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  #91 (permalink)  
Old December 28th, 2010, 11:04 PM
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It is not like you can just get up and go anywhere else to eat.
There are other places to eat other than the MDR.

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With the airlines charging extra for bagage I consider my tie and Jacket excess bagage.
You might try a carry on with your suit if you can not get it in your suitcase.

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Employers are absolutely entitled to create their own dress codes
If you employer has a dress code and you refuse to comply, what do you think the outcome would be?

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Sorry, it just doesnt work that way. you know when you buy your ticket what you are buying into. If you do not like it, then don't buy a ticket. but don't buy a ticket and then complain as if you are being treated unfairly because you are held to a standard that is layed out in print before you even purchase your ticket.
Couldn’t have said it better!

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We all must follow rules in life. its time we get used to it, and grow up. personaly, I do not care how much you paid for your ticket. I do not care what you want out of your trip. I do not care if you are happy about the rules or not. I do not care if you feel it is unfair to you. If you do not like it, then by all means, stay in your own cabin...and if all you can do is sulk and complain about it, by all means, stay off the ship. You paid the same price that I did....true. But you also booked the same cruise I did. and the cruise I booked, clearly stated the expectations before I paid for my ticket. you have no one to blame but yourself.
I agree, and for the ones that do not want to comply, take your attitudes to the airline the next time you fly and refuse to comply and see where that gets you.

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Donna - I suspect if some cruise lines enforced dress codes strictly, passenger numbers would drop off.
WRONG, most cruise line are booked out.


I think that if the cruise line has a dress code then they should enforce it or why have one. I don’t like the word “suggest”, might as well say, “Wear what you want”

Would like to see the cruise line have a disclaimer like my online business, “ By checking out, you are agreeing to the Terms and Conditions”

I personally dress up on “Elegant” night for the ambiance.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old December 29th, 2010, 05:09 PM
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Barryn514,

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I think that if the cruise line has a dress code then they should enforce it or why have one.
I agree completely!

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Originally Posted by You
I don’t like the word “suggest”, might as well say, “Wear what you want”
The word "suggest" actually conveys a very strict expectation of compliance.

New members of our armed forces very quickly learn two points of etiquette in boot camp, basic training, or a precommissioning program.

>> 1. A person of higher rank "suggests" to a person of lower rank, but a person of lower rank "recommends" to a person of higher rank.

>> 2. A "suggestion" constitutes a direct order.

And even in civilian life, ignore your boss's "suggestion" or a police officer's "suggestion" or, in court, a judge's "suggestion" and see what happens!

Norm.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old December 30th, 2010, 08:51 AM
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until the time comes that the cruise lines back the Maitre D's right to turn passengers away at the dining room door, dress code or not won't matter to some people.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old January 9th, 2011, 09:51 AM
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As I see it even the most strict of dress codes have become a thing of merely being a suggestion lately so why bother lugging along all the extra clothing when a casual attire will still get me seated in the DR.
A cruise ship can hardly be compared to an invitation to someone's wedding, being in the military or dressing as you employer wants you to. It's simply a vacation where you've paid your fare and as long as a person is neat and clean there should be no reason to force someone to comply. On our last cruise there were quite a number of people who chose not to fully comply (some not even close to casual on a formal night) and were welcomed in the DR with open arms. It's strictly a business and unless you're dressed in shorts & a T shirt on a formal evening most head waiters will turn a blind eye
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Old January 11th, 2011, 06:39 PM
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RichC,

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As I see it even the most strict of dress codes have become a thing of merely being a suggestion lately so why bother lugging along all the extra clothing when a casual attire will still get me seated in the DR.
Ah, which lines have you cruised lately?

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Originally Posted by You
A cruise ship can hardly be compared to an invitation to someone's wedding, being in the military or dressing as you employer wants you to.
Perhaps, but the norms of social etiquette still require that one follow the prescribed dress code. To do otherwise is exceedingly rude, both to one's fellow passengers and the to line's staff and officers, and gauche.

And the fine print in Celebrity's Contract of Passage now says that the ship can disembark you in the next port of call if you fail to follow the dress code. I'm sure that they actually do this only for the most eggregious cases or for passengers who act arrogantly toward staff who ask them politely to change, but the option is legally there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
It's simply a vacation where you've paid your fare and as long as a person is neat and clean there should be no reason to force someone to comply.
It's quite simple, really. If you don't want to dress for "formal" evenings, simply book your cruise on a line that does NOT hold "formal" evenings! That way, there's no problem.

And yes, there are several major cruise lines that do not hold "formal" evenings.

>> Disney Cruises offers an "all casual" cruise product with absolutely no need to dress up at all.

