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  #241 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2012, 03:03 PM
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I just want to delineater between the "crew" and "staff"

Officers are "staff" - while "crew" are waiters, room stewards, etc.

When it comes to evecuation the "crew" I will bet you the crew was in place and ready as they were trained to be. But they won't do anything until they are led by the officers on what tto do.

The "crew" is not trained in how to lower a lifeboat - that is the safety officers, and other staff members. It was the safety officers who were not on duty.

The crew is only trained to put on & check passenger life jackets, and to line people up to get on lifeboats. I will bet you they were there.

It was the officers who failed here. Plus I just read this...

'Only a disgraceful man would have left all those passengers on board': Hero captain who co-ordinated evacuation slams Schettino | Mail Online
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Old January 18th, 2012, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergej View Post
I don't care what nationality is a captain at all.

there must be Rools for any capitan.

and it must be imposible to any capitan to go his own route
on such cruise schip .

Captain can be from Alfa-Zentavra and a Full 100% Idiot .
That is not a main problem for me !

The main Problem if it is possible to do on ship all what Captain wants.
There must be strong rools for any captain!
There ARE rules! He didn't follow them!
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Old January 18th, 2012, 03:22 PM
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>>There ARE rules! He didn't follow them!


Rules must not be not simply some paper rules,
that was not the first time he made that crazy tour !

Why on hell did not Costa react after first time ???



what would be done if airoplane captain
would fly his own route ?
right !
that would be his last flight as a captain
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Old January 18th, 2012, 03:37 PM
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>>The crew is only trained to put on & check passenger life jackets, and to line people up >>to get on lifeboats

I am not sure about it . I heard every crew member have the second "proffesion" too

so a barkeaper could be if necessary a fireman
and a waitress e.g a nirce.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 03:43 PM
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I think all the crew/staff are told where to go when the alarm goes, they then wait for orders.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 03:50 PM
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AND -- they should most certainly spend a few years in an ITALIAN prison!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by gkbii View Post
Paul,


Do you realize that both the Captain & the Staff Captain both were on the same launch boat, leaving the ship and it's passengers and crew to themselves. Both men refused to return to the vessel after repeated orders from the Italian Coast Guard.

So lets get this straight, these are Italian Captains, on an Italian Vessel, on an Italian Line, sailing Italian waters; refusing direct orders from the Italian Coast Guard.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergej View Post
>>There ARE rules! He didn't follow them!


Rules must not be not simply some paper rules,
that was not the first time he made that crazy tour !

Why on hell did not Costa react after first time ???



what would be done if airoplane captain
would fly his own route ?
right !
that would be his last flight as a captain
That is my question as well.

If a course deviation took place as alleged last August, what did Costa do?

I have worked for shipping companies and I know what they would have done - the Master would have almost certainly been dismissed UNLESS there was a very good reason - i.e. rescuing people from a sinking vessel.

Annie
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Old January 18th, 2012, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoozeman View Post
I didn't see this post until after previous post I made in reference to Greeks. I agree with Paul that this will give Italians a bad rap. It may or may not be justified, but it will happen. I know I now question the Italian engineers somewhat with so many problems on the Splendor, QM2, and Magic. The Costa Concordia will become to Italians what the Oceanos became for Greek officers.
Thus far I haven't heard any thing that would indict the engineering on Concordia.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 04:28 PM
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Paul, I've always gone the opposite. Crew are the ones paid to man the ship and staff are hotel staff, housekeeping staff, laundry staff, front desk staff, entertainment staff. That is the way we deliniated the people who work on the ship. I suppose that having worked on the ships you know otherwise, but just for clarification any postings I have made is meant as I've stated here.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 04:35 PM
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There should be a system .

Costa and maybe a lot of other companies as I feel have no sytem at all.

They should reakt not after but before !!

Every second everywone can see were ship is.

totally false route ?
Costa officails must make a call to captain and ask his what hapens.
If he does not take the right standart route they should pass capitan authority to
1, 2 or even 3 officer.

So simplly 1-2 fone calls could be enought to save thousand of people and ship
and crazy captain could peacfully return to his mother and eat a nice POMODORO PIZZA
but without the captain lizens.

And if there is such SYSTEM even 100% idiot would not change the standart route.
So one would even spare money for for pfone call.

But if there is no SYSTEM everything is possible even with the best and extreem britisch capitan in the world.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 04:49 PM
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I thought I had been paying attention but this is the first I've heard of an off duty Captain (Bosio) on board who took over the evacuation and gave the abandon ship order. He also did what he was supposed to do and he was off duty.

His testimony is going to be damning to Schettino. After reading that article the more I detest Schettino.

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  #252 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2012, 04:56 PM
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This is how I have always looked at crew/staff...

The ship workers are really three categories: staff, officres and crew.

Officers - have shirts with stripes. They do nativigation, safety, fire-fighting, engineers, etc. Also: Hotel Manager, Head housekeeper, chief purser.

