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-   -   Couple booted off QM2 (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/cunard/377265-couple-booted-off-qm2.html)

Snoozeman October 3rd, 2010 03:59 PM

Couple booted off QM2
 
Couple booted off of QM2

Did you see the article in the NYPost? Very interesting.

Manhattan couple booted from cruise over 'Jew slur' fight - NYPOST.com

Lakers Fan October 3rd, 2010 04:38 PM

There are several sides to this story:
The 82 year old woman and her 91 year old husbands version
Passengers siding with the couple
The Captains version

Trip October 3rd, 2010 05:10 PM

I read this in the paper this morning...I found it odd, that, according to what I read, the Captain, only acted on what this elderly woman said, and not the person who made the anti semitic comment.

I knew a couple who once were in a ship's casino, and, the crew member working the table made a similar type comment to my friend..Complaint was made,and the man was off the ship in the next port...

If every person who said the "f" bomb on board a ship, were removed, ships would then sail almost empty...

Mike M October 3rd, 2010 06:05 PM

There really has to be more to the story. The couple had to be doing more than dropping the f bomb in response to such a nasty remark. I may have responded with the exact same statement.

Or the old couple had been obnoxious on more than one occasion and/or they did more than just drop the f bomb.

Somewhere in the midst of everyone's story is the truth.

I would like to know what evidence the Captain used to make his decision to kick them off the ship.

Take care,
Mike

Lakers Fan October 3rd, 2010 08:19 PM

Supposedly the Captan knew the elderly couple from previous cruises .

MarkNYC October 4th, 2010 09:06 AM

I met them on a September sailing - she is a total nutjob.

Catherinelady October 4th, 2010 01:28 PM

Rich people on cruises always think they are better then anyone else and they think the deserve better treatment. I have news for them (they put their pants on one leg at a time like I do and everyone else). They are no better.

Its nice to see rich nasty people locked up in their cabins, keep them away from everyone else.:-)

lannp October 4th, 2010 02:31 PM

Ive seen this article and also a British article and feel I have only heard one side of the story. The only Quebec port is Quebec City which is the capital of the province of Quebec and certainly is NOT some little backwater town.

Paul Motter October 4th, 2010 02:51 PM

Yeah - those stupid rich people! :rolleyes:

Anyway - seems to me Cunard had their run-ins with these people before and already had their number. The woman's past as she was bragging about it (that her first hubby or whoever made his money by producing "The Stewardesses" - that was certainly a breakthrough movie, the first full frontal 3-D porn movie, how arty).

These people were scummy by all appearances, who just happened to have money. I'll bet they were drunk, profane and obnoxious and deserved whatever they got.

Trip October 4th, 2010 03:23 PM

Ok, lets' agree that the Captain, did have runs in with these people before,and felt justified in having them removed from the ship. Bad behavior,and a history with the cruise line, is not a good thing....He had run out of patience, and I get that, and, agree..I would not want loud and obnoxious peolpe at my table, while trying to enjoy our dinner....But....

Are you reading other reports, other than the NY Post article? No one has mentioned the other persons offensive remark in this thread..that I find disconcerting a bit....there are always 3 sides to a story,and the Captain, has the last word... a trust, he takes seriously, to be sure....

Paul Motter October 4th, 2010 03:54 PM

Linda...

You are referring to the fact that the couple was reportedly responding to a "Rick Sanchez" (as I will now refer to a person stupidly making anti-semitic remarks).

Yes, it is sad, but there will always be stupid people who say wrong things. As bad as that is, I still stand by the idea that it isn't illegal to be stupid and we do still have free speech in this country. Even if people say intolerable things it does not give anyone the right to react to them abusively.

One stupid does not justify another.

Trip October 4th, 2010 04:04 PM

There must be newer reports out today,with additional info.....there is stupid everywhere...enough to go around for all involved:-(

Lakers Fan October 4th, 2010 04:19 PM

I read the article in the NY Post and the antisemitic remark was referred to .I also read that there were witnesses to what was said and what was not said .My thinking is that the Captain of a Cunard ship especially one who has had these people on his ships previously would not "punish " them without being certain .

Snoozeman October 4th, 2010 04:37 PM

Does it really matter what was said (even if vile and offensive) does it really justify someone to physically and verbally assault someone?

Perhaps it does (in Texas we have the expression, 'thems fightin' words'), but if you do respond, then you are then responsible for your own actions.

Sounds like the lady initiated a rowdy conversation with the gentlemen who said the improper comment. Who knows what she said to him to make him respond, I'm thinking something just as improper. Then she really went off the deep end and with her previous history of abuse the Captain took action.

