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  #211 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2012, 06:10 PM
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Default This route had been taken before

An update which I have just heard is that this ship first used this route ( i.e. so close to the shore in August.) - just two things:

1. That is NOT what Costa said at their press conference yesterday.
2. They are checking to see who was the Captain - that is quite easy.

Annie
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  #212 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2012, 06:17 PM
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While the captains actions in leaving the ship are deplorable - what no one seems to be talking about is what happened between the time he hit the rock and the ship got beached.

This will be a textbook case for years on how NOT to handle a crippled ship.

I just saw this animation of how they think the ship was beached. First the ship listed to port because the tear was on that side and the rock put drag on the ship (turning it inwards) - but the captain then TURNED THE SHIP TO starboard (right) - when you do this a ship is going to list the opposite way (port or left, and towards the shore when he turned the ship around). If he had just STOPPED, then slowly turned it the other way (the ship has bow thrsters) it is possible it would have listed the other direction - and would not have been listing towards that underwater shelf that supposedly caused the final roll to port.


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Old January 17th, 2012, 07:06 PM
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The latest bodies were found wearing lifejackets & apparently waiting to be rescued at a muster station...so much for drills then...
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Old January 17th, 2012, 07:10 PM
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Two names I have heard this week, for the disgraced Captain:

Chicken of the Sea

Captain Crunch

So hard to watch, as each day brings more sadness;(
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Old January 17th, 2012, 07:18 PM
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I watched the Costa news conference and Foschi did admit tht the ship did the same sailby last August - and here is a video of it.. (and it does look REALLY CLOSE)

La nave Concordia vicino al Giglio - Video - Corriere TV
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Old January 17th, 2012, 08:05 PM
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The Editor of LLoyd's List and I quote:

'The company's account of what happened,of the rogue master takig a bad decision, isn't quite as black and white as they originally presented.'

Here is the link:

BBC News - Concordia disaster: House arrest for Captain Schettino

Annie
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Old January 17th, 2012, 08:10 PM
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It's now four days since the Concordia Tragedy. Information is now more substantial and while the missing has increased as have the dead, one must consider that given the situation, the survival rate is thankfully not worse than what it is.

I have written articles for this website and I didn't pull any punches. I calle 'em as I seem 'em. I love cruising and still do. In fact I'm looking forward to the "Ray and Todd show" on the Epic in March. I have never in my life, especially when my wife was alive, just followed simple directions. I've always gone far beyond that. For instance, even after three cruises, I still not only attend the safety briefing (with my life vest no less). Beyond that, I visit the exact spot I'm supposed to go in an emergency. I also am very well read when it comes to previous sea tragedies in order to avoid the pitfalls. In short, I don't need the directions of the crew of what to do or where to go whereas most people don't have a clue because they don't listen or they don't go that extra mile to guarantee their safey in an emergency.

In the case of the Concordia, what happened does not in the least surprise me. The panic, the lack of directions, etc., from the crew are actually to be expected. Let's get serious here; we are expecting people who make very low wages (though they may be literally huge in the areas that they call home) are not going to have the commitment that dedicated sea farers will have. Why? It's not just the pay, it's a combination of factors that combine for the "perfect storm." Secondly, ships often take on new employees on a frequent basis, some of whom have never even been to sea. Plus they follow orders to prevent panic no matter what. That is why even in an emergency, regardless of how serious, they respond, "Oh, everything's okay, it's probably just a simple problem." This is a result that the problem usually doesn't involve safety but rather "creature comforts." They themselves don't usually have a clue as to how serious a problem well might be.

What is inexcusable, as obviously is the case with the Costa Concordia is that the Officers of the vessel didn't immediately convey to the crew and staff how serious the problem really was.

How do we preclude a repeat of this problem? The main answer is simple, "Don't deviate from your programmed course." Say, however, a ship is struck by a ship not following the rules? What does one do now? The immediate and common sense would to be to send an officer to examine the damage. If he/she includes even the remote possibility that the ship may not reamain afloat, then pull out all the stops. Let everyone know There has been a major incident and everyone must report with life jackets and appropriate clothing to their boat stations. Despite whatever time that occurs, if it turns out that such an evacuation is not necessary all that happened would be some inconveniece. If it is determined that to return to one's cabin to retrieve their life vests may be dangerous, then included with the announcement should be a statement to the effect that every lifeboat is fully euipped with life vests and that there are additional life vests near the boat stations.

There should be a crewmember at each station with a roster to insure that everyone reporting there, is assigned to that station.

If not he should either send that/those people to their proper station if time allows.

What I've said with all of this is that it is all basic. VERY BASIC!

Simple. That's the key. The only thing is, the crew (as opposed to the staff), must be made to understand that this is their job, period!
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  #218 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2012, 08:21 PM
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I agree with you before I book a cruise I ask or google the ships Captain.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 08:43 PM
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What info do you think you will find, that will change your mind about booking a specific ship? Is there a site that lists, their history, awards, or any derogatory filings against them?
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  #220 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2012, 09:26 PM
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Todd - it is an excellent post. But the two things need to be added (and I have a unique perspective on this as a former crewmember) is that crewmembers are only trained to do what they are told - they dont get the passenger rosters - the security officers have them.

