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  #1 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Question drug test question

quick question for those who have been hired.

if your drug test turns back negative, but the level checks provide traces of thc, will you be denied employment? this goes for any cruise lines, like carnival
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Old March 15th, 2012, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by stravinsky63 View Post
quick question for those who have been hired.

if your drug test turns back negative, but the level checks provide traces of thc, will you be denied employment? this goes for any cruise lines, like carnival
I dont know any of the cruise lines policys but a little common sence would tell you that a dirty test is a dirty test.I guess what it all comes down to is how bad do you want this job? Whats more important this job or smoking a litttle weed once in a while? You are the only one that can answer that question take care and good luck
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Old March 17th, 2012, 02:08 AM
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The International Maritime Organization requires that every crewmember on international ships must pass a drug screen test before being hired. This is the same test given to airline pilots.
All the major cruise lines also have onboard random drug testing nearly every week
Failing once before or during employment results in a lifetime employment ban.

The US Immigration authorities also insist that any international ship crewmember get a special visa to work on a ship in US waters. If you fail any drug test, they willl not issue that visa to you - ever.

Most cruise lines will not hire a crewmember who cannot get the US Visa.

Even a slight trace of thc on a drug test is a failure.
Note that thc stays in your system for at least three months or longer.
These tests are very sensitive. Even eating poppy seed cakes a few days before a test can result in a failure for opiates.

Sadly, the vast majority of Americans who take this drug test fail it. As a result, the cruise lines take a very hard look at any American who manages to pass the test. I am an American citizen who has passed this test countless times over the past 32 years, so it is possible.

We all have serious safety duties that require a clear mind 24/7.
If you are - or were - taking illegal drugs, we don't need you.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 09:26 AM
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I have an issue with hyper sensitive tests, if they are so sensitive they detect poppy seeds or that you have been in the same room as someone smoking "substances" this must be wrong surely?
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Old March 17th, 2012, 08:16 PM
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If the tests sere not so sensitive, and could not detect recent illegal drug use, you might have other issues.

When the airplane you are flying on is in trouble, would you mind if the pilot had taken LSD the week before and still passed his drug test?

If you were a passenger on Costa Concordia, would it bother you that the waiter assigned to save your life was smoking hashish that evening because he had passed his weekly drug test yesterday, and next week's test would not be sensitive enough to notice that he was stoned the night you were in danger?
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Old March 18th, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
If the tests sere not so sensitive, and could not detect recent illegal drug use, you might have other issues.

When the airplane you are flying on is in trouble, would you mind if the pilot had taken LSD the week before and still passed his drug test?

If you were a passenger on Costa Concordia, would it bother you that the waiter assigned to save your life was smoking hashish that evening because he had passed his weekly drug test yesterday, and next week's test would not be sensitive enough to notice that he was stoned the night you were in danger?
What if that same waiter had been up most of the night drinking? Would that bother you as much as if he had smoked a joint a few days ago?Or if your airplane piolt was off with the stewardist parting it up the night before drinking?I agree I would rather not have my pilot or someone who is in charge in a critical situation stoned on drugs.But I really dont think that smoking a joint on your own time the night before work is going to affect your ability to do your job .So there we have a double standard,Drug test will show if you smoked a joint three weeks ago but not if you drank alchohol.Which the drug test is actually just showing a pattern in ones behavor.But wont show any pattern for alchohol.But I guess alchohol is legal so what are you going to do?
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Old March 18th, 2012, 11:21 AM
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I was trying NOT to get pulled into this discussion.

I am a legal (in my State) medical marijuana patient. I also love micro brewed beer so I am well aware of the effects of both.

I would MUCH rather have a captain or a crew member who had smoked MJ the night before that one who drank the night before. One would be fine the other nursing a hangover.

Of course NO ONE wants anyone in a position of responsibility to be high or drunk. I am just saying we really need to start treating marijuana realistically now that it has been studied and shown to be beneficial with little or no side effects AND we need to understand just how harmful alcohol is.

I do understand the reason for drug testing and, actually think that they need to do this for the safety of their passengers. However, due to the fact that mj is not as bad as alcohol they do have a double standard. Also, and I hate to mention this, it is VERY easy to thwart many of the tests for THC making these tests inaccurate at the best.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Marsdude View Post
I was trying NOT to get pulled into this discussion.

I am a legal (in my State) medical marijuana patient. I also love micro brewed beer so I am well aware of the effects of both.

I would MUCH rather have a captain or a crew member who had smoked MJ the night before that one who drank the night before. One would be fine the other nursing a hangover.

Of course NO ONE wants anyone in a position of responsibility to be high or drunk. I am just saying we really need to start treating marijuana realistically now that it has been studied and shown to be beneficial with little or no side effects AND we need to understand just how harmful alcohol is.

