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  #121 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyjumpstart View Post
ABC news is reporting the 2 bodies pulled from the ship were elderly male passengers. They were in their cabin & wearing their lifevests.
Reading this just made me feel sick.... how sad!
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
There is no reason at all that the Captain should have left the ship before all recoverable passengers were off the ship. It is a hard and fast Maritime Law and is punishable by loss of license, fine and possible imprisonment. This would supersede even an order from Corporate, or "group" decision to leave the ship. A senior officer should have been dispatched to shore if there was a need to coordinate.

On this point I will condemn the Captain for the decision to leave the ship before the passengers had evacuated.

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I agree 100% you just said it better then I could!
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerogirl View Post
Reading this just made me feel sick.... how sad!
I agree - when the ship started to list everyone should have been brought up to the top open decks. No one should have been in their staterooms.

It was reported that people were told to stay in their staterooms. That was not a good thing to tell them.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 01:57 PM
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Here is my theory on what happened...

because reports keep giving us a sequence of events - but they do not give us a timeline, here is what I am guessing happened...

The captain may have been on the bridge for the sail-by (or he may have been at dinner) but the ship probably hit the rocks during the sail-by between the islands (or soon after) - a shudder but all seems fine.

Suddenly - a second boom - a generator exploding. The captain goes back to the bridge and says he found the ship was off course, in any case, he knows the ship is taking on water slowly so he turns the ship around to head for Giglio Porto. Power is sporadic, off & on. He is able to turn the ship (the first list to the port-side people reported) then as he is heading towards the pier he is almost there when the ship keel hits a sandbar on that rock outcropping it lands on. A sudden list to the other side.

That is why the ship is facing south and the ship is pointing away from the side of the damage. Water flowed in but went to the other (starboard) side until it equalized. I assume the ship has now stabilized (its a shame Costa won't even give us this much information) because they are allowing divers to go inside and look for more people.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 02:26 PM
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I agree that is is human nature to panic. I also have been in situations where I have seen it happen.

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I too have been in situations where it happened .
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 02:42 PM
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The reports I have read state that the 2 men were in an assembly area not in their stateroom.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 02:49 PM
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Paul, is it true that the Captain was amoung the first to leave the ship, in the second lifeboat? What is his duty toward his ship and passangers? This happend before when a Greek vessel sank (the same ship that terrists took over and killed the American in the wheelchair--MS Achille Lauro) and its Captian left the ship with his family: while leaving the passengers and crew to fend for themselves.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 02:54 PM
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I agree. I heard they were found in a restaurant which was their staging area.

I don't think, at this point, it matter how it happened, what mistakes were made to cause it. We are all arm-chair quarterbacks at the moment no matter how much we think we know.

What is really horrendous though, is the reports that are coming in from people onboard who claim to have seen the master of the vessel on the second life boat, long before anyone else was off. That is just beyond disgusting.

It was everything after the event that is so hard to manage. If the master and his officers had done their jobs properly, there would not have been any deaths.

The crew and hotel staff needed directions - they didn't get any.

This also makes me think of something else-although not important at this time. Hotel staff are paid a pittance and expected to be giving "tips" from cruisers. For that they generally give the best services they can. When an event such as this happens, they aren't getting paid a decent salary and I have to wonder if it goes through their minds - "I'm not getting paid enough to do this thankless job. I owe the company nothing and I want to live too." I know it went through my mind when I was watching this all unfold. Perhaps there needs to be decent wages paid.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkbii View Post
Paul, is it true that the Captain was amoung the first to leave the ship, in the second lifeboat? What is his duty toward his ship and passangers? This happend before when a Greek vessel sank (the same ship that terrists took over and killed the American in the wheelchair--MS Achille Lauro) and its Captian left the ship with his family: while leaving the passengers and crew to fend for themselves.

I'm not Paul but I can tell you there have been numerous reports that the master left his ship early, and yes, well before all passengers and cruise were off.

