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Old January 3rd, 2008, 03:51 PM
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Default Cruise crew are over worked

.

Since u people have such high opinions to my post i will delete it.

My opinions still stand strong.. cruise crew are over worked, under paid and in spite of those circumstances they greet you every chance they get with a smile on their face willing and able to conquer every request. I give them each and every one of them all the credit in the world. They do a fantastic job. I recognize that and appreciate it is why I started this post in the first place.

Beenie weenie on the other hand feels upper class and as American thinks that is just the way it should be, and in your words its better than in their own countries. Well that in itself is selfish, not my original argument. I feel these wonderful people make our vacations perfect and cruises today would not be what they are if it weren't for their hard work and dedication.. Imagine going on a ship and being greeted by the same people who work at your local grocery store or Target/Walmart.. I really do not think you would feel the same about cruising if those were the types of people waiting to serve and greet you. Crews crew are special people and they deserve to be treated more fairly when it comes time to being paid, getting more breaks and having off time on the ship.

One thing I have forgot to mention is, A few years ago I was hired by a nanny agency to work in the child care center for one week- Rosie O'Donnell rented a ship and had a gay & lesbian cruise. The contract was set up that we would work certain hours, and the rest of the time was to be our free time. We could go about the ship as regular guests.. That is exactly the same set up I feel should be placed for regular cruise crew... and that is what I was trying to explain earlier with free time. I didn't wind up working however, something came up. but if I did, that would have been the ideal job as I feel should be for the current crew..

Take with that what you will. flip it and turn it upside down inside out.. complain and say I am immature. But regardless of what you say, those crew make cruises unbelievably fun, entertaining and perfect. They deserve the best that can be given to them.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 11:47 PM
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Lol

I'm curious Animal Rights - what country are you from?

Cruise ships seem to follow the US system when it comes to staffing. In US restaurants the restaurant pays a token salary, and the meat of the take-home-pay is tips. Cruise ships expect their passengers to tip their servers in the same way.

I personally ( as a European ) believe that a servers salary should be paid by the employor, and anything paid to the server directly by the customer should be considered a bonus. I think that if I see a £10 price tag, the item should cost £10 total. In the US however ( whose model cruise ships seem to follow ), you're expected to add sales tax, and if applicable a 10-15% tip to that price.

I don't think they're slaves - they just get their pay from a different source (ie direct from the customer).
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Old January 4th, 2008, 12:08 AM
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Im from the US... and I am highly against tipping. Restaurant owners should pay their employees, rather than the tipping system. Every other bussiness is run by salary, as waiting tables should be! Here in the US minimum wage for a waiter is ... i dont know, maybe $1.50 per hour.. the rest are tips.
Why on Earth should we have to go to a restaurant, for example order $100. worth of food + beverages and then have to pay the normal 20% = $20 ontop of a $100. bill? we should not have to pay the restaurant employees- the owner should! Same as I feel for cruising. These owners are BILLIONAIRES, while the crew that work them and make them what they are, are only being tipped the recomended $3.50 per day???

One crew member we made friends with was this sweet guy... mind you this was a 12 day cruise... i always saw him by the juice machines and ice cream.. i asked him, how do you get tips if you are always here and never in the dining room? He said he didnt work in the dining room during this cruise sailing, he will be working on the next cruise. MEANING- he did not get paid a dime during those 12 days!!! I saw this guy literally from 6am-12am non stop!! That is rediculous and that cannot be right! Or legal!
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Old January 4th, 2008, 12:17 AM
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Also to include- I am from the US, so I am accustomed to tipping. I dont want to generalize, but I hear that European countries and especially spanish regions, are not used to tipping, so they do not do so. Many crew go untipped because their guests are not aware that this is there only source of salary... as it always states "tipping recomended" not.. "tipping mandatory!"


Tipping used to be used when you want to really acknowledge excellent service- why and when did this become the only source of income for wait staff?

Like I said, why should we have to pay for a service, and ontop of that, have to pay the employees?? :evil:
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Old January 4th, 2008, 05:45 PM
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Default Slaves? Come on now.