I do understand the reason for drug testing and, actually think that they need to do this for the safety of their passengers. However, due to the fact that mj is not as bad as alcohol they do have a double standard. Also, and I hate to mention this, it is VERY easy to thwart many of the tests for THC making these tests inaccurate at the best.

Just my 2 cents.
I agree 100% Just because one is legal and one is not does not make the legal one better then the none legal one.I personally dont want anyone running the ship my family is on to be high or drunk .I also dont want the guy driving down the freeway high or drunk.In fact I will probaly get bashed over this but its the way I feel I think mj should be legalized. I think its a huge waste of money to throw someone in jail for carrying or useing mj.In fact its a waste of time to put anyone in jail for useing drugs . how is that going to help anything?Get them some drug rehab help. I know I am wondering off the subject sorry.Just let me end this rant by saying I dont do drugs and that includes alcohol which buy the way is a drug.And at my workplace they do random drug testing all the time.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Marsdude View Post
I was trying NOT to get pulled into this discussion.

I am a legal (in my State) medical marijuana patient. I also love micro brewed beer so I am well aware of the effects of both.

I would MUCH rather have a captain or a crew member who had smoked MJ the night before that one who drank the night before. One would be fine the other nursing a hangover.

Of course NO ONE wants anyone in a position of responsibility to be high or drunk. I am just saying we really need to start treating marijuana realistically now that it has been studied and shown to be beneficial with little or no side effects AND we need to understand just how harmful alcohol is.

I do understand the reason for drug testing and, actually think that they need to do this for the safety of their passengers. However, due to the fact that mj is not as bad as alcohol they do have a double standard. Also, and I hate to mention this, it is VERY easy to thwart many of the tests for THC making these tests inaccurate at the best.

Just my 2 cents.
Smoking marijuana is not as bad for you as alcohol, really ? do you know all the physcological effects marijuana has?...do you have any scientific proof to back your claim ? I dont think you do. No matter how you slice it...its a mind altering drug and I would hope a crew member was'nt drinking nor smoking marijuana the night before.

Marijuana studies have been done time and time again...and many side effects have been noted...One being short term memory loss...laziness...hygene decreases in many cases, and the list goes on and on, but im sure your not effected by any of the proven side effects.

I do understand you legally take it, but I would hope you or anyone else who is a "user" legally or not is'nt a crew member on the ship I am sailing on. Forgive me for wanting a drug free crew.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 01:24 PM
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I guess because alcohol is legal that makes it alright.I guess thats why they have AA.I wonder how many lives alcohol has ruined.How many people have died on are highways because of alcohol.I think the effects of alcohol on your body are a lot worse then smoking a little weed.I have never heard of someone being born addicted to MJ Or having their liver ruined by MJ.Oh thats right the good ole boys like there drinks once in a while so its fine.Alcohol was illegal in this country at one time also and I am sure there are a lot of people whose life it has ruined who wish they have never seen alcohol.Me I live my life without any alcohol or illegal drugs.I just see a double standard when it come to Mj and alcohol.Whe could even throw cigaretes into the discussion theres another legal drug that does people alot of good'
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Old March 18th, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Smoking marijuana is not as bad for you as alcohol, really ? do you know all the physcological effects marijuana has?...do you have any scientific proof to back your claim ? I dont think you do. No matter how you slice it...its a mind altering drug and I would hope a crew member was'nt drinking nor smoking marijuana the night before.

Marijuana studies have been done time and time again...and many side effects have been noted...One being short term memory loss...laziness...hygene decreases in many cases, and the list goes on and on, but im sure your not effected by any of the proven side effects.

I do understand you legally take it, but I would hope you or anyone else who is a "user" legally or not is'nt a crew member on the ship I am sailing on. Forgive me for wanting a drug free crew.
Would it be fine with you if the crew member had been out drinking the night before? Or the captain had a few drinks a week before the cruise?Would it bother you more if he had smoked a joint a week before.My point is the Mj will show up on a drug test but the alcohol wont.To me that is a double standard.Why is it ok to drink alcohol like a glass of wine with dinner a day before the cruise but you cant smoke a joint 2 weeks before the cruise? Oh thats right because the good ole boys made it legal.To me I dont want the crew on my ship smoking mj or drinking alchol!
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by buttons16 View Post
Smoking marijuana is not as bad for you as alcohol, really ? do you know all the physcological effects marijuana has?...do you have any scientific proof to back your claim ? I dont think you do. No matter how you slice it...its a mind altering drug and I would hope a crew member was'nt drinking nor smoking marijuana the night before.

Marijuana studies have been done time and time again...and many side effects have been noted...One being short term memory loss...laziness...hygene decreases in many cases, and the list goes on and on, but im sure your not effected by any of the proven side effects.

