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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 25th, 2005, 08:24 AM
hydro-terp
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Default Blackjack play People Please...

Öif you plan on playing blackjack onboard do yourself and other players a favor and learn the basic strategy. It isnít hard to learn. Iíve transferred it to a table in an excel spreadsheet that has colored sections that are easy to follow. I will e-mail this to anyone who wants it. Go down to the nearest Best Buy and buy a cheap blackjack game from the computer game section, where they sell the ones that arenít in a box and are just the CD in a case, and go home and practice. I paid $6 for mine. I printed out the table and laminated it at Kinkos so that I could have it in front of me as I played. If you canít do that hitorstand (dot) net has an online game that tutors you in basic strategy play.

It is frustrating to others players when people plop down at a table and slow play and just do generally stupid things at the table. I estimate only about 30-40% of the players onboard followed BS. I saw a couple that was slobbering drunk go through at least $300 in two hours. You might as well walk outside and throw you money overboard if you donít learn the BS as the rules onboard are very favorable to the house. The BS wonít guarantee you anything other then that you will lose your money the slowest with it. If your lucky you might win some money to offset your bar tab. I made my $100 bankroll last like 6 total hours at the tables and actually doubled my money in a couple hours after an initial bad run of cards. I did then go on to lose my initial $100 but I consider it an entertainment fee. It is gambling after all so no harm no foul.

If youíre really serious about playing, either onboard or at a casino onshore, I suggest you learn to count cards. Its easier then you think and generally determines when the cards will be favorable for you and you should increase your initial bet to maximize you winnings. You must be able to follow the BS religiously without thinking so get that down pat before venturing any further. I use the Knock-Out blackjack system and with some practice you can get it down, although it takes a good bit of practice over time. Once you learn it though itís like riding a bike and you need only a little brush up to get you back into playing form. There are even a couple sites on the net for practicing this. Itís as simple as they come and compares favorably to more complicated and powerful systems. Yes I did lose money but it was my first trip since leaning the system and it was hard getting into favorable conditions on the cruise due to various circumstances and serious players know things fluctuate. Coincidentally the basic KO system is available free online so it wont cost you a penny to get it. It can be found at koblackjack (dot) com under KO rookie. Hint if you want to print out the KO rookie text right click on the text on that page then go into properties and cut and paste the actual URL into the web address box on you browser. You can then cut, paste, and print out the text. Or buy the book. Santa brought me mine.

I hope to see more people playing better blackjack on my next cruise.
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Old January 25th, 2005, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: Blackjack play People Please...

I agree with what your saying........might I add that bad play usually results in taking the whole table down. I know when this happens I'm supposed to move on.....but there are a limited number of BJ tables on the ship.
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Old January 25th, 2005, 05:32 PM
hydro-terp
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Default Re: Blackjack play People Please...

Yeah I was pretty peeved that so few tables were open. This on top of the single deck table having a $25 min. I could have ripped them a new one there. The house rules were really bad two. Dealer hits on a soft 17 and one card per hand after splitting aces. And this was on top of using 8 decks. I dont even want to know what the house adv was. We went to the western so there was no place to play onshore. That would have been more productive.
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Old January 27th, 2005, 12:13 PM
Margie Stinson
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Default Re: Re: Blackjack play People Please...

FYI: One card per hand when splitting aces is standard play in Las Vegas and any other casino I have been in. Hitting the soft 17 is definitely to the house's advantage and not good for the player. And yes, it is difficult to get up and move tables on a cruise because they are so few. I got into the habit of knowing who played BS and trying to get on a table with them. By the end of the cruise I usually have a good group that tries to get together. Does it make a difference? The pros say it doesn't make any difference over the long run what anyone at the table does, but we are not talking long run -- we are talking only a few days!

Margie
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Old June 1st, 2005, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: Blackjack play People Please...

Hello,

I would agree that knowledgeable people make the game better.

However...you come off a little pompous. Suggesting that people learn to count cards if they are serious....but then stating your intial $100 bankroll loss was ok, because it was an entertainment fee is a little hypocritical. Either your serious or play for fun. Which is it? Then you try to justify it all by saying it was your first time trying the new system and that the favorable conditions on the cruise, were not helping. BUT if you use BS and know how to play then over a .........................you had a good time right? I mean you didn't go on a cruise to gamble did you?
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 07:26 AM
hydro-terp
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Default Re: Blackjack play People Please...

