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  #181 (permalink)  
Old January 16th, 2012, 03:22 PM
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I have been thinking about all this talk about the musters and how they may or may not played a role in this horrible event.I feel muster drills are an impotant part of the process of going on a cruise no matter how many cruises you have been on! But I also feel that a person should take a responability for your own saftey. Kind of like counting the rows of seat to the exit when you get on a plane.I dont think I want to rely 100% on other people. And it seems that I have seen more then one post stating that well I have been on so many cruises that the muster drills are a waste of time! Who really knows what was happening on that ship as she was going down.
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Old January 16th, 2012, 03:59 PM
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Studies have showed people who have a plan are more likely to survive a survivable situation.
You should know how many doorways or rows there are to an exit.
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  #183 (permalink)  
Old January 16th, 2012, 04:10 PM
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I posted earlier, and asked a question that I still need an answer to.

1. I've never been on a European cruise. Is it any different than a Carribean cruise which has a definitive start/stop? On a caribean cruise, muster is always held just before/at sail away. So they say, "ship doesn't sail unless everyone attends". What was different here? On a European cruise, do people get on/off at each port? Is that why a muster was not done? Just trying to wrap my head around how this works.


Some people are explicitly trained in their jobs to handle danger .... police, fire, ambulance etc. Others are trained for the minute possibility that there may be some harm. I'm sure most flight attendants give off the safety drill, knowing/hoping that they will never have to follow the drill. The best example that I can think of (for me) is that I worked for years as a bank teller. I had training my first week, which said that if robbed, you do this, press this etc. Fortunately, I never had the opportunity to see if I remembered any of that. I'm guessing the same is somewhat true for the crew. They are told (hopefully more often than initial training) what to do in the event of X emergency. No matter what their training, it is human nature to panic when you have an actual emergency.

IMHO, for what they make, its alot to ask them to get us all off the ship safely and risk their own lives in the process. Yes, it is their job, but they have a will to live too.


I received an email this morning, which had some snippets of emails and postings from a woman who was on the ship. It gave me shivers reading her words.



This certainly isn't going to stop me from cruising by any means .... but ..... I can say it's made me feel less safe about cruising in general.
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  #184 (permalink)  
Old January 16th, 2012, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen of Oakville View Post
I posted earlier, and asked a question that I still need an answer to.

1. I've never been on a European cruise. Is it any different than a Carribean cruise which has a definitive start/stop? On a caribean cruise, muster is always held just before/at sail away. So they say, "ship doesn't sail unless everyone attends". What was different here? On a European cruise, do people get on/off at each port? Is that why a muster was not done? Just trying to wrap my head around how this works.

Some people are explicitly trained in their jobs to handle danger .... police, fire, ambulance etc. Others are trained for the minute possibility that there may be some harm. I'm sure most flight attendants give off the safety drill, knowing/hoping that they will never have to follow the drill. The best example that I can think of (for me) is that I worked for years as a bank teller. I had training my first week, which said that if robbed, you do this, press this etc. Fortunately, I never had the opportunity to see if I remembered any of that. I'm guessing the same is somewhat true for the crew. They are told (hopefully more often than initial training) what to do in the event of X emergency. No matter what their training, it is human nature to panic when you have an actual emergency.

IMHO, for what they make, its alot to ask them to get us all off the ship safely and risk their own lives in the process. Yes, it is their job, but they have a will to live too.


I received an email this morning, which had some snippets of emails and postings from a woman who was on the ship. It gave me shivers reading her words.



This certainly isn't going to stop me from cruising by any means .... but ..... I can say it's made me feel less safe about cruising in general.

QoO

I don't know if I will help but on the 3 cruises originating in Europe the Muster Drill was conducted before sailaway.

It may appear, from what I have read, that Costa and MSC only conduct the Muster Drill when they leave their home port. Why? I do not know.

