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Old January 16th, 2007, 12:10 AM
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Default Pic of the formal dress I plan to wear... this ok?

As a followup to my post about the cruise wardrobe... here is the dress I purchased... still have receipt so if it's not ok I can return it! Still think this is going to be ok? I hope so, I really like it and actually look decent in it! Thanks again for all of you who helped me out! Can't wait for my cruise!


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Old January 16th, 2007, 12:21 AM
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Oh yes, very nice and elegant.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 12:22 AM
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I love the dress. I think it is very appropriate and I believe that the dress alone is gorgeous and with you it should be stunning! I hope you do wear it and I'm sure you will be breath taking on Formal Night!!!

Congratulations on finding such a great dress!
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Old January 16th, 2007, 01:14 AM
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The dress looks great!
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Old January 16th, 2007, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Pic of the formal dress I plan to wear... this ok?

courtnik82,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
As a followup to my post about the cruise wardrobe... here is the dress I purchased... still have receipt so if it's not ok I can return it! Still think this is going to be ok? I hope so, I really like it and actually look decent in it! Thanks again for all of you who helped me out! Can't wait for my cruise!


Hmmm....

It certainly makes the first cut, but post a photo of you modelling it so we can be sure.

Norm.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 03:57 AM
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Norm, Norm, Norm.......... 8)

CourtNik,

Your dress is very stylish and elegant, and it embodies all of the elegance that the evening deserves. A black evening gown is the most appropriate attire that a lady can don on formal night.

And yet, your dress carries with it certain responsibilities. While in it, you must be very well mannered, and must conduct yourself with grace and elegance.

And -- this is very important -- you must see to it that your male companion is appropriately attired as well.

In my vast experience, it's been my observation that whatever the occassion ladies are usually better dressed that we gents. You must insist that his attire be equal to your own.

For your dress, he should be attired in white-tie, white vest, and tails. Anything less calls for corrective action!

Happy cruising!

Dean
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Old January 16th, 2007, 09:51 AM
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Cournik:

The dress is lovely and it will be quite suitable for formal night. You will probably be one of the best dressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Dean
In my vast experience, it's been my observation that whatever the occassion ladies are usually better dressed that we gents. You must insist that his attire be equal to your own.

For your dress, he should be attired in white-tie, white vest, and tails. Anything less calls for corrective action!
I agree that men are usually more "under dressed" than their mates but your dinner companion will be very overdressed in white tie and tails. A tuxedo will be the best match for cruise ship formal night.

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Mike
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Old January 16th, 2007, 06:47 PM
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Dean,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Your dress is very stylish and elegant, and it embodies all of the elegance that the evening deserves. A black evening gown is the most appropriate attire that a lady can don on formal night.
I agree completely with that part of your assessment. Nonetheless, it's a style that some ladies will make but other ladies will break, in royal fashion in either case, with very little middle ground. That's why it's imperative to see it on the person who is going to wear it before rendering a verdict.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
And yet, your dress carries with it certain responsibilities. While in it, you must be very well mannered, and must conduct yourself with grace and elegance.

And -- this is very important -- you must see to it that your male companion is appropriately attired as well.

In my vast experience, it's been my observation that whatever the occassion ladies are usually better dressed that we gents. You must insist that his attire be equal to your own.
With this part, I agree completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
For your dress, he should be attired in white-tie, white vest, and tails. Anything less calls for corrective action!
No, absolutely not. "White tie and tails" is NOT appropriate attire for a "formal" evening on a cruise ship because the requested dress for gentlemen is modified "black tie" (meaning that a dark business suit is acceptable). But a gentleman in either a tuxedo or a white "dinner jacket" outfit would set off this dress, worn by somebody who makes it, very nicely!

Norm.
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Old January 17th, 2007, 03:42 AM
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Norm and Mike,

I think we all agree on several things. Not the least of which is that our fair young lady will look wonderful in her new evening gown.

It’s on the topic of a gentleman’s evening wear that I’m going to have to disagree with you guys.

And I know what you’re thinking – “he’s out of touch, the old man.? And perhaps you’re right; but I see things the way I see them.

By the sartorial guides that I’ve studied, there are specific classifications of evening wear. The primary classifications are formalwear, and semi-formalwear.