Where were the officers? There are no reports on any officers being on the scene or anyone being in charge.

All the crewmembers are trained to do is make sure everyone lines up in straight lines and has their lifejackets fastened correctly. That's it.

Secondly - and this is just not being mentioned enough in this case - is that this was a multilingual ship. No one is mentioning this enough - especially the news reports.

These Costa ships are gererally filled with provincial Europeans who do not know English or any other common language - just their own. More sophistocaed Europeans take the English-speaking Holland America, Celebrity, Oceania, Azamara, etc...

Costa is the European version of Carnival - and 1/3 of them had no boat drill at all (696 boarded in Civitavecchia). Plus (being January) these were locals, and Europeans have far less cruising experience.

Of course panic rang out - of course there was confusion and fighting. We are talking about scared people who did not have the ability to understand the situation.
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  #221 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2012, 09:37 PM
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Paul,


Do you realize that both the Captain & the Staff Captain both were on the same launch boat, leaving the ship and it's passengers and crew to themselves. Both men refused to return to the vessel after repeated orders from the Italian Coast Guard.

So lets get this straight, these are Italian Captains, on an Italian Vessel, on an Italian Line, sailing Italian waters; refusing direct orders from the Italian Coast Guard.
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  #222 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2012, 12:12 AM
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Yes - it is sad, and it gives Italian officers a real black eye. The industry phased out Greeks a while back - after Oceanos and Epirotiki. I wouldn't be surprised if Italian officers get a bad rap now.

It's sadly funny, I was actually previously thinking NCL's "cruise like a Norwegian" ad campaign didn't make a lot of sense, until now. Now it makes more sense than ever.
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  #223 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2012, 12:48 AM
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Paul,

The only Italian whom looks good is Italian Coast Guard Commander, Capt. Gregorio De Falco; whom would not take no (I/we don't want to go back on my/our sinking ship) for an answer. I admire Commander De Falco, I do believe him when he told the Captian that he would hold him accountable!! Here is a basic summery of their talk below:


De Falco: "This is De Falco speaking from Livorno. Am I speaking with the commander?"

Schettino: "Yes. Good evening, Cmdr. De Falco."

De Falco: "Please tell me your name."

Schettino: "I'm Cmdr. Schettino, commander."

De Falco: "Schettino? Listen Schettino. There are people trapped on board. Now you go with your boat under the prow on the starboard side. There is a pilot ladder. You will climb that ladder and go on board. You go on board and then you will tell me how many people there are. Is that clear? I'm recording this conversation, Cmdr. Schettino…"

Schettino: "Commander, let me tell you one thing…"

De Falco: "Speak up! Put your hand in front of the microphone and speak more loudly, is that clear?"

Schettino: "In this moment, the boat is tipping…"

De Falco: "I understand that, listen, there are people that are coming down the pilot ladder of the prow. You go up that pilot ladder, get on that ship and tell me how many people are still on board. And what they need. Is that clear? You need to tell me if there are children, women or people in need of assistance. And tell me the exact number of each of these categories. Is that clear? Listen Schettino, that you saved yourself from the sea, but I am going to… I'm going to make sure you get in trouble. …I am going to make you pay for this. Go on board, (expletive)!"

Schettino: "Commander, please…"

De Falco: "No, please. You now get up and go on board. They are telling me that on board there are still…"

Schettino: "I am here with the rescue boats, I am here, I am not going anywhere, I am here…"

De Falco: "What are you doing, commander?"

Schettino: "I am here to coordinate the rescue…"

De Falco: "What are you coordinating there? Go on board! Coordinate the rescue from aboard the ship. Are you refusing?"

Schettino: "No, I am not refusing."

De Falco: "Are you refusing to go aboard commander? Can you tell me the reason why you are not going?"

Schettino: "I am not going because the other lifeboat is stopped."

De Falco: "You go aboard. It is an order. Don't make any more excuses. You have declared 'abandon ship.' Now I am in charge. You go on board! Is that clear? Do you hear me? Go, and call me when you are aboard. My air rescue crew is there."

Schettino: "Where are your rescuers?"

De Falco: "My air rescue is on the prow. Go. There are already bodies, Schettino."

Schettino: "How many bodies are there?"

De Falco: "I don't know. I have heard of one. You are the one who has to tell me how many there are. Christ."

Schettino: "But do you realize it is dark and here we can't see anything…"

De Falco: "And so what? You want to go home, Schettino? It is dark and you want to go home? Get on that prow of the boat using the pilot ladder and tell me what can be done, how many people there are and what their needs are. Now!"

Schettino: "…I am with my second in command."

De Falco: "So both of you go up then … You and your second go on board now. Is that clear?"

Schettino: "Commander, I want to go on board, but it is simply that the other boat here … there are other rescuers. It has stopped and is waiting…"

De Falco: "It has been an hour that you have been telling me the same thing. Now, go on board. Go on board! And then tell me immediately how many people there are there."

