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  #1 (permalink)  
Old October 3rd, 2003, 04:18 PM
Gary S
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Default Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Tipping/Gratuities.

To tip or not to tip, this is the ever-pressing question on the minds of so many people, most especially Holland America passengers.

Donít know about the rest of you, but I understand their policy very well; crystal clear as a matter of fact.

Here, let me further clarify how I interpret their policy on tipping:


We pay our employees enough money to work on our lovely ships. However, if you feel the need to extend a gratuity to any person or persons you feel deserves it, then do so. But, unlike other cruise lines that automatically add tips to drinks or to your onboard accounts, and non-discretely place white envelopes in your cabin prior to the final evening, we at HAL feel this is improper. We firmly believe our passengers have paid a sufficient amount of money to cruise with us and therefore, there is no need to burden our guests by soliciting more money.


I for one donít buy this made-up notion from those who allege to be so confused and bewildered by HALís policy of no tipping required. What more is there for you to identify with; tipping is not required. Why is it so terribly difficult for you to come to terms with this concept?

Youíre reading far too much into it, and not only confusing yourself, but many others. Stop it, will you!

The assumption that one ďmustĒ leave a tip is ludicrous, in my opinion. Iím not cheap by a long shot, and I truly believe most of you arenít as well, but Iíll be a cold day in hell before someone else tells me how much of a gratuity I should leave. Most especially after having forked over a few thousand bucks of my hard earned money.

Other cruise lines try to force-feed this practice on their passengers. Why? Because society thinks itís the right and just thing to do. Ha ha ha, not me buck-o!

Do us all an act of kindness, would you please; just face the fact that tipping isnít required on HAL vessels. And for the love of God, stop trying to convince yourself otherwise.
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Old October 4th, 2003, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Frankly, I agree with GARY S.

Actually, if the service is poor or lacking it is not required or justified on ANY cruise line.

We have always tipped well on HAL because of the great service we have experienced. jlk
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Old October 4th, 2003, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Gary is right on. Do we expect a restaurant to tell us whether or not to tip waitspeople and how much we need to leave. I would expect if you are mature enough to book a cruise that you would have enough sense to determine if someone who had waited on you for a week or 2 or 3 or more deserved to be rewarded for their efforts. I for one applaud Holland for treating us as adults. BJ
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Old October 4th, 2003, 05:00 PM
Gary L Rounds
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Default Re: Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Purely a marketing ploy to make HAL "appear" roughly $80-100 less expensive than its competition. A shame and a sham.
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Old October 4th, 2003, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Sniff, sniff, do I smell a Troll???
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Old October 5th, 2003, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

bj: could be! this seems like "beating a dead horse" to me. Hasn't this been discussed ad nauseum before on this board? Think you're on to him.
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Old October 5th, 2003, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

"An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish."



I see no reason to call Gary a Troll, he is starting a thread that has been on this board before, If you can not find Fault with his statement then there is no reason you should call him a Troll. You should be rebutting his Logic not making personal attacks against Him

Barry.

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Old October 5th, 2003, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

i for one dont know how gary knows how well the hal crew is paid----if he can cite specific dollar amounts and cruise line comparisions i will more then happy to read them. to me the service on a ship is equated to service in a restaurant -- do you ask the server if they are paid more then minimum wage -do you ask if they get free meals and then use this info to decide how much to tip them??????????

i go aboard a hal ship expecting to tip and only 2 things can happen on that ship either i will get excellent service or not and i will adjust my tips accordingly --but i will tip

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Old October 5th, 2003, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

I see no reason that some of you people have to decide that everyone has to TIP as you see fit, not as HAL has told you to.
So that all of you can read this again I will post HAL's TIPPING POLICY.

" "Tipping Not Required" Policy

Exceptional service is part of the Holland America cruise experience. Because you are our guest, it is our goal to make sure you receive the finest service possible. Our "tipping not required" policy ensures that the professional and gracious service you receive on board is truly sincere; that we are dedicated to providing the most relaxed cruise vacation, not simply providing service in return for tips. You are free, however, to extend monetary recognition if you wish-it's entirely up to you. (Company policy prohibits us from suggesting how much.) "



Gary is right, and as I can see there is not much else to be said about it, unless you want to look like the fool who says that they know better then HAL on their own Policys.

