There's been quite a bit of controversy lately about changes HAL has made to their onboard smoking policies, specifically eliminating smoking under the magrodome (those few tables near the Lido Bar) and having alternating smoking/smoke-free nights in the casino.
Are you in favor of these changes, or do you feel they are infringing upon smokers' freedoms while onboard? Have you ever found smoking to be a real problem on HAL ships? Are there other areas you'd like to see go non-smoking?
On some threads/boards this subject of smoking verses non-smoking can get very heated. (excuse the pun)
We have been on the Oo and did not experience the same smoke intrusion that we've felt on other ships. But it could have been just that sailing too.
On our last cruise to Alaska on Celebrity Infinity...it was terrible. The hallways, cabins and decks were flooded with smoke.
I watched a recent PBS program on cruising and the specially trained chefs on board. But what surprised me were the ship kitchens... they don't use gas stoves with flames because of the fear of fire. YET...smoking is allowed on the ships!
As for health issues...there is no question of the danger of second hand smoke. We don’t wish to interfere with another passenger’s death wish...it’s their life...
But on the other hand, I feel that in their earnest quest to end their life on this planet early...non-smokers shouldn’t be included!
I watched a recent PBS program on cruising and the specially trained chefs on board. But what surprised me were the ship kitchens... they don't use gas stoves with flames because of the fear of fire. YET...smoking is allowed on the ships!
From what I understand, most of the furnishings and fixtures on cruise ships are made of fire-resistant materials. That's why smoking is probably allowed. A simple cigarette, even if left unattended wouldn't do that much damage. The fire on Princess started on a balcony, and I don't even believe that was ever definitely determined to have been started by a discarded cigarette.
I watched a recent PBS program on cruising and the specially trained chefs on board. But what surprised me were the ship kitchens... they don't use gas stoves with flames because of the fear of fire. YET...smoking is allowed on the ships!!
The thing I found amazing ... I was watching a video about the QM2, and they should people in the Brittania Dining Room. There is no question ... those were LIVE candles on the dining room tables. They should didn't look electronic to me ... unless they were really, really good.
I can't understand burning candles on a cruise ship. That seems extremely dangerous. What if someone inadvertently knocks one over?
As a smoker with less and less places to enjoy a cigarette or cigar in public, I totally hate the idea. However, it does seem to be the popular band wagon these days and everyone is pushing and shoving to jump on. Its no surpirse cruise ships are doing the same thing. As for the health risks, there are risks, but generally they are overstated. And the risk from second hand smoke is highly overstated. But since smoker bashing is all the rage right now, no one really cares about the actual facts. I've come to accept that and expect it.
All that said, if it ever gets to where I am not allowed to smoke on open decks, in my cabin on on my veranda, I will stop cruising and take my significant sums of vacation money to a more smoker friendly vacation venue. Resorts on the Mediterranean Sea come to mind. Its a shame, I do love cruising. But, I love my freedom to kill myself more than cruising. .
Tim
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As a child, a library card takes you to exotic, faraway places. When you're grown up, a credit card does it.
-- Sam Ewing (Readers Digest, Dec, 1997)
All that said, if it ever gets to where I am not allowed to smoke on open decks, in my cabin on on my veranda, I will stop cruising and take my significant sums of vacation money to a more smoker friendly vacation venue. Resorts on the Mediterranean Sea come to mind. Its a shame, I do love cruising. But, I love my freedom to kill myself more than cruising. .
Tim, I'm with you. Smoking in the privacy of my cabin is a non-negotiable issue to me. The day I can't do that is the day cruising no longer becomes enjoyable for me ... and I will likely stop. True, I won't like it ... but I am sure there are other alternatives out there for my vacation dollar.
Take your vacation dollar somewhere else as there is nothing worse than smoke in the beds and other areas of a cabin and do not tell me that they can get rid of this second hand smoke.On one cruise I had to call the cabin steward and ask for his special spray as the odor was unreal in that cabin from the previous cruise.You cannot convince me that the smoke does not get into bed spreads, curtains and any other cloth fabrics in the small confined cabin on all cruise ships.
On several cruises...we've had to ask the cabin attendant to change the drapes, bedspread, pillows...because of the persistent smell of cigarette smoke.
