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  #31 (permalink)  
Old February 26th, 2006, 03:06 PM
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I guess it depends on where you cruise, but we personally would NEVER wear anything to affiliate us with the military on foreign soil. Even so, we are not allowed to wear the uniform off-base even if driving straight home!

Don't get me wrong, we are very proud to serve our country. It's just that for OPSEC reasons and to avoid those that are Bush-bashers. It seems the first thing someone says after knowing you are military is related to Bush, the war(s), or anything else controversial. While we do get a lot of "thanks" and praise for being military as a couple, it's nice to be on vacation and not worry about somebody else's dislikes of our great country.

Just my two cents
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Old February 28th, 2006, 08:26 PM
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Sandy,

It's interesting...there wasn't a single "no, don't wear it" in this thread.

I was just noticing the same thing. How wonderful!

Would a man wear his uniform to all of the formal nights for a cruise? Is it ok for a woman to wear the same outfit a couple of times?

Seems like so many different things to pack!


One fairly common approach is to pack one dress and two or three different sets of accessories that will give it a different look. We guys actually do the same thing, with a different ties and cummerbunds or vests and different sets of studs and cuff links to wear with our dinner jackets or tuxedos.

Norm.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2006, 08:33 PM
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cindyandmatt,

I guess it depends on where you cruise, but we personally would NEVER wear anything to affiliate us with the military on foreign soil. Even so, we are not allowed to wear the uniform off-base even if driving straight home!

The security issues that exist in many foreign cuontries simply do not exist on cruise ships. By all means, go ahead and wear the "mess dress" uniform!

Those of us who work in sensitive positons obviously need to be careful what we say about our work. When people ask what I research after learning that I do research and development, I sometimes reply, "Absolutely nothing that we can duscuss in public!" It gets a good laugh and usually brings an end to the line of questioning. Another good reply is that "I work with various advanced sensors, like 'eye in the sky' satellites and such. I'd like to say that it's not rocket science, but it really is!" At that, most folks condlude that it's probably over their heads -- which it also realy is....

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Old March 1st, 2006, 09:25 AM
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On my cruise, I saw a man in his dress blues and I couldn't help but smile. It's the perfect formal wear.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old March 1st, 2006, 11:11 AM
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cindyandmatt - that is a very interesting point that you bring up, especially about not even being allowed to wear your uniform off base. Does that mean you cannot wear your uniform on "leave" even if you are on active duty??
It would be very interested to know the official policy of the military in regards to dress uniforms for formal occasions. Can men still get married in their dress uniforms???
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Old March 1st, 2006, 05:33 PM
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Wearing your uniform anywhere other than a military installation is being a target for terrorism. If anyone wants the specific regs they need to consult AR 670-1 and current force condition regs. As I said before, being stationed overseas we are not supposed to wear the uniform even in our cars going to base. Maybe it would be ok if it were an American Cruise, but traveling overseas has a complete different set of rules to go by.

Due to force protection considerations overseas, a service member shouldn’t wear the uniform while traveling commercial to, from, or within overseas locations. Military personnel must consult the Department of Defense Foreign Clearance Guide for uniform wear travel restrictions when traveling overseas.
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Old March 1st, 2006, 06:53 PM
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cindyandmatt,

Wearing your uniform anywhere other than a military installation is being a target for terrorism. If anyone wants the specific regs they need to consult AR 670-1 and current force condition regs. As I said before, being stationed overseas we are not supposed to wear the uniform even in our cars going to base. Maybe it would be ok if it were an American Cruise, but traveling overseas has a complete different set of rules to go by.

Regulations prohibiting wearing of uniforms ashore on foreign soil are intended to diminish the threat of personal attack by terrorists, street gangs, or organized criminal elements, and thus apply only to areas where such threasts are known or suspected to exist (which may encompas most foreign soil right now). In any case, such threats do not exist aboard any of the ships of any of the major cruise lines marketd in North America so the restrictions don't apply in that situation. OTOH, it would not be advisable to wear your uniform when going ashore in foreign ports.

If you have doubts, though, you certanly can ask your commanding officer to confirm this with higher authority. Be clear, in your inquiry, that you will wear the uniform only aboard the vessel during the cruise.