My point being was that there are people who take the game of Blackjack serious and as you know there is probably no more then 2-4 tables open on a cruise ship at any given time and then the casino is only open certain times. I said if you want to be serious about playing you should learn to count. Are you not worthy to sit a table with me if you only know BS? No you sure are. I dont play games that I dont understand and if I staggered up to a craps table and done a bunch of stupid stuff to mess up the game and put the bad mojo on the players that wouldnt be very considerate of me would it?

Hypicritical with playing like 6 hours and losing $100? I think not. Play fluctuates and with the horrible odds on cruise ships and the limited numbers of tables to play I consider that somewhat of a success considering the conditions.

The paragraph about counting was not the point of the post. It was a postscript if you will for anyone who wants to take the next step. I have had numerious people contact me for copies of my BS strategy table and Ive gladly forwarded it to them. The point of the post was if you are going to gamble learn the game as a courtousy to other players. Its aint rocket science.

Jeez this post is how old?
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Old June 17th, 2005, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Blackjack play People Please...

Hello,


Jeez..this post is how old? Who cares how old it is, if it's the first time i have read or seen it.

i wasn't criticizing your $100 loss...i was criticizing your $100 bankroll. Which to me means you started with that amount or that was the amount you alloted for yourself if you are such a serious, understandable gambler. $100 for 6 hours of entertainment...good deal to me......no matter what the conditions....

Anyways...good luck in the future..after all we all need it occassionally...lol...
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Old August 15th, 2005, 02:11 PM
Lucky?
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Default Re: Blackjack play People Please...

What does BS mean?
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Old August 31st, 2005, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Blackjack play People Please...

Hello,

Basic Strategy
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Blackjack play People Please...

BS, Basic Strategy, is the mathematically correct way to play the game.
When you use this strategy, the house has a very small edge and over a period of time, your money WILL last you longer.
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Old September 12th, 2005, 04:38 PM
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Basic Strategy takes only a couple hours to learn, and even if you don't get into the subtleties of soft doubling and pair splitting, you can still improve your play tremendously. However, anyone who has spent enough time at the tables knows that a poor player does not affect how the cards fall, unless and until I push out a big bet and have it doubled. Then I get creamed.
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Old September 12th, 2005, 11:10 PM
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We, those of us who are experienced BJ players, need to understand that the casinos on the ships are not like the land based casinos where the experienced players play. Many people gamble for the first time on a cruise and make some rather idiotic calls, but it is their vacation also. I have completely paid for a 14 day cruise with my winnings from BJ, but I could have won more it people wouldn't take a hit an an 18 when the dealer upcard is a 5 or 6.

I agree that it doesn't take much to learn BS, but I also know that it is a risk I take on a cruise ship to be at a table with newbies. If I can't sit swing, I don't play on a ship, however, I will sit at any location at a land based casino. All you have to do is watch the table for a while and eventually the newbies will leave and the experienced players will occupy all spaces.

Jodi
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Old September 19th, 2005, 12:29 PM
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Back from PCL CB.

8 decks, fair to poor pen (~60-70%), few tables open = crowed conditions.

Really tough on an Advantage Player using 8 decks. Id count through 2-3 maybe 4 shoes before the count ever got favorable. And when it did newbies would eat up the cards playing poorly and send the count through the basement before it got to me. It was pretty painfull most, but not all, of the time.

Good news, doubled bank roll. Was actually up 2X before a bad streak of cards brought me back down.

BS will go a long way in BJ. Case in point, Id go through all those shoes not having a good count betting flat yet still eaking out some money.
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Old January 2nd, 2006, 11:17 PM
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One thing that I have learned over the years is that timing is everything. I have found that most of the 1st time gamblers lose all their money rather quickly. I stay off the tables for the first 3 days. After that most of the people left on the table know how to play the game. This is not written in stone, but from past experiences, I find it to be true.
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 02:14 PM
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A don't care how anybody else plays their hand as long as they do it at least semi-quickly. I get really frustrated at the players who stare at every hand as if they think if they stare long enough the spots will change. I also get frustrated at the ones who feel they must solicit the opinion of every other player at the table, the dealer, and the pit boss before making a decision. Just play the hand!

