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-   -   Navy Yard? What Navy Yard? (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/chit-chat-cruisers/398855-navy-yard-what-navy-yard.html)

AR September 19th, 2013 11:25 AM

Navy Yard? What Navy Yard?
 
A few days ago two new strings were started on this board within a few hours of each other. One is entitled "Nonsense Posts" and is about spam finding its way onto the board. The other, put up by yours truly, is entitled "Remembering the Navy Yard" and is about remembering the Navy Yard.

As of this writing, here are the stats:

"Nonsense Posts" 283 views, 19 replies
"Remembering the Navy Yard" 80 views, 3 replies

An essay in this morning's Washington Post says it all: "The cynical truth is that the Navy Yard murders had neither the kinds of victims nor the story that sustains public revulsion."

And so we move on. Fox is flogging "the Hiccup Girl trial" and MSNBC is big on "brain-eating amoeba." And on Cruisemates, "Nonsense Posts" carries the day.

Will the next mass murder have more public appeal, or are we just so jaded now that these kinds of killings warrant little more than a shrug?

Dave Beers September 19th, 2013 12:10 PM

Or perhaps since this is a cruise forum most people don't come here to discuss mass murders and other terrible events?

Kuki September 19th, 2013 12:15 PM

No question it was a horrible thing, with 12 innocents losing their lives, and leaving families to morn.

This one was a bit different. The early reporting started in the direction of turning back to the "gun debate", when it was reported that the shooter was armed with an "assault rifle".

It lost steam when it came to light that the killer was armed with a shot gun.

It also came to light that it was a total failure of the "security systems" that missed many signs that should have prevented this guy from entering the Navy Yard legally, with a "secret" security level clearance.

That made it turn to a story about mental illness, going unacknowledged, and a failed system for security checks. Topics the general public likely doesn't feel they can do much about. Therefore the story doesn't have a "rallying call" for action.

Paul Motter September 19th, 2013 12:21 PM

Personally, if it had to happen (not saying I am glad it happened), I was glad to see something took the Concordia off the front page of the news channels, otherwise we probably would have had 12 hours of watching "paint dry" - the Concordia raising, with all the footage of the bad stuff queued up and ready to roll to fill in the gaps.

Paul Motter September 19th, 2013 12:23 PM

Interesting article in NY Times - Raising the Normandie
 
The NY Times did a tasteful piece about a significant part of new York History, when firefighters pumped so much water into a burning ship (The Normandie) in Manhattan harbor that she capsized just like Concordia. I already knew this story, but I bet a lot of people didn't know it.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...on-water/?_r=0

AR September 19th, 2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Beers (Post 1484952)
Or perhaps since this is a cruise forum most people don't come here to discuss mass murders and other terrible events?

Ridiculous.

This board is full of individual bereavements and other sad accounts, and they generate extensive and lovely tributes and good wishes in response. "Terrible events" are a staple of this space, and all you have to do is read a little bit to know that. Anyone who posts an illness or death will instantly receive far more response than the Navy Yard thread.

And, even though you're the moderator, you seem not to have grasped the first line in the descriptor of this particular board: Open Forum for non-cruise posts. Over and over you guys fall back on "this is a cruise forum" when your own boilerplate proclaims that it is not. There are some people here who haven't taken a cruise in a dog's age, and they proclaim as much in their signatures.

AR September 19th, 2013 12:31 PM

Kuki--

I think you make good points, just as the Post did.

I guess I just focus on those families, those neighbors, and as the president said, those patriots.

ship2shore September 19th, 2013 02:30 PM

Don't you wish everyone behaved exactly like you would desire, AR? The moaning and hand-wringing not quite up to your expectations? Or are we just choosing to deal with it in a different way, and do not require a cheerleader, or a minister for that matter?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, we just need a little levity in these trying times ...

Personally, I dont post to the bereavement threads as a rule, but I posted to yours.... I guess that skews your well-thought-out universe, huh? Whoodathunkit?

And I bloody-well wish I was on a cruise, even though my signature might say I am not on one. It just reflects my reality at this point in time.

I guess my somewhat disjointed point is: "Beers Wins".