Norm.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 12:21 PM
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I am retired Air Force and would not hesitate to wear my mess dress (which is the AF version of a Tux) on any cruise. First however I have about 20 pounds to go before I fit into it It will happen someday!
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2006, 02:12 PM
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Rev,

It is clearly stated as I posted in my last post:

"a service member shouldn’t wear the uniform while traveling commercial to, from, or within overseas locations"
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Old March 3rd, 2006, 06:31 PM
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cindyandmatt,

It is clearly stated as I posted in my last post:

I understood your previous post perfectly well.

I also understand both the guidance that you quoted and the reason for that guidance very well. The guidance is addressing uncontrolled or minimally controlled foreign areas where terrorists may strike American military and naval personnel simply because they are in uniform. The prupose of not wearing one's uniform in such situations is to avoid provocation of an attack.

Cruise ships have exceptional security. The cruise lines now require submission of immigration information in advance so they can submit it to government authorities for screening, and anybody who fails the screening receives a full refund for the cancellation of the affectedbooking. There's also very tight security on the piers and in the harbors where each cruise ship calls and phenomenal security -- including a team that's trained and equipped to deal with any attempted infiltration by a team of terrorists -- aboard each cruise ship itself. It would be exceptionally difficult for terrorists to penetrate that security. As a result, a cruise ship at sea is one of the safest environments in the world. If you can't wear a military uniform aboard a cruise ship, you better not wear it off base at all. It's also important to remember that formal evenings take place when ships are well out to sea, so there's no danger of being observed in uniform from land.

If the question had been about wearing one's uniform to or from the cruise ship, or about wearing one's uniform ashore during a port of call, I would counsel against doing so -- and most especially so in a foreign port. These are the very situations to which your guidance about not wearing the uniform in foreign places absolutely does apply.

Norm.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old March 9th, 2006, 09:14 AM
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I just have a few comments on this "Terrorism" matter. I am Retired Air Force and worked in a Special Operations unit, my thing is this: Any major Terrorism act is planned well in advance. The World Trade Center was not just done on a whim, there was intense planning on the parts of the criminals responsible, and as you can see, they are being brought to justice for thier acts. As for the wearing of the Uniform "Off Base" I too was stationed overseas for a number of years and yes there are times when the wear of the uniform is inappropriate, however, if someone wants to wear the uniform on a Cruise ship, by all means, WEAR it. A terrorist cell is not going to take down a cruise ship just becuase they see someone wearing a military uniform, there is usually a political agenda as to why a terrorist act is committed. When the TWA airplane was hijacked ( if anyone can remember ) and they murdererd the person who was in the Navy, they didn't murder him because he was in uniform, he was in Civilian clothing, the terrorists never knew he was in the Navy until "He" showed the terrorists his Military I.D. I'm just tired of people saying "Don't do that because it might draw terrorists", just use a little common sense and be aware of your surroundings. I am honored to wear the uniform, I too am going on a cruise with my wife, however she wants me to be in a Tuxedo versus my Mess Dress. Guess she has seen enough of me in that.

Just a thought,

Goose
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old March 9th, 2006, 05:51 PM
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Goose,

I just have a few comments on this "Terrorism" matter. I am Retired Air Force and worked in a Special Operations unit, my thing is this: Any major Terrorism act is planned well in advance. The World Trade Center was not just done on a whim, there was intense planning on the parts of the criminals responsible, and as you can see, they are being brought to justice for thier acts. As for the wearing of the Uniform "Off Base" I too was stationed overseas for a number of years and yes there are times when the wear of the uniform is inappropriate, however, if someone wants to wear the uniform on a Cruise ship, by all means, WEAR it. A terrorist cell is not going to take down a cruise ship just becuase they see someone wearing a military uniform, there is usually a political agenda as to why a terrorist act is committed. When the TWA airplane was hijacked ( if anyone can remember ) and they murdererd the person who was in the Navy, they didn't murder him because he was in uniform, he was in Civilian clothing, the terrorists never knew he was in the Navy until "He" showed the terrorists his Military I.D. I'm just tired of people saying "Don't do that because it might draw terrorists", just use a little common sense and be aware of your surroundings. I am honored to wear the uniform, I too am going on a cruise with my wife, however she wants me to be in a Tuxedo versus my Mess Dress. Guess she has seen enough of me in that.