Snoozeman October 4th, 2010 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip (Post 1321007)
There must be newer reports out today,with additional info.....there is stupid everywhere...enough to go around for all involved:-(

I disagree, not ALL. I don't see any stupid in the actions of the Captain. His actions were the result of stupid.

Trip October 4th, 2010 06:18 PM

What are you reading other then the NY Post article?. In it there was no mention of anyone getting physical. Going by just what was mentioned in the story,and this is just one side of course, it says...

Minutes into their meal that day, the couple said, one of their dining companions told Sher to shut up, then added, "There are too many Jews on board."
Sher, who is Jewish, admits she got angry, shooting back, "F- - k you!" and "How dare you insult me!" before storming off to her stateroom.
The next morning, the ship's captain, Commodore Bernard Warner, knocked on the couple's cabin door.
"You insulted a fellow passenger. I'm going to have to ask you to leave the ship," he said, quoting from a manual.

When did the F bomb trump an anti semitic remark, as being more offensive?

MarkNYC October 4th, 2010 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catherinelady (Post 1320985)
Rich people on cruises always think they are better then anyone else and they think the deserve better treatment. I have news for them (they put their pants on one leg at a time like I do and everyone else). They are no better.

Its nice to see rich nasty people locked up in their cabins, keep them away from everyone else.:-)

Generalize much?

Paul Motter October 4th, 2010 07:08 PM

I don't recall reading anything about physical violence. I guess it was just the fact that the lady didn't know when to stop that got on the Capt.'s nerves.


Linda, you are absolutely right and the F-bomb is far more common than anti-Semitic remarks. I do not think one trumps the other.

Snoozeman October 4th, 2010 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip (Post 1321039)
What are you reading other then the NY Post article?. In it there was no mention of anyone getting physical.

You need to read it again then.........

The couple, who met aboard the Queen Elizabeth 2 in 1991 and knew Warner from several trips on the QM2, were stunned, especially when he insinuated that the 95-pound Sher had pushed someone.

I don't think that the Captain is going to make insinuations unless he know it to be true. This is probably the main reason to be booted off. The language and abuse was secondary. Seems clear to me.

Trip October 4th, 2010 08:59 PM

Insinuation, is not fact to my mind, and, it may be clear to you, and that's ok. I''ll leave this thread now, thinking there is still "some" muddy water..that's ok too:)

MarkNYC October 4th, 2010 09:12 PM

Of course no one except the parties involved know the real story. But I can tell you that on our sailing she pissed off a lot of people by being very obnoxious.
The husband seemed pretty frail.

Snoozeman October 4th, 2010 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip (Post 1321072)
Insinuation, is not fact to my mind, and, it may be clear to you, and that's ok. I''ll leave this thread now, thinking there is still "some" muddy water..that's ok too:)

Of course we don't know exactly what happened, but the Captain knows exactly what happened.

Insinuation is the word the reporter used. The Captain didn't insinuate anything, he made a statement to the couple as to why they were to be booted. He had to have mentioned the physical part as Sher admitted that much to the reporter.

I'm not saying it's clear to me what happened between the couples, I'm saying it's clear to me what the article is stating.


Mark: I bet you steered clear of them......

Kuki October 4th, 2010 10:07 PM

Quote:

But I can tell you that on our sailing she pissed off a lot of people by being very obnoxious.
Ah, if only that was a good reason to throw people in the brig, there'd never be any lines at the buffet for me.

I can tell you several years ago I was on a cruise, met a couple at the blackjack table who were arguing quite a bit. Saw the woman the next day in the casino pretty badly bruised, and she told me her husband had beaten her, and she reported it to security. I checked with "the ship" and was told the husband had been put off in port that day. Then I happened to see him on the next sea day. I was SHOCKED to have been lied to, but also to see him allowed to freely use the ship. (He'd been moved to another cabin).

On a translatlantic sailing 2 years ago, I saw a fight break out in the dining room at a table of elderly people. Turned out (security told me), on man had tried to attack another at the table with a butter knife (For the remainder of the cruise I referred to him as "Jack the Butterknife). Again, I was shocked, when 2 days later he showed up in the dining room at the same table. I followed up and was told they "settled their differences".

I've also seen fights or at the least "pushing matches" between passengers occur on cruise, and nothing more was done that breaking up the fights, and separating the passengers.

Apparently the Captain's on those occassions didn't feel the offenses justified locking those parties in their cabins, or demanding they leave the ship.

it's interesting when "incidents" make the news, and then get discussed on the message boards.. particularly when people "take sides". No one will ever know the facts of the case because certainly the cruise lines won't report their side.

But, with the variety of incidents I myself have witnessed, I can say that I feel safe in saying the Captain doesn't always do the right thing.

