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  #31 (permalink)  
Old October 5th, 2010, 01:40 PM
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Hmmmmmmm, Good points Kuki and so true.

I may not be in a big hurry, that type of attitude may be more prevalent on Cunard and such.....
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old October 5th, 2010, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lannp View Post
Just because you are staying in a Grill cabin doesn't make you any better than a non-Grill passenger. I witnessed this kind of behaviour in the Priority check-in line last year at Southampton. Although I was a Britannia-grade passenger with my Platinum status I check in with the Diamond status and Grills passengers. While waiting for an agent to become available "Queen's Grill" passengers announced we are Grill and pushed ahead of me and strode to the available agent before the Cunard rep and I could blink. The rep apologized profusely and I said it didn't matter and muttered "Just because you are Grill doesn't make you any better". The rep did not say a word but she gave me a big smile.

The thing I find interesting was that when they were allowed to stay on board, Bernie Warner took away their alcohol. To me that implies that this might be an alcohol-fueled problem.
Linda
I would bet that most Grill passengers would agree with you. I have had the good luck to travel twice on the QM 2, once in Princess Grill and the other in Queens Grill. The vast majority of those I met in the Grills were very nice and not arrogant. There have been a few quirky passengers that were a bit full of themselves, but they were truly few in number.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old October 6th, 2010, 11:52 PM
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First, let me say... and although I've hinted at it in my NCL Gem review have NEVER talked or written about it.. One night while sitting at the bar with a diet coke.. an Engineering Officer and I struck up a conversation..Not only were his comments (he was from Croatia) anti-American calling them "stupid pigs"...he then began anti-semetic remarks about the Jews and all their money..Being Jewish I calmly told him all the things he was saying was not true...I did not yell or at that point tell my husband.. The next morning I went to the Purser and in the privacy of her office told her my story... within an hour.. the Security Officer came up to find out what the story was and who the man was...He was identified by security cameras at the bar..The Security Officer gave me a "song and dance" about hatred and prejuidice...blah, blah, blah.. What happened to the Officer, I don't know...I was told he would be dealt with!!! If I had chosen to make this encounter public last year I would have posted it on various sites where there are a great many NCL cruisers to warn Jewish cruisers who support NCL...to think twice. The incident on the Cunard and the comments by posters in the Post..show that anti-semitism exists.... what the Captain did with the other couple involved in this nobody seems to know.. How obnoxious this NY woman is I don't know but to have treated this couple so poorly by confining them to their cabin and not paying attention to any other couples taking their side is unconscionable.. To think that this behavior is allowed on the Cunard line and anti--semitism is rampant... is beyond belief.. Yes, Cunard draws a very upscale clientle and they expect and demand certain things.. but to hear a passenger say "there are too many Jews".... I would have probably answered the same as the insulted guest..Oh, I can just imagine what Parrot Pop would say.. Most likely too...a trip to the Captain or whoever to demand an apology on this couples attitude.. Shame, shame, shame on Cunard and their Captain. I'm sure all this negative publicity will damage their reputation.. Folks.. Anti-semitism is not dead...it's alive sadly to say
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old October 7th, 2010, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Parrot Mom View Post
First, let me say... and although I've hinted at it in my NCL Gem review have NEVER talked or written about it.. One night while sitting at the bar with a diet coke.. an Engineering Officer and I struck up a conversation..Not only were his comments (he was from Croatia) anti-American calling them "stupid pigs"...he then began anti-semetic remarks about the Jews and all their money..Being Jewish I calmly told him all the things he was saying was not true...I did not yell or at that point tell my husband.. The next morning I went to the Purser and in the privacy of her office told her my story... within an hour.. the Security Officer came up to find out what the story was and who the man was...He was identified by security cameras at the bar..The Security Officer gave me a "song and dance" about hatred and prejuidice...blah, blah, blah.. What happened to the Officer, I don't know...I was told he would be dealt with!!! If I had chosen to make this encounter public last year I would have posted it on various sites where there are a great many NCL cruisers to warn Jewish cruisers who support NCL...to think twice. The incident on the Cunard and the comments by posters in the Post..show that anti-semitism exists.... what the Captain did with the other couple involved in this nobody seems to know.. How obnoxious this NY woman is I don't know but to have treated this couple so poorly by confining them to their cabin and not paying attention to any other couples taking their side is unconscionable.. To think that this behavior is allowed on the Cunard line and anti--semitism is rampant... is beyond belief.. Yes, Cunard draws a very upscale clientle and they expect and demand certain things.. but to hear a passenger say "there are too many Jews".... I would have probably answered the same as the insulted guest..Oh, I can just imagine what Parrot Pop would say.. Most likely too...a trip to the Captain or whoever to demand an apology on this couples attitude.. Shame, shame, shame on Cunard and their Captain. I'm sure all this negative publicity will damage their reputation.. Folks.. Anti-semitism is not dead...it's alive sadly to say
Sadly, anti-semitism, racism, homophobia, ageism, etc. are all alive and well. But to suggest that Cunard is exceptionally problematic is senseless.
I am also Jewish, and don't really "look" Jewish. I regularly hear anti-semitic remarks even here in NYC.
I am also gay but don't "look" or "act" gay. I also hear anti-gay remarks.
Just look at the level of political and civil discourse in our society. Look at the politicians (on both sides) and watch their pandering to ignorant statements and making blanket statements about groups of people.
To consider someone an individual, rather than a member of a group, requires an active mind. Sadly many people have very dull, lazy intellects.
Even on this board, a thread about child molestation quickly received a posting that suggested that liberals would be more tolerant. With that low level of discourse, how can we expect better?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old October 7th, 2010, 08:41 AM
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Parrot Mom:

I agree with you and, as I alluded to in my previous post, I may have responded with the same f-bomb as the woman did. However I have a hard time believing that just saying "F*** you" to someone who had made such a remark would result in them being confined to the cabin and then being booted off the ship. There is more to the story.

"If" the f-bomb comment was the only reason they were booted off, especially in response to such a hateful comment, then yes there is a terrible anti semitic attitude aboard Cunard. I really don't believe that and there is more to the story.

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old October 7th, 2010, 08:45 AM
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In my opinion the New York Post should not have used the J word in its story title. "Religious slur " would have been a better choice of word.

The passenger who made the slur should have been escorted off of the ship instead.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old October 7th, 2010, 10:07 AM
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MARKNYC- Unfortunately or is it sadly, I'm of the age when I did receive anti-Jewish comments growing up and being the only Jewish child in school.. You have a "double whammy".. gay and Jewish..and I don't know what "looking Jewish is about these days"...Dear friends/partners on a Princess cruise with us were subjected to anti-gay remarks from a guide for more than an hour last year.. This may get me "deleted" as has been recently, but there is a "conservative" group on this board who think LIBERALS are to blame for the worlds problems and blame them for everything from the oil leak to I swear the weather.. For the heck of it I checked out another cruise board on this discussion this a.m. and there is no uproar by posters, many of them being Brits.. According to one poster there is on the Silverseas a list of "banned" passengers..If that is so and these people had caused problems previously why were they allowed to board.. I honestly believe there are three sides of the story and there is no doubt that the media will pickup on this and the couple will be all over the tv talk shows.. As for my experience on the NCL Gem I wish I had gone further to find out exactly what the punishment for the officer would be, especially when the Security Officer talked about attitudes in other countries with black soccer players and it was "common"..Right now Cunard has a major public relations problem and we have just heard only the beginning of it.. As an aside I have just received from Yad Vashem a long lost photo album that was taken at Auschweitz..(sp) showing Jews getting off the train and the separation, etc. etc. ..You know.. I think now not only would I have said the same phrase.. but maybe a glass of my wine in their face too. Being Jewish and Liberal is not easy these days, is it!!

Last edited by Parrot Mom; October 7th, 2010 at 10:28 AM.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old October 7th, 2010, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkNYC View Post
Sadly, anti-semitism, racism, homophobia, ageism, etc. are all alive and well. But to suggest that Cunard is exceptionally problematic is senseless.
I am also Jewish, and don't really "look" Jewish. I regularly hear anti-semitic remarks even here in NYC.
I am also gay but don't "look" or "act" gay. I also hear anti-gay remarks.
Just look at the level of political and civil discourse in our society. Look at the politicians (on both sides) and watch their pandering to ignorant statements and making blanket statements about groups of people.
To consider someone an individual, rather than a member of a group, requires an active mind. Sadly many people have very dull, lazy intellects.
Even on this board, a thread about child molestation quickly received a posting that suggested that liberals would be more tolerant. With that low level of discourse, how can we expect better?
I too am jewish and do not look jewish .Living in NYC most of my life I have heard a lot of antisemitic remarks .I can understand Mark's point very well. At one time I worked in the same building as Barney Frank and often would be in the elevator with him .After he would get off there were people in the elevator making antisemitic and anti gay remarks .Sometimes while he was still in the elevator .

Each of my parents lost siblings in concentration camps .The holocaust is something that should never be forgotten but alas too many people have .
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old October 11th, 2010, 05:23 AM
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Just FYI:

Yesterday I was at a press conference here on Cunard Queen Elizabeth and someone asked about the incident.