Schettino: "OK, commander"

De Falco: "Go, immediately!"

Last edited by gkbii; January 18th, 2012 at 12:53 AM.
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  #224 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2012, 07:39 AM
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Todd, Paul is very correct in his statement about the crew having one job only in emergencies. my grandson, who is working on the Pride of America, has one job for emergencies. He is stationed above the lifeboats and uses the holds the guide rope for a lifeboat. Otherthan that he does not know about other jobs for lettinng down the lifeboats.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 10:15 AM
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I've heard, Captain Coward.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:10 AM
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I don't see where the Captain refused to get back on the ship.
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  #227 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
I don't see where the Captain refused to get back on the ship.
Really you need to lieten to the tapes again then! Because I dont hear any point in the conversation where his hurrying up the ladder to help anyone just floating around in a lifeboat.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:28 AM
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The Captain & Staff Captain never reboarded the vessel as they were ordered to, by the Coast Guard Commander!
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:28 AM
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John, yes he did refuse to go back. In fact he actually told the person that was telling him to go back that well it is dark and others are there. the person that was telling him to go back is either part of the Italian Coast Gurad or at least in charge of the small port at the island. There is a recording of this call and has been transcribed into English.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:35 AM
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That person is not some minor peon either, he is a high ranking officer: Italian Coast Guard Commander, Captain Gregorio De Falco.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:56 AM
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Well, we have our answer now!!! "He fell into the lifeboat and couldn't get out!!!!!!!!!!!" Of all the assine remarks, this takes the cake.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix_the_cat View Post
Well, we have our answer now!!! "He fell into the lifeboat and couldn't get out!!!!!!!!!!!" Of all the assine remarks, this takes the cake.
Felix - your spot on commemts raised a chuckle. I know it is no laughing matter but you did rause a smile.

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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:17 PM
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In my opinion I also think muster drills should be held before any alcohol can be served.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Knickers View Post
Its the Greek captains that do it for me. Their Behaviour is always highly questionable...
Absolutely agree
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Old January 18th, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
Yes - it is sad, and it gives Italian officers a real black eye. The industry phased out Greeks a while back - after Oceanos and Epirotiki. I wouldn't be surprised if Italian officers get a bad rap now.

It's sadly funny, I was actually previously thinking NCL's "cruise like a Norwegian" ad campaign didn't make a lot of sense, until now. Now it makes more sense than ever.
I didn't see this post until after previous post I made in reference to Greeks. I agree with Paul that this will give Italians a bad rap. It may or may not be justified, but it will happen. I know I now question the Italian engineers somewhat with so many problems on the Splendor, QM2, and Magic. The Costa Concordia will become to Italians what the Oceanos became for Greek officers.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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In my opinion I also think muster drills should be held before any alcohol can be served.
That would get my vote.

Annie
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Old January 18th, 2012, 01:29 PM
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The poor captain tripped and fell into the lifeboat and happened to land next to his second and third officers, pure bad luck. This sort of accident could happen to anyone.

Yer right
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Old January 18th, 2012, 01:36 PM
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Just a thought the damage to the side is around six to eight feet below the water line, so these "uncharted rocks" don't show when the water is calm as it was on the night but they must show up when there is a heavy sea running so must have been known about so therefore on the chart.

The angle he came in at brought him much closer to the headland than on previous runs
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Old January 18th, 2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoozeman View Post
Absolutely agree


I don't care what nationality is a captain at all.

there must be Rools for any capitan.

and it must be imposible to any capitan to go his own route
on such cruise schip .

Captain can be from Alfa-Zentavra and a Full 100% Idiot .
That is not a main problem for me !

The main Problem if it is possible to do on ship all what Captain wants.
There must be strong rools for any captain!
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Old January 18th, 2012, 02:54 PM
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I agree with Beenie 100%! this situation was not made any better by the unpreparedness of the crew or the lack of the passengers knowing what to do or the lack of effective communications.

the encounter with rocks was the result of a bizarre decision by a truly strange captain -- who later abandoned ship, passengers and crew, and will hopefully have a few years in prison to contemplate his dereliction of duty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenie weenie View Post
Henry I could not disagree more. Sorry, but muster drills are not only for the benefit of the passengers (which at least they know where their life jackets are, and they know where to find a lifeboat, hopefully at least remembering what a muster station is or where they muster, it also helps parents with children to know if they have appropriate life jackets in proper sizes for the kids and forces the room stewards to provide them.) It is also a valuable practice for the crew... I cannot help but wonder if the report I quoted earlier is accurate and they were so cavalier to only do muster drills every 15 days, how often did they do safety drills for the crew...

I cannot remember one cruise except my Costa Cruise where they did not spend at least one port day out of between 5 and 14 day long cruises doing a crew only safety drill practicing different aspects of their jobs in an emergency situation.

The more this situation unravels and unfolds the more thankful I am for the watchful eye of the U.S. Coast Guard. I promise I will never ever complain again about taking my life jacket to muster drill.
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