I do understand you legally take it, but I would hope you or anyone else who is a "user" legally or not is'nt a crew member on the ship I am sailing on. Forgive me for wanting a drug free crew.
I understand you believing what you believe, after all that is what has been preached about MJ for years, however, I do have the facts.

Here is a link to a blog about 10 studies that have been done with the resource info. Admittedly this is on a pro cannabis site so they are only going to list the good ones.

Top 10 Marijuana Studies The Government Wished It Had Never Funded | The Weed Blog

Here is a link to a site with studies both pro and con:

101 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Marijuana - Medical Marijuana - ProCon.org

If you take time to read through these studies you will find that even the studies that list some type of con are negated by other studies that have been done over a larger time or with a larger sample group.

I HAVE DONE a lot of research on MJ. It is of HUGE medical benefit to a large number of people and there is some evidence that hash oil can be used in cancer treatment.

WHY has this drug been so bashed over the years? First it has been largely misunderstood. Second, the drug companies do not want it legal. Too easy to grow - no money to be made. Now that their is a huge MJ movement the drug companies have made a cannabis based drug called "Sativaex." (may not be right spelling) Why should I pay them their high prices when I can grow this myself.

I could go on and on, but I would ask everyone to research before you judge. MJ is one of the LEAST harmful drugs out there and highly beneficial.

Perhaps this is what lead PAT ROBINSON to recently call for it's legalization.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 07:08 PM
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What if that same waiter had been up most of the night drinking? Would that bother you as much as if he had smoked a joint a few days ago?Or if your airplane piolt was off with the stewardist parting it up the night before drinking?I agree I would rather not have my pilot or someone who is in charge in a critical situation stoned on drugs.But I really dont think that smoking a joint on your own time the night before work is going to affect your ability to do your job .So there we have a double standard,Drug test will show if you smoked a joint three weeks ago but not if you drank alchohol.Which the drug test is actually just showing a pattern in ones behavor.But wont show any pattern for alchohol.But I guess alchohol is legal so what are you going to do?
So you assume we have a double standard.
Why would you assume we do not have similar rules and tests for alcohol ?
Cruise lines and airlines test randomly for drugs a few times every MONTH.
We randomly test for alcohol a few times every WEEK.
We also run a mandatory drug and alcohol test on every crew member who has any sort of accident or altercation of any kind. If you have an argument with a crew member about someone taking your lounge chair by the pool, and management finds out, the crewmember gets tested immediately.

The International Maritime Organization (IMO) and every major cruise line all have the same rules:

Any crew member testing over 0.08% blood alcohol (approximately equivalent to two beers) when OFF duty must be terminated.
Any crew member testing over 0.04% blood alcohol (approximately one beer) when ON duty must be terminated.
Any watch keeper (Bridge and Engine Room) testing over 0.00% alcohol while ON duty must be terminated.

We all know that nearly ANY drug can impair judgement, performance, and comprehension. EVERY Crewmember has emergency safety duties when something goes wrong. Why would anyone intentionally allow the person responsible for saving your life to impair his responsibility ??
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Old March 18th, 2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
We all know that nearly ANY drug can impair judgement, performance, and comprehension. EVERY Crewmember has emergency safety duties when something goes wrong. Why would anyone intentionally allow the person responsible for saving your life to impair his responsibility ??
I actually agree with this whole heatedly. Why would I want it to be otherwise? It is also comforting to know that they test so thoroughly.

Although I could have SWORN that one of my crap dealers on my last cruise had a hangover one evening....
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
So you assume we have a double standard.
Why would you assume we do not have similar rules and tests for alcohol ?
Cruise lines and airlines test randomly for drugs a few times every MONTH.
We randomly test for alcohol a few times every WEEK.
We also run a mandatory drug and alcohol test on every crew member who has any sort of accident or altercation of any kind. If you have an argument with a crew member about someone taking your lounge chair by the pool, and management finds out, the crewmember gets tested immediately.

The International Maritime Organization (IMO) and every major cruise line all have the same rules:

Any crew member testing over 0.08% blood alcohol (approximately equivalent to two beers) when OFF duty must be terminated.
Any crew member testing over 0.04% blood alcohol (approximately one beer) when ON duty must be terminated.
Any watch keeper (Bridge and Engine Room) testing over 0.00% alcohol while ON duty must be terminated.

