Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > People > Chit - Chat for Cruisers
Register Forgot Password?

Chit - Chat for Cruisers Open Forum for non-cruise posts. Please refrain from inflammatory rhetoric that could be considered offensive. We reserve the right to edit or delete for any reason.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2012, 08:48 PM
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 758
Default Could the United States Oath of Allegiance be improved?

I was reading about the Oath of Allegiance and was thinking it seemed to be comprehensive but it might be improved if it was modified to:
"I will faithfully observe and obey all of the laws of the United States of America and fulfill all of my duties as a citizen of the United States of America."

Oath of Allegiance (United States)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The United States Oath of Allegiance (officially referred to as the "Oath of Allegiance," 8 C.F.R. Part 337 (2008)) is an oath that must be taken by all immigrants who wish to become United States citizens. The first officially recorded Oaths of Allegiance were made on May 30, 1778 at Valley Forge, during the Revolutionary War.

The current oath is as follows:
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.[1]

In some cases, the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) allows the oath to be taken without the clauses regarding the bearing of arms and performance of noncombatant military service.[2]

8 C.F.R. 337.1 provides that the phrase "so help me God" is optional and that the words ‘on oath’ can be substituted with ‘and solemnly affirm’. Also, if the prospective citizen can prove such commitments are in violation with his or her religion, the lines "that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform non-combatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by law" are sometimes omitted.

I also undersrtand that Muslims may take the Oath of Allegiance as long as the individual is clear in their mind that they are doing so without contravening the sovereignty of Allah.

Before I submit my recommendation to the the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS )I wanted to survey the erudite minds of the cruisemates who populate this site for their suggestions - positive recommendations only please. This is a serious subject.Thank you in advance.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2012, 11:26 PM
ship2shore's Avatar
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 925
Default

"so help me God" SHOULD be optional.
Its a separation of Church and State thing, a major principle on which this country was founded.
We keep forgetting.... and forgetting....
Military and civilian defence and civic assistance SHOULD be mandatory. Every citizen should do their part.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2012, 11:40 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,741
Default

My mom became a US citizen when she was 70 years old. I don't think that anyone expected her to bear arms in defense of this country.

TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence of the Seas 12/29/2013
Booked Allure of the Seas....12/27/2015
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2012, 04:42 PM
ship2shore's Avatar
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 925
Default

"My mom became a US citizen when she was 70 years old. I don't think that anyone expected her to bear arms in defense of this country."

If an M-16 is too heavy give her an Uzi.

All citizens should contribute to the best of their abilities, not just during wartime but during other trying times (like Katrina). During WWII, those too old or infirm contributed in other ways: the Observer Corps and Metals Reclamation are two British examples that spring to mind.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2012, 11:49 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,741
Default

[QUOTE=ship2shore;1438384
All citizens should contribute to the best of their abilities, not just during wartime but during other trying times (like Katrina). During WWII, those too old or infirm contributed in other ways: the Observer Corps and Metals Reclamation are two British examples that spring to mind.[/QUOTE]

Yeah right!

When I was serving in Vietnam, thousands and thousands of American went to Canada and other countries and they and the Hippies that were messing up our parks and protesting against the war were treat with more respect then the Veterans coming home from the war.

What we have is a lot of Chicken Hawks.

TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence of the Seas 12/29/2013
Booked Allure of the Seas....12/27/2015
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old July 14th, 2012, 11:53 PM
ship2shore's Avatar
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 925
Default

Manuel, patriotism aside and with all due respect to those who served, Vietnam was hardly "Mankinds darkest hour".

If they run to Canada, they had better become Canadians. Good riddance.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old July 15th, 2012, 12:21 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,479
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ship2shore View Post
Manuel, patriotism aside and with all due respect to those who served, Vietnam was hardly "Mankinds darkest hour".
Every time I visit the Vietnam wall a few miles from where I'm sitting, it seems pretty dark to me. Still, this issue is a matter of degree, and while I agree that in the long, slow curve of history it's not at the top of the list, it's certainly on the list.

But the point in regard to the OP is that since there is no longer a draft, the issue of bearing arms when required by law is essentially moot. Seems to me that it's perfectly OK to include it in the oath military people take when they sign up, but it is out of place in a citizenship oath for the reason stated above.

If it's left in there's no practical harm, because nobody is required to put themselves in a position where it could be enforced. But it would be just as well to clean it up.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old July 15th, 2012, 01:34 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: virginia beach
Posts: 1,298
Default

I think the "oath of pledging citizenship" is fairly well written but wonder how many citizens of the United States, really listen to the pledge that they are saying. It is true that many people "crossed the border" into Canada to escape the draft. There are other people, who were "conscientious objectors" that "served their country" in other ways; a dear friend's husband worked as an orderly in a hospital in Cleveland for two years. We all do what we feel is "right" to "serve our country".
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old July 15th, 2012, 02:50 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,741
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ship2shore View Post
Manuel, patriotism aside and with all due respect to those who served, Vietnam was hardly "Mankinds darkest hour".

.
It was pretty dark for us who were over there.

TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence of the Seas 12/29/2013
Booked Allure of the Seas....12/27/2015
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
allegiance, cruise, line

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
S.S. United States Mikey Sr. Norwegian Cruise Lines 2 September 16th, 2003 02:20 PM
United States Carole Dunham Ask CruiseMates Staff 1 June 26th, 2003 12:02 PM
SS United States Carole Dunham Norwegian Cruise Lines 0 June 23rd, 2003 05:38 PM
United States Dr Bob Norwegian Cruise Lines 2 May 25th, 2003 11:20 AM
S.S. United States MIKE Travel Gripes! 9 January 23rd, 2002 02:41 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:06 PM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1