Barry

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Old October 5th, 2003, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Which Gary are you talking about here Barry??? We have Gary S. who I agree with and then we have Gary L. Rounds who, in my humble opinion, is a troll...I see no reason why I have to justify my opinion to you are anyone....
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Old October 6th, 2003, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

I've made a few posts reguarding this topic a few times...But I'm begining to relize the english language must be very hard to undersatand. "NO TIPPING REQUIRED" I just can't believe that little phrase is so hard to understand. Maybe they should spell it out per vadem.." If you would like to tip then tip If not then don't it is not mandatory" Opps I better not use "MANDATORY"as people will not unstand that as they don't understaned "REQUIRED" But in reality it comes down to your own personal feelings on the matter If your a tipper you'll tip if your not you won't Hope ya'll have a great day...

HappyCruzin.......Rick
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Old October 6th, 2003, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Is tipping "Mandatory" on any cruise? Nobody ever twisted my arm to fill the envelopes they leave in the cabins.

I do use them and tip but never felt I had to.

I think they include tips at the bars however but I don't drink.
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Old October 6th, 2003, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

HAL's policy is indeed Tipping Not Required. Tipping isn't ever required anywhere for any service, unless it's include it in the cost, or added on to the cost.

HAL does pay their employees slightly more than the cruise lines do. However, without the addition of gratuities, they are still making very little. And though tipping isn't required, it's certainly expected by the staff on HAL.

Offering gratuities for services rendered is in the nature of the service industry. While it may not be the best answer, if the full cost of labor was added to the cost of meals in restaurants, baggage handling at hotels, and service on ships, the cost of these items to the consumer would increase considerably.

We basically live in a user pay society. The justification is pretty simple. People generally don't want to subsidize things they don't use, that other people do.
Perfect example is cruise lines that include wine or alcohol in the cost of the cruise. Do those who don't drink want to help share the cost of those who do?
I'd guess that the when making the calculation of the average for consumption the cruise line will err on the high side, to assure they are making a profit... and thus a higher price than you would pay if you're paying for what you consume.

No question there's a certain civility in not having to pay as you go for drinks and service. However there's an additional cost involved as well.

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Old October 6th, 2003, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

PC your absolutly right about tipping not being "MANDATORY" on any cruise ...that I'm aware of......I just used that trying to make a point....and I think Kuki hit the nail on the head.....Well done Kuki...And like I posted before.... If people feel they got good service they will give that person/persons a fair tip whether there is or is not a a policy on tipping. And yes there are the people who will not tip no matter what....So in closing all I have to say is do what YOU feel is right......Happy Cruzin...Rick
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Old October 6th, 2003, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

"HAL does pay their employees slightly more than the cruise lines do. However, without the addition of gratuities, they are still making very little. And though tipping isn't required, it's certainly expected by the staff on HAL."

I have never seen the tipping being expected, and by saying this your are telling us that the HAL Tipping Policy is WRONG??

Also HAL pays it Employees very well for the Home Country they live in, maybe not as well as you are use to living in this Great Country, but more then they would make at home without the tips, and that is why most of them keep on coming back to work for HAL after their 6 month contract.

And for your info on our last 7 day cruise that we just got back from, I spent more then $500.00 in tips, and we do not drink, just because of the great service that we received.


Barry



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Old October 6th, 2003, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Barry... I'm saying HAL's policy is accurately no different from any of the mass market lines. Tips are not required on any of them!

The do offer suggested amounts, and some even automatically charge them to your onboard accounts. However, the choice is still yours. You can give as much, or as little as you like. Even on those ships using the auto-tipping, you can have those tips removed entirely if that's your choice.

The only thing HAL does which is different is not overtly solicit tips, or suggest amounts.
But the service staff on HAL do expect to be tipped for good service, and are disappointed if they aren't tipped.

