the habit of buying things made in the USA.
If can't find items made here ask for them. If enough pressue is put on retailers it will eventually sink in.

Also, if we can't afford health care, we certainly can not afford foreign aid.

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Old July 1st, 2012, 01:15 PM
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Let's forget about the Presidential candidates and address the problem.

In part, AR is correct.

Probably no one (including sitting members of Congress) with the possible exception of AR has read all the over two thousand pages of the new law.

They are still finding pork within it that has nothing whatsoever to do with healthcare. That's problem 1.

Problem two is that we all are going to have to pay more. The question is, "How much more and for whom?"

Although we'd like, we absolutely cannot be all things to all men, an irrefutable fact. My thing are the under 18's. Once you get to eighteen you're on your own. You can go to college and work yourself through school especially if you were an excellent student in your grade and high school years and if you weren't, that's your problem) and the elderly (and although I fall into that category I'm exempting myself because I ain't gonna' be around anyway). And if, for whatever reason, youngsters can't go to college, what ever happened to Trade Schools. You might get grease under your fingernails but do you have any idea of the astronomical amount of money a damned good mechanic makes?

Whether you're for it or against it is a moot point. Universal health care for all doesn't work....couldn't work ....simply because there isn't enough money. Hell, Europe learned that years ago yet they still didn't address the problem for fear somebody wouldn't be elected or re-elected. Sound familiar?

For those who go on and on about wars, etc., regardless of how one feels about our various forays into combat around the world it's also a moot point. As I've pointed out, when Jack Kennedy was President, the military budget made up 50% of the National budget. Today it's 19% so even though there are many areas the military can cut back and save, whacking the military budget wouldn't make probably even a dent in our debt...that merely demonstrates the dire financial straits this country now finds itself.

Whether you're for them or against them, the simple answer is that this problem is a result of unbelievably massive increases in entitlement and entitlement spending boomed with government waste and over regulation that has occurred over the years.

It's not really off the mark were one to infer that our own government has committed felony larceny and continues to do so daily.

It's truly that simple, it really is! Does that mean all entitlement spending is wrong? Of course not, it's the amount and a myriad of ridiculous reasons and excuses for that spending that is not wrong but unconscionably ridiculous.

Basic common sense will bear me out if you'll only THINK!

Why do you think industry is moving from the "rust belt" to the South. Mainly it's due to way too much power within labor unions demanding more and better benefits and pay on a continuing basis.

At points (especially between the beginning of the 20th century through the commencement of WWII) Unions were absolutely necessary. At some point they will be again as that old pendulum never stops. For now, they're their own worst enemy because just because as has the government, they didn't say, "Okay, let's slow down here."

One of the faster growing professions in the British Isles probably includes private for pay medical services such as physicians. The English HHS is completely bankrupt and the wait times for patients just to see a doctor (I'm not even including ER's here but general practioners, are frequently so long that the average American would never stand for it.

The work ethic in this country, an ethic for which it was known for centuries, is gone as in, good-by, adios, etc. When was the last time you saw kids shoveling snow or mowing lawns. God forbid, they may get cold or hot!!! No one wants to or will work. After talking with a very knowledgeable, polite, go out of his way Indian to solve a computer problem. Instead of outsourcing these type jobs, then bring over here the people willing to perform them. Talk about an increase in tax base!

Americans are beginning to understand that many will have to perform work or do jobs just to pay the bills, even if on a part time basis. Yet even today, most refuse to do anything like that. It's not an insult to flip hamburgers, work part time as a clerk or even be a janitor! Hell, when I went into law enforcement and the pay was low, I took a second job cleaning toilets and mopping and waxing floors in a department store! I worked such jobs (including starting as a counterman and then as an assistant night manager at a hamburger chain)!

Basic discipline is dying, whether it be in the home or elsewhere, especially the schools. Both parents started routinely holding full time jobs starting several decades ago because they didn't want their children to go without. Now we've gone from the downward trend "Me" generation to the "I want it and I want it now and I'm gonna' get it now" generation." What do most parents do? They "GIVE" the kids what they demand.

And last but certainly not least (and I know a lot of you won't like this) but we also took God out of our schools......it wasn't proper they said) yet the ten Commandments that you can't even recite in today's school still hang in the Supreme Court. Our country, bad or good (and I happen to say good) were built upon Christian-Judeo eithics.....period and fact! They're not only now gone, hell, they're not even allowed to be mentioned.
Can we solve our problem. Of course we can if we all will put our hands, feet and especially our brains to the grindstone and start worrying primarily about our own families before we start campaigning for other important issues.