On our Celebrity cruise, it was my sister’s 30 wedding anniversary...we booked our suites over a year in advance because we wanted to have suites next to each other, on a specific deck. Our suite’s bathroom, bed linen, drapes...everything smelled of cigarette smoke. The cabin attendant changed everything from the mattress pad, pillows to the drapes and even the toilet paper! The smell was overwhelming! They then washed the walls, shampooed the carpet, wiped down the couch and chair with special solutions...the smell persisted because it had even permeated the walls!
Finally the couple in the Penthouse started complaining because the smell of cigarette smoke was leaking into their suite and the attendants had to seal the cabin’s inter-door with tape. (we took pictures of our bare cabin and the taping!)
All the clothes we had placed in the closet and drawers had to be washed our dry cleaned, which Celebrity did for free. Celebrity tried in everyway to clean and air out the suite...but they couldn’t. The day we left...we went up to visit our ‘suite’ the smoke was still just as bad. The cabin attendants and Customer Service commented they didn’t know what would happen for the next passengers, as in her words, “This cabin is unusable�.
For our cruise, we were forced to move into a smaller cabin...on a different deck because the...ship was full! For awhile, Celebrity thought they would have to fly us home from Vancouver because there were no other cabins available. As it was there was, a no-show in San Francisco, and this couple didn’t show up in Vancouver either...so we were able to get stay in their cabin.
It’s not like, a cigarette smoker leaves...and they take their smoke smell with them...noooooooo....they leave the ‘essence’ of their presences...that smoke smell, which WE now have in OUR hair, clothes, bedding, etc. and in our cabin, which we paid good money to enjoy...but can’t! All this disappointment, inconvenience and expense because of a selfish and dirty habit.
Cruise Lines are taking notice though...Since first of this year, 2007...I’ve received 3 surveys regarding cigarette smoking in cabins. Two from Celebrity and one from RCCI. There’s hope!
There should be smoking cabins just like there are smoking hotel rooms - there is no difference.
They did that on the SS Norway.
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SS Norway (12 times) '85 - '97; Radiance OS 06/01; Island Princess 11/04, Grand Princess 11/04/05, Golden Princess 7/21/06, Golden Princess 2/24/07, Explorer of the Seas 12/23/07, Island Princess 11/15/08
There should be smoking cabins just like there are smoking hotel rooms - there is no difference.
I've heard that the main reason cruise lines will not do this is because what happens if there are say five smoking cabins that don't get booked. Non-smokers won't want to be on a floor where every cabin around them contains smokers. Especially if we're talking a balcony cabin, most likely non-smokers won't book it because they will know that everyone around them will be smoking on their balconies, and thus the non-smoker won't even get to enjoy their balcony.
At least the way it is now, you may have a few smokers on balconies around you, but the odds are that every single one of those passengers won't be smokers. Maybe you will even luck out and get no smokers on the balconies directly around your own.
So, rather than possibly have to sail with some empty cabins, cruise lines just assure passengers that the ventilation systems are good on the ship, and they shouldn't be bothered by anyone else's smoking.
And, frankly, hotel rooms may have non-smoking floors, but there are always times you will have a smoker in one of those rooms. In fact, we were in what was supposed to be a non-smoking room at the Heathrow Airport Marriott in April. We had been confirmed for a smoking room with two beds. When we got to the hotel, the only thing they had available was a smoking room with a king size bed. Of course, that was unacceptable for two women who, yes, were friends ... but not so close that we would sleep together in a king size bed. The hotel had no alternative but to upgrade us to the "executive level" on the non-smoking floor, and send us a couple of ashtrays up to the room.
So, don't believe for a minute that those non-smoking rooms are always 100% non-smoking. There are times a smoker will be added to the mix.
one of my pleasures in cruising HAL was to go up early in the morning to the "smoker's place" on the lido and join the guys in coffee. now, that apparently is gone. i agree with one or two posters: when cabin smoking is banned i, too, will go to another form of travel, as much as i like cruising. stand up, smokers, and demand your rights. as for the rest of you, flame me to the max. i couldn't care less.
one of my pleasures in cruising HAL was to go up early in the morning to the "smoker's place" on the lido and join the guys in coffee. now, that apparently is gone. i agree with one or two posters: when cabin smoking is banned i, too, will go to another form of travel, as much as i like cruising. stand up, smokers, and demand your rights. as for the rest of you, flame me to the max. i couldn't care less.
