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-   -   Is it time to stop calling it FOD ??? (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/gay-lesbian-cruising/370412-time-stop-calling-fod.html)

PaulJude December 31st, 2009 04:26 PM

Is it time to stop calling it FOD ???
 
I have a confession to make. Everything I see a reference to "FOD" meetings, it brings up both frustration and sadness. The sadness is about gay men still holding on to old,closeted and unhealthly behaviors that speak to believing we have something shameful to hide about our lives. I personally don't want to meet "friends of Dorothy". I want to meet out and proud gay men who ask for meetings that speak to who we truly are.......can you imagine any other group labeling their meetings in clandestine phrases? I can marry my partner but still have to speak in code? Enough. You may want your meeting listed FOD but I'm asking for a meeting space for GLBT members to meet together on my cruise.

Triton January 1st, 2010 08:10 PM

That's an interesting question. There is something to be said about our history as gay men and women. No, we don't have to use those hidden terms any longer, but I don't think many gays look at themselves as "closeted", nor use that term to hide who they are now.

I think it's more of a rite of passage for other gays, and maybe they are proud to use it.

If we did change the FOD...what would we call ourselves? Personally, I would like one that incorporated gay women and transgender too, not just the gay men.

BTW, "Friends of Bill W" is another clandestine name and they meet regularly. Personally, I like "Friends of Dorothy" and have no shame, closeted feelings or otherwise regarding them. :D

PaulJude January 7th, 2010 01:18 PM

Friends if Bill W is from a anonymous program. The fellowship is based around members being "protected" from non-alcholics knowing their status and can reveal to whomever they choose. That arguement almost supports my point.....why choose a model based on a "disease" like addiction. What about simply calling it a GLBT meeting? Simple, straightforward and clear.

Fern January 7th, 2010 08:15 PM

Princess changed to GLBT quite a while ago. As a friend of GLBT's I agree that FOD should be "retired". Actually, I think that all the meetings should be able to be retired and everyone just be "people". I hope I live long enough to see that happen :). All of us as friends...

schmerd January 8th, 2010 01:48 PM

Lighten up folks
 
Come on, no one really thinks that "FOD" is a way to hide being gay anymore. It's just a fun tongue-in-cheek moniker. The whole point is just to have fun, so just embrace the campiness of the name and enjoy meeting new people.

Ron n Jon January 9th, 2010 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmerd (Post 1266863)
Come on, no one really thinks that "FOD" is a way to hide being gay anymore. It's just a fun tongue-in-cheek moniker. The whole point is just to have fun, so just embrace the campiness of the name and enjoy meeting new people.

The use of FOD is also in rememberance to when the code was needed. It is no longer needed but the memory lingers on...and as it should!

We'll stop using the term FOD's when the world stops using terms like SUV's

huskyital January 10th, 2010 02:53 PM

Well, friends of Bill are listed for AA members.
I think there are Friends of someone for gamblers...
so this is not a great slight.

Triton January 10th, 2010 05:52 PM

It's history, and history can be viewed in a positive light. How about the pink triangle and black triangle that I still see in many shop windows and vehicles here in the Castro? The pink triangle and black triangle were issued by the Third Reich to gay men and lesbians during the time of Concentration Camps.

Or how about the yellow star Jews were made to wear? Still many have this yellow star tattooed on their person, just as we see the triangles. It was an awful time in history, but many are proud.

I like the Friends of Dorothy. It is slang, just as the word, "Queen" is...but as one posted mentioned, it was code and is our cherished history. Its origins are from WWII and Dorothy Parker.

Has anyone read, "Coming out Under Fire"? For the younger gay and lesbian folks who were not around during Stonewall, or shortly thereafter, or have no memory of our path as proud men and women, should read this - or at the very least watch the DVD.

MiamiSpartan February 12th, 2010 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmerd (Post 1266863)
Come on, no one really thinks that "FOD" is a way to hide being gay anymore. It's just a fun tongue-in-cheek moniker. The whole point is just to have fun, so just embrace the campiness of the name and enjoy meeting new people.

This.
Just enjoy the gatherings with your new friends.

EUHunter February 13th, 2010 03:30 PM

We were glad to find the Friends of Dorothy on our very first cruise - we had no idea such a group existed and when we saw it listed in our daily newspaper we were not even sure it was exactly what we thought it would be ... but how glad we were to find a group of friendly guys who welcomed us on our first voyage. And we are old enough to remember Stonewall ;-)

joeyanddavid February 28th, 2010 04:31 PM

well said...I have always been a firm believer that Labels.. should only be used to confirm nutrients.