>> Carnival now advertises "elegant" evenings rather than "formal" evenings. On the "elegant" evenings, tradition "modified formal' dress is optional, but a sport shirt (long sleeves) with an open collar, or with a necktie, is acceptable for gentlemen.

>> Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL) advertises "formal optional" evenings rather than "formal" evenings. On those evenings, some of the ship's restaurants might require dressier attire but "casual" attire is acceptable in the rest of the restaurants.

Also, there are some cruise lines that offer "alternative casual" options for dining and entertainment in facilities separated from the main dining and entertainment areas. These options typically allow daytime "casual" attire, even on the "formal" evenings.

Norm.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old January 12th, 2011, 04:31 AM
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Many cruisers choose ther vessel based on itinerary and not dress code.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 12:20 PM
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Norm, what you fail to mention is that even Celebrity has dining venues for people that don't want to dress up. They needn't pick another line. And as a shareholder, I'd thank you for not steering clients away from Celebrity

You also miss lines like Oceania, Azamara, Seabourn, Regent off your list. You don't always have to go to the lowest denominator in Carnival or NCL. Classy lines have dropped formal nights too. Seems to be a trend.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old January 12th, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Trackypup View Post

You also miss lines like Oceania, Azamara, Seabourn, Regent off your list. You don't always have to go to the lowest denominator in Carnival or NCL. Classy lines have dropped formal nights too. Seems to be a trend.
Why is it a trend? Just might have something to do with customer preference?

I personally feel sorry for the menfolk - they get the raw deal on formal nights. Some of them look very uncomfortable booted and suited.

Anyway I will continue to select my vessel based on itinerary.

Annie
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Old January 12th, 2011, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by anniegb View Post
Why is it a trend? Just might have something to do with customer preference?

I personally feel sorry for the menfolk - they get the raw deal on formal nights. Some of them look very uncomfortable booted and suited.

Anyway I will continue to select my vessel based on itinerary.

Annie
The trend is that more lines are going casual than increasing in formality. Regent and Seabourn were recent changes. I don't see anyone adding formal nights, do you?
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Old January 12th, 2011, 04:24 PM
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Just back from a month on P&O Azura, we had about 8 formal, 4 "semi -formal" ( shirt & jacket for men) the rest smart casual.
Semi-formals are unusual on Caribbean fly cruises, so, due to restrictions on luggage, & the mistaken idea that they wouldn't actually do it, I decided not to take a jacket...when it appeared that they were actually having semi-formals I asked at reception (more like DEception!) where I was allowed to go & was told, most definitely, "only the buffet & outside bars". As I wasn't feeling too well, I gave the first two "semis" a miss & stayed in the cabin, my wife went out but brought me food back. Next port we bought a jacket from Macey's so I could ''participate fully in ship life'', needless to say the next semi-formal was a revelation....not only were people NOT wearing jackets, but t-shirts, polo shirts, jeans, trainers(sneakers). Right or wrong I was quite cross to think I was told I was not basically allowed inside the ship but in reality anyone could wear what they liked...AND I had spent $150 on a jacket!!
What IS he on about?...well, I think these cruise lines with dress codes should either enforce/uphold them or just forget it altogether, after all a rule that is ignored without penalty is a nonsense.
Personally I don't care what dress codes they dictate...I just go with it & I will not ignore the dress code of the day, I don't think anyone else should.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:07 PM
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John

I would bet that those who wore t-shirts/jeans etc did not check with 'Deception' first. Your 'mistake' was to ask 'Deception' first

I understand your anger and I agree with you that the inconsistent enforcement of these dress codes is the root of a lot of the discontent expressed on this subject.

You and I agree to disagree on formal nights - however I have been told my 'smart casual' is considered 'formal' by others - go figure!

Annie
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:11 PM
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This seems to the major concern here with dress codes, the lack of actually enforcing them or letting them go. It does make packing and traveling more difficult when having to take extra clothes just for dinner and after dinner.

Too bad you had to fork out $ just to purchase a jacket that you actually didn't need, but hopefully you can get some use out of it at home...
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:35 PM
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Annie,
I don't regard my visit to deception as a mistake, as I will always abide by the dress codes. The info they gave was either wrong or wrongly policed. Trouble is they sometimes appear a bit...erm..well...thick? They should have all the answers but don't.
Donna,
We had 23kg's luggage each for a month!....another inconsistency was SOME were allowed to take extra if they paid, I was told this was not possible & if we were ''over'' we would have to leave it behind! A lady we met had a different dress every night, I said did you bring 28 dresses? she said "no, 33 just in case!" She was allowed to pay extra. We bought new carry on cases to meet the regulations but they were not checked for size or weight, I left my binoculars at home, couldn't risk being told to throw them in a bin. The size rule made perfect sense when we boarded the plane, as they fitted exactly in the lockers....but those who brought on larger bags took up space that was for others.
Another inconsistency was "the Retreat", a private Sanctuary style area you pay for, all sold out 1st day on a first come basis when half the ship had not even left the UK yet!!
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:57 PM
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Annie,
Trouble is they sometimes appear a bit...erm..well...thick? They should have all the answers but don't.
You made me laugh out loud! ... and I was told I was direct.

