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Old January 6th, 2009, 01:30 PM
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Dinnertimes on our Christmas cruise were ruined by two tables on opposite sides of the main dining room whooping across to each other every night, as if they were rival teams at a ball park.

We complained to the Maitre d', as did several others, and he said that he couldn't do anything about it - "he had spoken to them and they insisted on carrying on doing it".

We then complained to the Cruise Director, who said he would pass it on to the Head of Food and Beverage, but the whooping continued every night.

Many of us have complained about it in our questionnaire, but HAL seems to be ignoring the whole incident and hoping we will forget about it.

Should we have taken it to the Captain at the time?
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Old January 6th, 2009, 05:30 PM
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sooo sorry to hear about this... I am very disappointed to here that HAL staff did nothing to help or control the situation... I do not think the Captain could have done anything but please contact you travel agent for them to write a letter with your complaint... you should receive SOME compensation!

Good Luck!

If your agent is unable to help you, please sned me a msg,.I have helped others in the past with their dilemas.
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Old January 6th, 2009, 05:34 PM
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sounds just awful, but my increasing impression is that hal doesn't do much anymore to settle these kinds of things; once aboard and paid, that's about it. my upcoming hal cruise has me a bit dissatisfied even beforehand; my ta knows it may be my last on hal.
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Old January 6th, 2009, 07:10 PM
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Unfortunately, though I am sure this was annoying, there really was nothing wrong with it and I am not surprised that no one from HAL put a stop to it.

Unfortunately, holiday cruises tend to bring out large groups traveling together. That's simply because holidays and popular vacation periods like summertime tend to be the times when whole families can get together. They are out to have a good time and hence the "whooping" and hollaring back and forth. Other than being annoying, they really aren't doing anything more than having fun.

The only advice I can give you is to try and stay away from holiday sailings in the future. You will get lots of people on those cruises ... and many of them can be loud and boisterous. It's just their way of having fun.

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Old January 7th, 2009, 01:01 PM
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hey, this is the prinsendam and hal we're talking about -- not carnival, rci, or ncl. this is supposed to be a line with a little class, though ive noticed that is fading fast on hal. and the prinsendam is supposed to be their 'elegant explorer.' if these folks chose to throw food across the dining room, would this have been tolerated? give us a break, kyros; once in a while stick up for what standards are left -- at least for us oldies who want a dignified experience before we die and leave the whole mess over to jeans, shorts, sweaty bodies, hats on backwards, and the whole cheerleading disaster in the dining room. you say, choose a smaller more elite cruise line, but it won't be long before this stuff invades seaborne, azamara, and the rest. civility -- long gone, but not forgotten.
where, kyros, do you draw a line -- or don't you. waiting to hear.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 01:20 PM
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I negelected to mention the best part:

On the last night of the cruise, when only one person still thought it amusing to shout around and disturb others, someone nearby threw a glass of water over him and yelled at him to "SHUT UP!".

The room erupted in applause from the 95% of us who knew how to behave, and had had our previous dinners spoiled.

How much better it would have been had the Maitre d' handled the situation early on, rather than relying on a paying guest to do so.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 01:43 PM
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so there you go. it is now up to passengers to control the rowdies. need i say more? not hal, they might alienate future rowdies -- which in turn leads to less passengers like ourselves. makes sense, doesn't it???
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Old January 7th, 2009, 07:19 PM
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Good to hear that there was one person who stood up. I hope they bought him a drink and was ready to stand by him.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 07:36 PM
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Sad that people who want to act like idiots are allowed to ruin it for the rest of the diners. What I think should have happened, is the 2nd night it happened he should have been asked to leave...I'm not surprised that the person who stood up for all of you, did it on the last night...less time for retribution.