If HAL actually paid their service staff equivelant dollars to the cruise lines that include tips in the fare, then I'd praise them. However the fact is the service staff need to rely on receiving tips to come near to those numbers, and HAL knows it.

Their written policy seems to stand out as different from the other cruise lines. The onboard end result is really more similar than it is different.

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Old October 7th, 2003, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

I do not, nor will I ever, believe in tipping just because itís a long-established tradition, unlike many others. My motto: If you want a gratuity from me, youíve got to earn it; donít automatically expect it.

Why is it the publicís responsibility, to subsidize the remaining portion of service personís income? Itís almost as if weíre obligated to do so? This is an indecorous cruise line policy and needs to stop. They donít work for me (directly); someone else employs them.

People going into service driven employment, know or should know, theyíll be paid considerably less than other industries. Instead of force-feeding a ridiculous society driven trend upon consumers, why donít the ďbig suitesĒ take a 10-20 percent pay cut, and take that extra income/revenue and pay their employees a decent and respectable salary. Now that makes sense to me.

What really gets my blood boiling: Restaurants that automatically incorporate a 15-20 percent gratuity in your check, just because itís their policy for tables of 6 or more. What justifies anyone to judge the quality of service I received? Only the patron knows the answer to that question. I tip based upon my own personal guidelines, not what someone else thinks or believes.

Most establishments are really good about leaving it up to the customer, but there are those who will fight to the death when it comes to tips. And some will even add it to your bill, if youíre paying by credit card, after youíve left the establishment. I get wind of this sneaky little ploy, and immediately contact the credit card company and have them remove it (just the tip portion).

Point and case: While attending a school-sponsored seminar in London, England, some restaurant decided to circle and underline that portion of the bill which read, ďtip not includedĒ. That idiot server received nothing from me, even though the service was good. I told the manager that if he wanted his service person to receive a tip, he should provide it, because it sure as heck wasnít coming from me. What a complete yoyo!

Point being: You and only you should decide what to leave, if anything. And cruise lines should refrain from suggesting or even recommending gratuity amounts to passengers, itís just plain tacky.
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Old October 18th, 2003, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Well here goes nothing! Another word for tips is "bribery after the fact". Some of us tip generously and others do not-so be it. I have taken and I will take on my upcoming Veendam cruise on 10/25 three 60 minute prepaid phone cards. I distribute same to my room steward (because I always have a special request),my waiter, and the hard-working asst. waiter at the BEGINNING of the cruise as a kind of "thank you in advance for your service". I will also tip accordingly at the end of the cruise. Do I have to--NO, do I want to-ONLY if the service justifies it! Think about it-what does the crew do when they hit a Port-go straight for the telephones!! The cards themselves only cost $4 and change and you can consider that part of the tip or in addition to the tip. Incidentally, I really have gotten better service than other people at the table or from the same room steward as my neighbor next door........Works for me.
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Old October 18th, 2003, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

FIRick
What do you mean by this?

"I will also tip accordingly at the end of the cruise."


Barry

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Old October 21st, 2003, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

"The cards themselves only cost $4 and change and you can consider that part of the tip or in addition to the tip."

Try leaving a phone card at your local restaurant as part of the tip. Oh yeah, that'll go over real well.....

If you want to present a phone card over and above what would be considered an adequate or good tip, OK, I guess, though I detest front-end bribes...er....tips....but I think the onboard staff would prefer to choose for themselves how to spend THEIR own well-deserved gratuities. Or maybe you'd like your customers to start paying you partially in phone cards?

Maybe what they (or their children back home) need THIS week is a pair of new shoes. How do they pay for that with phone cards?
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Old October 23rd, 2003, 02:41 AM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

I just want to add in why the No Tipping Policy is confusing.

For many cruise lines, where tipping is "mandatory", you have no choice but to tip and everyone expects it. Even the service is bad, you still have to pay the suggested amount.

And at HAL, tipping is "essential" in my opinion. Why? Simply because the HAL staff expects you to tip. If the staff doesn't expect you to pay. Then tipping becomes truly optional. Otherwise it makes the passenger feel guilty for not tipping.