That is one of our pleasures, also Hombre. I have heard that some of the ships still have 3-4 tables set up by the bar on the Lido for us smokers to enjoy our morning smoke with out coffee. Sometimes, especially if you are sailing out of NYC or in Alaska, it's just too cold to sit outside. Surely the non-smokers can walk on the other side of the Lido if they don't like it.
What makes me angry is when non-smokers take up the smoking tables and then make faces at those of us smoking in designated places. Move, if you don't like it.
That is one of our pleasures, also Hombre. I have heard that some of the ships still have 3-4 tables set up by the bar on the Lido for us smokers to enjoy our morning smoke with out coffee. Sometimes, especially if you are sailing out of NYC or in Alaska, it's just too cold to sit outside. Surely the non-smokers can walk on the other side of the Lido if they don't like it.
What makes me angry is when non-smokers take up the smoking tables and then make faces at those of us smoking in designated places. Move, if you don't like it.
I don't worry in the slightest if the non-smokers sitting in the smoking section make "evil eyes" when I light up. I simply smile and tell them ... "this is, after all, the smoking section ... so maybe you might want to move." They generally get up.
Believe me ... I wasn't happy on the Veendam when HAL eliminated the smoking at those few tables under the magronome. That was really the only part of their new policy that I took a major exception to. I'm hoping that by the time I take my next HAL cruise, that policy has changed and we can once again smoke in that area. As far as the alternating smoke-free and smoking nights in the casino ... granted, I don't use the casino, so the change really doesn't affect me ... but, on the surface anyway, it sounds fair ... an effort to keep everyone happy ... smokers and non-smokers alike.
So for now, I'll probably put up with HAL's new smoking policy ... because overall I am still getting my needs met when sailing HAL ships. I love the line ... love the environment on their ships ... love the people ... love the service. You get the idea. But, come the day when smoking is banned in the cabins ... well, then the negatives will outweigh the positives of a HAL cruise experience ... and since I firmly believe that when that day comes, the change will come not from the cruise lines, but from the legislature ... there won't be any other cruise line I can go to where I will be able to smoke in my cabin ... and thus cruising will no longer meet my needs. Sadly, I too will have to look for alternatives. Much as I love cruising, it will no longer be an option for me ... and I rue the day that happens.
Maybe you will look at those cruise lines which cater to the Europeans who enjoy this terrible habit and you can have a ball.You might want to look at Costa and you may find many of your friends.Am convinced that you are barking up the wrong tree on this site.
Maybe you will look at those cruise lines which cater to the Europeans who enjoy this terrible habit and you can have a ball.You might want to look at Costa and you may find many of your friends.Am convinced that you are barking up the wrong tree on this site.
I think when the cruise lines go non-smoking in the cabins and on balconies, the rule will be in force on ALL cruise lines. It will be a governmental regulation and all ships plying waters in the U.S. will have to comply.
Why am I barking up the wrong tree on this site? Clearly there are some that agree with me and others who don't. That's fine.
There's been quite a bit of controversy lately about changes HAL has made to their onboard smoking policies, specifically eliminating smoking under the magrodome (those few tables near the Lido Bar) and having alternating smoking/smoke-free nights in the casino.
Are you in favor of these changes, or do you feel they are infringing upon smokers' freedoms while onboard? Have you ever found smoking to be a real problem on HAL ships? Are there other areas you'd like to see go non-smoking?
Just curious ...
Blue skies ...
--rita
Rita, even as a smoker (very little btw) I think the changes are great. Everyone should be able to enjoy their cruise and it is important to reach a compromise on certain issues. Do I think the policy should be extended further? No: as long as smoking isn't illegal and there are those out there that still enjoy the cancer sticks I think non smokers have to understand and bend a little as well. On our HAL cruise last year we could smell the left over smoke in our cabin when we first opened the door, but only for a couple of minute. I am one of those who will find another form of vacation if smoking in ban altogether. My husband, who absolutely hates the habit agrees; everyone must respect the rights of others and he feels non smokers are carrying the smoking issure too far. NMnita
On another note, you have to understand that smoking is an ADDICTION. Most smokers who are taken away the right to smoke cigarettes or cigars, especially on a relaxing vacation like a cruise, will not be very happy campers.