I would not expect any form of compensation, I would only hope HAL would revisit their guidelines for bad behavior.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 08:32 PM
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We has a similar experience a few years ago on a RCCL cruise. The Maitre d' did have a talk with the group on the 1st night, it still happened but on a smaller scale. The 2nd night, formal night, when it started, a male passenger walked over and also had a conversation with them and they quieted down. On the 3rd night when it started, the same male passenger started to walk over to their table but this time at least 10 other men from various tables joined him and applause broke out. That was the last we heard from them. A few of them would show up for dinner during the remainder of the week but they were very quiet!
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Old January 7th, 2009, 08:58 PM
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Compensation... I hate that word.
Compensation because there are rude people in the world..... HAL should give you something because a fellow guest or guests have no manners?

That's ridiculous IMO.
What would you have them do? Get into a fight with these pigs? Unless there was risk of injury or safety, there is little I would expect crew to do. These sort of people are looking for a fight and they are prepared to make as much noise as they wish.


There are ignorant people in all facets of our lives. Your bad luck they happened to be seated near you in the dining room.

If you hated it that much, you should have asked for a table change IMO
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Old January 8th, 2009, 09:23 AM
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I agree that seeking financial compensation for every little thing that goes wrong is not the way to go.

However, it is HAL's responsibility to ensure that as many people as possible enjoy their cruise. That means talking to the ten people so that the other 190 in the dining room don't have to. If they continue to be rowdy then ban them from the dining room.

Can you imagine this situation arising night after night in a posh New York restaurant, and the Maitre d' doing nothing?

I simply do not understand why 95% of us could not rely on those in charge to fulfil their obligations to us, as paying guests. Why should I have to move tables? Why should another well-behaved guest feel compelled to take action just so he can enjoy his dinner?

If I decided I wanted to shout out during the show every night, would everyone else be expected to leave and find other entertainment?

What a sad future we'd have to look forward to if we accept anarchy as being inevitable.
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Old January 8th, 2009, 01:18 PM
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thank you for speaking up, triangle. in civil society, if there is one anymore, this behavior would be called disturbing the peace. as for the maitre'd confronting these jerks, well, he or she is in charge of the dining room and assuring that everyone enjoys the experience -- he or she is not hired to stand and greet folks at the entrance or make perfunctory calls at various tables. if rowdies don't behave and keep bothering the rest of the guests, then the complaint goes to the hotel manager, maybe, and then up the line to the master, who has a right to put anyone off the ship if he so desires for such polluting behavior. i agree, why should one of the civil folks be required to move? and the princendam is small; finding another table away from the hoods would not have been easy, and then others who moved would have to put up with the mess. why not try to find them an alternative place to dine, maybe in the gym?

lest anyone think i am rich and snobby: i am a retired catholic priest living in a modest moutain home, on an educator's pension and a few other modest sources of income. when i cruise, i prefer not to be run over by types such as these, and i think i have a right not to be so disturbed. i like fun and good times as much as the next guy or gal,, but believe me, if this stuff happened in my congregation or in my parish gatherings, it would have been handled-- with dignity and grace and a chance to quietly save face; but it WOULD have been handled. the ill manners of a few must not rob a good experience from the many. for us christians, would jesus have allowed this at the wedding feast at cana?

ps: triangle, i see you are from bermuda, where some civility still maintains; hold on to it as long as you can. the rowdies are coming.
some say 'laissez le bon temps roulez.' ok, but my bon temps might be a lot different from others', which is why i might choose hal over carnival, ncl, or rccl. and in public places all bon temps need to find a comfortable equilibrium. imho after all, they say a cruise is a microcosm of society; well it is high time 'society' learned to accept others and get along.
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Old January 8th, 2009, 01:24 PM
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The Hotel manager could have also called the Security people that are on every ship, they keep a low profile but they are there if needed,not for just checking your badge while going on and off the ship.
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Old January 8th, 2009, 01:28 PM
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good point, old salt. good point. there were ways to deal with this which DID NOT involve overt action by the passengers, and hal, in the person of the maitre'd and others, should have taken action. what happens if a fight breaks out? are the passengers to to vigilantes?
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Old January 8th, 2009, 05:27 PM
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This sounds like an episode on sienfeld only it was a movie theater. George was doing the opposite of every thing he normaly did and confronted the rowdies. This activity on your cruise was no joke. I would have been irate and do believe I would have had a difficult time not confronting the situation. Hal should have squelched this b.s. right now! I probably would be the one carted away in handcuffs. Having a good time is great and I think some people have the best time by assuring others do not.......MD
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Old January 12th, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Thank you for your thoughts, everyone

If something similar happens in future I'll be sure to solicit support from my fellow cruisers and act early, and certainly not rely on the Ship to do anything useful.