Learning Basic Strategy will definitely improve your odds of winning (or at least losing slower), however whether other players play good Basic Strategy or not will have no long-term effect on your winning or losing. It only seems like it does because you notice and remember the times that another player's bad play hurt your hand, but not the times when it helped. I just wish that everyone would learn Basic Strategy so that the game could move quicker and I wouldn't have to sit through watching one player slow down the whole game by making every hand the decision of a lifetime.

Counting cards works great on games with one or two decks, but will do you little good on the 6 and 8 deck shoes used by the cruiseships, especially since they burn between one to two decks of every shuffle.
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Old January 17th, 2006, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
I just wish that everyone would learn Basic Strategy so that the game could move quicker and I wouldn't have to sit through watching one player slow down the whole game by making every hand the decision of a lifetime.

Counting cards works great on games with one or two decks, but will do you little good on the 6 and 8 deck shoes used by the cruiseships, especially since they burn between one to two decks of every shuffle.
I found that after you spend enough time at the table and demonstrate to the dealer that you know BS he will almost play for you. He will give you a look or deal cards out until you've followed BS and doesnt waste time asking if you want to hit a 15 vs 7+ etc. This in iteself makes the game go faster and getting more hands played is whats its about if your a counter.

As far as counting it is a whole lot of work for 8 deck games. All of the cruises Ive been on used 8 decks. I think thats a surprise to many players. The end of the last cruise a bunch of us who got to know each other from playing, solid seasoned BS players, were standing back watching play. I mentioned the fact that they were using 8 decks and they didnt believe me and they ended up asking the dealer. Of coarse he replyed 8 to their surprise. Jumping from 6-8 decks really swings the odds into the casinos favor.

I bet I played close to 50 hands being at a disadvantage or even odds for every hand where I had the advantage. The only way for a counter to get ahead on 6 and 8 deck games is have a big bet spread. 1-8 for 6 deck and 1-10 for 8 deck. That means if you min bet is $5 then your max bet would be $40 with a 1-8 bet spread. You need a big bankroll to handle that.

There was a single deck game on RCCL with $25 min that I could have done well at if I had enough bankroll to weather a streak of bad cards but thats another story. With the crowded tables and limited time of operation, cruise ship casinos its really tough to get ahead at.

Man this thread just keeps popping back up from the dead every couple months.

R
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Old January 17th, 2006, 09:06 PM
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Yeah, the 8 deck games definitely does make it hard on the player. Here in California, some of the Indian casinos have tightened the odds even further by using an endless deck. They have this machine that continuously suffles 6 to 8 decks together so that the dealer never runs out. The game does move faster since you never have to wait for the dealer to shuffle, but counting is impossible and the odds stink. I expect the cruiseships will probably move to that in the near future.

I had the chance to play single deck BJ in Reno this past weekend. It's been years since I've seen a single deck game. I had forgotten how much difference it makes. Makes me never want to play on a cruiseship or in an Indian casino again!
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 03:16 PM
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Would you e-mail me a BS card as mentioned in your post?
c.leary@comcast.net

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Old September 20th, 2006, 04:58 PM
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Me too! Please!

figgorozco@aol.com.

Thank you very much!
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Old September 20th, 2006, 09:17 PM
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Boy a year and 8 months and counting and this thread keeps popping up.

Give me a day or two to get back in the office where I have the chart saved and I'll send one out.

R
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Old September 29th, 2006, 12:45 AM
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Boy, do I see a lot of misinformation here.
  • Bad play by others has no effect whatsoever on my play at blackjack -- it will as often set me up as it does spoil my hand.
  • Basic strategy, at minimum, is a must, true, but the house rules determine the house edge: can I double down on any two cards, or only 9-11; how many times can I split aces and pairs; do I have to hit soft-17? Some games aren't worth playing even with perfect basic strategy.
  • Your session bankroll should be 15X your minimum bet -- period! If you can't meet that standard, don't play.
  • You didn't 'double your money' if you eventually lost it all back later. Only what you walk away from the table with counts.