We all know that nearly ANY drug can impair judgement, performance, and comprehension. EVERY Crewmember has emergency safety duties when something goes wrong. Why would anyone intentionally allow the person responsible for saving your life to impair his responsibility ??
Your missing my point.Where I feel the double standard comes in is if you smoke a joint 3 weeks before you go to work it will show on your drug test but you can go out and drink it up 2 days before you go to work and thats fine.I am not talking about drinking or doing drugs while on the job.I am talking about in your own free time.I dont see much of a diffrence between smoking a joint and drinking alcohol on your own personal time.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:19 AM
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Your missing my point.Where I feel the double standard comes in is if you smoke a joint 3 weeks before you go to work it will show on your drug test but you can go out and drink it up 2 days before you go to work and thats fine.I am not talking about drinking or doing drugs while on the job.I am talking about in your own free time.I dont see much of a diffrence between smoking a joint and drinking alcohol on your own personal time.
And you have missed my point as well.
We do not have the luxury of deciding what is socially acceptable or morally OK.
We only care about your safety and our legal liability.

Alcohol intoxication is frequently fairly obvious and relatively short term.
After effects are also relatively short term.
But MOST IMPORTANTLY, degree of alcohol intoxication is easily measured by simple testing. we can set acceptable limits on alcohol effects and draw a line on a level of impairment we can consider acceptable.

Drug use and intoxication is nearly impossible to measure. Has a crewmember smoked a joint last evening (and is a little sluggish today), or has he been smoking hash oil for the past 5 days and can no longer remember his own name or his safety duties?
A drug test gives the same results in both cases.
Should we risk your safety (along with thousands of others) and the safety of the ship, based on this problem?

Or should we err on the side of safety and prohibit uncontrolled drug use until it can be controlled?

I live in Shanghai part of the year. The market on the corner near my house sells an opium syrup to treat cold and flu symptoms. It costs $1 a bottle. After three teaspoons of this stuff, my feet no longer touch the floor for 12 hours and I have trouble deciding if I am dreaming or awake.
If I use this stuff and have a drug test, I get the same result as if I had eaten a poppy seed roll for breakfast this week.
As a hotel manager on a ship, my emergency duty is quickly coordinating movement of all passengers and crew from interior spaces to the boat decks.

If I am in an opium-induced fantasy (from my legal cold medicine) while you are trapped in your cabin on a sinking ship, how do you feel about that?

Last edited by Bruce Chafkin1; March 19th, 2012 at 08:33 AM.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
Drug use and intoxication is nearly impossible to measure. Has a crewmember smoked a joint last evening (and is a little sluggish today), or has he been smoking hash oil for the past 5 days and can no longer remember his own name or his safety duties?
A drug test gives the same results in both cases.
Should we risk your safety (along with thousands of others) and the safety of the ship, based on this problem?
Of course the answer is no. The safety of the ship, passengers, and crew would have to be the primary objective.

I do want to clear up some misconceptions here. First, it is not impossible to measure how much THC, the active compound that makes people "high," is in a persons system. In our state where medical MJ is legal we are debating at what level is it unsafe to drive, etc. This can be done to a person in much the same way the alcohol level is measured in the blood.

Secondly, you mention a person smoking hash oil for 5 days and no longer remembering his name or safety duties. It is this type of stereotype that medical MJ people are trying to fight. First let me state that, of course, I would not want someone that had been on a binge smoke hash oil for a week in a position of responsibility the next morning. However, here is the big difference between alcohol and MJ. If I were to smoke hash oil for a week. Stop. Get a good nights sleep. The next day I would certainly remember who I was and what my duties were. I wouldn't be 100% but I would be maybe 85% of my normal self. If I had come off of a week drunk - NO WAY could I function.

Now, I am not saying this to justify someone trying to circumvent the system and use pot while working on a ship. That is wrong and irresponsible. What I am trying to say is this double standard we have for alcohol and pot needs to stop. Making alcohol a socially accepted drug and MJ not is illogical and actually has been harmful to society. Instead of spending so much time and effort to eradicate MJ, it really needs to be legalized and regulated like alcohol.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 07:19 PM
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Bruce how can you say there is no double standard? You stated that if a crewmember tests over 0.08 for alcohol while off duty they will be terminated and if the same crewman testing over 0.04 when on duty they will be terminated.Yet the same crewman tests with a small amount of THC in his system which he might of smoked 2 weeks before reporting to work is terminated Sounds like a double standard to me.Why is the crewman allowed to test 0.04 or lower while on duty? In my opion there should be zero tolerance for alcohol while on duty just like THC.WHy dont they have zero tolerance for alcohol on the ship doesnt make much sence to me.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 09:38 PM
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Bruce how can you say there is no double standard? You stated that if a crewmember tests over 0.08 for alcohol while off duty they will be terminated and if the same crewman testing over 0.04 when on duty they will be terminated.Yet the same crewman tests with a small amount of THC in his system which he might of smoked 2 weeks before reporting to work is terminated Sounds like a double standard to me.Why is the crewman allowed to test 0.04 or lower while on duty? In my opion there should be zero tolerance for alcohol while on duty just like THC.WHy dont they have zero tolerance for alcohol on the ship doesnt make much sence to me.
I have already explained this. The cruise lines have no access to a legally accepted drug test that will tell us the degree of drug intoxication in a crewmember. The approved test only tells us; "Yes", or "No".
For alcohol, the international organizations and governments that regulate the cruise industry have determined what the "safe" limits of alcohol impairment are. They have based these limits on the same numbers used by most countries for safe limits for driving a car. Are these numbers realistic?
I have no idea. I'm not an expert on this.