Cruise ship crew do work incredibly hard by typical American standards, and it is only right that kind and consciencious cruisers appreciate this, treat them kindly and tip them well.
But if this job sucked so bad, they wouldn't be competing for the jobs. Also, slaves have no choice in the matter, and aren't paid at all.

One other thing, like I said, I truly appreciate the hard work of the folks that make my cruises so much fun. I go out of my way to talk to some of these extraordinary folks when I'm on board. When I return, I remember them and usually, (amazingly) they remember me. BUT.

But, don't fool yourself. While most are genuinely happy to be there and enjoy chatting with the cones, some view you as a "mark" and will play a sob story of how hard they have it to the hilt for the sole purpose of generating higher tips. I tip them well anyway, because they are there to make a living, and you do what you gotta to pay the bills.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Rights
Im from the US... and I am highly against tipping. Restaurant owners should pay their employees, rather than the tipping system. Every other bussiness is run by salary, as waiting tables should be! Here in the US minimum wage for a waiter is ... i dont know, maybe $1.50 per hour.. the rest are tips.
There's a very simple solution - stop tipping. If you get everyone else in your country to do the same thing, then restaurant owners will either (a) lose staff, or (b) start paying them.

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Why on Earth should we have to go to a restaurant, for example order $100. worth of food + beverages and then have to pay the normal 20% = $20 ontop of a $100. bill? we should not have to pay the restaurant employees- the owner should!
The customer is going to pay anyway. If you were using the European system, your bill would have come to around $130 - the extra markup is used to cover employee salary and VAT( sales tax ). The difference is that the European system is open, clear and transparent, whilst the US system aparently encourages better service.

Waiting is quite lucrative in ireland in hotels marketed at americans - they get ( at least )full min wage $12.75 / hr + us-style tips.

Quote:
Same as I feel for cruising. These owners are BILLIONAIRES, while the crew that work them and make them what they are, are only being tipped the recomended $3.50 per day???
I fail to see your point. They could afford to pay their waiting staff more, but then they'd have to raise their prices, and become uncompetitive - when US passengers pay the waiting staff anyway through tips.

Quote:
One crew member we made friends with was this sweet guy from Peru... mind you this was a 12 day cruise... i always saw him by the juice machines and ice cream.. i asked him, how do you get tips if you are always here and never in the dining room? He said he didnt work in the dining room during this cruise sailing, he will be working on the next cruise. MEANING- he did not get paid a dime during those 12 days!!! I saw this guy literally from 6am-12am non stop!! That is rediculous and that cannot be right! Or legal!
I can only assume that they rotate it around between themselves.

Do we have any waiters here to clarify the situation.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 10:17 AM
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When I was on the Destiny last September, we met this waiter from suriname, and start talking to him, because of the language (dutch), suriname used to be a dutch colony, but anyway, he told us that each month he makes between 3500 and 4000 USD!! He has to work very hard , but he said that in his country,he would never ever had this salary. And I think this counts for a lot of other countries. Therefore you have a lot of people from the Phillipines, Indonesia and caribbean, latin america working on those ships. And in their country they work harder for a friction of that salary (maybe 200 usd).Most cruise lines pay them only usd 50 p/m, so it's not only Royal Caribbean
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Old January 13th, 2008, 12:25 PM
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Default GARBAGE!

what's up with this SLAVE theme today?

it's the second thread I have come across with such garbage!

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Old January 13th, 2008, 01:42 PM
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Sounds to me as though you are more upset that you and your new found friend couldn't "hook up" and about the fact that you had to pay gratuities rather showing any true concern about this person's welfare. It also occurs to me that if you gave a fat rat's patootie about this person, you would not have attempted to jeopardize his/her career or position with the cruise line by enticing them to join you in illicit acitivities. I can also tell you, the last thing I want on vacation is to be pursued by a crew member. That would make me extermely uncomfortable, especially if it were someone who had access to my cabin. These rules and policies are in place for the passenger AND the crew member's protection and safety.

I am not sure where you studied economics, but the bottom line is that there is no free lunch, if you do not tip, and the employer has to pay a higher wage, your price will increase. No matter what, higher overhead gets passed on to the consumer.