In the Concordia incident, the home port is Savona and the ship had just left Citavecchia where a lot of passengers embarked. Apparently the Italian(?) regulations permit 24 hrs to conduct the muster drill. I find this really strange considering that every time I used a passenger foot ferry for a 5 min crossing the safety announcement was played.

Annie
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Old January 16th, 2012, 04:48 PM
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Press Conference Costa Concordia - Introduction Speech - YouTube


The press conference today.

I heard at the beginning that, people embarked, and, disembarked along the itinerary, so drills were held dependant on then you boarded..most had their drills, some didn't? Is this correct, or not?
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Old January 16th, 2012, 05:24 PM
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Here's a link to an interview, along with video, done with people I know from home, who were passengers on the ship.

Cruise ship 'pandemonium' described by Calgarians - Calgary - CBC News

Though this was a tragic incident, that may have been preventable, I think we do have to realize that someone (either some of the crew or passengers) must have done at least some things right for the vast majority of the people onboard to get off the ship safely.

If the ship has remained upright an orderly evacution could have taken place, and I'm betting most of the crew safety training invoves dealing with that situation.

The chao resulted when the ship listed so severly, the lifeboats on that side of the ship became inoperable, and probably some on the other side as well. That's likely when whatever safety training the crew got went out the window.

Everyone wants to know the facts, and in time hopefully the full details will be made public. I think sometime the rush to "get the story out" by the media (including the cruise media) gives a distored relation of the events; stories made up of conjecture based on partial facts mixed with rumors.
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  #187 (permalink)  
Old January 16th, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Kuki, its just heartwrenching to hear the accounts of these pasengers. What each and every one went through is amazing, and, that more lives were not lost, is just astounding. Decisions made with no authority to say yay or nay Thankfully they are alive and well
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Old January 16th, 2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen of Oakville View Post
I posted earlier, and asked a question that I still need an answer to.

1. I've never been on a European cruise. Is it any different than a Carribean cruise which has a definitive start/stop? On a caribean cruise, muster is always held just before/at sail away. So they say, "ship doesn't sail unless everyone attends". What was different here? On a European cruise, do people get on/off at each port? Is that why a muster was not done? Just trying to wrap my head around how this works.
"European" cruises are no different to any other as far as I know, people get on & off more than we realise & muster drills are still only done when we expect them. I explained how I think the muster worked on this one earlier, they do one at the main point of departure then a video is available for the rest.
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  #189 (permalink)  
Old January 16th, 2012, 06:45 PM
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Very, very sad. My prayers go out to those families who have lost love ones and to the families of those that are injured.
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  #190 (permalink)  
Old January 16th, 2012, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Everyone wants to know the facts, and in time hopefully the full details will be made public. I think sometime the rush to "get the story out" by the media (including the cruise media) gives a distored relation of the events; stories made up of conjecture based on partial facts mixed with rumors.
I can't tell you how much research I did to be on Geraldo, and I found very credible sites that said the rock he hit was not at the island, but 40 minutes later. That was when he suddenly slowed the ship to a crawl, anchored it, and turned it around.

I made a mistake in believing the most logical thing, but now everyone is saying he did hit the rocks on the approach - so why didn't he stop then? That just seems insane.

Reports came out of a listing to port followed bya listing to starboard - but no report ever gave an exact timeline (except one site I read that said the rock was hit 40 minutes after the sail-by). It was very confusing, since most reportrs made it sound like the two listings were almost in sequence, more in keeping with hitting the rock later.

Now it appears hitting the rock did cause a significant listing according to ONE report I read - bit NO other report says "we were passing the island when the ship tilted" - no, they all only say they were eating dinner. Even the people on the bridge didn't seem to notice it. There are no reports of the captain saying "I know I hit a rock" - all he ever said was "I saw we were off-course."

The timeline and location of the rock is just being solidified today - three days later. That is crazy. A lot of it is Costa itself being silent, but they also rightfully say "we don't have the ship data (black box) to see what happened."