If and when we do get an approved drug test that gives us the degree of intoxication:

1. Somebody needs to establish widely accepted safe levels of drug intoxication.

2. We have to convince the United Nations to instruct the IMO to change international regulations on drug use by crewmembers.

3. Then we have to convince the flag state regulators for each country that sponsors the flags on the stern of each ship (about 30 different countries)to change their regulations.

4. Then we have to convince Lloyds and the other ship insurers to change their regulations.

5. Then we have to convince the unions in all the different countries we hire from (about 70 different countries) to change the terms of the contracts we have negotiated with them.

6. Then we have to convince the governments of all the countries whose ports we visit (over 100 countries) to allow our crew to use, and our ships to carry, illegal drugs into their waters - without the Captain being arrested and the ship impounded.

7. Then we need to convince the International oganizations that inspect ships and issue safe sailing certificates to change their standards.

8. Finally we need to convince the US Coast Guard and USCBP to allow an international ship carrying illegal drugs and crewmembers using those drugs to sail into US waters, without the Captain being arrested or the ship impounded.

If we managed to find all the time and money required to accomplish all these things, what would we hope to gain?
Happier crew, improved service levels, happier passengers, safer ships, fewer accidents?
No.

If you want to see an indication of which direction sentiments are going these days:

Star Cruises and NCL International will not allow their senior officers to consume a drop of alcohol at any time during their 4 month contracts onboard ships. They are randomly tested every week. Any score over 0.00% requires instant termination.

New UK regulations require any British flag ship sailing in UK waters to prohibit cigarette smoking in any working area of the ship. The penalty is instant termination of the offender.

There are several cruise lines that did manage towork around the rules on drug use onboard ships. These lines were based solely in Hawaii and not subject to international standards. US Standards were not seriously enforced in order to try to keep them in business.
American Hawaii (now bankrupt), Aloha Pacific (now bankrupt), and NCL America (soon to be bankrupt).
Illegal Drug use was - and is - rampant on those ships. The number of crew required to service the passengers was 50% higher than on other cruise lines. Crew turnover was 100% every 3 months on all three lines - the highest in the history of the cruise industry.

I worked for all three lines.

Every day I had adult crewmembers crying and sobbing in my office because they had to work too hard.
Every day a large group of the crew came to my office to demand easier work or they would quit.
Any day I had fewer than 50% of the crew late for work, it was a good day.
On any given day, 25% of the crew called in sick and stayed in their cabins.
We rarely passed mandatory US Public Health or US Coast Guard inspections. Many crew wouldn't even show up for them. The US Officials "looked the other way".

Today on an NCL America ship, you can ask any crewmember for anything, and receieve the same answer, "Why do you want me to do that?"

The international cruise lines are not going there.....................

Last edited by Bruce Chafkin1; March 19th, 2012 at 09:57 PM.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
I have already explained this. The cruise lines have no access to a legally accepted drug test that will tell us the degree of drug intoxication in a crewmember. The approved test only tells us; "Yes", or "No".
For alcohol, the international organizations and governments that regulate the cruise industry have determined what the "safe" limits of alcohol impairment are. They have based these limits on the same numbers used by most countries for safe limits for driving a car. Are these numbers realistic?
I have no idea. I'm not an expert on this.

If and when we do get an approved drug test that gives us the degree of intoxication:

1. Somebody needs to establish widely accepted safe levels of drug intoxication.

2. We have to convince the United Nations to instruct the IMO to change international regulations on drug use by crewmembers.

3. Then we have to convince the flag state regulators for each country that sponsors the flags on the stern of each ship (about 30 different countries)to change their regulations.

4. Then we have to convince Lloyds and the other ship insurers to change their regulations.

5. Then we have to convince the unions in all the different countries we hire from (about 70 different countries) to change the terms of the contracts we have negotiated with them.

6. Then we have to convince the governments of all the countries whose ports we visit (over 100 countries) to allow our crew to use, and our ships to carry, illegal drugs into their waters - without the Captain being arrested and the ship impounded.

7. Then we need to convince the International oganizations that inspect ships and issue safe sailing certificates to change their standards.