I concur completely.

By way of clarification, I'm not persuaded that it would be appropriate for retired military and naval personnel to wear the uniform for formal night during a cruise. Retired personnel still hold their rank and may wear the uniform when attending or participating in official functions, on certain holidays, etc., but formal night on a cruise ship does not seem to fall within those categories. Thus, I concur completely with your wife.

Norm.
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Old March 11th, 2006, 03:07 PM
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As a Retired US Army MSG, I wear my Mess Dress Uniforms on cruises on formal nights. I have both the "Blue" and "White" US Army mess dress uniforms. I decide which one to take and wear, based on the weather and time of year.

On my first cruises, I rented a tux and wore my decorations, etc on it. I also observed others on these trips wearing there mess dress, as service retirees.

I decided that I would start doing so as well. The rented Tux was costing me around $100. per cruise. I already had the mess dress uniforms. Even if I had to buy a Mess dress uniform, it would pay for it self in a short while at that rate. (We cruise at least twice a year.)

I am proud of my service (30+ Years in both the Regular Army, Air Force Reserve and Army reserve. As you can no doubt tell from my avatar and screen name, I served in the US Army's Special Forces (SOCOM) for over 10 years of this time.

I do not fear terrorist activities on board ship, nor am I shy about wearing the military uniform on board the ship on formal nights.

I do not wear my uniform off the ship nor in some places (Outside the US.) or call any attention to myself as an Ameican, or former member of the American Armed forces.

In reviewing the AR's on the wear of uniforms for retirees, I found that there was enough room in them to allow for wear of the Mess dress on such activities such as the formal night, especially since the crew does wear military uniforms to the formal.

In 06 May, I'll be boarding the Coral Princess for a trip through the Panama Canal. I'll be wearing my White mess dress on those three formal nights.

BTW: Those that do wear their Mess Dress, especially those that served in SOCOM units, should put their "Challenge" coin in their pocket or be ready to buy the drinks!!
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Old March 11th, 2006, 07:52 PM
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Hi GBeret,

First, I'd like to thank you for your service to our country.

IMO, it's perfectly fine for retired military to wear their Mess Dress Uniform on formal nights.

Anyone in uniform (or out, if I know they're serving or retired) gets a handshake and a thank you from me!

(Daughter of a S/Sgt. Army Interpreter in WWII.)
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old March 11th, 2006, 10:24 PM
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GBeret,

In reviewing the AR's on the wear of uniforms for retirees, I found that there was enough room in them to allow for wear of the Mess dress on such activities such as the formal night, especially since the crew does wear military uniforms to the formal.

Thank you for clearing that up. It seemed like one of those things that might have been in the fringes of the policy governing the wear of official uniforms by retirees. Please correct this if I'm wrong, but I believe that the policy also permits retirees to wear either the current uniform or the last uniform of their time of active duty when wearing a uniform.

Norm.
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Old March 11th, 2006, 11:45 PM
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Old March 12th, 2006, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBeret
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
GBeret,

In reviewing the AR's on the wear of uniforms for retirees, I found that there was enough room in them to allow for wear of the Mess dress on such activities such as the formal night, especially since the crew does wear military uniforms to the formal.

Thank you for clearing that up. It seemed like one of those things that might have been in the fringes of the policy governing the wear of official uniforms by retirees. Please correct this if I'm wrong, but I believe that the policy also permits retirees to wear either the current uniform or the last uniform of their time of active duty when wearing a uniform.

Norm.
From the ARs:

Army Regulation 670–1
Uniforms and Insignia
Wear and
Appearance of
Army Uniforms
and Insignia
Headquarters
Department of the Army
Washington, DC
3 February 2005
UNCLASSIFIED

Wear of the uniform by retired personnel
a. Personnel who will be advanced to a higher grade upon retirement have the option of wearing the insignia of that
grade thereafter.

b. Retired personnel on active duty will wear their uniform and insignia in the same manner as prescribed for
personnel in the Active Army of corresponding grade and branch.

c. Retired personnel not on active duty may wear either the uniform reflecting their grade and branch on the date of
their retirement, or the uniform for personnel in the Active Army of corresponding grade and branch, when appropriate,
but may not intermix the two uniforms. Personnel will wear the grade as shown on the retired grade of rank line on the
retirement order.

d. Retired personnel not on active duty are not authorized to wear shoulder sleeve insignia, except as follows:
(1) Personnel performing instructor duties at an educational institution conducting courses of instruction approved
314 AR 670–1 • 3 February 2005
by the Armed Forces will wear the shoulder sleeve insignia of the command that is responsible for the course of
instruction. Senior and junior ROTC instructors will wear the Cadet Command shoulder sleeve insignia on their left
shoulder (see AR 145–1 and 145–2 for wear of the uniform by senior and junior ROTC instructors, respectively).

