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  #31 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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I can't imagine what these folks are going through right now. My niece called me last night as one of her girlfriends was onboard celebrating her honeymoon. The girl had her laptop and cell phone with her and has been able to communicate with family. As of this morning they are in Rome along with the other Americans who were onboard waiting for flights to bring them back to the US. I'm sure I will get more information once she gets back and has a chance to talk with my niece.
Praying that those missing are found and for the families of those lost.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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And - yes, the news says the boat drill was scheduled for that day at 5:00, but they were eating dinner, so I am thinking they did have a boat drill.

But the angle of the ship made the drill cjhoatic because only half the lifeboats were usable.

Those boats are gravity controlled, but if the can't clear the ship they can't get down.

But all modern ships also carry several life rafts- more thqn enough for everyone - those should have been deployed. I am guessing they had time to get everyone off - except for the people who panicked and jumped.

There are all kinds of ideas - like that a sinking ship creates suction and pulls you down, but that did not happen with Titanic, and it did not happen here. The best thing for everyone would be to stay onboard.

I can see the possibility of physically challenged people maybe not being able to get out of their cabins, but other than that everyone should have been able to get off all right.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Here's a link to the AP story. News from The Associated Press
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Old January 14th, 2012, 10:51 AM
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My niece has a girlfriend who was on this sailing. They were on their honeymoon. She has been in contact with family and as of this morning they are in Rome, along with the other Americans who were onboard, waiting on flights to bring them back to the US.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Paul, I find it interesting that the ship listed away from the side with the damage. Maybe the reef is to the port side and the deeper water was to the starboard. Do you have any thoughts about this?
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Old January 14th, 2012, 10:52 AM
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No Paul, they didn't have a drill - it was scheduled for the next day not they day the boarded. They have 24 hours to have a drill.

When you say everyone should have been able to get off alive, you're right. But that does not take into account human nature. People panic - all the time. Not having been given any instructions on what they should do they did what they wanted to do - ran - jumped - screamed - everything imaginable.

It's the nature of the human beast. I am willing to bet (sadly) that there would be panic on any ship should this type of event happen again. People panic, parents want their children with them, doesn't matter what they've been told - they are going to hunt them down.

You must always take into account human nature.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhill View Post
What a terrible thing to happen. This kind of thing shouldnt happen to anyone.Now that I have said that let me say something that I am sure I will get attacked over. Isnt that a chance you take when you step on a ship? Just like stepping on a plane.I feel (with no facts to back it up) that people get passive and maybe forget about the risk and dangers related to heading out to sea! Do people really think this kind of accident was never going to happen?To me its a chance I am willing to take to go on a cruise. There are no guarentes in life. Let me say again that this was a terrible thing to happen and I fell for everyone involed
I won't be attacking you. There is danger in everything we do. I'll still cruise.

Sending good thoughts and wishes to the victims.

I'd like to know why they were so close to shore.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 11:06 AM
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It's a sad situation, and my heart goes out to the families who lost loved ones.

I hope that something is learned from this so that such a tragedy does not happen again.

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Old January 14th, 2012, 11:11 AM
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It is unbelievable that there had not been a muster drill since Jan 8. I do hope that there are no more deaths but fear that there will be.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 11:22 AM
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Here is an article that has a lot of photos.
Cruise ship sinks news: Three die and at least 70 missing | The Sun |News

a bunch of photos:

http://www.corriere.it/gallery/crona...bc574.shtml#12


you can easily see a very large rock in the hull in a few of the photos.

found these via a FB freind.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 12:02 PM
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I was up until 5:00 a.m. Central Time keeping up with this. I've now awoke and see that not too much more news has broken.

My theory, and it's only theory, is that they did have an electrical problem and it took out the navigation system. This caused them to go into the rocks and rip open the hull. I am amazed that a 50 meter gash was ripped into the hull. That is 165 feet and huge. With GPS, highly accurate charts and the experience of the officers there is no way they would have hit the rocks if they still had control of the ship. At least I strongly hope they wouldn't have hit the rocks if they had control of the vessel.

