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cruise1313 November 7th, 2003 11:35 AM

Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
*********Copyrighted postings deleted***********

I want the original poster(s) to please post all about this incident here as it is very important and such an incident cannot be tolerated. I have to delete these copied postings as they are protected by the copyright of another website and we cannot violate that. Just make sure your posts are original and not copied from elsewhere.
Jim

BTW These people have violated Federal Law and should be criminally prosecuted as well as being sued in a civil court!

cruise1313 November 7th, 2003 11:40 AM


Kroooz-Cams November 7th, 2003 12:43 PM

Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
I was checking to see if anything had been posted here at Cruisemates. Thank you for taking the time to post this. Everyone should be aware of Royal Caribbean / Celebrity's policies on dealing with violent crimes onboard their ships. If you are attacked or raped or molested on a Royal Caribbean vessel it is best to ask to be locked up yourself, because Royal Caribbean will not detain the assailants while you are on the cruise. In this case the victim was in no way attracting nor deserved of the attack. It is not like a bar room brawl. He was viciously attacked by 4 passengers.

We need the cruiseline's assurances that they protect passengers from violent acts. That if a violent act is perpetrated onboard that they will take care of you onboard (ie medical expenses) and assist you in prosecuting the assailants when back onshore.

As of now they claim that medical expenses are the same as if you were in a bar onshore and had a fight. That you would be liable for your own medical. They notified the FBI of the incident and consider that their assistance in prosecuting the assailants. They cannot detain individuals who have committed violent acts onboard. It is not within their powers.

Write to them and ask them what they would do if you were involved in an incident? Then consider bookiing another cruiseline that cares.

jeff (aka Kroooz-Cams)

Rick November 7th, 2003 05:29 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
I am amazed this did not make mainstream news (???) Hate crime on a cruise ship did'nt make news??


Kroooz-Cams states......" If you are attacked or raped or molested on a Royal Caribbean vessel it is best to ask to be locked up yourself, because Royal Caribbean will not detain the assailants while you are on the cruise".........What? So what you are saying is I can commit a violent crime or endanger the ship and the Captain and security can not detain me or restrain me? Do you honestly believe that? Aboard that ship the Captain is all powerful and of course has the power and responsibility to take action to keep HIS ship and passengers safe. More to this story than a couple of posts are telling.

Kroooz-Cams..IMO I think it very irresponsible to make such condeming statements without providing some proof of your facts. Who at RCI explained their policy to you? Do you have any FIRST HAND knowledge of this incident? Do you believe every post you read is accurate? Let's get something other than "he said..she said" before we "trash" a Cruiseline based on what you "heard".



Post Edited (11-07-03 17:39)

Thomas November 8th, 2003 12:32 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Good post Rick!

Regards,
Thomas

LovesCruisin November 8th, 2003 06:02 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Rick,

I hate to spoil your morning, but Jeff was a witness to this most horrific crime. Please go check the website and then perhaps you will read a bit more about this most unfortunate hate crime. I have spoken to the eyewitness, who has also spoken to the FBI, US Attorney's office along with Senior Management at RCL.

RCL did drop the ball on this one, they freely admitted that they have never dealt with a hate crime of this type. Both victims (One the original person that was attacked, the other a friend - straight - trying to intervene) were injured, the perps were not detained, allowed to roam the ship on the last sea day. So you see Rick, all cruiselines DO NOT DETAIN those who commit vicious hate crimes on the high seas. There was a serious breakdown of communication between the ship and the home office, along with the FBI.

Rick I state to you, the next time you "TRASH" a person for bashing a cruiseline, perhaps its you that needs to get your facts straight. Sorry to tell you RCI did NOTHING for these folks when they were onboard, but are only now admitting this type of crime was new to them. No they did not detain the criminals. I for one will not go on another RCL ship until this hate crime is dealt with accordingly. I have emailed RCL also, and are still waiting for a reply. But I genuinely wouldn't feel a 3 day cruise on ANY RCL ship is a safe one.

LovesCruisin

Thomas November 8th, 2003 08:16 AM

Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
"Both victims (One the original person that was attacked, the other a friend - straight - trying to intervene) were injured,"........................lovescruisin'

What I read was both victims are gay, a man and a woman. Which is it?

The other thing which sticks out at me is that we are told to believe the attacks were unprovoked. Sorry, I haven't heard the story from the other folks and I wasn't there so I'm reserving my judgement.

And I can assure you I will buy a ticket on RCI whenever I find a cruise I want.

Regards,
Thomas

Kroooz-Cams November 8th, 2003 09:30 AM

Re: Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Thomas- does it really matter if the victim was gay or straight. They were attacked! Do different rules apply if the victim is straight?

This is an excerpt from the victim regarding a phone call with the managers of guest claims and customer relations at Royal Caribbean.

"Some of this is understandable but frustrating from a victim's point of view. They advised that they are not a legal authority and cannot technically "detain" them in a stateroom, etc. for even further legal reasons, etc. They did, however, on the second concern, admit that there was a breakdown in communication between security, guest relations, and me and my group members."