I assume it was a charter airline - I always enquire about purchasing extra luggage capacity - just in case.

Now 33 dresses - I don't own 33 dresses - in fact no-one I know owns 33 dresses - except possibly the Royal Family

As far as the Sanctuary is concerned that should be bookable in advance like shore excursions - JMHO

Annie
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:34 PM
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Direct...me?? I am an evil monster, didn't you know?
I bet a few on Azura didn't realise that nice John bloke was actually that nasty JTD!!
I just think that any rules, regulations & information given should be accurate & consistant to all, booking stuff should be an even opportunity for all & not just sold to the first to arrive.
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old January 13th, 2011, 10:29 AM
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as i mentioned earlier, until the cruise lines either "enforce" the dress codes or get rid of them entirely this will never end
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Old January 13th, 2011, 10:54 AM
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as i mentioned earlier, until the cruise lines either "enforce" the dress codes or get rid of them entirely this will never end
and why don't some of the cruise lines 'enforce' the code - I suspect the answer is money.

As you say Lisa this thread will continue ad nauseum. I am going to try and not post on such future threads .

Amen
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Old January 13th, 2011, 12:22 PM
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as i mentioned earlier, until the cruise lines either "enforce" the dress codes or get rid of them entirely this will never end
That is exactly right! I just wish they would do one or the other, the worst option is what they do now, which is have a rule that isn't a rule.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old January 13th, 2011, 07:56 PM
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Trackypup,

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Norm, what you fail to mention is that even Celebrity has dining venues for people that don't want to dress up. They needn't pick another line.
Celebrity's "alternative casual" options are very limited -- just the buffet restaurant, the pizza and pasta bar(s), and the sushi bar. AFAIK, all of Celebrity's specialty restaurants have the same dress code as the main dining room.

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Originally Posted by You
And as a shareholder, I'd thank you for not steering clients away from Celebrity
As a shareholder of Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (NYSE: RCL), Celebrity's parent company, I want satisfied customers -- not disaffected customers. This has two direct implications.

>> 1. I really want people to choose to cruise on each of our lines based upon accurate information. I would rather be honest with a prospective customer about the fact that Celebrity's "alternative casual" options are very limited and have the customer choose another line than lead a customer to expect more extensive "casual" options than what Celebrity actually provides and go away disappointed and disaffected.

>> 2. I also want people who sign up for a Celebrity cruise with the expectation that the advertised "formal" evenings really will be "formal" evenings to have their expectations met. The presence of a few passengers who disregard the dress code and "crash" the "formal" venues and events diminishes the ambiance of a "formal" evening, for which those customers have paid. This is an instance in which a relative handful of miscreants can drive away hundreds of loyal customers.

Both of these considerations recommend in favor of honesty about how limited Celebrity's "alternative casual" options really are. It's really better for all concerned if a prospective passenger chooses a different line that's a better match, even if the better match is another company's cruise line.

And who knows -- the line that's a better match may well be a sister line (either Royal Caribbean or Azamara), in which case we get the business anyway. :-)

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Originally Posted by You
You also miss lines like Oceania, Azamara, Seabourn, Regent off your list. You don't always have to go to the lowest denominator in Carnival or NCL. Classy lines have dropped formal nights too. Seems to be a trend.
Yes, you are quite correct. The omission of these lines from my earlier post was an oversight on my part. They slipped my mind when I wrote the earlier post.

And thank you for supplying the information!

Norm.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 08:04 PM
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anniegb,

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Many cruisers choose ther vessel based on itinerary and not dress code.
One ought to consider both. The major cruise lines offer similar itineriaries in most of the major cruising markets, so one usually has plenty of options.

Norm.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 08:12 PM
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anniegb,



One ought to consider both. The major cruise lines offer similar itineriaries in most of the major cruising markets, so one usually has plenty of options.

Norm.
Similar is not identical - there are NOT plenty of options for College Fjord.

I think you need to research your information more accurately.

A lot of cruisers will contnue to select vessel by itinerary and not by dress code and all power to them.

Anne
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Old January 13th, 2011, 08:15 PM
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Annie,

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Why is it a trend? Just might have something to do with customer preference?
Customer preference is all over the map.

>> At one extreme, there are some folks who don't want to dress for dinner at all, and in fact would prefer to wear shorts or jeans and T shirts throughout the evening as well as in the daytime.

>> And at the other extreme, there are many folks who enjoy dressing "to the nines" for a special occasion and thus look forward to doing so on a cruise.