Happy cruising!
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Old January 12th, 2009, 12:51 PM
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bt, that is a sad, sad commentary; that it has come to this. but i remember my first cruise, years ago, on the cunard countess. my blind priest friend was almost drowning in the pool - the seas were rough and the pool was just a disaster -- emptying at one end before crashing down on the poor man. and i looked around the deck, everyone knew the problem, and about ten men got up and literally saved the poor guy. where were the attendants???????? it was a time that group effort saved a life, so i guess there are times when circumstances have to come to this.
some of those folks (british and german) i still keep in touch with, almost as if we bonded over the incident.
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Old January 12th, 2009, 03:10 PM
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These things are unfortunate, but I also agree it is ridiculous to ask for compensation for things that are not the fault of the cruise line. how do you think the waiter, busboy and maitre d' felt - how do you suppose they were treated by this group?

Prinsendam is a small, older ship, the former Royal Viking Sun. It is supposed to be one of HAL's classiest ships - elite and special. It only has one, small dining room.

We don't know the cruise ship's side of the story. The truth is, all you can do is ask people to keep it down and hope they do. You can't duct tape their mouths shut or ban them from eating.

It might have been nice if the tables were moved closer to each other, but that might have just made it worse, who knows? Or if an alternative dining spot was available but it doesn't sound likely - the ship was built in something like 1980.

I do think the best solution was the large group of fellow passengers uniting to talk to them, hopefully politely. Too bad it didn't happen on this cruise.

But bottom line - we do not know what was tried to stop these antics. At least it wasn't as bad as a P&O cruise I just read about full of young kids getting drunk and breaking furniture.

By the way - were these folks American or foreign?
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Old January 12th, 2009, 03:20 PM
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The ones on the table nearest us were Americans in their 70's.
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Old January 12th, 2009, 03:47 PM
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I don't see the age of the ship having any bearing on the problem,bad manners is bad manners no matter where,and moving the tables is not an option as they have a chain holding them to that spot in case of bad weather. I have sailed on 31 ships in my career in the Merchant Marine service and I have a little knowledge of what happens on board ship,as I stated in a previous post call security or one of the ships officer(mates) or the the staff captain.

I have booked a cruise on the Prinsendam for July.
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Old January 13th, 2009, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hombre
hey, this is the prinsendam and hal we're talking about -- not carnival, rci, or ncl. this is supposed to be a line with a little class, though ive noticed that is fading fast on hal. and the prinsendam is supposed to be their 'elegant explorer.' if these folks chose to throw food across the dining room, would this have been tolerated? give us a break, kyros; once in a while stick up for what standards are left -- at least for us oldies who want a dignified experience before we die and leave the whole mess over to jeans, shorts, sweaty bodies, hats on backwards, and the whole cheerleading disaster in the dining room. you say, choose a smaller more elite cruise line, but it won't be long before this stuff invades seaborne, azamara, and the rest. civility -- long gone, but not forgotten.
where, kyros, do you draw a line -- or don't you. waiting to hear.
I may not be an "oldie" ... I will never consider myself an "oldie" even when I'm 90 ... and I don't like this sort of behavior either. I sail HAL specifically to get away from the "party hardy" crowd, not to immerse myself in it. I'd go to Carnival if that's the sort of thing I liked.

That said, however, I have to also add that holiday and heavy vacation season sailings notoriously bring out the party crowd ... on EVERY cruise line. I'm not saying the "drunk as a skunk" crowd, but definitely a party crowd. They are looking to have a good time, and enjoy the company of friends and family members that they maybe don't see all year. So, the conversation and whatnot can tend to get boisterous ... yes, even on a ship like the Prisendam.