Anyway - the lack of specificity about what happened when has been very troubling - just a lot of stories of pandemonium, but not a lot of reports about what exactly went wrong and why.
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  #191 (permalink)  
Old January 16th, 2012, 06:59 PM
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CBS evening news says deathtoll is at 6, but the number of missing has now been increased to 29!
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Old January 16th, 2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyjumpstart View Post
CBS evening news says deathtoll is at 6, but the number of missing has now been increased to 29!
Yes, I head that and there are 10 German nationals missing.
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Old January 16th, 2012, 07:11 PM
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I just read that some of the people who are missing jumped from the ship and tried to swim.

I am hoping they can search the entire ship but for some reason that seems to be much harder than one would think.
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Old January 16th, 2012, 07:16 PM
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In the link in my post above,about the press conference, I was surprised with his body language. His eye contact was minimal, and, the finger business annoyed me. I think he could have been sympathetic, but more forceful in his manner, as they go forward...is it just me?
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Old January 16th, 2012, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
In the link in my post above,about the press conference, I was surprised with his body language. His eye contact was minimal, and, the finger business annoyed me. I think he could have been sympathetic, but more forceful in his manner, as they go forward...is it just me?
I can understand why he's nervous. In six months time all he's going to be saying is: "Vuoi le patatine?".

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Old January 16th, 2012, 09:56 PM
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Thanks Annie and John for answering on my bording question. It just seems so hard to fathom that a muster was not done (not that it would have changed the outcome). This was a major international registered cruiseline .... I can't fathom that rules just don't get followed. Maybe I'm naive, but I can't imagine this happening on another line.


A friend of mine used to work on Princess. She posted this on her facebook account (it was copied from a friend who knows the person that wrote this).

There ia another version of the story,a crew's version,PLEASE READ!!! God bless the crew & the residents of Isola del Giglio! Also, please pray for those who lost their lives in this tragic accident and their families. Remember, what binds a lot of us friends, is that we were & some still are CREW! The following story ...is written by the GSM of the Concordia... ******Ship people will be able to relate to this a bit better than those I know from landlife. Kind of slams the whole thing home. Thoughts? Comments? Here is an account of the events that followed the Costa Concordia striking a reef and sinking off the coast of Italy on Friday evening...written by the Guest Service Manager Manager of the Concordia, who joined the ship on the 13th of January, presumably in Civitavecchia...thank you, Marsha, for sharing this with me... "Unfortunately I don't have my nametag to photograph, because I lost at sea, along with my camera! My name is Katia Keyvanian, I am The GSM (Guest Service Manager) embarked on the 13th of January to substitute my colleague on the Concordia. I can write only a few lines, as I have a train to catch to go home! I would love to be invited by Giletti, Mentana, Vinci and all the other journalists, who without knowledge of the facts and who without verifying their sources, only write nonsense! I wish I could respond to the flood of nonsense and lies that have been said! But for now, until I can say more I can only say this; 'We evacuated 4000 people in the dark, with the ship inclined on it's side, in less than two hours! Those who are "incompetent" are not able to do this. It is not true that the captain was first to leave the ship. I was on the last boat and he remained attached to the railing of deck 3, while the ship was sinking. Shame on you incompetent journalists who wrote that he was the first to leave! I was on the lifeboat, that was sailing away and about to be crushed by the hoist of the sinking ship, which was about to break through our roof. We pulled a lot of guests into the lifeboat who had ended up in the sea, and as we undressed a girl in wet clothes to cover her with a blanket, a guest filmed us with his phone! Shame on you! We executed a rescue operation at sea, and as we pulled another gentleman out of the water, me with a rope tied around my wrist for more strength to pull him up, another man was taking pictures! Shame on you! we had to manage a flock of sheep in jeopardy and then are told that we were incompetent?! Shame on you! While I was inclined to release people who were pushing and screaming, one by one into the boat, a large man who was obviously a passenger smoked a cigarette. When I asked "What the f***are you doing smoking a cigarette in this state, in the dark, with fuel that could come out of the boat?!" and his response was "I need it for stress. I have one thing more to add, before I miss my train ......... We worked for the guests, to save them, to take them to safety, if they are saved, it is only thanks to us alone, all the crew, who did everything. We do not want to be thanked, NO, we have only done our duty, but we do not want to hear all the nonsense, lies, and more lies, just to give you the "scoop" of these so called broadcasts. 4000 PEOPLE IN TWO HOURS, IN THE DARK ... with the ship tilted, we took them WE, THE STAFF CONCORDIA TO SHORE. They did not go themselves in buckets and shovels themselves to the shore! We brought them!! I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the residents of Isola del Giglio, the mayor, who came on board, to verify the situation, (not knowing who he was because he did not have a life jacket!) Thank you with all my heart all, al...l the islanders who worked for all of us, with maximum availability, giving us their colorful blankets, some even knitted of crochet, looking for cell phone chargers, and so much more. Thanks to all of them. Now I'm off to catch a train and go home. See you soon. Oh, I forgot .... one more thing I would like to say "Shame on you!!""
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:05 AM
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Italian Captains??? Seems to be the answer which nobody is saying. I have cruised with MSC/Costa in where the Captains behaviour was questionable more than once, I will never set foot on a ship Captained by an Italian. Sorry that is not racial profilling, just want to be safe. Stay way from these cruise lines and stick with the North American Lines.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
I just read that some of the people who are missing jumped from the ship and tried to swim.