I cruised on Holland Americas Vaandam last summer to Alaska and one of my favorite parts of the day was sitting on the Lido deck in the morning or after dinner, watching the water, and enjoying a cigarette with the other smokers on board. Also, there is a lot of downtime on a cruise ship when you are out at sea with no where to go but around the ship. This can be for a day or two and I know as a smoker if I was told I could not smoke in my cabin or on a balcony I would be very unhappy. From what I saw on my cruise last summer, the non smokers did not have a major problem with smoking on the Lido deck... I could understand taking away smoking cabins because of the lingering smell, but on an outside deck I see no problem.
I cruised on Holland Americas Vaandam last summer to Alaska and one of my favorite parts of the day was sitting on the Lido deck in the morning or after dinner, watching the water, and enjoying a cigarette with the other smokers on board.
And I was looking forward to the same on my recent Veendam cruise. But that's precisely the area that they took away from us ... smoking on that entire deck ... under the magronome ... is now prohibited. We are relegated to the aft deck ... where there is absolutely no protection from the elements ... and that kinda sucks.
It seems to me that this may have already happened. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were a couple of totally non-smoking ships out there for a while. None survived. I'm sorry to break the news to you, tennisbum, but there are a lot of us smokers out there and we spend a lot of money on vacations. Dont think for a minute the cruiselines want to, or can afford to lose that business.
Tim
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As a child, a library card takes you to exotic, faraway places. When you're grown up, a credit card does it.
-- Sam Ewing (Readers Digest, Dec, 1997)
[quote="jaggy"
It seems to me that this may have already happened. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were a couple of totally non-smoking ships out there for a while. None survived. I'm sorry to break the news to you, tennisbum, but there are a lot of us smokers out there and we spend a lot of money on vacations. Dont think for a minute the cruiselines want to, or can afford to lose that business.
Tim[/quote]
I don't know about a couple of totally non-smoking ships, but Carnival's Paradise started out as a non-smoking ship and that didn't last very long. They lost too much revenue.
We never smoke in the cabin, but do enjoy a cigarette/cigar on our verandah.
This contraversary can go on and on and on and the smokers and non-smokers will never agree with each other.
You know your smoking affects the people around you. It's not like you are keeping that smoke to yourself. On Carnival the smoke was terrible in the piano bar, and the nite places we tried to go too. Just couldn't stand to be in with the smokers.
It's funny to hear you all talk about doing something else if you couldn't smoke on the cruise. I have often wonder where we could go to get away from you smokers. Ironic huh.
This is so discouraging hearing you all talking about smoking on your balconies. We got one this time for the Alaska cruise in July and I can imagine not able to enjoy it because of the smoke.
Bedspreads and sheets catch on fire all the time because of smoking in bed (in homes not ships). Hear about it on the news so it seems like smoking and ships do not seem to go hand in hand to me. Makes no sense.
I don't know what you all are talking about with the new smoking rules on Holland. Hope they make it a more pleasant journey for us who are non-smokers.I certainly have written enough letters asking for more non-smoking areas and having fits about smoking areas.
Dianeisme313: You will notice in all the replies from Smokers...that none addresses the issue of the cigarette smoke and particulate matter clinging to OUR clothes, hair and cabin bedding, drapes and furniture.
If Smoker’s can indulge their ‘addiction’, and keep the smoke and particulate matter to solely to themselves, that would be a viable consideration. But when a cruise passenger
lights-up…inhales and then exhales…it doesn’t just float over the smoker, but drifts over to the next table or adjoining veranda. We, non-smoking passengers are forced by circumstances to be unwilling participants. Their cigarette habit CLINGS to us. How fair is that?
To have the opportunity to breath clean fresh air is really going to be a rare gift.
On late night News last night, Environmentalist express valid concerns because China’s air pollution is drifting over to North America…we are/will be breathing not only our polluted air but THEIR dirty air too.
What’s sad…Smokers may not even notice the difference.