Micky Arison (CEO and top shareholder of Carnival Corp, owners of Cunard Lines), who is not only Jewish but a first generation American, son if an Israeli citizen said...

"Based on the behavior of the couple onboard the QM2, they would have been thrown off of any Carnival Corporation ship"

That was all he said, but I took it to mean that neither their monetary situation nor their guest profile made no difference, their behavior was especially egregious, despite the fact that they were responsing to what apparently were anti-semitic remarks.
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Old October 11th, 2010, 09:15 AM
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I think with the long with the list of infractions, this boorish couple has with the Captain, this incident was the last straw. Knowing he had a back to back cruise with this couple ahead, he had visions of crazy, dancing in his head. So, in this case, the f bomb trumped an anti semitic remark. Removing them was easy, and their past history made it so...Had the remarks been said to anyone else, who was just minding their own business, the "other" person might have been the one removed.

I am not surprised by Arrison's remark, but, disappointed. That his remark was short, was intentional. To have explained further, he would have then had to justify the handling of the situation, to groups, he would rather not.

People will read into his response differently, as we just read.....
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old October 11th, 2010, 09:47 AM
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"I am not surprised by Arrison's remark, but, disappointed. That his remark was short, was intentional. To have explained further, he would have then had to justify the handling of the situation, to groups, he would rather not.

People will read into his response differently, as we just read....."

ABSOLUTELY agree with you Trip and Paul expected a more in detail response by Mr. Arinson....or are they expecting a law suit and want to keep the minute details under the covers. This is a sticky and disdainful situation for Cunard/Carnival and I'm sure there are many potential cruisers who will think twice about the attitude of the line. I don't ever expect to find myself financially able to cruise on Cunard...but if I was.. I'd certainly take my business elsewhere. Behind the scenes we can bet there is a thorough investigation and new policies and procedures for handling these sad situations, don't you agree
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old October 11th, 2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
Just FYI:

Yesterday I was at a press conference here on Cunard Queen Elizabeth and someone asked about the incident.

Micky Arison (CEO and top shareholder of Carnival Corp, owners of Cunard Lines), who is not only Jewish but a first generation American, son if an Israeli citizen said...

"Based on the behavior of the couple onboard the QM2, they would have been thrown off of any Carnival Corporation ship"

That was all he said, but I took it to mean that neither their monetary situation nor their guest profile made no difference, their behavior was especially egregious, despite the fact that they were responsing to what apparently were anti-semitic remarks.
Thanks for update Paul.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old October 11th, 2010, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Yesterday I was at a press conference here on Cunard Queen Elizabeth and someone asked about the incident.

Micky Arison (CEO and top shareholder of Carnival Corp, owners of Cunard Lines), who is not only Jewish but a first generation American, son if an Israeli citizen said...

"Based on the behavior of the couple onboard the QM2, they would have been thrown off of any Carnival Corporation ship"
Gees, I'd have loved to have been there to discuss the incidents I've personally witnessed on other Carnival Corp ships, that were more physical confrontations, yet the participants were allowed to stay on board, and not even restricted to their cabins.
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Old October 11th, 2010, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip View Post
I think with the long with the list of infractions, this boorish couple has with the Captain, this incident was the last straw. Knowing he had a back to back cruise with this couple ahead, he had visions of crazy, dancing in his head. So, in this case, the f bomb trumped an anti semitic remark. Removing them was easy, and their past history made it so...Had the remarks been said to anyone else, who was just minding their own business, the "other" person might have been the one removed.

I am not surprised by Arrison's remark, but, disappointed. That his remark was short, was intentional. To have explained further, he would have then had to justify the handling of the situation, to groups, he would rather not.

People will read into his response differently, as we just read.....
I personally see nothing wrong in what Arison said to Paul .The NY Post to myself and many others is a step above the National Inquirer .Its known for its "sensationalism" .The fact that this story did not continue beyond the initial reporting is indicative that there was merit to the actions of the Captain .
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Old October 11th, 2010, 03:50 PM
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We can all read something into his short statement, or nothing at all...it's the people's choice,and I wouldn't want it any other way...
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Old October 11th, 2010, 08:26 PM
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Gees, I'd have loved to have been there to discuss the incidents I've personally witnessed on other Carnival Corp ships, that were more physical confrontations, yet the participants were allowed to stay on board, and not even restricted to their cabins.
Yep. Us too. I mentioned this on Johns blog. There needs to be more strict enforcement against folks that misbehave. Might change the continued image the Fun ships have as being party boats with rude drunken people.
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