Going on the "Z" on 11/22. Looking forward!
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Old October 23rd, 2003, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

DL: 'For many cruise lines, where tipping is "mandatory". What cruise lines have mandatory tipping? I know of none. You do have a choice to tip or not, and how much. Happy Cruising!!
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Old October 23rd, 2003, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

We have stayed at all-inclusive resorts where tipping is 'included', and at Breezes and Sandals they say 'not permitted'. Regardless, we still tip our housekeeper, most bartenders, and others who we feel have provided exceptional service in their own special way. I am sick of being criticized by others who think people like us only tip to gain preferential treatment.

On our Veendam cruise, we tipped for every round, and the bartenders and casino waitresses went out of their way to take care of us. Ironically, we are some of those cheapskates who 'sneak' liquor aboard to avoid buying all those high-priced drinks. Personally, I'd rather see my money going to the hard-working stiffs who deserve it, and if the fallout from that is being called a cheapskate and getting better service, than so be it!

Cheers,
MaryC
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Old October 23rd, 2003, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

carnival has automatic tipping. I was on the VICTORY last year .I was charged
on the first day about 70 dollars on my sign card, yes, you have the choice of
going to the desk to cancel it if you want , its sort of embassing to ask for
an adustment if you don't like the service. twice now I have found the service lacking
when it is like that


NOV 1 VOLENDAM 10 DAYS CRUISE
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Old October 24th, 2003, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

We have been on a few cruises, and have never found it Embarrassing to have the tip amount removed from the bill, I will tip for outstanding service, and will not tip for someone just doing there job, that is for the cruise line to pay there salary not I.
In the long run I will end up tipping more then they have decided, but it would be my choice on who gets a tip, and not there's.

Barry

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Old November 11th, 2003, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Looks like HA will be changing there tipping policy. In announcing the ďSignature of ExcellenceĒ initiative URL below They said the following ..." In addition, other service enhancements include a convenient folio posting of nominal, optional gratuities, as well as automatic service charge postings to bar-bills, thus simplifying the sometimes confusing cruise tipping system. "


http://hollandamerica.com/aboutus/ne...ignofexcel.htm
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Old November 11th, 2003, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

Main Entry: gra∑tu∑ity
Pronunciation: gr&-'tŁ-&-tE, -'tyŁ-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ities
Date: 1540
: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service; especially : TIP



I think this says it all.

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Old November 14th, 2003, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

*** Passengers aboard Holland America will see some major changes over the next two years, including boarding from 11:30am and a change in tipping policy. The changes are part of the premium line's $225 million "Signature of Excellence" initiative. The program will introduce numerous enhancements to dining, accommodations, service, activities and destinations aboard the 12 ships in the HAL fleet. The new Westerdam, entering service next April and the un-named newbuild entering service in January 2006 will be specially designed to incorporate the changes. Here are some highlights:

Early embarkation is available now. Passengers may board from 11:30am to enjoy the Welcome Aboard Lido buffet, tour the ship and make spa appointments and arrange shore excursions until cabins are ready - usually around 1:00pm. Carry-on luggage and coats can be checked with ship staff.


The new tipping system is designed to simplify the sometimes confusing "no tipping policy" which has been a hallmark of HAL. While tipping will still be optional on HAL ships, "nominal" gratuities will be automatically added to the shipboard account. These can be increased, decreased or removed by visiting the front desk. A service charge will be automatically added to bar bills.
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Old November 16th, 2003, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Re: Tipping/Gratuities--Holland America

I'm curious where this information came from.

First, HAL has never had a "no tipping" policy. Who said that it was a "hallmark" of HAL?
I would doubt anything that was said after that false statement.

Second, who/what said that the tips would be "automatically added" to the shipboard account? Neither the press release, the email I received from HAL, or any news accounts I've seen have said this. On another board, people who have contacted Shore Services, the Mariner Society, and Reservation staff have stated that the tips would NOT be automatically added. I'm curious who is the authority who contradicted all of the information I've received to date.

SFJ
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