Formalwear is: white-tie, white vest, tails, and top hat. Formalwear is appropriate attire at state functions, black & white balls, the opera or symphony, and formal evenings aboard ocean liners.

Semi-formalwear is: black-tie, no vest, no tails, no top hat. Put simply, a tuxedo. Semi-formalwear is appropriate attire at any event that calls for black-tie, or semi-formalwear. Fund-raisers, charity auctions, art museum functions, and the like, are semi-formal events.

So, to the subject at hand.

Formal evenings call for formal attire.

I’m not seeing a lot of wiggle room here.

And Norm, this is where you and I are going to disagree. Whereas the cruise lines may define formal attire as “modified black-tie?, I define formal attire as formal attire. And if the requested attire is “modified black-tie, but a dark business suit is OK?, then call it as such. Don’t call it “formal? evening.

And our fair young lady may think we’re splitting hairs here; but important hairs nonetheless.

You know, there is an example of what I’m talking about right here at CruiseMates. Mark, of Michelle P. and Mark, looked very well attired in his white-tie and white vest, in the Cruise of the Century photo posted by Paul Motter.

And so here we all are. We are either under-dressed for an event, or we are over-dressed. If you ask me, we are better over-dressed than under-dressed.

Dean
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Old January 17th, 2007, 04:45 PM
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Mean Dean:

You are correct in your precise definitions but the cruise lines do not adhere to those definitions and a man in true "formal" wear will be out of place in white tie and tails. Mark of "Michelle and Mark" accessorized his tuxedo with a white tie and vest. This is different than a full formal white tie and tails. BTW: The picture was mine.

In all of my cruises I have yet to see anyone in full, formal, white tie and tails. If one would like to go with a true formal look they may but they will have to "carry" it and have the confidence to do so.

Also, the cruise lines don't rent a "true" formal outfit, only tuxedos.

Take care,
Mike
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Old January 17th, 2007, 07:27 PM
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Dean,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I think we all agree on several things. Not the least of which is that our fair young lady will look wonderful in her new evening gown.

It’s on the topic of a gentleman’s evening wear that I’m going to have to disagree with you guys.

And I know what you’re thinking – “he’s out of touch, the old man.? And perhaps you’re right; but I see things the way I see them.

By the sartorial guides that I’ve studied, there are specific classifications of evening wear. The primary classifications are formalwear, and semi-formalwear.

Formalwear is: white-tie, white vest, tails, and top hat. Formalwear is appropriate attire at state functions, black & white balls, the opera or symphony, and formal evenings aboard ocean liners.

Semi-formalwear is: black-tie, no vest, no tails, no top hat. Put simply, a tuxedo. Semi-formalwear is appropriate attire at any event that calls for black-tie, or semi-formalwear. Fund-raisers, charity auctions, art museum functions, and the like, are semi-formal events.

So, to the subject at hand.

Formal evenings call for formal attire.

I’m not seeing a lot of wiggle room here.

And Norm, this is where you and I are going to disagree. Whereas the cruise lines may define formal attire as “modified black-tie?, I define formal attire as formal attire. And if the requested attire is “modified black-tie, but a dark business suit is OK?, then call it as such. Don’t call it “formal? evening.

And our fair young lady may think we’re splitting hairs here; but important hairs nonetheless.

You know, there is an example of what I’m talking about right here at CruiseMates. Mark, of Michelle P. and Mark, looked very well attired in his white-tie and white vest, in the Cruise of the Century photo posted by Paul Motter.

And so here we all are. We are either under-dressed for an event, or we are over-dressed. If you ask me, we are better over-dressed than under-dressed.
I agree with your basic thrust, but your definitions of "formal" and "semiformal" are absolutely wrong. Standard etiquette books list two degrees of "formal" -- "white tie," which is what you describe as "formal," and "black tie," which is what you wrongly called "semiformal." Correctly, "semiformal" means a business suit and "informal" means a sport coat, slacks, and necktie. The "formal" evenings on the classic ocean liners were never "white tie" events, even in their glory days.