I am hoping they can search the entire ship but for some reason that seems to be much harder than one would think.
To search a vessel under water is a very difficult and dangerous thing it will be dark so you are working by what in effect is torchlight. There will be debris floating around you, you need to lay a line to the point you entered the wreck back that with a line of lights when you have found the main thoroughfare. You have to open cabin doors and enter then into the bathroom in each cabin. Those doors can slam shut again behind you. Each area would need to be marked as it is completed. A lot of people get lost just finding their way back to the cabin imagine trying to do it in the dark when swimming.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 02:15 AM
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The last time I can remember a major ship being run up on a sand bar to avoid sinking was the Monarch of the Seas in 1998 off St-Maarten. I guess too much time has passed and complacency set in. All we can hope is that ALL the cruise lines again start to make safety a first priority.

My mother worked for a major builder of aircraft for many years. Occasionally, they ask for volunteers to conduct an evacuation simulation on their aircraft. She was asked to sign a waiver, because it "can get a bit rough" (bones have been broken in past "simulations"). She said it was quite realistic with a LOT of pushing and shoving. They do this because the "human component" is unpredictable.

The cruise lines rely, apparently, exclusively on computer simulations of passenger behavior in emergencies.
Im guessing the cruise industry will have to tweak their data a bit.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 03:33 AM
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Italian Captains??? Seems to be the answer which nobody is saying. I have cruised with MSC/Costa in where the Captains behaviour was questionable more than once, I will never set foot on a ship Captained by an Italian. Sorry that is not racial profilling, just want to be safe. Stay way from these cruise lines and stick with the North American Lines.
Costa is owned by Carnival and Carnival ships also have Italian Captains.
On my last cruise on Carnival we ran into bad weather and the Italian Captain did a great job in keeping everyone safe.

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Old January 17th, 2012, 09:58 AM
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I've read that posting from the porported crew member in several different places. I don't doubt for a minute that she is reporting what she saw or the timelines she thinks it happened. However I also think she is misinformed on some things. The main one being when the Master left the ship. The Italian coast guard is reporting they told him 3 times to go back to the ship as there were still people aboard. He refused every time. Makes him a coward in my eyes.

I pity the staff that were trying to help. They had no direction, no help from their senior staff. BTW my question to the facebook poster, she obviously carried a managerial position. Where was she during all this? Wasn't her job to be helping passengers?