8. Finally we need to convince the US Coast Guard and USCBP to allow an international ship carrying illegal drugs and crewmembers using those drugs to sail into US waters, without the Captain being arrested or the ship impounded.

If we managed to find all the time and money required to accomplish all these things, what would we hope to gain?
Happier crew, improved service levels, happier passengers, safer ships, fewer accidents?
No.

If you want to see an indication of which direction sentiments are going these days:

Star Cruises and NCL International will not allow their senior officers to consume a drop of alcohol at any time during their 4 month contracts onboard ships. They are randomly tested every week. Any score over 0.00% requires instant termination.

New UK regulations require any British flag ship sailing in UK waters to prohibit cigarette smoking in any working area of the ship. The penalty is instant termination of the offender.

There are several cruise lines that did manage towork around the rules on drug use onboard ships. These lines were based solely in Hawaii and not subject to international standards. US Standards were not seriously enforced in order to try to keep them in business.
American Hawaii (now bankrupt), Aloha Pacific (now bankrupt), and NCL America (soon to be bankrupt).
Illegal Drug use was - and is - rampant on those ships. The number of crew required to service the passengers was 50% higher than on other cruise lines. Crew turnover was 100% every 3 months on all three lines - the highest in the history of the cruise industry.

I worked for all three lines.

Every day I had adult crewmembers crying and sobbing in my office because they had to work too hard.
Every day a large group of the crew came to my office to demand easier work or they would quit.
Any day I had fewer than 50% of the crew late for work, it was a good day.
On any given day, 25% of the crew called in sick and stayed in their cabins.
We rarely passed mandatory US Public Health or US Coast Guard inspections. Many crew wouldn't even show up for them. The US Officials "looked the other way".

Today on an NCL America ship, you can ask any crewmember for anything, and receieve the same answer, "Why do you want me to do that?"

The international cruise lines are not going there.....................
Bruce I also already explained this to you once.? That fact remains you stated a crewman could test under 0.04 for alconol while on duty and not be terminated.While any trace of THC and he would be fired. To me thats a double standard. Thats what we were talking about. And as far as in your other post about someone smoking hash for 5 days and not remembering their name, How about the person who goes out drinking for one night cant remember anything, throws up all over the place and gets in fights and the wakes up the next morning sick as a dog and can bearley get out of bed?.Their is no way you wiil ever convince me that MJ is any where as bad for you as alcohol. And by the way I realize you work on a cruise ship. I get it all ready you dont have to put it in every post. And where are your facts or studies that show that drug use had anything to do with people in your office whinning had anything to do with drug use.Let alone MJ.And I never stated that I wanted anyone to be able to consume any kind of drug while on the job! What I am saying is there should be zero tolerance for alcohol just like THC but theres not and thats a double standard.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 03:18 AM
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Dhill,

The world - and the cruise industry - is filled with inequalities and double standards.
Most of them are far beyond any influence you and I might be able to exert. But I applaud you for trying.

Double standards?
An Indonesian has to get a special visa to work aboard a foreign ship that enters US waters, even though he never sets foot ashore, nor works for a US Company on US soil.

There is no legal minimum age for alcohol consumption in international waters, but all the major cruise lines enforce the American rules - regardless of where the ship is sailing.

There is no legal minimum age for casino gambling on the high seas, but most of the major cruise lines enforce the American rules - regardless of where the ship is sailing.

There is no legal minimum age for children to enroll in the childrens programs on international ships, but the insurance companies - in league with our corporate legal departments - have determined that any child under age 3 will not be admitted.

There is no legal minimum age for someone to be employed on an international cruise ship. The unions and corporate legal departments will not allow us to hire anyone under the age of 21.

There is no international standard, law, or regulation on pregnant women sailing on cruise ships. All the major cruise lines will not allow a woman - even one day into her second trimester - to sail on our ships.

If a German National boards an international cruise ship in a US Port, and wins more that US$1200 in the casino when the ship is thousands of miles from the USA, he is legally forced to pay US Income taxes on those winnings - even though he is not a US Citizen and does not live in the USA.

If the international cruise line I work for has even one ship calling at US Ports, and another of our ships - that never calls at a US Port - tries to sell Cuban cigars onboard to non-US Citizens - in international waters - the US Government will levy a US$ 1 Million fine against my employer.

If the international cruise line I work for has even one ship calling at US Ports, and another of our ships - that never calls at a US Port - tries to serve fresh oysters onboard to non-US Citizens - in international waters - the US Public Health Service can prohibit that ship from ever sailing in US waters.

As a US Citizen living outside the USA, I am sometimes required to join international cruise ships in US Ports. When I join those ships, I must apply for a US visa that is normally required only for non-US Citizens. I am legally required to carry that visa with me whenever I go ashore in the country where I was born and raised. When I depart the ship in a US Port, I am legally required to surrender that visa and leave the USA (instead of visiting my family) within 24 hours of getting off the ship.

The Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (sometimes erroneously called the Jones Act) requires all passengers on an international cruise ship travelling between 2 American ports to stop at a foreign port. If you are travelling on my ship and happen to die before you visit the required foreign port, your estate is legally required to pay a $300 fine to the US Government. This applies regardless of which passport you carry.

International flagged cruise ships calling at US Ports must be inspected twice yearly by the US Public Health Service to ensure that the ships meet the incredibly high cleanliness standards established by the USPH. American flagged ships are not required to have these inspections. When they tried this in the past, the American ships always failed the inspections. Rather than force the American operators to increase cleanliness, the US Government lowered the standards for them. They are now inspected by the USDA, who normally inspect airliners and greyhound buses - and know nothing about cruise ship cleanliness.

The state of Alaska has new regulations on the maximum allowed levels of minerals and metal ions allowed in waste water discharged by the ships in Alaska waters.
But the fresh water we purchase from the Alaska ports already has higher levels of metal ions and minerals than we are allowed to discharge. If we pour fresh water from Alaska into the sea, the ship's captain will be arrested.

The State of California recently mandated that any ship sailing off the California Coast must burn very expensive low sulphur jet fuel to reduce emissions. To avoid this potentially bankrupting fuel cost, shipping lines opted to stay outside the legal 12 mile limit off the coast of California. California retaliated by extending their legal waters to 24 miles. This violates nearly every international treaty in existence. Even the US Government announced that California's actions were illegal.
The cruise lines reacted by opting to stay 25 miles off the coast of California.
California extended their "legal waters" to 45 miles. Another international legal violation by a US State.
The cruise kines have no choice but to boycott California, which is what we are doing.
But that is still not going to change anything - except all those many millions of dollars we used to spend in California are now going to other countries.

Most of these things will never change, regardless of what you or I think, want, or do.

Last edited by Bruce Chafkin1; March 21st, 2012 at 03:48 AM.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
Most of these things will never change, regardless of what you or I think, want, or do.
I totally disagree with this. The ONLY way things change is when the are brought to light and people work to have them changed. I have participated in many protests, been politically active, and certainly vote. It is every individuals duty to point out injustice and to act bring about change.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 06:48 PM
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Bruce thats all very nice. But it seems it would be pretty easy for the cruise lines to implement a 0 tolerance on alcohol.They have already did it for T.h.C. And I agree with Marsdude 100%
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 04:36 AM
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Bruce thats all very nice. But it seems it would be pretty easy for the cruise lines to implement a 0 tolerance on alcohol.They have already did it for T.h.C. And I agree with Marsdude 100%
Dhill,
I completely agree with you. Ideally we would have a zero tolerance policy for any substances that impair the safety performance duties of any crewmember on all ships, buses, trains, taxis, or airplanes at any time.

But then we should also have the same zero tolerance policy for anyone operating or working on ANY vehicle ANYWHERE, at ANY time.

We need to keep a bit of perspective here.

In the past 60 years, a few hundred people have been killed in cruise line accidents, and a few thousand killed in airline accidents. In the very same period, drunk and stoned drivers in cars have killed millions of people worldwide.

Do you see the zero tolerance policy for automobile drivers happening anytime soon?

Three cruise lines tested the zero tolerance policy on their ships:

At Star Cruises they instituted it, and ended up firing most of their senior officers. They were able to replace them, and they still have the policy today (for senior officers only). They determined that forcing the policy on all employees would put them out of business.

At NCL they instituted it for senior officers, lost all the Norwegians, had to change their name from Norwegian Cruise Line to NCL, and still have the policy - for senior officers only - today. NCL has determined that if they extend the policy to all crew, they will go out of business.

AT RCI, they instituted the policy, lost all their senior officers, reversed the policy, and got most of them back. They are afraid to try this again - with any officers or crew.

The other major cruise lines are afraid to do anything about this issue. They are following the letter of International law, regulations set up by the IMO, Flag States, US Coast Guard, US Navy, legal corporate Vice Presidents, unions, International governments, and Insurance companies.
They are not going any further unless events force the issue.

Even the Costa Concordia "event" did not result in much action.
I wish you the best of luck in pushing it further.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhill View Post
Bruce thats all very nice. But it seems it would be pretty easy for the cruise lines to implement a 0 tolerance on alcohol.They have already did it for T.h.C. And I agree with Marsdude 100%
Dhill,
I completely agree with you. Ideally we would have a zero tolerance policy for any substances that impair the safety performance duties of any crewmember on all ships, buses, trains, taxis, or airplanes at any time.

But then we should also have the same zero tolerance policy for anyone operating or working on ANY vehicle ANYWHERE, at ANY time.