His job is to be the last person off his vessel.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 03:32 PM
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Default Wheelchair Passengers

I wonder how they coped?

Annie
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 03:56 PM
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Obviously people panic under various circumstances for different reasons. But one of the greatest controls to keep panicing from getting out of hand are trained professionals who by their actions and behavior reduce such panic, sometimes to a great extent depending upon the circumstances.

Some observations and readings (which I've spent the day doing...reviewing tapes, articles, personal stories, etc.):

I have yet to hear of anyone at any level (as far as officers and crew) taking any charge. Even one of the deck crew when told people couldn't hear him and to use the bull horn replied, "I'm not allowed to touch the bull horn!"

There were apparently according to witnesses at least some staff or crew in lifeboats before any passengers.

Many staff and crew told people (what I refer to as the "party line," probably to control panic) that everything was fine, it was just a problem with the generators. Trouble is, they kept saying that for apparently up to forty-five very important minutes. One passenger on hearing it wasn't serious, took a sleeping pill and went to bed. Thankfully her cabin mate was able to awaken her and both escaped.

Sea farers from the island (the guys who run the ferries) say the sea lanes are well known and that no ship should ever approach within five to six miles of the shore because of known shoals. If possibly the ship did lose power, the GPS systems would immediately advise the bridge crew that the ship was heading toward shore. Another question is if all the engines did fail, then should not the Captain have been somewhat familiar with the currents (especially if that were his regular run) and while the ship was underway point it against the current (even if that just meant turning the azipods if indeed he had even power to do that) while it was still underway? If he didn't, then why when the ship then started drifting toward shore, didn't the Captain deploy anchors (if the thrusters also didn't work) enough to at least slow down the drift of the vessel and immediately order at least the preparation for an orderly abandonment of the vessel. Because of thrusters, I presume ships no longer have what they used to call sea anchors which also may have helped.

My own pure guess is he just got too close to the shoals. Why? I haven't a clue as he should have been miles from them. Also, if something had gone wrong while the ship was sailing in a navigational channel, how could the crew come up with in some cases in the dining room ("Oh it's only an electrical problem whiel the ship literally plows right into the shoals and begin to list).

Even the Italian Coast Guard admits the Captain left the vessel (wrapped in what one observer identified as a blanket(to cover his uniform?)) long before the vessel was even close to being disembarked.

Of course I may be wrong on most of the above points but I'd be surprised if some of the more important weren't salient.
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Last edited by ToddDH; January 15th, 2012 at 04:02 PM.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 04:31 PM
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I am changing my theory - the ship hit the rocks about 40 minutes after the sail-by - that was successful. They hit the rocks 40 minutes later, started taking on water immediately, and then turned around to head back to Giglio.

Funny - BBC is saying they reported an electrical fault long before they even reached Giglio - on the way there. Seems like a red herring, but anything is possible.
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 04:34 PM
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On the Costa Atlantica's first crossing from Genoa to Lauderdale in 2000, we did not have a muster until the next day, when we were headed for Barcelona.

All announcements were made in Italian, French, German, Spanish and English. I found this fascinating as I love languages, but my friend found it annoying and tiring. I can understand some of the confusion on the Concordia, due to the language situation- God knows we'd all be a bit startled or panicky in this situation, even if everyone spoke only English!

We found the crew and staff on the Atlantica charming and helpful and the cruise staff directed all games in 5 languages - they were amazing!

My fond thoughts about Costa will not change, nor my confidence in their ships or crews. I think there will be something uncovered in weeks to come - maybe as someone stated above, a navigational equipment failure, a power failure that disabled equipment, whatever.

Don't let this discourage you from Costa or any other cruise. As my old friend Joseph said, "You're not safe anywhere so you might as well go everywhere". Good words to live by.