Yeah, I'm an old fart but even old farts aren't wrong all the time!
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Old July 1st, 2012, 01:40 PM
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Some people are so out of touch...they dont know fact from fiction.

Someone mentioned Unions are too fault for the mess this country is in...To people who believe this, better go back to the library and read up on what caused this crises.

Do you think that the governor Scott Walker took it upon himself to take away all bargin rights of Wisconsin public workers. He was backed by big business and won a recall election because he received hundreds of millions of dollars from big business all around the country.

Do you not think for one moment that Walker was backed by big business so the companies profit lines will get even bigger.
How do you get higher profits...SIMPLE...you lower the pay of workers...take away their rights as a basic citizen, make them do more work for less pay...cut active and retired workers of their pensions... Freeze active worker pay for 5 years like in NY. GUESS WHAT...big business gets wealthier.

DONT YOU PEOPLE REALIZE that all the governors from all the states get together for a conference and decide how to go about breaking unions..

Breaking unions do not help the average person...now private companies do not have to compete against public company saleries, benfits..that means lower wages for all Americans.

BUT you people believe what the media tells you...who is the media...who are the newspapers...BIG BUSINESS...you people don't see it...you are all being conned...You dont think Wall street had anything to do with this mess... many people working on wall street right now belong behind bars...including all the mortgage company con artists...

Open your eyes...you are being duped.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 02:02 PM
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I'm still laughing my ass off at the morons who threatened to move to Canada to escape Government Mandated healthcare...Duh!
I agree that Government mandated (Universal Healthcare ) is the pits.
If you think Canada has a better system then the USA you've got rocks in your head or something worse. Michael Moore's movie was so full of horse pies that it was not worth even watching.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Buttons,

First of all I never said I was anti-Union or that Unions caused this mess. I did infer and will state they were a contributing factor.

When it comes to Unions, I most strongly recommend that you visit the Library. I have been a union member and know probably more (especially about public sector unions) if simply because I could well have been a member when you were a child in grade school. As for Union history, I can give you more union history (including pros and cons) than it may take you years to learn.

If I am correct, your entire basis for your viewpoints are that (a) Scott Walker was elected Governor, (b)Big Business as well as government is inherently bad...at least those are the main points you most vividly made. What you for some reason forget to state is that in some cases, some (and I mean more than just two or three) of the largest labor unions in this country are or have been among the most crooked organizations imaginable.

Toward your better understanding of the history of labor in this country, the need for unions, how unions are run, etc., etc. I suggest most strongly, that you complete some research on the subject.

Oh and one final point. What about millions and millions of dollars of their own workers money do Unions donate to political organizations? Maybe it's only because they feel that certain organizations and individuals are the best people for ALL Americans. If you truly believe that, start looking at the salaries of Union officials from the lowest ranking up to the Union President. check out the multi-multi million dollar country clubs and estates that aren't open to the lowly Union members but only their leaders. If you're an average American who wants to truly stand up for the American worker, you'll throw up!
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Old July 1st, 2012, 04:27 PM
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I agree that Government mandated (Universal Healthcare ) is the pits.
If you think Canada has a better system then the USA you've got rocks in your head or something worse. Michael Moore's movie was so full of horse pies that it was not worth even watching.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 04:28 PM
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I don't know about the rest of you, but my medical insurance increased $100 per month when the first part of Obamacare took effect - that being that I now have to insure my son until he is 26. So before the rest of the taxes in the horrific plan come to pass, I am already down $1200 this year and it will no doubt increase next year and on and on.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 04:53 PM
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Buttons,

First of all I never said I was anti-Union or that Unions caused this mess. I did infer and will state they were a contributing factor.

When it comes to Unions, I most strongly recommend that you visit the Library. I have been a union member and know probably more (especially about public sector unions) if simply because I could well have been a member when you were a child in grade school. As for Union history, I can give you more union history (including pros and cons) than it may take you years to learn.

If I am correct, your entire basis for your viewpoints are that (a) Scott Walker was elected Governor, (b)Big Business as well as government is inherently bad...at least those are the main points you most vividly made. What you for some reason forget to state is that in some cases, some (and I mean more than just two or three) of the largest labor unions in this country are or have been among the most crooked organizations imaginable.

Toward your better understanding of the history of labor in this country, the need for unions, how unions are run, etc., etc. I suggest most strongly, that you complete some research on the subject.

