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  #31 (permalink)  
Old April 16th, 2007, 03:20 PM
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Norm... Game, Set, Match!!
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old April 16th, 2007, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Actually, there's no conflict whatsoever in the laws. Rather, California's "legalization" of "medical marijuana" was only a repeal of state laws that prohibited its use, coupled with provisions for controlled distribution. Since federal law still forbids posession or use of marijuana, its posession or use remains illegal everywhere throughout the United States -- including California.

That said, there's never a conflict between federal law and state law that is not resolved by the so-called "supremacy clause" of the federal constitution. The federal law always takes precedence in a case of conflict.
if an administrator at my school found out that i was ignoring school policy in my classroom i would be reprimanded... so does this mean we can give arnold the boot since he's currently in charge of our law breaking state? i know that possession still remains illegal... but my point was more that california has chosen to disregard federal policy... is that a good example for it's citizens? kind of a similar idea...

the supremacy clause says that in case of conflict between federal and state law that federal law is the higher authority... but the supremacy clause also ensures that the constitution is respected as THE supreme law of the land... meaning the federal government has to respect states law-making authority when it comes to issues not specifically assigned by the constitution to the federal government... hey, on a related note, the legal drinking age isn't even technically federal law...
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old April 16th, 2007, 11:37 PM
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megs,

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Originally Posted by You
if an administrator at my school found out that i was ignoring school policy in my classroom i would be reprimanded...
Or fired, or suspended, or sactioned, or you might face other consequences provided by the laws of your state, policies of the school district, or the contract under which you work. And if it also violates a criminal statute, you could face criminal prosecution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
... so does this mean we can give arnold the boot since he's currently in charge of our law breaking state? i know that possession still remains illegal... but my point was more that california has chosen to disregard federal policy... is that a good example for it's citizens? kind of a similar idea...
No, California has NOT chosen to disregard federal policy. California has merely rescinded state sanctions for acts that remain illegal under federal law. The fact that a "marijuana club" posesses a licence from the State of California does not mean that it can grow and distribute marijuana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
the supremacy clause says that in case of conflict between federal and state law that federal law is the higher authority... but the supremacy clause also ensures that the constitution is respected as THE supreme law of the land... meaning the federal government has to respect states law-making authority when it comes to issues not specifically assigned by the constitution to the federal government...
Actually, the "supremacy clause" says nothing of the sort. Nonetheless, the tenth article of amendment -- the last of the articles known as the "Bill of Rights" makes such provision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
hey, on a related note, the legal drinking age isn't even technically federal law...
That's right, the regulation of consumption of alcohol on land or on the waters within three miles of land is a matter of state law. The regulation of consumption of alcohol on the waters between three miles and twelve miles from land, on certain navable rivers, and in U. S. airspace is a matter of federal law, which also extends to ships and aircraft of U. S. registry. Nonetheless, the Congress has managed to weigh in on the matter by attaching conditions to grants of federal funds. Under present U. S. law each state must have a drinking age of not less than 21 in order to qualify for grants of federal highway funds. Alas, the Supreme Court of the United States has held that the Congress can attach whatever conditions it wishes to grants of federal funds.

And aboard a cruise ship, consumption of alcohol is governed by both the laws of the ship's place of registry and the policies of the cruise line.

Norm.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old April 17th, 2007, 02:18 AM
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Incredible. The amount of haberdashery that people put into trying to make their quilt of work fly as a flag on a flagpole, shouting out that it is ok to violate the not only the letter of the laws but the "Spirit" as well. Dudes, if you are too young, then don't do it and to all of you are of age and think it's ok to violate it... shame on you.
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Courage and perserverance have a magical talisman; before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into the air.

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old April 17th, 2007, 02:41 PM
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The amount of haberdashery that people put into trying to make their quilt of work fly as a flag on a flagpole

quilt of work?


Quote:
and to all of you are of age and think it's ok to violate it... shame on you.
*sigh* well, i for one simply thought it might be a little fun to have a little philosophical DISCUSSION on the matter. i for one do not think it's ok for minors to drink, but no one seems to pay attention to the fact that i wrote that as a disclaimer to my posts. i just think it's important for the mind to be able to honestly examine all points of view/possibilities, regardless if we agree with them or not...