Crew: work for the ship (cruise line) but doing more menial tasks; housekeepers, waiters, painters, greasers, washers, room stewards, bartenders.

Staff: the people who work for the cruise line but are not officers or crew: Guests relations, entertainers, cruise director, sports instructors, etc. Ultimately, all staff members abswer to one officer or another;

Navigation - captain
Room Stewards - head hoursekeeper
Maitre D' - Hotel manager
Cruise Director - Hotel manager

Concessionaires are not considered staff, they are in-between. Some are past staff/part crew. A spa manager doesn't have run of the ship, a casino worker is usually only allowed in the casino or below they are not staff.

Every crewmember has a "fire drill" job; traffic director, boat loader, but these are very menial jobs solely meant to assit the overall evacuation. The idea is that they are trained to do one simple thing which the safety officers can come by and check on, and then move on. Some of the more mechanical crewmembers will be taight how to open & lower davits, etc.

it is NOT true that all crewmembers have two jobs (sorry Serge) except on very small boats. A nurse will not be a waitress during the day, unless it is Windjammer or another tiny ship. On river boats I have seen staffmembers cross over on jobs, however.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 05:00 PM
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Mike - every time I think I have the sequence of events figured out some new development comes along. The first I heard about that other captain being onboard was just a few hours ago.

That is exactly what I keep saying about there not being anywhere near enough information about this out yet.

My editorial on the front page asks "Was this a sinking ship?" There is no evidence it was - so it didn't need to beached. It needed to be evacuated (which in normal circumstances can be done in 30 minutes) from an upright positon.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 05:04 PM
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>>duty Captain (Bosio)


I think the real heroes were small Filipinos ( and other "simple" crue) who stay on the ship till last passanger goes with a really big risk for thereown life.

Shame that we would never knows there name - too much of really heroes
were on that ship and they are not Italians.


As for command stuff I think EVERYBODY was more or less gilty on what happens.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
Mike - every time I think I have the sequence of events figured out some new development comes along. The first I heard about that other captain being onboard was just a few hours ago.

That is exactly what I keep saying about there not being anywhere near enough information about this out yet.

My editorial on the front page asks "Was this a sinking ship?" There is no evidence it was - so it didn't need to beached. It needed to be evacuated (which in normal circumstances can be done in 30 minutes) from an upright positon.

Just like with any story it takes sometimes weeks to hear what really happened. Only time will tell the truth or at least I hope.
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Old January 19th, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lss96 View Post
I agree with you before I book a cruise I ask or google the ships Captain.

But how do you know the same captain will be on board when you actually sail???



Here is a video of Concrodia sailing through past Croatia. I don't know if this is the same sailing or even the same captian. You can't account for depth perception, but the ship looks awfully close to land.



http://www.cruisereport.com/crBlogMa...WsZFbQ.twitter




.
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Old January 19th, 2012, 12:27 PM
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for some reason the link doesn't work.

You can paste this into your browser:
CruiseReport TV - CruiseReport.com
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Old January 20th, 2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerogirl View Post
Just like with any story it takes sometimes weeks to hear what really happened. Only time will tell the truth or at least I hope.
Here you can see what had probably happened with Costa Concordia just after colliding with a rock near Le Scole.

http://www.navsim.pl/upload/image/Co...ulation_50.jpg

Thank God they the wind help them to drift towards the shore. Otherwise... I'm sacred to even thing about it what might've happened otherwise.
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Old January 20th, 2012, 11:56 AM
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All the new things coming out on the news leaves you amazed,there is a Moldovian women saying the Captain was great she seems to have been on the bridge,another big no no for Costa,the news that there was two captains is not so strange as command on these cruise ships is handed over sometimes mid cruise and the other captain will then go home,the main thing is that Costa allowed a sail past of this island last year not the captain he was allowed to sail close to the island which is wrong again costa are at fault ,this time the captain decides to run past at night ,maybe to show the lady just how clever he was who knows and smashed the ship,I have today received a email from the CEO of Costa saying how sorry they all were and that Costa always runs its lifeboat drills correctly and the drill is backed up by computer records that show if any passengers have missed it because they have a system of plastic emergency drill cards,well I can tell the CEO that there system does not work as I am looking at my plastic card from my cruise in december nobody came and checked on me as I missed the drill, as I say these large cruise liners can be very safe but they must keep to proper courses which although maybe boring keep everybody safe this Costa and the this captain have failed to do thats the bottom line.
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Old January 20th, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Andrew, I am not sure where that picture came from, but it shows the captain turning a different direction that what we saw before, and it also implies drifting.

I understand things can change - but they really need to nail down what happened - what actions did the captain take?

As far as a lady being on the bridge being a "no no" - I can tell you I have been on many cruise ship bridges, it is not disallowed to have guests on the bridge. I have been on bridges for hours at a time before.
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Old January 20th, 2012, 01:59 PM
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I guess it might be a problem if we found out what she was doing to distrack the Capt. while on the bridge.
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Old January 20th, 2012, 02:17 PM
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Our fears may be realized soon,and we see the ship slip below, and, become a tomb for the lost souls. It's been a week today, and its stllill hard to wrap my head around the images, the gross misconduct, and loss of life.