Show some respect, maturity and consideration. There are more important things in life than risking someone elses career to get your jollies! Many of these crew members are lonely, away from their spouses for long periods of time. It is tacky, cruel and unfair to play the temptress, when they are in a position of vulnerablity. You would be surprised how many are married with children. They are on the cruise ship to make a living wage to support their families not "HOOK UP" with you!

You have also probably cost your waiter his job. As you may or may not know the cruise line executives read these boards and you of course mention that you and he "HOOKED UP" in other threads you irresponsibly mention his full name, which if I were you I'd hurry up go back and edit that out. Geez Louise, you've been a real pal to the crew... bet they can't wait to see you again.
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Old January 13th, 2008, 03:25 PM
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This is just the way the industry works and pays its workers. All the cruiselines follow that tipping procedure, not just Royal Caribbean, its just the way it is.
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Old January 13th, 2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
This is just the way the industry works and pays its workers. All the cruiselines follow that tipping procedure, not just Royal Caribbean, its just the way it is.
Not all cruise lines work this way.

I disagree with Animal Rights...given the demand for these cruise ship positions, the total compensation paid is definitely adequate. As for the work hours, check out the hours of our deployed troops and sailors. Not everyone works eight to five with an hour for lunch and smoke breaks on the hour.
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Old January 13th, 2008, 07:05 PM
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Ok first of all beenie weenie, The waiter I mentioned in another post was my main waiter in the dining hall.. he was not the waiter I "hooked up" with. I have never stated his name, I am not stupid. There are NUMEROUS waiters on a cruise ship. Are you forgetting there is a Wind Jammer, Portofinos, Jonny Rockets, Breakfast in the Dining hall as well as dinner and MANY more restaurants!??? I mentioned my waiter in the dining hall because he was a fantastic and outstanding server, and he deserved the credit.
Secondly you do not have to be so down right nasty.. My post was not to complain about myself having to tip as I tipped $100. each to all 3 people who are supposed to get tipped "the recommended $3.50. My post was meant to acknowledge the fact that cruise workers are under paid and over worked. I would see the same person doing three jobs, working from 6am- 12am the next night. They work 7 days a week continuously with NO days off. They sign a 6 month contract working CONTINUOUSLY for SIX months... with a 2 month break and then can sign another 6 month contract. If that is not some sort of slave labor I dont know what else to call it.
And by the way since you sound so down right cruel and for some reason OFFENDED by my meeting someone who worked on the ship it was not just "hooking up".. we talk every day and he will be visiting me shortly for two weeks. Something is developing. These people who work on the ships are real people and they deserve to have feelings and experience them. Not turn into robots with smiles for 6 months of their lives. He did absolutely nothing wrong while on the ship, breaking no rules in his contract. We met up on the islands as friends and whatever happened from there happened. Dont sound so offended by it and please realize these people do have a right to a social life!
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Old January 13th, 2008, 08:16 PM
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Hooking up is your word, not mine. The crew know exactly what the rules are when they sign up. If I really respected and cared about someone, I would not expect them to put their job in jeopardy to "hook up" and the fact that you mention this fellow was your waiter "I wanted my waiter to meet me on top deck after he finished his shift," generally that would lead one to believe you are referring to the waiter who was assigned to you in the dining room. Also since you mention that you spoke to him many times...which is an opportunity probably only afforded to you in the dining room, since these folks do have several jobs throughout the day and really can't just excuse themselves to go hang out on deck with a passenger. That same waiter is the same one whose name you mentioned. So let's be clear even if the guy whose name you posted on here isn't the one you "hooked up" with, it certainly put the waiter whose name you posted here for the world to see, in a precarious position, which is horrible.

These people do have a right to a social life, just not with a passenger, while they are working on a ship. Those are the terms of their employment and for you as a guest to encourage this sort of behavior is reckless and irresponsible, not to mention selfish. First of all there is a reason people are willing to subject themselves to grueling schedules and less than ideal circumstances, it is because it is even worse in the countries they came from and they are looking for a way out. I admire and respect them for doing their jobs and trying to improve their quality of life and that of their family.