Dave Beers September 19th, 2013 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR (Post 1484957)

And, even though you're the moderator, you seem not to have grasped the first line in the descriptor of this particular board: Open Forum for non-cruise posts.

Why yes, AR, this is the 'open forum for non-cruise posts'! I never would have known if you hadn't been so charitable as to point that out. Thanks a bunch!

It's just that everything posted here doesn't automatically rate responses. Members have a right to consider something as boring, not of interest, something they'd prefer not to read, or as a topic they don't wish to respond to. You see, 'non-cruise posts' for many are the birthdays, illnesses, celebrity deaths, and not the gruesome headlines. That's all I was saying.

Cruznut2 September 19th, 2013 06:37 PM

I watched and my heart as been broken over this. I have kept silent and cried many tears over it. I just have no more to say about more killings by a person with a gun. A tragic reality of this world.

Laura

AR September 20th, 2013 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ship2shore (Post 1484976)
I guess my somewhat disjointed point is: "Beers Wins".

Yes, very disjointed, and I didn't know it was a contest and that you were the referee.

I mean, you're welcome to make all the claims you like about the need for levity, the way people handle things and all the rest. But as time goes on and we become more and more inured to massacres, as we move on to "other things" more and more rapidly after they happen, I fear for our national moral compass. There's nothing I can do about it, and it's got little to do with what I want personally. Familiarity breeds contempt, or at least indifference. . .that's a fact of life. And the trend seems to be that the more these things happen the more indifferent we become. That was the point of my OP, and as I said, it's not limited to this little bulletin board.

I expect to see that trend continue and I make no apology for being sad about it. The Navy Yard will disappear from the news completely as soon as everyone is buried in a day or two, and while I hope the victims rest in peace, the memory of what happened will not, at least not with me.

Ron September 20th, 2013 12:25 AM

I rarely post anything anymore, as first of all, I usually don't have much of anything of interest to post, so therefore whats the point.
I don't post all the cruises I've been on, as I don't have a need to wear them on my sleeves like chevrons, nor do I post the future cruises I may take 2 or 3 years down the road.
I do agree with and understand A.R's point-- it's been pretty silent regarding the mass killing at the Naval Yard. So many questions to be asked, so many different answers given and who actually knows the exact truth?
Naturally the gun debate will eventually arise in some quarters--it was first said the shooter had an M-16, then that was changed to a shotgun, and then he supposedly took a pistol from someone he had shot so as I said, do we really know exactly how it happened? He " supposedly " heard voices-- that's always a good one to use after a mass killing.
The one thing that has me sort of puzzled is that he supposedly had problems but yet had security clearance to get into a Naval Base and another thing that has bothered me is that the Navy apparently has a shortage of weapons for their own personnel-- one would think on a Naval Base there would be some Naval personnel with access to weapons--but we depended on private security and the D.C. police to respond. " Private " security guards guarding a Naval Base ?? And it's the same security firm that hired Snowden ,who absconded to Russia with all kinds of info that has no doubt compromised this nations security. So, I would think that instead of preaching about the " gun did it " thing, I would be more interested in taking a very close look at our security and how it's handled, closing the leaks and tightening up the holes that allow these people to get in in the first place.
Apparently the security was not so great--maybe I could take a pick-up truck and just drive into Ft. Knox and load up some gold--maybe it's changed since I was there but when I was in the service, there were weapons on the military bases and there were people who provided security for the bases without having to sub-contract it out to god -knows who!
And too, I see A.R.'s point about the deaths of 12 people not seeming to be a big deal but the mention of family tragedies bring out all kinds of posts
and responses.
I too had a mother and father who are gone--2 brothers who are gone. My wife in the last three years has lost 3 brothers, the last one being her baby brother fairly recently and exactly 2 weeks after that her sisters husband died on their porch. I had 3 sisters--lost one a few years ago and another a few weeks ago-- and yes, I miss my parents, my brothers and sisters everyday. My cat I've had for 15 years was just diagnosed this past Monday with kidney cancer. A few months at most til she's gone.
I don't feel the need to take all my problems to a cruise board nor do I condemn anyone who does--we are all different and handle things in our own way.
In Spain recently a train was speeding and wrecked, killed several and injured many others--a bus wrecked somewhere and killed several--in Canada in the last few days there were some people killed in a wreck but I honestly can't remember the exact details but regardless, if this many deaths had happened on a cruise ship, the media would still be on it to the bitter end.
A.R. had also mentioned he had tickets to something and was having thoughts as to whether or not to go, as it was close to the Naval Yard and he was trying to decide whether or not to go in view of what had happened. I can understand how he felt- Whether or not he went, I don't know--but at least it shows he did have a concern and compassion for the dead and wounded and felt remorseful about going somewhere to try to enjoy something when such a tragedy had occurred practically next door.
And no, I don't always agree with what he says but I do understand what he's talking about here and agree with him .
To all who have problems with health, sickness, death and etc in your personal life, I offer my sincere prayers and hopes that things will be better for you. I would like to see this country in some way, manage to get by for a while without another mass killing but in all honesty, with 12 being killed at the Naval Yard, I would bet that nationwide there were more than that killed on the same day, one or two at a time but as it was not a mass killing, it went unannounced except on the local stations.
To all, I hope your next cruise is the best with many more to come! :)