I think anyone who takes a cruise in this time period has to realize that it won't be the same experience that it normally would be at other times of the year. FWIW, the Prisendam is called the "elegant explorer" because of the exotic and longer itineraries she does. But come the holiday season, she does a shorter Caribbean run. On that sailing, she gets a passenger mix that she wouldn't otherwise get on her longer sailings. So, the onboard environment on that sort of cruise is entirely different ... younger people out to celebrate the holidays with friends and family. Celebrations can get loud and boisterous. That's a fact of life. People are having a great time.

As for throwing food around the dining room, please ... give me a break. There is a big difference between a food fight and "shouting out" to friends seated at another table or "whooping it up" a bit. While throwing food should never be tolerated, how do you tell people they shouldn't laugh and talk and greet people at other tables? What are they really doing here that's wrong, other than annoying some people who don't like the higher decibel levels?

My feeling is that holiday cruises are meant to be celebrations. They often involve larger groups sailing together. When you book such a sailing, you can't ... in all fairness ... expect the onboard environment to be the same as if you booked one of the Prisendam's exotic itineraries going to Europe, South America or wherever. Thus, on the holiday sailing you have to be just a bit more tolerant of your fellow passengers and their desire to celebrate with good friends.

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Old January 13th, 2009, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bermuda Triangle
I negelected to mention the best part:

On the last night of the cruise, when only one person still thought it amusing to shout around and disturb others, someone nearby threw a glass of water over him and yelled at him to "SHUT UP!".
Now who's the "rowdy?" That was uncalled for and totally unacceptable behavior. If the staff did nothing to stop the person who was "shouting out" to his friends, who the heck does this passenger think he is to take "charge" of the situation ... and to THROW a glass of water? I don't care if 95% of the passengers applauded him, his behavior was uncalled for, and frankly could even be termed illegal. What if that glass had shattered and injured the other passenger?

Frankly, I would hope that he himself was disciplined for his actions. Had I been the captain of that vessel, and he had done that before the last night of the cruise, he would have been disembarking my vessel at the next port ... to get home on his own. I should hope that at the very least his behavior was reported to HAL's home office and that he will be banned from ever sailing on another HAL ship. Let him go on Carnival in the future where perhaps that sort of behavior might be tolerated. In my opinion, he is ten times worse than a tableful of people "shouting out" to each other.

If I am a passenger on a HAL ship and certain behaviors on my cruise bother me, yet the staff doesn't control them, I voice my complaints higher up. If that doesn't work, then I vote with my pocketbook. I cancel any future cruises on that line, and I take my money elsewhere. But I do not under any circumstances take matters into my own hands to control the "rowdies." That's not my place. No one appointed me as the arbitar of behavior standards on HAL ships, and I have no right to take that position.

I can only hope HAL disciplined him for it. Believe me, I would have if I were the captain. The last thing I would want on a ship I command would be to have a vigilante onboard. He'd have spent his last night aboard in the brig if I were in charge, and I would have sent a very nice, very expensive bottle of wine to the table of the "rowdy" to show my regret that this incident occurred.

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Old January 13th, 2009, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Bermuda Triangle
However, it is HAL's responsibility to ensure that as many people as possible enjoy their cruise. That means talking to the ten people so that the other 190 in the dining room don't have to. If they continue to be rowdy then ban them from the dining room.
Let's be realistic here though. The OP says they were rowdy, because obviously their behavior was disturbing to him/her. But was it actually that bad? I'm not saying the OP is intentionally making it worse than it was, but it could be that the "rowdy" passengers behavior wasn't really that bad, just a bit louder than normal, and really nothing that the matri'd could "discipline" them for. I tend to think that if the behavior were truly that outrageous, it would have been stopped the first time it occurred, or at the very least the Hotel Manager would have had a quiet talk with them after the matri'd 's efforts failed to resolve the problem.