I agree - I believe the hotel/housekeeping/kitchen staff did the best they could under very trying circumstances and they are not the ones to blame in this.

I would point out - remember the buffet lines where some people push and shove their way in - something that is complained about constantly on certain cruises? They are the same people who were pushing and shoving their way onto the lifeboats.

Even without the lifeboat drills, there is not excuse for the pushing and shoving and trampling that some passengers did. I also read a report where 2 men pushed their wives out of the way so they could get off first. Tells a lot doesn't it.............................
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Old January 17th, 2012, 10:04 AM
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Italian Captains??? I have cruised with MSC/Costa in where the Captains behaviour was questionable more than once, I will never set foot on a ship Captained by an Italian. .
Its the Greek captains that do it for me. Their Behaviour is always highly questionable.

However it is the overall SOLAS and procedures for ship evacuation that should be now concentrated upon.

An earlier poster mentioned that the crew are trained to evucate ship whilst it is upright, and not listing as was the Costa Ship.

Thank God for the crew who stayed on the ship and worked to help others.

Shame on the Captain for getting off the ship way too early , and leaving Junior officers in charge to get the crew and pax off the ship, as reported on Sky news a short time ago.
the transcript of exchange between the captain and italian coast guard was shocking.
Well done to the italian coast guard on their brilliant response to the situation.

I do hope that Justice will prevail.

Last edited by Lynn Knickers; January 17th, 2012 at 10:11 AM. Reason: loss libra pando woman spell check
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Old January 17th, 2012, 10:05 AM
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Five more bodies have been located. So very sad.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Five more bodies have been located. So very sad.
It is really sad, viewing the live TV coverage of this hugely sad event.
The controlled explosions by the authorities,,to access parts of the ship.

Then the removal of some bodies. Very sad.

I must again, say how well the Italian Coastguard are dealing with this.
They appear very professional and in control.

I really must repeat myself, and urge all to view the verbal exchange between the Captain and Coastguard officials, when the Captain left the ship.

Lack of responsibility shown by the Captain.

Last edited by Lynn Knickers; January 17th, 2012 at 10:21 AM. Reason: Libra pando
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Old January 17th, 2012, 10:43 AM
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I've just read that translated conversation. Unbelievable. He was only interested in himself. "I'm fired" is what is said. Yea - well that's the least of his problems. All that time on the phone should have been spent evacuating the ship. Obviously unable to think even the most basic information. Only thought about himself. I find this man sickening and I hope they charge him with murder.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Cruise disaster: captain neared rocks in Facebook stunt for friend's family - Telegraph

Telegraph.co.uk - Telegraph online, Daily Telegraph and Sunday Telegraph - Telegraph
In a pre-planned stunt advertised on Facebook, captain of The Concordia, Francesco Schettino, sailed perilously close to the coast of Giglio so that the ship's head waiter could salute his family on land.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
Cruise disaster: captain neared rocks in Facebook stunt for friend's family - Telegraph

Telegraph.co.uk - Telegraph online, Daily Telegraph and Sunday Telegraph - Telegraph
In a pre-planned stunt advertised on Facebook, captain of The Concordia, Francesco Schettino, sailed perilously close to the coast of Giglio so that the ship's head waiter could salute his family on land.
I listened to the conversation between the Captain and the Coast Guard that is truly one of the most disturbing things I have ever heard! How can someone have such little regard for other people what a piece of $#%**$! Makes you wonder how he ever reach the position of Captain. Is there a shortage so they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel? That really makes me sick to hear him arguing with the Coast Guard and refusing to go back on board to help!I hope he gets what he deserves!
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Old January 17th, 2012, 03:14 PM
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Costa Cruise press conference from Monday Morning - Questions start about 15 minutes in...

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Old January 17th, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Old January 17th, 2012, 04:22 PM
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As a criminal defense attorney the Captain's actions smack of somebody trying to leave the scene of a drunk driving accident. Purely a hunch, of course.
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