I heard that on the news about the pollution from other countries reaching our shores. I had seen that months ago on something else probably on public tv. They can use leaded gas there, where we have been for years having to use unleaded gas. They are using cars more and more instead of bicycles.
To have the opportunity to breath clean fresh air is really going to be a rare gift.
But that's just it. You'll never really going to get to breathe clean, fresh air ... not in your lifetime. Believe me ... cigarette smokers are the least of your problems. The major source of pollutants in our air probably comes from vehicle exhaust ... and each and every year we see more and more vehicles on our roadways.
Now what I'd like to see is some legislation proposed to address this problem ... even in the short-term. Let's see ... how about you can only drive your vehicle on certain days of the week? Now, that would sure cut down on the number of vehicles fuming exhaust into our atmosphere on a daily basis. But, of course, such laws would never come to pass. Why? Because there would be such a stink raised that no elected official would dare support such a measure. He would never be re-elected.
But of course, smokers on the other hand are fair game. Let's blame all the problems in the environment on them. Smokers make other people sick with their second-hand smoke. I shouldn't have to breathe in their second-hand smoke, so let's make it a rule that they can't smoke. Since smokers are in the minority, they will eventually lose all of their rights ... because they are popular whipping boys. Eventually, I have no doubt, there will be NO PLACE on ANY ship where we can smoke any longer ... and many of us will be forced to choose: Give up cruising if you want to continue smoking.
Some people may consider that fair ... but I certainly don't. If people are so concerned about their health and believe smokers are jeopardizing it with their "bad habit," then it might behoove you to look at some of the other risks to your health out there in the environment. Take a good look and you'll quickly realize that smokers are a very small problem in relation to so many other things.
But of course you are absolutely right...no one should have to breath in second-hand cigarette smoke. And most definitely, 'smoker's DO make other's unwilling victims because of their habit.
A 'smoker's habit clings to me, my hair and my clothes. My reserved cabin smells stale with old cigarette smoke. The carpet, walls, drapes and other furniture reek of it, and it's the 'smoker's' habit not mine!
Why should any non-smoker have to re-wash their clothes or dry clean new clothes because of being exposed unwillingly to cigarette smoke?
Is it morally reasonable for a ‘smoker’ to insist on exercising their right to indulge in a habit that has the potential to make others physically ill in a public environment?
Is it really reasonable to feel that Smokers are the victims?
I feel smokers should have rights just as non-smokers should have rights and choose not to be around it. Personally, to me, whenever someone is outside anywhere, they should have the right to smoke anywhere. No one owns the world or earth outside. Inside, I feel there should be designated smoking areas for those that choose to smoke, and for people that hate smoke, don't go in there, that's your choice. Smokers should have rights and choices too.
We non-smokers have a right to enjoy all places on a ship, and you can't even breathe where the smokers are. We paid extravagant amount for a verandah room, and we have a right not to have it smoked up by the person next to ours or above our verandah. You just don't get it, they can't keep their smoke to themselves and it affects us big time us the non-smokers. I avoid casinos and bars here in Oklahoma because they are smoky, but a ship we have the right to use the casino and breathe easy. I don't go to Vegas because of the smoky casinoes even the big and beautiful hotels are smoky. I just expect so much more for a cruise line like Hal.
The ships need to get with the times and become smoke -free. If they care for their customers comfort and our health they would do it in a heartbeat. I would think a great ship line like Hal would care for their customers greatly and want to do the right thing by us.
I feel smokers should have rights just as non-smokers should have rights and choose not to be around it. Personally, to me, whenever someone is outside anywhere, they should have the right to smoke anywhere. No one owns the world or earth outside. Inside, I feel there should be designated smoking areas for those that choose to smoke, and for people that hate smoke, don't go in there, that's your choice. Smokers should have rights and choices too.
Smoking
.
But, come the day when smoking is banned in the cabins ... well, then the negatives will outweigh the positives of a HAL cruise experience ... and since I firmly believe that when that day comes, the change will come not from the cruise lines, but from the legislature ... there won't be any other cruise line I can go to where I will be able to smoke in my cabin ... and thus cruising will no longer meet my needs. Sadly, I too will have to look for alternatives. Much as I love cruising, it will no longer be an option for me ... and I rue the day that happens.
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