With regard to your statement about tips. I can assure you that these people cannot do nearly as well in their homelands which is why they work for the cruise line. This is an improvement from their current standard in living. If the cruise line did away with tipping, they would most certainly raise the prices and they would cut back so they are still equally as profitable. So chances are the crew would be making less than they are today because they would be paid an hourly rate or salary, and they'd be doing more work and the bulk of the work would be spread between fewer people.

So no matter what sort of labor movement you think you may be organizing, there will always be people out there who will fill those positions making $50 per month plus tips (those tips add up) because it's the best chance for a better future many of these people will ever see. Just because you didn't "hook up" on the ship and arranged a clandestined meeting somewhere in port. You have nothing to lose really but the people who work on the ship do. They are in a vulnerable, subordinate position and I feel that some people could take advantage of it and probably would or have.

You may think I am mean and cruel, that's OK, I can live with that. But realize that if you are an American citizen, to some citizen's of other countries, that is like a big golden ticket to the American dream. I am not saying that is the situation in your case. But I stand by my original post and feel as though you behaved in a reckless and selfish manner and regardless of how you try to revise your post now, you did and posted some things that could really hurt these people who you claim to be advocating for. Sounds like you are simply advocating for yourself, not the cruise ship workers.

I'll tell you something else, as someone who is married to a non-U.S. Citizen. This is free advice to anyone considering bringing someone into the U.S. because you think your relationship is "developing" you had better do your homework, because I know firsthand what is involved and it is a long bumpy road.

I do not expect anyone who works on a cruise ship to behave as a robot, but I do expect them to behave professionally and not be "hooking up" with the passengers, be it at port or sea.
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Old January 13th, 2008, 08:29 PM
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Default For crying out loud................

LMAO, Beenie, you are treating the crew like slaves!

LaughingMyBigFatAss off at this one

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Old January 13th, 2008, 08:33 PM
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Yup that's me! The slave driver. Lol right! I think the captain is begging for 30 lashes.

Really I'd hate to see any of these hard working people to lose their job. Because they have a passenger with hot pants.
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Old January 13th, 2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenie weenie
Yup that's me! The slave driver. Lol right! I think the captain is begging for 30 lashes.

Really I'd hate to see any of these hard working people to lose their job. Because they have a passenger with hot pants.
Hit me baby one more time...........


But seriously, here we are in 2008 and we are discussing SLAVERY. What a poor choice of words, in my opinion.

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Old January 13th, 2008, 08:38 PM
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You are too funny!! Sick, but funny!
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Old January 13th, 2008, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenie weenie
You are too funny!! Sick, but funny!
I don't know if I should be thanking you or not for that compliment OOOPS I DID IT AGAIN!
Come to think of it, the Mrs might agree with you on one of those adjectives you used to describe me. I'll let you be the judge as to which adjective it is. LMAO

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Old January 14th, 2008, 12:06 AM
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someone i know their son works on a ship and does very well for himself. he doesnt have to work year round and does pretty well making ends meet and he is an american living in the us.
as for overworked and unpaid...... hands down its the people who work in the fast food industry. they are paid the lowest wage possible, no tips, no benefits and have to work their tails off.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 12:15 AM
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"Take with that what you will. flip it and turn it upside down inside out.. complain and say I am immature. But regardless of what you say, those crew make cruises unbelievably fun, entertaining and perfect. They deserve the best that can be given to them."

It sounds like you sure gave your best!
Since the guys coming back for more of it!

You really do not know of what you speak, and what you posted here did crew members a lot more harm than good. I hope "your waiter" still has a job and doesn't get forced to go home. It would be a shame.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 12:48 AM
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yes well im sure you care so much since you reported my post to the web site editors. way to go. Seems like you are the one trying to point it out and make a scene. you are rediculous. And yes he still has a job smart #$@. He calls me daily. Get off it, he is human and DESERVES A LIFE. If anything Royal Caribbean gains my bussiness as I will continue to book more cruises specifically so we can see eachother. I have already booked a cruise for June. He will get some sort of a family pass so he can actually see me beyond his working quarters. All he needs to do is get permission prior to the sailing date. He also got me a cheaper rate than what the web site offered.
so keep going ........
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Old January 14th, 2008, 01:01 AM
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I asked them to remove his name to protect him, because as I said, people from the cruiselines do read these boards, and I sure wouldn't want anyone losing their job over this.
You may want to read the terms of service of this site, because you just violated a few of them in that last post.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenie weenie
You may think I am mean and cruel, that's OK, I can live with that. But realize that if you are an American citizen, to some citizen's of other countries, that is like a big golden ticket to the American dream.
Had to laugh when I read that. I would never have considered US Citizenship to be a golden ticket - more a ball & chain. I'm just trying to imagine a European Government telling me I have pay income taxes to them just because I'm a citizen, even though I'm not living there. I can't picture them telling me that I can't go to Cuba either.