Cruise ships have captive audiences and no competition -- how good do YOU think the games are going to be?
Sure, I imagine there are folks who win in the casino during every cruise -- but they're probably not the serious gamblers, because the serious gamblers don't play there.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 01:01 PM
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TNTravler,

Try the Norwegian Cruise Line. They have great Blackjack rules. With perfect Basic Strategy play the house edge is reduced to .33 About as good as it gets with 6 decks. Will still probably lose, but you can play at the $10 table several hours a day during your cruise and finish with a loss of about $100 with average luck. The reason the line gives these great rules is that almost noone plays perfect strategy. I was on a cruise in Febuary on the Norwegian Star and saw noone else who was playing perfect strategy. And most players play was terrable. The house did very well with very good rules. At blackjack here in the UK the rules are not that good.

Charles

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Old October 13th, 2006, 10:13 AM
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I find blackjack boring. I used to play about 40 years ago when the game was single deck and card counting made sense. Today they have changed the rules to the point that BS with card counting requires team play to squeek any advantage. Then when you win they toss you out (bad in LV realy bad on a cruise).

The funny thing is that most players think that others who do not go with simple basic are exibiting poor play. The fact is unless you have been counting you do not know what the best stategy is at that moment in the game.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 05:47 PM
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Default Cruise Ship Blackjack -- AMEN!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNtraveler
Boy, do I see a lot of misinformation here.
  • Bad play by others has no effect whatsoever on my play at blackjack -- it will as often set me up as it does spoil my hand.
  • Basic strategy, at minimum, is a must, true, but the house rules determine the house edge: can I double down on any two cards, or only 9-11; how many times can I split aces and pairs; do I have to hit soft-17? Some games aren't worth playing even with perfect basic strategy.
  • Your session bankroll should be 15X your minimum bet -- period! If you can't meet that standard, don't play.
  • You didn't 'double your money' if you eventually lost it all back later. Only what you walk away from the table with counts.

Cruise ships have captive audiences and no competition -- how good do YOU think the games are going to be?
Sure, I imagine there are folks who win in the casino during every cruise -- but they're probably not the serious gamblers, because the serious gamblers don't play there.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 07:11 PM
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Bagologist,

The NCL does have very good rules. Dealing is done out of a shoe, so counting cannot be done. But playing perfect BS one is faced with a house edge of only 0 .33%. As good as it gets without counting. The expected loss with perfect BS and no counting is only $3.33 with each $1000 bet.

The reason the casino can give those rules is that almost no one plays perfect BS.

Charles
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 07:26 PM
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Counting cards is difficult to do right, and unless you get in right, your odds are as good just playing basic strategy well. And a lot less work. Remember, you're cruising for fun!
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Old December 15th, 2006, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffy88
Bagologist,

The NCL does have very good rules. Dealing is done out of a shoe, so counting cannot be done. But playing perfect BS one is faced with a house edge of only 0 .33%. As good as it gets without counting. The expected loss with perfect BS and no counting is only $3.33 with each $1000 bet.

The reason the casino can give those rules is that almost no one plays perfect BS.

Charles
tuffy,

Do you mean they use those constant autoshufflers? Otherwise I don't know what you mean by "Dealing is done out of a shoe, so counting cannot be done"
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Old December 19th, 2006, 04:35 PM
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Ive heard auto shufflers were tried but scrapped. Every cruise Ive been on was from a regular shoe and eight deck.

R
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Old December 19th, 2006, 05:40 PM
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Dealing on the ships I have been on have been out of an 8 deck shoe. It is just that with 8 decks counting does not give one enough of an edge to make it worthwhile. They used automatic shufflers on the Star last Febuary, but that was for the shuffle after the cut card was reached. Not after each hand.

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Old January 10th, 2008, 09:51 AM
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All the Carnival ships I've been on lately have the 8 deck auto shuffling machines......how would you ever be able to count cards with that?

On the theory that a person's poor play affects your wins....I've never heard anyone give the bad player an "attaboy" when they all win because of that player's bad playing. It's human nature to only notice when you lose.....my 2 cents on the subject.....
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