The "formal" evenings on cruise ships do have a history to them. Back in the early 1970's, when cruising became popular, very few men owned "tuxedos" and rentals were quite expensive -- especially if one wanted the suit for a whole week. OTOH, most gentlemen who could afford cruises at that time were professionally employed, so they wore business suits -- then expected attire for professionals -- to work. Thus, the cruise lines adopted a very slight modification of "formal (black tie)" that allowed gentlemen who did not own "black tie" outfits to wear dark -- and I do mean DARK -- business suits. In such situations, the use of the word "formal" -- as in "modified formal (black tie)" -- was not exactly unreasonable, as the basic standard remained "formal" and the dark business suits were regarded as an accepted deviation from the strict standard.

Unfortunately, some cruise lines did not uphold even this standard but rather started modifying their explanations of "formal" to reflect what their passengers actually wore. On those lines, the "dark business suit" degenerated to any business suit ("semiformal") and then to sport coat and tie ("informal") over the intervening years, to the point where some cruise lines do nothing about passengers who come to dinner in jeans, "T" shirts, athletic socks, sneakers, and baseball caps on supposedly "formal" evenings. Unfortunately, the dress of the participants being a major factor in setting the atmosphere for the evening, these evenings no longer meet any reasonable definition of "formal." I'll give Norwegian Cruise Line credit for "coming clean" with its relatively recent adoption of a "formal optional" policy.

Most of the "premium" cruise lines continue to uphold the "modified formal (black tie)" standard of dress for their "formal" evenings, and the overwhelming majority of their passengers continue to demand it.

I must also point out that overdressing for an event is just as gauche as underdressing. When the host requests "modified formal (black tie)" attire, showing up in a "white tie" outfit is really over the top. This is an area in which ladies actually have significantly more latitude than gentlemen because the lines between a ball gown ("white tie") and an evening dress ("black tie") are much more blurred, thanks to the efforts of many fashion designers to produce classier evening dresses, than the lines between a dinner jacket and a tailcoat.

That said, the photo is a very nice evening dress -- not a ball gown. As such, it's properly worn to a "black tie" event.

Norm.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 01:44 PM
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OK my friends,

My final thoughts here (I guess we’ve hijacked this young lady’s thread suffieciently enough!)

This comes from Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formalwear ), a source anyone can checkout for himself:

Civilian formal wear can be categorized by dress codes. In the early decades of the twentieth century, the codes in England, Europe and North America were universally accepted as:
• Formal evening wear, also known as Full Dress or white tie
• Semiformal evening wear, or black tie
• Formal daytime dress, or morning dress
• Semiformal daytime dress (stroller)
• Informal dress (lounge suits)
However, the continual relaxing of formal standards since World War II have led to a blurring of what constitutes “formal? and “semi formal?. While pedigreed etiquette and menswear experts tend to still use the traditional terms - particularly when describing dress codes for weddings - many other consultants use more contemporary labels and definitions. It is now common to see white tie described as “very formal? or even “ultra formal? and black tie labeled as “formal?. Even the lounge suit, traditionally regarded as informal wear is sometimes worn as a type of pseudo-formal wear. Additionally, modern advisors allow for black tie at the most formal of events and for black tie alternatives at any other type of formal occasion. Subsequently it has become common to use the terms “white tie? and “black tie? to differentiate these specific dress codes from the more ambiguous and contextual “formal? or “semiformal? labels.


Just wanted everyone to know that I’m really not making this up! I’ve read several books, guides, and now this, and they all tell me the same thing.

Happy cruising!

Dean
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Old January 19th, 2007, 01:45 PM
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Yes that looks very nice, it is certainly ok.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 07:14 PM
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Beautiful dress!
Wear it with pride.
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Old January 20th, 2007, 02:53 AM
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Dean,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
OK my friends,

My final thoughts here (I guess we’ve hijacked this young lady’s thread suffieciently enough!)