Ron n Jon March 25th, 2010 03:42 PM

[QUOTE=Triton;1267226]...I like the Friends of Dorothy. It is slang, just as the word, "Queen" is...QUOTE]

What most of us forget is that the word "Gay" was a code word just as was "Friends Of Dorothy". If you wanted to ask a fellow homosexual if a certain person in the room was in fact also a homosexual you wouldn't blurt that out in public. One would ask "Is he gay?" But when the word "Gay" began to be well understood in the general public as representing homosexuality (and who would use the word in it's original denotation today...) other means of reference had to be found. We believe that the use of Friends Of Dorothy was not only pertaining to the icon Judy Garland as Dorothy in the Wizard Of Oz but a rather clever substitute for "Gay". Personally I never did like the word "Gay" for it hardly represented my life of turmoil when I was coming out of the closet. How fortunate that we or at least some of us are free to be who we are with the full protection of the law. The use of the wording "Friends Of Dorothy" is now an openly used expression of who we are and is in a way a tribute to the struggle of how we got to where we are today.

johnthed0g March 25th, 2010 04:43 PM

As a straight man I have to explain this term to the less enlightened members on other cruise forums. None of my business but I rather like the term. I explained it tongue in cheek once by saying it was a society of men who prefer each others company & share a common love of musicals.....

REALgetaway April 30th, 2010 03:53 PM

since this is going to be our first cruise ever in OCT. 2010.. I was surprised to find a FOD or any organized GLBT gathering of any kind on a cruise ship. I had heard about all gay or all Lesbian cruises.. but never thought a mainstream cruise line would offer regular meetings. cool though.

as for the FOD name/label. It's cute and campy at the same time.. not the name I would have used, but I'm not going to dislike it for it's historical meaning and references.

Although, i do understand that today's younger GLBT individual's may not like it much. might be to dated and out of touch with today's modern lifestyle.

What other name could or should be used I guess is the question we should ask? what name/word represents all gay/bi/trans people? :confused:

lfivepoints69 May 21st, 2010 03:07 PM

What is this term 'Friends of Dorothy'?

lfivepoints69 May 21st, 2010 03:10 PM

I think that it is safe to say that 99% of gay people under the age of 65 have never heard of this term 'friends of Dorothy'. It sounds really stupid. I'm not clear what it means but it may be even worse that the awkward, offensive, vague, redundant, and nonsensical 'GLBT'. If we do have social gatherings targeted to gay families and individuals, let's just use the standard and normal adjective 'gay'.

lfivepoints69 May 21st, 2010 03:12 PM

I really don't think many people, gay or heterosexual, have heard of this term 'FOD'.

lfivepoints69 May 21st, 2010 03:16 PM

'GLBT' is NOT simple, straight-forward, or clear. It seems to cobble together different, unrelated groups in a vague and awkward manner. I believe it stands for gay, lesbian, bi, or transgender. Why would a group based on gender identity be included in a group based on sexual orientation? Why include the lesbian when you already have the word gay which includes all people of both sexes? Just use the term gay or, to make sure heterosexuals know that they are welcome, gay-friendly.

lfivepoints69 May 21st, 2010 03:21 PM

Obviously, gay people are no more likely to like musicals than heterosexuals (I certainly don't know any gay people who like them and I know many heterosexuals who do). That shows one problem with the term although the biggest problem is that almost no one, gay or heterosexual, knows what this term means.

lfivepoints69 May 21st, 2010 03:32 PM

Just use the word 'gay'. It's simple and unambiguous.

Of course it does not include transgender people, who are overwhelmingly heterosexual, but why would they by associated with or want to attend a gay event any way?

REALgetaway May 21st, 2010 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfivepoints69 (Post 1293077)
I think that it is safe to say that 99% of gay people under the age of 65 have never heard of this term 'friends of Dorothy'. It sounds really stupid. I'm not clear what it means but it may be even worse that the awkward, offensive, vague, redundant, and nonsensical 'GLBT'. If we do have social gatherings targeted to gay families and individuals, let's just use the standard and normal adjective 'gay'.


You bring up some good points.. but I also think you might be reading to much into it also. I presume you are younger than say... 50 yrs or so. I don't exactly know the historical reference that the Friends Of Dorothy comes from.. but the older folks seem to know better than I do. Even though I am in my mid 40's and gay, i don't know all historical gay references either.

From what I have been told the acronym GLBT began some time in the 80's or 90's. as a way to include all different sexual identities withing the gay/lesbian community. It's all inclusive. Later Q was added, so it was changed LGBTQ which stands for questioning. Again to be all inclusive and politically correct. ;)

I as a gay man have no problem with being called gay, but does it encompass every sexual identities?

I don't think (FOD) it is stupid as you say.. it's campy.. being campy is something that younger people don't quite get I think. It's a way of mocking something that is cheesy or campy and having fun while doing it.