The second comment about the communication breakdown was that behind the scenes they were monitoring the assailants but did not let us know.

From many of your comments the only way you will be satisfied that any of this is true is by talking directly to Royal Caribbean and I urge you to do so. You were not there, I was. I would hate to have you be attacked to see these policies in action.

jeff

Rick November 8th, 2003 10:53 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
LovesCruisin..okay <G>...guess you should'nt cruise RCCL anymore. Enough of this. A few people here obviously have an agenda against RCCL and are putting their own "spin" on what happened, if anything. I shall speak of this no more.

Thomas....we leave on the 29th...cruise 30th wooooooohooooooooo. Eat your heart out!! lol


LovesCruisin November 8th, 2003 11:09 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
It amazes me that you two - on a Gay and Lesbian message board would put down those of us who want to inform the public about this horrific incident on Monarch of the Seas. I have cruised RCL along with Celebrity, but until I see action taken to safe guard ANY passenger, whether they are straight or gay I will not give them my business. I have had email contact with the eyewitness, and sorry - none of these attacks were provoked by anymeans. I guess by your take - both Rick and Thomas - it is ok to be called f-----gts and other such hateful names. It is ok to have your head stomped on, with high heels, its ok to be assaulted on a ship, its ok for the senior management not to take any pro-active stance on this type of hate crime. Its ok for a communications breakdown between the corporate office and the ship itself. Based on both of your comments, its alright for a cruiseline to allow those passengers who committed those crimes (BTW - they were two straight couples) have free reign on the ship - to stare down those they attacked.

Feel free gents to cruise on your RCL ship - I only hope and pray other low lifes like those four aren't on your ship. If they are, and commit a hate crime against any of you or your group - we will then see if RCL did anything positive. I only hope not as I am sure neither Jeff nor I would want to come back and say I told you so.

And just to let you know, I am straight - but a concerned enough citizen to want to alert others. Remember - someone from this board came over to the asking us to inform those on this board.

LovesCruisin

cruise1313 November 8th, 2003 11:36 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Thank you - Lovescrusin,

I am amazed at the different mood. Where is the compassion and support?

I have taken 40 cruises including RCL, NCL, CCL, Princess, and others. It pains me to know that this type of action could happen, and obviously did.

Kroooz-Cams November 8th, 2003 11:39 AM

Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Rick and Thomas-
YES, I do have an agenda! and that agenda includes your safety as well. Pressure on the cruiseline will ensure policy enactment to deal with these kind of crimes.

Remember those that keep their heads buried in the sand leave their *** exposed.

jeff

Jim Bragg November 8th, 2003 08:06 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Assaults should not be tolerated on anyone and cruiselines should take action whenever it occurs. This is the first time I have heard of it not being done. I will not dispute what you are saying if it is first-hand knowledge and I don't think the others are, they did not know that you apparently witnessed this incident. Nobody here will condone physical attacks on others.
Jim


anita kennedy November 8th, 2003 08:45 PM

Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
You see I have told these kids who walk by themselves it is no always safe and now here the proof. I had heard about this happening to a teenage girl on the Conquest this summer but didn't get details. This is a tragedy that should not be tolerated. They should have a system in force to handle criminals.

Rick November 8th, 2003 10:30 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
anita kennedy......They should have a system in force to handle criminals.

What makes you think they don't :)?


anita kennedy....I had heard about this happening to a teenage girl on the Conquest this summer but didn't get details.

Why spread rumours that you know nothing about?


Chuck Palm November 9th, 2003 08:53 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
David and I will be on the Monarch 12-22. This whole thing is troublesome for me. I wish I knew who to contact at R.C.C.L. to ensure that this kind of problem will be handled properly in the future.

I have dear friends who's teenage son was put under house arrest on a cruise ship on the Mexican Riviers. He and some friends brought drugs onto the ship. The rest of the cruise they rightly had to stay in their cabin with a guard at the door. This is "proper" procedure when people are breaking the law.

This captain was not on top of things or else just didn't care.

anita kennedy November 9th, 2003 10:04 AM

Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Rickl: Thought we were not suppose to make personal attacks on this board. I feel that I was personally attacked for offering my personal thoughts on this subject.

I don't think they have a procedure for this as according to the writer nothing was done.


RICK: I am not spreading rumors, I read it on one of these boards.

Do you have fun contradicting people on these boards....or picking on people for their thoughts if they don't match yours.

pinecone November 9th, 2003 11:06 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Let people post their opinions without attcking them personally!

I'm not going to mention names, but I feel a few of you feel it is your duty to belittle and discredit any poster that offers a different point of view than your own. Show some compassion and kindness.

Harry Martin November 9th, 2003 11:46 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Kudos, Pinceone!

Harry

Rick November 9th, 2003 12:33 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Anita....I really don't think what I said was a personal attack on you but obviously I offended you and for that I am sorry.


anita kennedy November 9th, 2003 12:47 PM

Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
apology accepted and when you put some one's name directly in the post and say something negative that is the way I take it. But I am over it now. To each his own.

Rick November 9th, 2003 12:51 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Thank you Anita.