Oh and one final point. What about millions and millions of dollars of their own workers money do Unions donate to political organizations? Maybe it's only because they feel that certain organizations and individuals are the best people for ALL Americans. If you truly believe that, start looking at the salaries of Union officials from the lowest ranking up to the Union President. check out the multi-multi million dollar country clubs and estates that aren't open to the lowly Union members but only their leaders. If you're an average American who wants to truly stand up for the American worker, you'll throw up!
Your fancy talk is hog wash.

Millions and millions of dollars of their own workers money going to politics...you leave out the most important part...Its called C.O.P.E....only C.O.P.E money is donated..and the money for C.O.P.E is taken out of a pay check strictly on a volunteering basis...you left that part out conviently.

breaking up unions hurts the average worker...

Fancy country clubs...another joke....my friend works for a transit bus company and belongs to ATU which happens to be the biggest transit union in all of North America and Canada ok sonny, look that up and research that.. The local president in NY makes 75,000 a year...which equals the biggest paying run in the depot...whuch also means the person who has the biggest paying run makes as much as the local president...I know alittle more then what you might think.

Please answer this question without evading it...

Why would big business all over the country donate millions upon millions of dollars to re-elect Scott Walker...I bet it is not to help the average Joe.

Question 2 please answer and don't evade...Did Wall street have anything to do with the financial collapse...

Name one union that is bankrupting a state....or is it just all smoke and mirrors...

Either you are in the banking industry or work for a big business...your one of many who fall for this garbage that Unions are destroying the country.

Please answer question 3 dont evade:
Why did Scott Walker not attack only two unions in the state...police and fire...

Please answer question 4 don't evade

Oil is near $80 a barrel...why is gas prices $3.50 a gallon...oh in case you have'nt heard...the oil companies made record profits this past year...

And your for busting unions.

Unions are in no way contributing to the mess we have now..Big, business, wall street, banking and mortgage companies are.

Remember when the 3 big auto makers were called to congress to answer questions on why they need a bailout...they arrived in private jets....WHAT A JOKE.

The contributing factor is in fact people like you who give steam and enery to this garbage.

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Old July 1st, 2012, 05:01 PM
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I don't know about the rest of you, but my medical insurance increased $100 per month when the first part of Obamacare took effect - that being that I now have to insure my son until he is 26. So before the rest of the taxes in the horrific plan come to pass, I am already down $1200 this year and it will no doubt increase next year and on and on.
Here is a great idea...have him get a job.

If there are no jobs could it be that BIG BUSINESS has down sized just to increase their own profits...

Why should I pay for your sons health insurance...the free ride is over...and that's what people dislike.

AND how about people who do not have kids but still have to pay school tax..Nobody with kids cares about that...Which is one of the reason I have no sympathy for anyone who now has to pay for health care.

Last edited by buttons16; July 1st, 2012 at 05:19 PM.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 05:18 PM
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Here is a great idea...have him get a job.

If there are no jobs could it be that BIG BUSINESS has down sized just to increse their own profits...

Why should I pay for your sons health insurance...the free ride is over...and that what people dislike.
In Canada we all pay medical insurance . If you can't afford it the government subsidies your premiums . This is basic medical only , if you want to have better coverage the individual has to buy his own . I have extended medical thru work as well as basic. Because it's paid for by the employer I'm required to pay tax on the medical benefit.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamloops Cruiser View Post
In Canada we all pay medical insurance . If you can't afford it the government subsidies your premiums . This is basic medical only , if you want to have better coverage the individual has to buy his own . I have extended medical thru work as well as basic. Because it's paid for by the employer I'm required to pay tax on the medical benefit.
Yes, it's a taxable benefit but compared to what the US pays, it's peanuts. I'll take Canada's healthcare system over the US anyday of the week.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Trackypup View Post
Yes, it's a taxable benefit but compared to what the US pays, it's peanuts. I'll take Canada's healthcare system over the US anyday of the week.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Trackypup View Post
Yes, it's a taxable benefit but compared to what the US pays, it's peanuts. I'll take Canada's healthcare system over the US anyday of the week.
You don't want our system. What you can get as a routine exam and is usually done quickly can take weeks if they will even do it in Canada.

My DW was admitted to hospital for a bowel problem. The doctor ordered an emergency procedure to do a colonoscopy (SP ?) , it took six weeks to schedule an appointment in the hospital. She now can't get done for another seven years. For myself the doctor can order one but it would probably refused because I have no family medical history requiring one.
We have been told that we can see a Doctor in the US and get one almost the next day (we pay for it).
In emergency you could die while in the waiting room to be see a doctor.
We have had to cases in the last year where is has happens.
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