The difficulty arises when you get both groups, and various degrees in between, on the same cruise. There's simply no way to accommodate both.

The best way to solve the problem seems to be through branding -- one cruise line offers a traditional cruise, with true "formal" evenings, another cruise line offers an "all casual" product, another cruise line offers "elegant" evenings that are less dressy than the true "formal" evenings but more dressy than the "casual" evenings, etc. That way, you know exactly what to expect, and what's expected of you, based on the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I personally feel sorry for the menfolk - they get the raw deal on formal nights. Some of them look very uncomfortable booted and suited.
A tuxedo is no less comfortable than shorts and a "T" shirt, if it's fitted correctly. And FWIW, I think we get the best deal on the "formal" evenings because we get to see all of the ladies looking so elegant in their finery!

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Originally Posted by You
Anyway I will continue to select my vessel based on itinerary.
And I don't have a problem with that, so long as you follow the dress code prescribed by the line on which you happen to book.

But bear in mind that another line with a similar itinerary may be a better match for you.

Norm.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 08:24 PM
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Annie,

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and why don't some of the cruise lines 'enforce' the code - I suspect the answer is money.
You're right -- but failure to enforce dress codes out of fear of alienating a customer is "penny wise and pound foolish." A customer who "crashes" the "formal" party on a "formal" evening in less than "formal" attire offends many of the other passengers by that very fact.

Frankly, I'm surprised that there has not been a "truth in advertising" lawsuit against one cruise line or another for advertising "formal" evenings and failing to enforce the dress. It does not take many passengers in sloppy attire to detract significantly from the ambiance that a "formal" event should have!

Norm.
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Old February 17th, 2011, 04:06 AM
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NCL does not have a dress code, but Carnival and Royal Caribbean do. All Carnival and Royal Caribbean really require is slacks/khakis and a button up shirt on formal night. I have seen people wear dark jeans on formal night on Carnival though, but I myself wouldn't try it if I was forced to dress down from my usual tuxedo for formal nights. Do not be afraid to use a travel agent if you haven't booked yet as they can be very helpful since they are knowledgeable about policies. You do have to be careful in choosing one since some like to nickel and dime their clients with services fees, which I find reprehensible as a travel agent myself. In any case, given your aversion to dressing up, I would recommend NCL to you for that very reason.
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Old February 17th, 2011, 05:13 PM
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Brad,

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NCL does not have a dress code, but Carnival and Royal Caribbean do. All Carnival and Royal Caribbean really require is slacks/khakis and a button up shirt on formal night.
I'm aware that Carnival had changed their dress code to say that gents may wear a sport shirt and slacks on the "elegant" evening -- and I give them credit for replacing the term "formal" with "elegant" because those evenings are no longer "formal."

But I'm not aware of a similar change at Royal Caribbean International (RCI). AFAIK, RCI still prescribes wear coat and tie for gents. Of course, what's prescribed is not necessarily what really happens, especially on the cruise lines that don't enforce their own rules.

Norm.
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Old February 17th, 2011, 06:16 PM
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I have a thread going on the subject of what it is that is so confusing about dress codes, some are even confused by the question! The thread has degraded into insults now, can't see what the problem is myself, just wear what they ask you to. I have been on ships with strict codes & ships with no codes, all the same to me I accept what they say & dress accordingly.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 10:00 AM
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I have a thread going on the subject of what it is that is so confusing about dress codes, some are even confused by the question! The thread has degraded into insults now, can't see what the problem is myself, just wear what they ask you to. I have been on ships with strict codes & ships with no codes, all the same to me I accept what they say & dress accordingly.
my point exactly, having been saying that over and over again for years, just wear what they ask you to
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Old February 25th, 2011, 03:55 PM
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This morning got of a 5 day cruise on the Spirit and to my dislike they didn't even begin to address to dress code in anyway. We had a table with another couple and he wore cut off jeans and flip flops and some nights a baseball cap. Even on elegant so called night. It clearly states, NO JEAN SHORTS AND FLIP FLOPS but they didn't care.
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Old October 23rd, 2011, 10:38 PM
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Don't worry about dress code so much. It's on evening dinner that you should follow the dress code. And remember: Comfort comes first!
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Old October 25th, 2011, 03:41 PM
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In my experience, it is not just the cruise line that impacts the dress code, but also the length of the cruise. Less than 7 days and I expect minimal compliance with dress code. 2 weeks or more and it will be both dressier and better enforced. I don't really mind, unless someone is really into trailer trash style (no offence to those in mobile homes, I mean it only as a figure of speech). A lot of folks who have never cruised before will start with a short one. Or, maybe that's all the time and/or money they can spend. So, if they don't have a clue or don't have the clothes, so be it. True class has nothing to do with money or clothes.
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