(2) Retired personnel are authorized to wear the shoulder sleeve insignia for U.S. Army Retirees on the left
shoulder. The insignia consists of a white cloth disc with a blue border, and an inner white disc with a red border,
which bears a blue and white adaptation of the coat of arms of the United States. The outer disk that surrounds the coat
of arms contains the inscription “UNITED STATES ARMY? in red letters at the top, and the word “RETIRED? in
blue letters at the bottom (see fig 30–1).

Wear of the uniform by former members of the Army
a. Unless qualified under another provision of this regulation, or under the provisions of section 772, title 10, United
AR 670–1 • 3 February 2005 315
States Code (10 USC 772), former members of the Army may wear the uniform if they served honorably during a
declared or undeclared war, and if their most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions. Personnel who
qualify under these conditions will wear the Army uniform in the highest grade they held during such war service, in
accordance with 10 USC 772.

b. The uniform is authorized for wear only for the following ceremonial occasions, and when traveling to and from
the ceremony or function. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the BDU and
physical fitness uniforms will not be worn.

(1) When attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony.

(2) When attending parades on national or state holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any
active or reserve United States military unit is taking part. Wear of the Army uniform at any other time, or for any
other purpose than stated above, is prohibited.
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Old March 13th, 2006, 11:09 AM
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By all means wear the mess dress uniform. I have never liked the styling of the Air Force mess dress uniform, but I urge you and your husband to be proud of what it represents. Hey it might look great on him -- I always look like an overdress waiter.
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Old March 13th, 2006, 11:09 AM
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By all means wear the mess dress uniform. I have never liked the styling of the Air Force mess dress uniform, but I urge you and your husband to be proud of what it represents. Hey it might look great on him -- I always look like an overdress waiter.
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Old March 25th, 2006, 08:11 AM
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I think it is honorable to wear the uniform to dinner.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindyandmatt
I guess it depends on where you cruise, but we personally would NEVER wear anything to affiliate us with the military on foreign soil. Even so, we are not allowed to wear the uniform off-base even if driving straight home!

Don't get me wrong, we are very proud to serve our country. It's just that for OPSEC reasons and to avoid those that are Bush-bashers. It seems the first thing someone says after knowing you are military is related to Bush, the war(s), or anything else controversial. While we do get a lot of "thanks" and praise for being military as a couple, it's nice to be on vacation and not worry about somebody else's dislikes of our great country.

Just my two cents
This is good advice for those stationed on foreign soil; however, what we're talking about is wearing the military's mess dress, at formal dinners (Nights) on a cruise ship at sea.

Nobody, would wear a mess dress uniform, while in foreign port. One is only supposed to wear the mess dress after 5PM (Retreat).

Having said the above, I would say that if one was stationed on foreign soil on active duty and you or your unit were invited to a formal military affair, by the host countries military, one would wear the mess dress to that affair, as they will be in their 'Mess Dress' or Dress uniform.

Just my two cents!
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Old June 11th, 2007, 05:21 PM
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So, does all those regs mean an old Vietnam Vet can still wear dress on formal nights ?
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Old June 11th, 2007, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G
So, does all those regs mean an old Vietnam Vet can still wear dress on formal nights ?
......and I would be honored for you to sit at our table......
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Old June 11th, 2007, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inis46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G
So, does all those regs mean an old Vietnam Vet can still wear dress on formal nights ?
......and I would be honored for you to sit at our table......
Thanks, but I don't think it would be legal. Plus, too many VV's have been conditioned to not bring a lot of attention on that fact. Unfortunate as that is.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inis46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G
So, does all those regs mean an old Vietnam Vet can still wear dress on formal nights ?
......and I would be honored for you to sit at our table......
Thanks, but I don't think it would be legal. Plus, too many VV's have been conditioned to not bring a lot of attention on that fact. Unfortunate as that is.
I know, and that is why I said we would be so honored.......I lived the 60's, and know only too well what went on. Thank you for serving.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 08:04 PM
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Bob,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
So, does all those regs mean an old Vietnam Vet can still wear dress on formal nights ?
Only if you still on the military payroll (either active duty or retired).