This comes from Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formalwear ), a source anyone can checkout for himself:

Civilian formal wear can be categorized by dress codes. In the early decades of the twentieth century, the codes in England, Europe and North America were universally accepted as:
• Formal evening wear, also known as Full Dress or white tie
• Semiformal evening wear, or black tie
• Formal daytime dress, or morning dress
• Semiformal daytime dress (stroller)
• Informal dress (lounge suits)
However, the continual relaxing of formal standards since World War II have led to a blurring of what constitutes “formal? and “semi formal?. While pedigreed etiquette and menswear experts tend to still use the traditional terms - particularly when describing dress codes for weddings - many other consultants use more contemporary labels and definitions. It is now common to see white tie described as “very formal? or even “ultra formal? and black tie labeled as “formal?. Even the lounge suit, traditionally regarded as informal wear is sometimes worn as a type of pseudo-formal wear. Additionally, modern advisors allow for black tie at the most formal of events and for black tie alternatives at any other type of formal occasion. Subsequently it has become common to use the terms “white tie? and “black tie? to differentiate these specific dress codes from the more ambiguous and contextual “formal? or “semiformal? labels.


Just wanted everyone to know that I’m really not making this up! I’ve read several books, guides, and now this, and they all tell me the same thing.
Congratulations. You have just proven that Wikipedia is wrong. I have consulted several manuals of social etiquette and diplomatic protocol over the years, so I can assure you that "black tie" is NEVER cconsidered to be "semiformal."

And I should also mention that both "black tie" and "white tie" outfits are strictly eveningwear, and are not proeprly worn for daytime events. The proper daytime formalwear for gentlemen is a "morning suit," which is customarily grey and worn with an ascot rather than a bow tie.

Norm.
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Old February 24th, 2007, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Pic of the formal dress I plan to wear... this ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by courtnik82
As a followup to my post about the cruise wardrobe... here is the dress I purchased... still have receipt so if it's not ok I can return it! Still think this is going to be ok? I hope so, I really like it and actually look decent in it! Thanks again for all of you who helped me out! Can't wait for my cruise!



That dress is absolutely STUNNING, may I ask where you got it .... it's beautiful.
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Old February 25th, 2007, 10:21 AM
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Me too! And what cruise will you be on, so that we don't show up in the same dress together!
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Old February 25th, 2007, 01:00 PM
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Perfect!
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Old August 11th, 2007, 02:57 PM
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OOhhh La la. I like the black dress. Flashy earring to match the embellisment in middle and hair swept up- nice!
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Old August 11th, 2007, 05:29 PM
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its a very nice dress
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Old August 15th, 2007, 08:02 PM
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This group seems to have lots of opinions. Thought I would jump on board and say I love the dress! Very sexy in a classy sort of way. Exactly something I would choose. I think your man should wear a black suit with a red boutineere (sp?) Just my humble opinion.

So guys what do you think of the dress I'm planning on taking for Formal Night on my New Years Cruise? My husband will wear a black suit, crisp white shirt with cuff links, and a stunning red tie.

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Old August 15th, 2007, 11:35 PM
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Please do not wear that dress. Your husband will spend his entire evening fighting off all the other guys.

Seriously: It is lovely and you will look perfect.

Have a great cruise!!!!

Take care,
Mike
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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:09 AM
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I LOVE BOTH DRESSES HERE IS MINE BUT IN SILVER I WILL POST A PIC WHEN WE GET BACK FROM OUR CRUISE HOPE TO SEE EVERYONE'S PIC IN THIER FORMAL ATTIRE!
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Old August 21st, 2007, 02:35 PM
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WOW!!!!!! Some very nice dresses indeed. You will all look lovely on formal night.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 10:39 PM
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Beautiful! You will look fantastic. Happy cruising
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Old August 28th, 2007, 08:35 PM
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Tishbo96,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
This group seems to have lots of opinions. Thought I would jump on board and say I love the dress! Very sexy in a classy sort of way. Exactly something I would choose. I think your man should wear a black suit with a red boutineere (sp?) Just my humble opinion.

So guys what do you think of the dress I'm planning on taking for Formal Night on my New Years Cruise? My husband will wear a black suit, crisp white shirt with cuff links, and a stunning red tie.

I hope you are the lady in the photo because she makes that dress shine!

And that dress is very appropriate for "formal" evenings on any cruise line that has them!

Norm.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 08:36 PM
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shellygannon,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You


I LOVE BOTH DRESSES HERE IS MINE BUT IN SILVER I WILL POST A PIC WHEN WE GET BACK FROM OUR CRUISE HOPE TO SEE EVERYONE'S PIC IN THIER FORMAL ATTIRE!
Another beautiful dress! Do wear it!

Norm.
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