You read about this sort of thing all the time ... especially on threads relating to children. People go on a holiday cruise and then complain that there are too many rowdy children onboard. These are not kids breaking furniture or committing acts of vandalism -- they are kids running around at the pool, laughing, playing, splashing, and whatnot. This annoys other passengers, so they ask the staff to put a stop to it. The staff's hands are tied. They see what the kids are doing and they know that the kids are not doing anything wrong. They are just being normal kids and having a great time. So, they don't act, and then the passengers say the staff isn't doing anything.

On my recent 35-day cruise on the Statendam, we had one young toddler who was simply a PITA. Well, she wasn't a PITA, but her parents were. They would bring her into the Ocean Bar at cocktail hour every night, where they would let her roam free. The parents would be sitting there talking with friends, oblivious to what their little darling was doing. The kid would be up on the dance floor, or would be climbing on stuff, including another passenger's power chair. The kid would even go so far as to run out into the atrium. When other people said things to the parents, as one of my friends did, it had very little impact. In fact, the father told my friend off when she told him he should remove the kid from the casino. Basically he told her he could have his daughter anywhere on the ship that he'd like.

I think there is a fine line that separates what many of us consider undesirable behavior, and what is wrong. While a certain thing may bother us ... such as this kid in the Ocean Bar bothered me, it is not necessarily wrong and the ship's staff isn't going to do much about it when they hear a complaint from another passenger. Basically, I think the attitude is that everyone has a right to enjoy their cruise and as long as they can do that in a manner that does not break any ship rules, nor presents a safety hazard to other passengers or themselves, the staff isn't going to be too quick to rein them in.

Lots of kids bother me on a cruise, yet I realize that when their parents pay their fare and bring them onboard, then they have just as much right to have a good time as I do, even if their antics annoy me. So, what I do is attempt to carefully select my cruises so as to minimize my exposure to kids, and preferably eliminate it altogether. On this 35-day cruise, we only had three kids, with only this one little girl being a problem (for me and for my friends). I also take those longer cruises specficially for the type of passengers we normally get onboard ... older, quieter, more "refined" people. So far, I haven't been disappointed in any of my cruise experiences, despite this one little girl with the uncaring parents on my last cruise.

But when you take a cruise during a period of time such as school vacations or holidays, then you have to realize that you're going to get an entirely different passenger mix, including some of those who are there specifically to celebrate. As long as their behavior is not specifically breaking ship's rules, or causing some sort of a safety hazard, then I can well understand the staff being a bit unwilling to rein in their celebratory mood just because some of the other passengers are annoyed with it. Now, were they getting falling down drunk? If so, the staff hopefully would cut off their alcohol for the rest of the night. Were they throwing things and damaging the ship? Then I would hope they would be disciplined, up to and including spending some time in the brig until they "calmed down." Were they throwing things and thus risking the safety of other passengers? If so, yes, that needs to stop and I am sure the staff would put a stop to it. But if all they were doing was annoying some other passengers because they were having "too good of a time," then I can well imagine the staff steering clear of getting involved. After all, HAL specifically encourages passengers to come on her ships to have a good time. Now they're gonna penalize people for doing so?

So, I think there is two sides to this story. Just how bad was this behavior? Maybe it really wasn't that bad and that's why HAL's staff chose to do nothing about it.

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Old January 13th, 2009, 06:08 PM
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Kyros, I must say you certainly unwound that problem thread by thread,plus I think you nailed the problem on the head. I went to Florida one year two days prior to the rowdy kids going back to college, big mistake, the following year we scheduled the vacation after spring break,what a difference.
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Old January 14th, 2009, 06:53 AM
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of course kryos and i would never agree on the basic issue, here; but, hey, this is a place for opinions. she expressed hers, and i respect that. my opinion still remains that a 'warm and fuzzy' approach to problems like this is not tolerant -- it is reinforcement. such behavior is no less a pita than that child on the statendam, imho. peace
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Old January 14th, 2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hombre
of course kryos and i would never agree on the basic issue, here; but, hey, this is a place for opinions. she expressed hers, and i respect that. my opinion still remains that a 'warm and fuzzy' approach to problems like this is not tolerant -- it is reinforcement. such behavior is no less a pita than that child on the statendam, imho. peace
And I respect your opinion as well, hombre.