Norm.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Bob,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
So, does all those regs mean an old Vietnam Vet can still wear dress on formal nights ?
Only if you still on the military payroll (either active duty or retired).

Norm.
Too bad.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Bob,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
So, does all those regs mean an old Vietnam Vet can still wear dress on formal nights ?
Only if you still on the military payroll (either active duty or retired).

Norm.
Too bad.
Actually, you can as a veteran, wear the dress uniform from the era in which you served on occassions like Memorial Day, Veterans Day and/or other public patriotic ceremonies of a military nature, etc.

In your case, as a Vietnam veteran, that would be the Army green dress uniform. You would wear that rank and medals, etc. that you earned while in the Army to your discharge.

The problem with most veterans doing this, is that since they served the uniform, has seemed to 'shrink.' This also occurs with retirees as well.

Of course, many Veterans especially wartime Veterans, never had any reason to purchase a formal Mess Dress uniform, like we are talking about here.

I had many years service before 'required social events,' in the military became common (Dine Ins, Other Formal activities, etc.) this required NCOs and Officers to wear the Mess Dress or Dress Blues on specified occassions.

On ocassions, when I have worn my Blue Mess dress on shipboard, many veterans, and civilians (No surprise there.) especially from the WWII era asked me if I was a Marine, or weren't sure what service I was from. Hardly anyine guessed it was an Army uniform.

On one occassion, when in 'White' Mess Dress, I had a women stop me and started asking me questions, about the ship, thinking I was an Officer crew member. The uniform does look a little alike; however, I have gold Master-Sgt stripes (MSG) and 30 years (Three Years per Stripe.) of hash marks on both sleeves, plus mini-medals and badges on the lapels.

Lately the DOD, VFW American Legion and many other veterans organizations. have asked Veterans to wear their uniforms, (If they fit.) and decorations, etc on such patriotic occassions. Full size medals and/or Mini-medals may also be worn on civilian attire as well. (Most prefer mini-medals.)

Also to use the hand salute instead of uncovering and holding your hand over your heart, when the Colors go by or the National Anthem is played. To distinguish you as a Veteran.

Speaking of that you could also wear, your earned decorations, badges, etc. on your Tux on formal nights. I see many passengers who are veterans doing this and I do it myself, when not using the Mess Dress.

Most people wearing the Tux, use mini-medals and mini badges (CIB , Parachute wings, etc.) They are worn on the Tux's label just like they would be worn on the Mess Dress.

I would encourge you to invest in a nice set of mini-medals and/or badges and wear them on your Tux on formal nights! Be proud of your service in Vietnam! Wear them with pride!

http://www.usmedals.com/moaMountedBr...x?service=army
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Old June 13th, 2007, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: military uniform for formal night?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirena
I think there is nothing more handsome than a man in his Dress Uniform.
I agree!!
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Old June 15th, 2007, 05:59 PM
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GBeret,

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Originally Posted by You
Actually, you can as a veteran, wear the dress uniform from the era in which you served on occassions like Memorial Day, Veterans Day and/or other public patriotic ceremonies of a military nature, etc.
The regulations actually allow veterans to wear either the uniform of the time when they served or the current uniform on such occasions.

Unfortunately, the occasions in question do NOT include purely social events like "formal" evenings on cruise ships....

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Also to use the hand salute instead of uncovering and holding your hand over your heart, when the Colors go by or the National Anthem is played. To distinguish you as a Veteran.
Indeed, it's quite proper for military personnel to render the military hand salute even when in civilian attire, so long as there's no danger that doing so might blow one's cover. And when visiting the battleship Missouri in Pearl Harbor last year, there was something inside me that had to render that hand salute to "Old Glory" on the fantail when crossing the gangway!

Norm.
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