Meanwhile, thoughts and prayers to the families and the wonderful people on that tiny island.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 04:39 PM
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From all accounts:
  • The crew was in considerable disarray.
  • passengers had to get life vests on there own, there being no direction whatever from the bridge or the crew.
  • Boats were not lowered until the list was so bad that they could not be, because there was no permission from the bridge to do so.
  • The captain did leave the ship long before all passengers were off.
  • He is being interrogated for potential charges of manslaughter and abandoning ship.
Depending on how many of these things turn out to be true, we can look for some rather drastic changes in the way safety is approached in the cruise industry.

Unanswered questions include:
  • Why did the ship wind up on the rocks?
  • Was it a navigation error?
  • Was there a mechanical-electrical problem which caused the propulsion and steering to malfunction?
  • Why was the coordination, communication and preparedness so abominably lousy?
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 04:42 PM
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Mike M:

Look at the pictures. The ship is lying on her STARBOARD side. Not the PORT.

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  #136 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 04:46 PM
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Excellent post Todd and very good points!!
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 04:49 PM
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The first thing I noted on my last Carnival cruise was where my life vest was located in my room..In part because I was looking for a place to stash a bottle I did not want housekeeping to find..
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
Mike M:

Look at the pictures. The ship is lying on her STARBOARD side. Not the PORT.

PapaBear
Papa,

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Could you eleborate?

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  #139 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 05:09 PM
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I also heard an interview with a number of Americans who are together in Rome. Law suits abound. They've already gotten together as a group for this one and announced it.
If my Insurance Company covered the loss of my personal effects; I suffered no physical injury and the British consul repatriated me - I wouldn't sue. I would be so glad I was alive.

Annie

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Old January 15th, 2012, 05:12 PM
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Good theory Paul.

Iím afraid it will be awhile before we find out what really happened Nancy.
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 05:41 PM
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Default Cruise Line blame the Captain

Breaking news from BBC

Cruise line blames Captain for not following correct procedures
BBC News - Cruise captain 'committed errors', say ship's owners

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Old January 15th, 2012, 05:53 PM
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Paul, Mike, what do you think about combining the few Concordia threads into one thread, so we have a contained thread of info and thoughts?
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Old January 15th, 2012, 05:58 PM
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I wonder, once they refloat the ship,and bring it into a ship yard and, when it is considered seaworthy, sometime in the future, will anyone want to sail it, or will it be sold to some country in another part of the world with a new name?
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Old January 15th, 2012, 06:10 PM
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Surely they will scrap it??
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Old January 15th, 2012, 06:16 PM
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That's another thought, but wouldn't they lose scads of money doing that?
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Old January 15th, 2012, 06:34 PM
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The final word of scrapping will be Lloyd's however she can be refloated. My husband explained what they need to do to get it up then they will take it into a shipyard for inspection before they make a decision on what they will do with it.

Mainly, it's way too soon to say what will happen to it.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 06:58 PM
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This whole tragic accident is just so sad, expecially for the cruising world. We all need some answers, and I hope in the next few days, they can give us some idea of how something like this can happen.
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
Surely they will scrap it??
They will probably refloat it and tow it to drydock for an inspection.
The insurance company (probably. Lloyds of London) will determine shat to do.
It will depend of the cost of repairs versus replacement.

Just like a car that has been an accident.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by felix_the_cat View Post
If they are going to take on passengers at 4 ports then there should be 4 muster drills. Simple as that..................
There is not the slightest indication that lack of muster drills had anything at all to do with this 'accident." According to the news tonight it may well have been due solely to the human error of the captain in sailing too close to shore -- and then to the gross ineptitude of the crew in communications and in knowing what to do.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by anniegb View Post
Breaking news from BBC

Cruise line blames Captain for not following correct procedures
BBC News - Cruise captain 'committed errors', say ship's owners

Annie
Here is the press release from Costa, I don't believe they admitted fault after two days and threw their Captain under the proverbial bus. Lawyers all over the world must be salivating after seeing this statement. By the way, a well known maritime lawyer was on TV last night and stated that any lawsuits have to commence in Genoa, Italy as per the cruise contract.

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/I..._statement.htm
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