"Every man ... should periodically be compelled to listen to opinions which are infuriating to him. To hear nothing but what is pleasing to one is to make a pillow of the mind." -John Ervine
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old April 17th, 2007, 02:47 PM
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another favorite quote:

"Fanatic. One who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
-Sir Winston Churchill


2 months and 5 days til my cruuuuise! yay!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old April 19th, 2007, 02:36 AM
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I've been searching up different cruises online because I'm interested in taking a vacation, and this website came up because I was curious about drinkingg ages and whatnot aboard different cruise lines. I am 20, and I am a Canadian , in Canada the legal drinking age is 19. For the past year I have been able to drink legally and responsibly for that matter and I enjoy having a drink or two on occasion. To get on a cruise ship and have the drinking age be 21 is almost like going back in time for me, I am legal age, so for me to want to go have drinks on vacation really is not a big deal... yes I realize that the drinking age is 21 on the boats but to say that the youth of today are bragging about breaking laws and this is part of the cause of problems in the world is crazy to me! I'm sorry I dont want to insult anyone but I was just intrigued by the conversation because for me having a drink on a cruise is not breaking the law. As far as I am concerned I am of legal age, the 'rule' is on the boat that you must be 21 but its like I'm in some kind of limbo, how am I able to drink anyday at home, but on vacation not be able to. We dont have riots and crazy drunks running around the streets here because the drinking age is 19, so for me its hard to understand why they would feel the need to raise the age to 21 on the cruises... anyways...if anyone does know of a cruise line that allows drinking under age 21 let me know!
Thanks.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old April 19th, 2007, 03:09 AM
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Rhonda20,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I've been searching up different cruises online because I'm interested in taking a vacation, and this website came up because I was curious about drinkingg ages and whatnot aboard different cruise lines. I am 20, and I am a Canadian , in Canada the legal drinking age is 19. For the past year I have been able to drink legally and responsibly for that matter and I enjoy having a drink or two on occasion. To get on a cruise ship and have the drinking age be 21 is almost like going back in time for me, I am legal age, so for me to want to go have drinks on vacation really is not a big deal... yes I realize that the drinking age is 21 on the boats but to say that the youth of today are bragging about breaking laws and this is part of the cause of problems in the world is crazy to me! I'm sorry I dont want to insult anyone but I was just intrigued by the conversation because for me having a drink on a cruise is not breaking the law. As far as I am concerned I am of legal age, the 'rule' is on the boat that you must be 21 but its like I'm in some kind of limbo, how am I able to drink anyday at home, but on vacation not be able to. We dont have riots and crazy drunks running around the streets here because the drinking age is 19, so for me its hard to understand why they would feel the need to raise the age to 21 on the cruises... anyways...if anyone does know of a cruise line that allows drinking under age 21 let me know!
Thanks.
So how is taking a cruise on a ship that sets the drinking age at twenty-one any different than spending a week on vacation in Las Vegas, or Honolulu, or anywhere else where the law sets the drinking age at twenty-one?

Norm.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old April 19th, 2007, 01:32 PM
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Rhonda,
Sweetie, they didn't "raise the drinking age to 21". It may seem that way to you, but it is really just the difference between your country and ours. And it is no different really from traveling anywhere outside of one's home country and needing to realize that the laws are different and that it is up to the traveler to obey them. I have been to places where both the laws and some of the customs seem ridiculous to me, but I still honored their culture, including the law.
I had a friend who thought that being American and not agreeing with the laws of a country she and her hubby were visiting meant that they didn't really have to obey the law. They both ended up in a jail in a third world country...more horrible than you can imagine.
I personally do not agree with the US drinking age being 21. And, I also feel that a cruise ship, where no one is driving should be more lenient, but, sadly, they did not consult with me, or you, before deciding.
Happy, safe traveling to all,
Marty
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old April 19th, 2007, 02:08 PM
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Marty,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Sweetie, they didn't "raise the drinking age to 21". It may seem that way to you, but it is really just the difference between your country and ours. And it is no different really from traveling anywhere outside of one's home country and needing to realize that the laws are different and that it is up to the traveler to obey them. I have been to places where both the laws and some of the customs seem ridiculous to me, but I still honored their culture, including the law.
I had a friend who thought that being American and not agreeing with the laws of a country she and her hubby were visiting meant that they didn't really have to obey the law. They both ended up in a jail in a third world country...more horrible than you can imagine.
Well said! Very well said!

And I'm very sorry that the fact that I agreed with you triggered a massive heart attack....

Quote:
I personally do not agree with the US drinking age being 21. And, I also feel that a cruise ship, where no one is driving should be more lenient, but, sadly, they did not consult with me, or you, before deciding.
Unfortunately, there's a history behind the current policy. Back in the late 1970's, most cruise lines did not raise their drinking age aboard ship when the U. S. Congress decreed that each state must forbid consumption of alcohol by all persons under twenty-one, except for medicinal use or as part of authentic religious services, in order to receive federal highway funds. The result was predictable. When cruises became cheap in the 1980's, college students discovered that they could drink as much as they wanted aboard ship if they booked cruises during their "spring break." The results were predictable -- the ships of several major cruise lines suddenly became the sites of excessive drinking and partying by the "spring break" crowd at that time of year. It probably was worst on Carnival, but Royal Caribbean and other lines also had a fair amount of it. Many other passengers complained, to the point where the cruise lines decided that they had to reign it in. So how do you reign in excessive drinking by college students?