I listened to the BBC reports and, as human nature is, people panicked and trampled people on the stairs, pushed and shoved to get on the lifeboats and jumped overboard. Everyone laughs and makes jokes at the muster drill but when something does happen it is sad that the self preservation urge takes over and people become animals. I've seen it in fires or something less dangerous as a halon release of a fire suppression system. People panic and the sad part is that many of them are people you would have thought wouldn't.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Looks like there are still seventy passengers not accounted for
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 12:14 PM
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I posted a link on the thread in Chit chat and one woman from the ship has been on for a while and stated that no drill had been done since the 8th. Also people from the ship said that the crew was not helpful at all.

With some of the photos showing a very large rock in the hull and with reports that they were way off course I do thing that there had to have been an electrical proble to to take them so far off course.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix_the_cat View Post
Paul, of course people will jump off in panic. It may not seem right but far too many people do irrational things when panicked. They have already interviewed at least one crew member who did jump.

The latest reports are 3 dead and up to 70 missing. How terribly sad.

They had not held the lifeboat drills either. That was scheduled for day 2. Something that isn't allowed on this side of the pond. This certainly shows why.
A minor correction - this incident took place on the SIXTH day of the cruise.

Annie
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 12:23 PM
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[QUOTE=anniegb;1409735]
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix_the_cat View Post
Paul, of course people will jump off in panic. It may not seem right but far too many people do irrational things when panicked. They have already interviewed at least one crew member who did jump.

The latest reports are 3 dead and up to 70 missing. How terribly sad.

They had not held the lifeboat drills either. That was scheduled for day 2. Something that isn't allowed on this side of the pond. This certainly shows why.

QUOTE]

A minor correction - this incident took place on the SIXTH day of the cruise.

Annie

The problem is the Costa ships pick up at a lot of ports yet the drill is only held once a week. Therefore, if you are picked up at the second port it will be 6 days before the next drill. In this case, a lot of passengers had been picked up that day and a drill was scheduled for the next day - hence they are saying day 2.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlb1050 View Post
I posted a link on the thread in Chit chat and one woman from the ship has been on for a while and stated that no drill had been done since the 8th. Also people from the ship said that the crew was not helpful at all.

With some of the photos showing a very large rock in the hull and with reports that they were way off course I do thing that there had to have been an electrical proble to to take them so far off course.
From what I understand these ships only do drill when they leave their home port but do a seven day round trip with passengers joining and leaving at different ports.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 12:44 PM
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[QUOTE=felix_the_cat;1409737]
Quote:
Originally Posted by anniegb View Post


The problem is the Costa ships pick up at a lot of ports yet the drill is only held once a week. Therefore, if you are picked up at the second port it will be 6 days before the next drill. In this case, a lot of passengers had been picked up that day and a drill was scheduled for the next day - hence they are saying day 2.
I bow to your superior knowledge ; agree if that is the case - that procedure will change.

Maybe all those who whine and try to skip drills will stop.

Annie
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 12:46 PM
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Yes, the pictures at FoxNews show the damage. It is hard to say why it listed away from the damage except that it had to list one way or the other and whereever the damage was done there was nothing to stop the water to flowing to the other side.

I assume you are correct that it was deeper on the other side - it's just a VERY good thing it wasn't much deeper.

It is hard to say - but we should know before long. It is possible that the ship would have sunk, and much sooner, if it had ended up in deeper water. For all we know it is only listing more now because it is sliding down a sandbar (not because the intake of water is gradual). If you get what I am saying, it is possible it took on enough water to sink a long time ago, but only the sandbar "saved it."

If that is true - talk about an act of God...
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 01:03 PM
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What I find strange is there is no damage near the front and the stabilizers are deployed the scap marks start just befoer the beginning of the damaged area
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Old January 14th, 2012, 01:28 PM
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A modern ship is designed to sink upright to give the time to get the lifeboats away so something is wrong with the design or the crew training.