Luanne Russo September 20th, 2013 10:36 AM

I just read this thread, because I have been traveling for the last couple of days, but I would like to make a couple of comments.

It is of course, a horrible event. This country must address mental illness.

Ron, Bill Clinton signed a bill when he was in office, to make military installations, gun free zones, which makes them as easy targets, as schools.

AR, my heart aches for the people who lost loved ones, and I am sure the reason you have been so touched, is it was in your own back yard.

ship2shore September 20th, 2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR (Post 1485000)
Yes, very disjointed, and I didn't know it was a contest and that you were the referee.

This "referee" is sad you cant strike out on a foul ball.

Quote:

And the trend seems to be that the more these things happen the more indifferent we become. That was the point of my OP, and as I said, it's not limited to this little bulletin board.
Then why go to the trouble of supporting your assertions with board statistics, like you are psychoanalyzing a chit-chat bulletin board; using it as a microcosm for your "grande malaise"???

AR September 20th, 2013 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ship2shore (Post 1485035)
Then why go to the trouble of supporting your assertions with board statistics, like you are psychoanalyzing a chit-chat bulletin board; using it as a microcosm for your "grande malaise"???

Because "little pictures" often illuminate much bigger ones, as I said clearly and directly in the OP. Such is the case in this instance.

Aerogirl September 20th, 2013 08:47 PM

AR I see what your saying, I believe we the people have become immuned to these far to often killings.
Today our morning news was about a mass shooting of 13 people the youngest was a 3 year old. The reporting was all about that with no other news as to weather or other stories. I said to my hubby " is that all their going to talk about, it must be a slow news day" not two seconds later I said to myself wow really Robin this is a major thing that happend with lives forever changed and I felt shameful that I would even think such a thing as I'm a very caring person, I realize I've become use to this type of thing and its just not a big deal anymore because its an every day occurrence . I felt really sad that I could even feel that way and how accepting we've become of things like this.

I will be working on that because that's not who I am or who I want to be.

UConn1 September 20th, 2013 09:38 PM

As a rule, I tend to not reply to posts that may elicit very strong emotion (in either direction) This includes, but is not limited to: Politics, Religion, War, and in this case, what can be turned into a gun control issue.

I learned this, on these boards, about 7 years ago when there was a gentleman who I just wanted to go away for his posts. I posted some comments one night in a fit of anger and was appropriately called out by Paul and had my post deleted.

I have many friends who follow the same rule, as it eliminates any chance of being misunderstood or offending anyone.

Just believe me when I tell you my heart was heavy about the recent Navy Yard shooting.


Jodi

Snoozeman September 21st, 2013 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Motter (Post 1484956)
The NY Times did a tasteful piece about a significant part of new York History, when firefighters pumped so much water into a burning ship (The Normandie) in Manhattan harbor that she capsized just like Concordia. I already knew this story, but I bet a lot of people didn't know it.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...on-water/?_r=0


I just saw a wonderful display and large model of the Normandie last week in of all places: Normandy. I believe she was the sister ship to the SS France that became The Norway.


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