Actually, I think the only area in which we disagree is on WHO should handle the matter. Sadly, I just feel that it is not up to other passengers to do so. You feel differently.

Hey, we can always agree to disagree and still remain friends!

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Old January 14th, 2009, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hombre
good point, old salt. good point. there were ways to deal with this which DID NOT involve overt action by the passengers, and hal, in the person of the maitre'd and others, should have taken action. what happens if a fight breaks out? are the passengers to to vigilantes?
Actually, from what I recall reading on another message board a year or so back, that's exactly what happened in the dining room one night ... and it wasn't on a Carnival ship either ... but rather a Regent Seven Seas vessel! Apparently there was a screaming baby in the dining room on the first night and another passenger got sick of it. He got into words with the baby's father and eventually an all out fistfight broke out.

If I recall, the passenger who said something to the father was found to have caused the altercation (he may have also thrown the first punch ... I honestly can't recall) and he and his family were the ones put off the ship the next day in port. I think the baby's father may have filed charges as well, so he was also detained in that port for a day or so.

Very, very expensive situation. Not only did he and his family lose the monies paid for their cruise (which turned into a one-nighter), but the family had to stay in a hotel until he was released to travel home. Then, of course, there's last minute airfare for two, plus probably more legal expenses and perhaps a cash settlement later on.

I wonder if he didn't many times say "was that screaming baby so bad? Couldn't I have just put up with it? Eaten in another venue? Whatever.

Like I said ... my contention is that it is not the passenger's place to do more than POLITELY ask the offender to cease what it is they are doing. If the offender declines, then we are dependent on the staff to take care of matters. If they don't, we go above their heads ... all the way up to the Hotel Manager or Captain, if necessary. Then, if all else fails, we vote with our own pocketbooks and take our money elsewhere ... to another cruise line. If enough people do that, believe me, the cruise line will start handling matters proactively lest they wind up losing all of their loyal passengers.

Blue skies ...

--rita
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Old January 14th, 2009, 01:20 PM
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dear kyros, maybe we aren 't in disagreement at all. i DO NOT think passengers should have to handle the situation; i don't advocate vigilantism one bit. i would never advocate that; but, that said, before it gets to the point described in this thread and on others, the cruise line staff -- whomever -- should step in and ameliorate the problem. that is part of their responsibility. not just to smile and let things happen, but to try to solve them before they get to glass-throwing and outright hostility.
if this happened on a flight, you can bet at least the 'first mate' would be back there in the cabin, if not, the pilot. the rowdies should have been addressed up front, on the first night, by cruise staff and officers. in my ho it just went too far and got out of hand. doesn't sound like a 'happy ship' to me. the blame is on hal; not the rowdies for all of their ingnorance and insensitibility, nor on those duly offended. order on the ship comes from the captain and those under his authority. end of
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Old January 14th, 2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sail7seas
Compensation... I hate that word.
Compensation because there are rude people in the world..... HAL should give you something because a fellow guest or guests have no manners?

That's ridiculous IMO.
What would you have them do? Get into a fight with these pigs? Unless there was risk of injury or safety, there is little I would expect crew to do. These sort of people are looking for a fight and they are prepared to make as much noise as they wish.


There are ignorant people in all facets of our lives. Your bad luck they happened to be seated near you in the dining room.

If you hated it that much, you should have asked for a table change IMO
I agree with you, compensation, I hardly think so..the cruise line isn't resposible for the behavior of the passengers. Shoud they do more to control, what seems to be an epedemic of mis-behavior? Probably, but no compensation for heaven's sake. this same story, next verse seems to appearing all over the place. On another thread I read about the teens on Princess over New Years. Food fights, drinking, kids running up and down the halls at all hours, etc. Someone on the NCL board claimed the crew including the child care councilors were giving booze to teens (that one might be a little overboard) but I bet there were teens drinking. In every case, it seems the ships took little or no action..

Nita
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