It would appear she hit the rock around two thirds of the way along the hull the stabilizers are deployed and not damaged the scraping is not along the full length of the hull, this indicates she was not sailing in a straight line, perhaps turning or drifting yet still moving forward due to a power failure.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 01:33 PM
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Spartan posted a link that show the ships track, it appears it went between to big rocks instead of around them??
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 01:41 PM
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[QUOTE=anniegb;1409740]
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix_the_cat View Post

I bow to your superior knowledge ; agree if that is the case - that procedure will change.

Maybe all those who whine and try to skip drills will stop.

Annie

I hope so Annie, there are far too many people who try to fluff off the muster drill or don't pay attention - yapping and drinking the whole time like it's a game.

And the amount of complaining I've heard!! Just makes me shudder. After 40 plus cruises we are still right there with every muster drill and wouldn't consider anything else.

We were on a Princess last month and discovered that if you are on a B2B you don't have to go to the muster drill the second leg. So, my question, how do they know that all those people wandering around the ship are on b2b?
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old January 14th, 2012, 02:06 PM
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Despite the shocking image of the ship laying on it's side, it is likely that re-floating it will not be terribly difficult. It is good for the accident investigation that all the physical evidence is right there within reach and not sitting at the bottom of the sea.

I am not one to speculate on things when there is so little information available, but given the Captain did tell the guests there had been an electrical problem, then I would tend to believe it was a chain of events that initiated with the electrical problem taking out key systems. Note where the hull rupture is - right in the midst of the engineering spaces.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 02:09 PM
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I just saw on CNN that the Captain has been arrested for manslaughter and abandoning ship. He left before all of the passengers were off the ship and accounted for. Supposedly he was going to organize the shore side rescue efforts. Hmmm... That is something the first officer, staff Captain or other senior officer should do.

It will be interesting to find out all the events that occurred, before, during and after the accident.

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Old January 14th, 2012, 02:12 PM
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where is the link of the ships path?
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Old January 14th, 2012, 02:15 PM
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[QUOTE=felix_the_cat;1409747]
Quote:
Originally Posted by anniegb View Post


We were on a Princess last month and discovered that if you are on a B2B you don't have to go to the muster drill the second leg. So, my question, how do they know that all those people wandering around the ship are on b2b?
Easy - they all have to do a muster drill again.

Now if you are flying say LHR- Auckland; they have a stopover say at Hong Kong - some people leave ; some people join the flight and some just get off and stretch their legs.

In that case they go through the safety briefing again - quite correctly. Different crew etc

Same should apply to vessels.

I would wager if you asked any passenger what their lifeboat no is - most wouldn't know even if they had attended a safety drill 24 hrs earlier - maybe I am being cynical.

I have seen passengers having to physically restrain fellow passengers from leaving a drill early because they wanted to get back to their drinks.

I hope this incident has a silver lining - I live in hope.

Annie

BTW I don't want to even bring up the question of Travel Insurance.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
where is the link of the ships path?
SeaNews Turkey - Costa Concordia: A major navigational error, or what?

FYI: It took a while to load.

Take care,
Mike
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Old January 14th, 2012, 02:56 PM
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I would think the salvage pontoons are already being towed to the scene
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Old January 14th, 2012, 03:42 PM
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Seems to me that the officers that are supposed to be on duty on the bridge should of noticed something was wrong with the navigation equipment and avoided getting so close to the Island.

I know that today most ships are guided by GPS systems but come on! Someone is supposed to be on duty monitoring things.

That being said....Our thoughts and prayers are with everyone involved in this disaster at sea.

And yes, we all need to remember that the Sea can be a dangerous place and the size of the ship, while less effected then smaller vessels, still can sink to the bottom of the ocean.
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Old January 14th, 2012, 04:01 PM
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Paul,


I was on a Carnival ship that did not do it's musterd drill for two days, much like this Costa ship. My question is rather Costa is now in legal trouble due to its failure to do the mandatory drills prior to this occurance. In the USA this would seem to be a trial attorney's dream case.
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