May the Captain, and others involved if any, rot in jail for life, for the terror they created onboard. Without the heroism & creativity of the passengers,and, many of the crew, there would have more lives lost.

There is so much more of this story to come out, we will be talking about it for a long time.
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Old January 20th, 2012, 02:30 PM
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I have been on many bridges on many ships and turned down a number of invitations as well. I've been invited to take my whole group to the bridge on more than one occassion. It is not a no-no but it is regulated on all ships.
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Old January 20th, 2012, 02:37 PM
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It is no doubt Costa & the Captain was at fault. But must have also caused some commotion would be the many languages. European lines traditionally have to make announcement is 5 languages. I can just imagine the difficulty for me if I experienced trouble on a European cruise lines and seeing people running around shouting in many different languages. Being an American and understanding only English I have decided not to book anymore cruises other that USA lines. Granted an American Company owns Costa, it is not an American line. I will still cruise in Europe but on RCL, Princess, Celebrity, HA etc.

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Old January 20th, 2012, 02:45 PM
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OFC....I would have to say, I agree with you..watching the iphone video's I imagined myself there,not understanding what to do, or where to go. Another level of terror, to the already chaotic situation.
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Old January 20th, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
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OFC....I would have to say, I agree with you..watching the iphone video's I imagined myself there,not understanding what to do, or where to go. Another level of terror, to the already chaotic situation.
As a European who also speaks a bit of Italian, I have always been reluctant to sail on the Italian lines.

Language is one factor but not the only one

Annie

BTW I love Italy (holidayed there approx 20 times) and the Italians but I wouldn't go on holiday with them - the noise level would be too much.
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Old January 20th, 2012, 04:40 PM
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FOUND THIS....
Carnival is to carry out a major review of its safety and emergency procedures
following the Costa Concordia tragedy.

The announcement comes as amateur video footage has emerged showing Concordia
crew telling passengers that nothing was wrong and advising them to go back to
their cabins, after the ship began taking in water.

It is believed that the delay in deciding to evacuate the ship may have cost
lives.

At least 11 people have died and hopes are fading for the 21 who remain missing
after the ship hit rocks off the Tuscan coast a week ago.

Rescue workers have been forced to stop their search again after the ship moved
in choppy seas.

According to BBC reporters at the scene, rescue officials fear the ship could
suddenly slip into much deeper water.

This morning Carnival, which ownes Costa, P&O, Cunard, Princess Cruises and
other cruise brands, admitted that the tragic accident had "called into question
our company's safety and emergency response procedures and practices".

Micky Arison, chairman and CEO of Carnival Corporation & plc, said: "While I
have every confidence in the safety of our vessels and the professionalism of
our crews, this review will evaluate all practices and procedures to make sure
that this kind of accident doesn't happen again."

The review is being led by Captain James Hunn, a retired US Navy Captain and
currently the company's senior vice president of Maritime Policy & Compliance.

Hunn and senior health and safety executives from each of the lines will review
all safety and emergency response policies and procedures, officer and crew
training and evaluation, bridge management and company-wide response and support
efforts.

The cruise line is also bringing in outside industry-leading experts in the
fields of emergency response organisation, training and implementation to
conduct an audit of all of the company's emergency response and safety
procedures and to conduct a thorough review of the Costa Concordia accident.

Yesterday at a press conference, the Cruise Lines International Association
called for a major safety review by the International Maritime Organisation.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
FOUND THIS....

This morning Carnival, which ownes Costa, P&O, Cunard, Princess Cruises and
other cruise brands, admitted that the tragic accident had "called into question
our company's safety and emergency response procedures and practices".
.
It is worrying that with all the different Cruise Line "Brands" out there, most are owned by the "Big two"... carnival And Royal caribbean, and both seem to set industry standards.

I hope that an independent evualation can be made of this mess, and I really hope the Captain and his second in command get what they deserve.
In my opinion, its time inside.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 07:46 PM
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There are a lot of issues with this. It does show that the best laid plans do not always work - they put everything on paper but the one thing you cannot count on is human nature.

So many are saying Capt. Coward should not have been at the helm and obviously he should not have. But what in advance, would have told the company that? There had never been such an episode, nothing like this had happened to this person and his officers and crew.

The fact is, no one knows how they are going to react until the event happens. We can all say "woulda - coulda - shoulda" along with I would have done this and that but in fact, until you are faced with the situation you truly don't know how you are going to react.

I am in no way defending this moron. He is a narsasistic loser. However I am saying there is no one of knowing what would have truly happened if someone with a backbone had been at the helm.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Sadly, as of this morning the death toll is up to 15 with the additional discovery of two more women. It does look like they will begin pumping the fuel out of the ship while the search continues which is good to get that started.
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