I reckon it's better if you're not born a US Citizen, to go for Permanant Residency Rights instead. That gives you the freedom to work in the US, without the Ball-in-Chain, should you choose to leave it.

Quote:
I'll tell you something else, as someone who is married to a non-U.S. Citizen. This is free advice to anyone considering bringing someone into the U.S. because you think your relationship is "developing" you had better do your homework, because I know firsthand what is involved and it is a long bumpy road.
It's very intresting that you know all this. It would be even more interesting if you could explain some of it. I don't really care what you know, unless you're prepared to share that knowledge.
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Old January 14th, 2008, 02:02 PM
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Arion, People are willing to risk their lives to come to the United States. I have relatives who live in or have lived in the UK, Holland and Belgium and while they are all lovely places and I'm sure great places to live, the cost of living is very high. I'm not knocking it, I am just thankful and happy to be where I am, living my life the way I want to live it. Had I been born in a different part of the world, my life might very well have turned out very differently. I might be the one so desperate to escape, that I would do anything necessary to provide myself and the one's I love a better life.
One of my relatives is Dutch and during the time he lived in the states he had issues with the income tax situation as well, but for most of Americans that is never an issue because they work in the area they live, and do not make their living outside the country.

So I understand why it frustrates you, but I cannot think of anywhere else I would want to be, and the fact remains that people are willing to die to come here to escape political and economic oppression.

With regard to bringing someone to come into the United States to live here as a permanent resident, it has become increasingly difficult, and nearly impossible in certain cases to do so. Some people have this idea, that hey if we get married they have to let him in right? Wrong. It doesn't work that way. It is a very expensive proposition, ton's of paperwork for something that is far from a slam dunk, especially since September 11, 2001. Fortunately d/h and I met long before that and went through the entire process a couple of times due to the INS "misplacing" quite a bit of documentation, several times. We waded through it and perservered, finally we were able to get married and thought we were out of the woods. Well we left the United States and drove up to Canada, we flew from Toronto to the Dominican Republic for our honeymoon. Everything was beautiful. A week passes and we return to Toronto then drive back to croos the border to come back into the States. It was like a nightmare, the INS had screwed our paperwork up so badly and they would not let my husband back into the United States. I had to leave him in Canada, and come home alone. I drove all night and showed up the next morning on my U.S. Congressman's door, luckily I had engaged their help in completing the INS paperwork in the first place so they were up to speed on what had transpired prior to our honeymoon. Well it nearly took and act of congress, but they did come through for me and helped me get my husband back, but I have no illusions that if any of this had transpired after 9/11, my husband would probably still be in Canada, and I would be a permanent resident of that fine country. So my point is do your homework, find out all that is required before embarcing on this journey. It is a lot of work and in many cases people who go through it are not successful and spend years apart from their loved one and even once you get your loved one into the US legally, it can be a very long time before they authorized to work legally in the United States, so be prepared to carry the financial load all by yourself. Also when you do bring this person in to the U.S. you are 100% responsible for them financially and if they get into trouble, you'll be in trouble with them, because you are their sponsor.

I have no regrets, but it has been a very long road. Here I sit 11 years and two kids later. Life has been good, and I am so thankful we met before 911, because I don't know if our story would have had a happy ending otherwise. I would have elaborated more last night, but at that point I didn't think anyone was really interested in what I had to say

Thanks for asking.
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Old January 15th, 2008, 09:12 AM
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You seem to have gotten the wrong end of the stick beenie weenie - I'm not frustrated - I'm releived.