And there's certainly plenty of times the passengers don't either, and it can go way beyond being obnoxious.

Trip October 4th, 2010 10:15 PM

Kuki I was thinking of the butter knife old man as well...surprisingly how that mas was not put off in port....oy:)

Funny, as we speak, I am watching a show about the QM2,and watching this very same Captain...

MarkNYC October 5th, 2010 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoozeman (Post 1321103)
Of course we don't know exactly what happened, but the Captain knows exactly what happened.

Insinuation is the word the reporter used. The Captain didn't insinuate anything, he made a statement to the couple as to why they were to be booted. He had to have mentioned the physical part as Sher admitted that much to the reporter.

I'm not saying it's clear to me what happened between the couples, I'm saying it's clear to me what the article is stating.


Mark: I bet you steered clear of them......

We tried our best to avoid them, but she seemed to like us. Despite our best efforts to pretend that we didn't see them, find a table in the lounge away from theirs, etc., she honed in on us a few times.
She told us about the supposed pedigree of her husband. She also told us she was a Broadway producer (which is substantiated) and that she is a reporter with the NY Times (which is not).
She was often very rude to staff and to other guests. I have never seen more eye-rolling than when she was around.

Lakers Fan October 5th, 2010 10:50 AM

She produced one Broadway show .She also claimed that her husband was an heir to the British crown .

lannp October 5th, 2010 12:37 PM

Just because you are staying in a Grill cabin doesn't make you any better than a non-Grill passenger. I witnessed this kind of behaviour in the Priority check-in line last year at Southampton. Although I was a Britannia-grade passenger with my Platinum status I check in with the Diamond status and Grills passengers. While waiting for an agent to become available "Queen's Grill" passengers announced we are Grill and pushed ahead of me and strode to the available agent before the Cunard rep and I could blink. The rep apologized profusely and I said it didn't matter and muttered "Just because you are Grill doesn't make you any better". The rep did not say a word but she gave me a big smile.

The thing I find interesting was that when they were allowed to stay on board, Bernie Warner took away their alcohol. To me that implies that this might be an alcohol-fueled problem.
Linda

Snoozeman October 5th, 2010 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lannp (Post 1321219)
Just because you are staying in a Grill cabin doesn't make you any better than a non-Grill passenger. I witnessed this kind of behaviour in the Priority check-in line last year at Southampton. Although I was a Britannia-grade passenger with my Platinum status I check in with the Diamond status and Grills passengers. While waiting for an agent to become available "Queen's Grill" passengers announced we are Grill and pushed ahead of me and strode to the available agent before the Cunard rep and I could blink. The rep apologized profusely and I said it didn't matter and muttered "Just because you are Grill doesn't make you any better". The rep did not say a word but she gave me a big smile.

The thing I find interesting was that when they were allowed to stay on board, Bernie Warner took away their alcohol. To me that implies that this might be an alcohol-fueled problem.
Linda

Yes, completely agree. She probably doesn't even recall what she did either.

My Aunt and cousin did a quick B2B last year on QM2 (over and back) just for the cruise experience. I have yet to sail on Cunard and it may not be what I have envisioned. I was hoping for the 'old school' quality and experience on board ship. I hope people such as this couple are rare as I really do want to try Cunard, I love the history of the line.

Paul Motter October 5th, 2010 01:03 PM

There was time a little over a year ago when we had three or four different incidents of people being booted off cruise ships by the captains for different reasons. One of them was a man who had gotten into an argument with the casino staff on the first day of a 10 day European cruise. The next day was the day at sea and he was confined to his cabin a whole day and the next morning he was put off the ship. This man had sobered up and already apologized to the Russian he had argued with within an hour of the incident. During the incident nobody was hurt.

This guy was not given a break, but I communicated with him personally a great deal after the cruise and I came to the inclusion that the incident had been a very big misunderstanding where he had been provoked into his behavior. When all was said and done this mistake cost him almost $10,000 in a lost cruise at the expense of keeping up with his family by flying to most of the port cities for the remainder of the cruise while his family remained on board.

All I am saying is that there are times when we don't know the whole story and that differences can be settled. As long as both parties agree to forgive and forget I actually personally believe that is the best way to proceed. Putting people off of cruise ships should never be done lightly since a cruise is often a very expensive investment.

Kuki October 5th, 2010 01:08 PM

Rude and obnoxious behavior certainly is not dictated or restricted by income or wealth. It crosses all lines, including cruise lines.;)

Cunard's "class system" carries a long and storied past. No doubt some issues are created by the "promises" made in their own promotions, which tell customers they can "expect" more when they pay more. They, themselves raise the passenger's expectations.


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