We need to keep a bit of perspective here.

In the past 60 years, a few hundred people have been killed in cruise line accidents, and a few thousand killed in airline accidents. In the very same period, drunk and stoned drivers in cars have killed millions of people worldwide.

Do you see the zero tolerance policy for automobile drivers happening anytime soon?

Three cruise lines tested the zero tolerance policy on their ships:

At Star Cruises they instituted it, and ended up firing most of their senior officers. They were able to replace them, and they still have the policy today (for senior officers only). They determined that forcing the policy on all employees would put them out of business.

At NCL they instituted it for senior officers, lost all the Norwegians, had to change their name from Norwegian Cruise Line to NCL, and still have the policy - for senior officers only - today. NCL has determined that if they extend the policy to all crew, they will go out of business.

AT RCI, they instituted the policy, lost all their senior officers, reversed the policy, and got most of them back. They are afraid to try this again - with any officers or crew.

The other major cruise lines are afraid to do anything about this issue. They are following the letter of International law, regulations set up by the IMO, Flag States, US Coast Guard, US Navy, legal corporate Vice Presidents, unions, International governments, and Insurance companies.
They are not going any further unless events force the issue.

Even the Costa Concordia "event" did not result in much action.
I wish you the best of luck in pushing it further.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 07:21 AM
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Bruce, So what I think you are saying is that the cruise lines put profits and the convience of finding and hiring a crew before the saftey of there passengers! And your post proves my point that there is a double standard when it come to alcohol and T.H.C.Should there be a 0 tolerance in regards to drinking and driving I.M.H.O I think so. But theres not .There is for driving and having T.H .C in your system another double standard.Personally I dont drink or do any drugs and I dont really care what other people do as long as it doesnt affect me or put me or my family or other people in danger! Happy sailings
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Dhll, I'm going to disagree with you but only mildly.

I don't think their should be a zero tolerance policy for alcohol for the crew on board. Why should the crew not be allowed to have a drink when they have some time off? Just so long as they are responsible.

Because I am a Medical MJ patient of course I would like to see MJ legalized and regulated like alcohol. There is really no reason not to do this. MJ has been very misunderstood and is really quite beneficial. One earlier poster claimed that the "side effects" of MJ were "laziness and poor hygiene." That is old school thought about MJ. Since MJ is legal in my State I know many business people and business owners that use it and are very well dressed and successful. I run a Conference Center myself.

I know from reading on other forums that it is incredibly easy to bring MJ (or other drugs) on board a cruise ship. WAY easier than bringing alcohol on board. I would bet my next months paycheck that you have crew that are bringing MJ on board in an edible form and using the various detox products available to pass their test.

History has shown that , first, humans are drug takers. Do you know anyone that doesn't use some type of drug, even if it is just caffeine? BTW caffeine is harmful to your body, cannabis is helpful. Second, outlawing drugs doesn't work. It works to regulate them because it is much easier to control them.

So, I don't think zero tolerance will work. I think we have to allow people to be human but also demand responsibility.
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Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:19 PM
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Marsdude I was only useing the 0 tolerance for alcohol as an example that there is a double standard when it comes To MJ. Personally (Alltho I have no facts to back up my statements just what I have seen and learned over the years)I think alcohol is a lot worse for you then M.J. I really dont understand why there is so much distane about M.J.In my book it should legalized. I mean if you think about it M.J has been proven to be benifical to alot of people medical wise and yet people still dont want to legalize it But then again alcohol was illegal at one time and then leagalized even tho it has no medical benifits so there is still hope.Like I have stated before I dont use M.J or Alcohol those days are long behind me.And I dont really care who drinks what or smokes what as long as it doesnt effect my family or me in a negative way.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 05:01 PM
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THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS...

I never said it was acceptable to drink the night before and be a crew member...I am against any drug in a persons system who can do harm to innocent people. That goes for the use of:
Marijuana
Alcohol
and any other mind altering drug.

If you take it legally because of a medical condition thats fine as long as you dont operate anything that can do harm to others.

I an glad there is serious drug testing for all crew members even if you take MJ legally. I am also in favor of anyone being fired for not passing a drug test.

I am paying for a cruise, I have a right to a drug free crew like it or not thats how it is.
No matter how much you scream and carry on and hold your breath, the cruise industry is correct in axing anyone failing a drug test.

My advise...If you really want to work on a cruise ship then I suggest you stop taking MJ...I understand you take it for medical reasons. If you can't stop taking it then you might have to think about some other position that won't put anyone innocent in harms way.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 12:39 PM
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The term "getting high" means alternating your mind.

I do not want someone high on the crew who will be responsible for saving my life if the ship is in trouble.

This is why cruise lines fire crew members who has .04 alcohol level.
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