As an Irish Citizen, I'm free ( visa pending ) to go to and work anywhere in the world ( including Cuba, and North Korea ), and to do so without paying taxes ( except Airport taxes for the departure ) to the Irish Government whilst away.

If I were a US Citizen I would not have these rights.

I intend to work in the US at some stage for maybe a couple of years. Heck I might even stay there. I will not however sacrifice my freedom as an Irish/EU Citizen to do so. Your difficulty in getting your partner into your country is a liberty that I refuse to part with.
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Old January 15th, 2008, 11:19 AM
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Arion, I totally understand where you are coming from. My husband has retained his citizenship and we are still undecided whether he will choose to become a U.S. Citizen at some point because of some of the same reasons you eloquently stated and a few others. Our children will carry dual citizenship so they might enjoy the benefits and opportunities afforded to both. If you do make it to the United States to reside, please let me know. We do travel a lot on business (and pleasure) and we try to get to meet as many of our Cruisemates as possible. I hope to make it to Ireland at some point as some of my ancestors came from Wexford and I'd love to see if I can find them. The left Ireland to go to England in the late 1600's or early 1700's. I can't wait to explore your beautiful country.

Now to clarify one minor thing, I can go to Cuba, however I would have to fly there from Canada. I would also go at my own risk with no diplomatic protections. That was one of the places d/h wanted to take me for our honeymoon. I Actually got to see Havana and other parts of Cuba as we passed it on a ship a month or so ago. I do believe at some point based on what happens when Castro dies, travel from the US to Cuba will be a reality, but for now I can explore the rest of the world. There's still plenty out there for me to see.

I hope you have smooth sailing!
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Old January 15th, 2008, 03:13 PM
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Hiya Beenie,

I am sure you are well aware that citizens of certain countries with whcih the United States has a reciprocal agreement can become US citizens and still be citizens of their native country, although there is a complicated procedure to follow, but I am sure you are well aware of that too.

Dual citizenship has many benefits, as an example in our case I can mention that we both have traveled to parts of the world where for obvious reasons no one in his right state of mind would travel to start with even moreso travel there under a US passport, that's where our EU passport comes handy. And we have visited both Libya and Israel under our EU passports, something which is practically impossible to do with just a US passport.

So if your husband does hail from one of those countries which has a reciprocal dual citizenship agreement with the United States, I would encourage him to apply for US citizenship. On a personal level, as his wife and mother to his children, keep in mind that there are various financial undesirable situations you can find yourself in the God-forbid event that your husband were to pass away, as many tax and estate laws that we as US citizens take for granted, do NOT apply to non US citizens, even if they are legal residents of the US. Just food for thought. I do not mean to be nosey but thought I would share my knowledge about this subject. Feel free to PM if you have any questions about this matter.

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Old January 15th, 2008, 04:03 PM
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Thank you Captain, I am aware of what you are referring to, but not as aware as I should be. I do know there is some estate planning changes that we need to make because of some of our unique sitaution. I need to care for these issues and to be honest I have been remiss. Procrastination has gotten the better of me in this area and while I have nothing to lose really, it could put my husband in a tough predicament should anything happen to me. If d/h does become a U.S. Citizen it will be several years from now probably as we get closer toretirement age. for financial reasons. But the kiddos will definitely be taking advantage of dual citizenship.

Thanks so much for your concern and words of wisdom. You reminded me of some thing that I need to get done and forgot about.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 11:34 PM
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Default yes, staff are underpaid

Yes, staff are underpaid, family member gets paid 1500 / US monthly for coordinating position on ship. They are overworked, HR does not acknowlegde or value thier employees, they are just numbers, easily replaced, jobs always on the line. If only passengers knew the real truth.
enough said,hot topic for me.

Be kind, Be patient, Be respectful, they are someone's children working.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 03:11 PM
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Here in the US minimum wage for a waiter is ... i dont know, maybe $1.50 per hour.. the rest are tips.

Oh come on.....restaurants pay whatever the minimum wage is that's true. But minimum wage is nowhere near that low anywhere in this country. In California it's $8.00 per hour and soon to go to $8.25 per hour. They get tips on top of that.

I've told you a million times not to exagerate!!!
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