I would support changing the name to something else, but in the mean time, the FOD name doesn't bother me at all. :D

Ron n Jon May 22nd, 2010 04:05 PM

Not all Gay people are in fact gay, if one judges the imput into this thread. We are homosexuals. So call ourselves homosexuals. If we are not comfortable with the word, find another but if you are not into codes, then gay, Friends Of Dorothy or B L T or whatever won't do.

But to me, being known as a friend of someone or something is not such a bad handle to live with...I can think of worse.

REALgetaway May 22nd, 2010 08:21 PM

Lets call it friends of Ralph rofl


Ron n Jon, i think "most" gay people would rather be called gay than homosexual. ;)

I don't know any young gays that would want to be called homosexual. maybe queer, but not homosexual.

I don't know, no word is going to work for everyone. then some people will complain that they don't like a certain term or label. there is no way to win this argument.

how about friends of Pat? Pat could be male or female :p

Ron n Jon May 23rd, 2010 09:25 AM

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

We could think of no better title for listing our social meetings aboard ship than "Friends Of Oscar Wilde". Who better to represent us in his history of persecution and banishment only to historicaly return to the annals of literacy and social vindication

mspurlock May 24th, 2010 09:00 PM

Friends of Dorothy
 
I am 53 and have been around the cruising block for awhile. There are still some people who like to live discreet lives, due to business and family issues. It is their choice and they should not be criticized for it.

We have only been on mainstream cruises, and were so thrilled to discover a "Friends of Dorothy" meeting onboard these cruises. We have met some of the most lovely people from all over at these meetings. "Discretion is the better part of valor". It is nice to get together with other people with the same interests and lifestyles. Just like it would be good to get together as doctors, or lawyers, or collegiate associations. You share things in common. It's nice to know other people on the cruise you can have pleasant conversation with without the raised eyebrows due to who your partner is. Inclusion and camaraderie help life be less stressful and secluded.

When I was younger, we used "Friends of Dorothy" when checking people out in mainstream life. You could easily say, "I think he is a friend of Dorothy" to your friend out loud and only they would know what you were saying. Having codes is not a problem, Southern Belles certainly have a very developed one (read The Southern Belle Primer by Marilyn Swartz.) Having codes is a way of being polite in public without letting "all your business" be known.

No matter what the name is, I still believe that these meetings help you meet others who are liked minded and may lead to lifelong friendships. If you don't want to be social and go to the meetings, don't go! No one will be upset.

Marc

Ron n Jon May 25th, 2010 04:39 PM

We have been reminded that should we change the designation of our social get togethers aboard ship to "Friends Of Oscar Wild", think of the fun we could have bringing along our attic stored paintings to sell off at the Art Auction...

johnthed0g May 25th, 2010 05:12 PM

The "Oscars"....you could all come up with amusing quotes??? like...
Woman in street..." Hello Oscar, you invited me to dinner last week" Oscar.." & did you come?"

fr8cub July 10th, 2010 02:34 PM

I have to say, that I'm 45 and on my first cruise I didn't know what FOD was, but as soon as I saw it on the daily patter, I knew what it was. Even though I had never heard that term used before.
Now they have changed it to GLBT. I was looking for FOD and was so disappointed that they no longer had FOD meetings. Only after looking a little closer to the patter, I saw GLBT. Dah, then the bells went off. :confused:
Basically, it doesn't matter what they put it under to me, I will attend either one. I like to meet all others FOD, GLBT.

Surfguyxxx1 July 12th, 2010 07:16 PM

We've been cruising for years now and have been together for over 20 years. We are not the typical gays who have to make a scene where ever we go. We like to hang out, have a martini with who ever is there at the bar and strike up a conversation. There is/was never an issue.

We went to a FOD one time and were saddened by who was there. Not the cute boys from cabin #6582 who liked to workout and solo on their time alone or the lesbian couple from #8632 who liked to enjoy themselves; sometimes with others and sometimes alone. I still keep in contact with both of them.

No matter what cruise you go on, you are going to meet other "gays". It is a certainty. So, no FOD for this guy. I have more fun on my own.

REALgetaway July 12th, 2010 09:10 PM

Well, i'm sure some gay men or lesbians would choose not to participate in FOD gathering.. which is sad really. one of the things we have in common is our same sex sexuality.. sure not the only thing we have in common of course.

i'm amazed frankly how some gays can be standoff-ish toward other fellow gays. I know not every gay person gets along with other gays or lesbians.. but at least say hi or strike up a converstation to let them know you are also on the cruise.

I hope that won't be the case on our cruise in Oct. I would really enjoy meeting some fellow gays or lesbians on board the ship. We are a very low key 20 yr couple also, but if your gaydar is working, you'll have no problem identifying us :p


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