JT November 11th, 2003 02:57 AM

Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Morning........
Would you or someone tell me where I can read about this incident that is being referred to here in all these posts?! I was on the Grand Princess for Halloween and they frankly screwed it up in my opinion. They gave everyone the option of "formal or
costume." My partner and I did costume; the majority went formal and I felt like an idiot.
Though, have to admit, the looks from some people were hysterical. But back to my main request........I want to read about this incident so I need some info on where I can find some reading about it. Thanks
JT

Thomas November 11th, 2003 12:50 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
"Thomas- does it really matter if the victim was gay or straight. They were attacked! Do different rules apply if the victim is straight?...................Jeff

No, Jeff, it doesn't matter at all. What does matter is that the "reported" facts are consistent from post to post otherwise doubts about the occurences creep in.

Call me the doubting Thomas if you wish, but my posts on this subject are consistent in content in that I will not blindly believe everything I read. And on this subject I'm only reading from the victims. Please don't ask me to pass judgement on somebody or some company when I was not a witness to the event nor can I even question all the parties involved face to face.

I think any attack on any person should result in penalty. Just don't ask me to administer penalty upon someone or some company based on a written statement alone.

Regards,
Thomas

Adam09 November 16th, 2003 01:40 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
I am neutral in this incident. If legally RCI cannot detain the assassins, they can't. There is however no proof that they can't. Maybe they can and they were just confused. I certainly would not feel safe knowing that two criminals were running around my ship.

Both sides of this story have attacked the other.

LovesCrusin: both Rick and Thomas - it is ok to be called f-----gts and other such hateful names. It is ok to have your head stomped on, with high heels, its ok to be assaulted on a ship.

Neither Rick nor Thomas ever expressed any of these viewpoints! I highly doubt that they are homophobic. Now, that is an offensive message!

Rick: Kroooz-Cams states......" If you are attacked or raped or molested on a Royal Caribbean vessel it is best to ask to be locked up yourself, because Royal Caribbean will not detain the assailants while you are on the cruise".........What? So what you are saying is I can commit a violent crime or endanger the ship and the Captain and security can not detain me or restrain me? Do you honestly believe that? Aboard that ship the Captain is all powerful and of course has the power and responsibility to take action to keep HIS ship and passengers safe. More to this story than a couple of posts are telling.

Rick insulted the viewpoint of "Krooz-Cams" who was there firsthand. It would have certainly been better to politely question.

Let's forgive RCI and put this behind us! I am sure that Carnival, Princess, or any other line would have behaved the same way.

Adam

Celebrity Galaxy- 7/98
Celebrity Zenith- 7/99
Rhapsody of the Seas- 12/99
Voyager of the Seas- 8/00
Celebrity Millennium- 6/01
Radiance of the Seas- 10/01
Explorer of the Seas- 12/01
Celebrity Millennium- 4/02
Celebrity Constellation- 6/02
Celebrity Summit- 8/02
Radiance of the Seas- 8/02
Norwegian Star- 11/02
Norwegian Dawn- 12/02
Celebrity Infinity- 4/03
Radisson Seven Seas Voyager- 6/03
Crystal Serenity- 8/03
Monarch of the Seas- 10/03
Serenade of the Seas- 10/03
Mariner of the Seas- 12/03
Queen Mary II- 6/04

Miscellaneous ship visits:
The World- 12/02
Legend of the Seas- 11/03

Thomas December 5th, 2003 10:45 AM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
You seem to think the modification Jim made was somehow back pedaling and covering himself. I seem to think it's admitting an overly aggressive statement he wanted to correct.

I think we've all made statements we wish we could've had back. If you haven't then congratulations.

Have a great cruise.

Regards,
Thomas

Rick December 8th, 2003 05:20 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Good news!!!!! I made gay friends aboard the Millie! Seriously it was a great cruise. Lot of elderly pax (70 -100). Larry and Todd from Atlanta, whom we made friends with, said there was a group of 500 gays from NY. No problems I know of except a few looks and a few whispered words. Funny story ( I think)....I was playing the very big and very loud nickle slot Party Slot machine in the Millie casino...when you get 3 party symbols, the machine plays YMCA and gives a bonus play...Todd and Larry were behind me watching me play....Deb was sitting a few feet away waiting for me at a poker slot. When the machine played YMCA, Todd , Larry and I sang along. A couple sitting beside my wife whispered to her.."those 3 men are gay". lol Great cruise and I found out that I am gay!


Chuck Palm December 8th, 2003 07:46 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
Rick,We knew it all the time....

;-)

Post Edited (12-08-03 19:47)

GTF December 9th, 2003 11:34 AM

Re: Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
That disco slot machine was the gayest thing on the boat!

And a minor correction...there were 240 gay men on the millie 11/30-12/7 with pied piper. they are NY-based, but most of the group was not from NY.

Harry Martin December 9th, 2003 12:01 PM

Re: Ugly incident - Monarch Halloween cruise
 
LOL Rick -- too funny! Great story.

Heck, I would rather hear YMCA than that stupid "Wheel ... of .... Fortune" over and over.

Harry


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