>> 1. Restrictions on bookings for those between the ages of 18 and 21 (must book with spouse or adult over 25)

>> 2. Raise drinking age onboard to 21

>> 3. Strict policies about bringing private supplies of alcoholic beverages aboard ship

The last point also is partly in response to uncontrolled drinking by a few individuals who were over 21. When passengers buy booze from a bar, the bartender or bar server can cut off or slow down those are drinking too much or too quickly. When passengers have their own unlimited private supply, the cruise line has no control.

Sadly, the cruise companies generally are extending these polices to ALL of their lines in order to prevent problems on the lines that have not had problems. Thus, we are all paying the price for the excesses of a few.

Norm.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2007, 02:38 PM
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Norm,
You said:
"Thus, we are all paying the price for the excesses of a few."
I'm saving you a bed in the cardiac unit, since this time I agree with you!
Marty
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kath52
We have a large group of family going on the Legend 1/27/07 and my son's friend won't be 21 .His birthday is 2 wks after the cruise. How strict are they?[/i][/b]
He won't be able to buy drinks with his sign-and-sail card, but you or anybody over 21 will be able to buy drinks for him. Nobody will be watching who actually drinks them.

I can see this is a very emotional topic for some. As a point of clarification, most states still permit "underage" consumption of alcohol in some circumstances. In some states, there is no law against drinking at any age, while in others, consumption is only allowed in specific locations, in the presence of consenting and supervising family members, and/or during religious ceremonies. All states set 21 as the minimum age to *purchase* alchohol.

Cheers, Aidan
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Old April 25th, 2007, 06:16 PM
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Aidan,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
He won't be able to buy drinks with his sign-and-sail card, but you or anybody over 21 will be able to buy drinks for him. Nobody will be watching who actually drinks them.
Ah, don't count on the nobody watching. And if caught, you'll be leaving the ship in the next port of call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I can see this is a very emotional topic for some. As a point of clarification, most states still permit "underage" consumption of alcohol in some circumstances. In some states, there is no law against drinking at any age, while in others, consumption is only allowed in specific locations, in the presence of consenting and supervising family members, and/or during religious ceremonies. All states set 21 as the minimum age to *purchase* alchohol.
And in some states, "minor consumption" is a fairly serious offense. Anybody under 21 who consumes alcohol legally in British Columbia, crosses the border into Washington, and blows a 0.01 is guilty, and could be heading to jail.

This actually got to be a significant issue during the 1980-1983 "complex overhaul" of the nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser USS Long Beach (CGN-9) at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Bremerton, Washington. The shipyard had two enlisted clubs -- one within the fence and another outside the fence, directly across a city street from a back gate to the base. The federal government owned the land under both the base and the off-base club, so any sailor could drink in either club (the Navy's policy at the time being, in essence, that anybody who was old enough to serve was old enough to drink). The city's police started hanging out right on the sidewalk outside the club, where they arrested every sailor coming out of the club who was under 21 and registered anything measurable on a breathylier. I think that the commander of the naval shipyard eventually ended up issuing a new regulation saying that sailors under 21 could not be served in the club outside the fence because upheld the state law.

Norm.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2007, 06:41 PM
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What is the problem with going on a cruise and NOT drinking if you are under age? If you can not go for a week without a drink is there a possibility that there is a larger problem at hand? I am only referring to those under 21, I am not trying to get into anyone else's business who is of legal drinking age.
Kim
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2007, 07:03 PM
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Kim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
What is the problem with going on a cruise and NOT drinking if you are under age? If you can not go for a week without a drink is there a possibility that there is a larger problem at hand? I am only referring to those under 21, I am not trying to get into anyone else's business who is of legal drinking age.
You raise a very good point.

And those under 21 can always drink non-alcoholic concoctions called mocktails, too, and nobody will know the difference.

Norm.
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Old April 27th, 2007, 10:34 AM
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Heheh, interesting points, but not really very helpful to others with the same question as the original poster: "How strict are they?"

It reminds me of a hypothetical conversation like this:

Cruisemate 1: Can you get shrimp cocktail every night in the Legend's dining room?

Cruisemate 2: Yes you can!

Cruisemate 3: What is the problem with going on a cruise and NOT eating shrimp cocktail? If you can not go for a week without eating a shrimp cocktail is there a possibility that there is a larger problem at hand?

Cruisemate 4: Good point, and you can always eat other appetizers too, there are plenty of good ones.



Cheers, Aidan
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