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  #61 (permalink)  
Old June 23rd, 2009, 10:31 PM
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"he's totally entitled to his opinion and to post it here."

Yes, trackypup, but he's not entitled to bad mouth a cruise line with a well deserved excellent reputation by repeated, malicious, unsubstantiated allegations. It appears to be a deliberate attempt to harm business reputation and it can be actionable. He's had his day now, on repeated occasions, and it's time to move on. Do you really believe any Holland America executive told this guy, who appears to have some sort of agenda, "...that revenue was more important than customer satisfaction or comfort...?"

That may have been his personal conclusion, but I don't believe that was stated by any HAL exec for a minute. Never happened, and I'd like to see him prove it. No executive in any business which depends on the good will of its customers would ever say such a foolish thing. My long experience with HAL has been exactly opposite. It's very easy to make such an outrageous claim isn't it? It's quite another to get anyone with any experience with HAL to believe it.

As I say, if you don't like HAL, don't cruise with them. It's as simple as that.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2009, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
You are some kind of a travel professional Dave? Trying to drum up some business here? Did Holland refuse to sanction your tour proposal?
Nice of you to engage in a debate about me while I am not around... and to take what I said COMPLETELY overboard. Pick and choose what you like, what I said in the overall thread was fair and balanced and in response to other people's comments. Unlike a few posts of yours that I read. If you would like to talk about "actionable" the things you said are libelous and without any merit whatsoever. What one says in a public forum is indeed actionable. Good that I can back mine up with facts. Not one thing you have said to anyone here is anything but conjecture.

Look, you may not like what I said, but it is not fair of you to make wild accusations and jump to such conclusions. I think that says more about you than me. First and foremost, before ANYTHING, I am a cruiser... so far 71 and I thought that people here at Cruise Mates were engaged in a discourse, not a bashing and I clearly said "No ship or line is doomed to be any one thing. Cruising is always changing." I also stated that I had written a review on the other cruise site (where we are well known) about our particular experiences (aboard the Ryndam in March 07.)

The conversation above (and this thread) was asking people about THEIR experiences, not their opinions. I am sorry if mine were different than yours, but I tell you this and post it not because it is bashing, but because it is true. It cost us thousands of Euros so if one snide comment, in combination with the other thoughtful ones, is enough to bring down an entire cruise line...well... wow me.

If you want full disclosure, sure. For many years in America I worked as a cruise line agent. HAL was one of my FAVORITE lines. Then I was headhunted and worked for the corporation that owns them. However for the past 10 years I have not had anything to do with travel.
ONE WEEK AGO I decided to start providing tours in Warnemünde for cruise passengers because there are practically NO English speaking tours other than thru the cruise lines. I am not sure if I need to say that in front of every post where I talk about cruise experiences. As my signature clearly identifies me, I am confused that someone would wonder about my identity. While I do not hide my opinions to make myself look more appealing, I also do not have an agenda other than sharing my CRUISE experiences.

Can you give your qualifications to make up stories and aspersions or call me a liar?

Maybe I posted one comment too many for you, however I NEVER made an allegation that was not true and the intent was not to malign, but to offer another example of how this line has changed. Two people here, because my opinion is different, not only flamed me, they were the ones who actually maligned - NO HAL never declined to work with me, because I never asked them and I only accept 15 people a day - I am not a mass market machine. As for proof of the comment... my review of the Rydam experience from March 07 is floating around the internet so it clearly not some conclusion that I jumped to.

I am not only a very fair person, I am a very nice one. I am responding to two very nasty posts as fairly as I did to HAL. Since they seem to need some kind of PROOF in order to stop their own character assasination here is a run down in a very short form:

For the March 2 sailing of the Ryndam boarding was delayed 8 hours and arriving passengers were given a printed sheet that basically said "The last sailing of the Ryndam had an unusual number of Norovirus cases and the ship is being super cleaned to ensure passenger safety. We were welcome to cancel at the pier, but the boarding would only be delayed a few hours and everything would proceed normally." We asked to speak with someone from the ship in order to make a well informed decision, but were told no one was available. We decided to sail. Only once onboard and the ship had sailed were we given a form saying that the ship would be sailing under Code Red conditions which meant no saunas,no whirlpools, no library. No serving yourself in buffets and there was a seperate line for everything including drinks and condiments; it took 30 minutes to get your food and things and by the time you ate everything was cold. Passengers were asked to wear gloves in the casino in the shops and in the internet cafe (type with plastic gloves on...go on).
I already told that our super clean cabin was filthy..there was hair, sand and finger nail clippings everywhere. Our cabin steward never reappeared the second day and by noon we called housekeeping to find out where he was. Sick.

We met the doctor's sister in law who was sailing with her sister (the wife) and had cocktails. She told us that the ship did not only have virus the past sailing, it had had it since Hawaii (4 sailings - this was confirmed by the front desk). Everything on the ship was covered with a sticky substance, the staff was totally overwhelmed by the extra steps they were required to take. When we asked at the front desk why the full information was not given before we got on board we were told it was a decision from Seattle. We then did something we never thought we would. We got off the ship at the next port. HAL flew us back to LA.

In the van to the airport was a representative from the company. He was the safety officer in charge of the engineers and had been on the ship making inspections. I will not divulge his name, but you can believe it was in my letter to HAL. HE is the one who plainly said..."the problem today is that decisions are made based on revenue rather than customer satisfaction." He went on to say "There are so many people cruising today that for the few customers who are angry enough to write, there are that many in line to try us out. For those that don't sail us again, there are new passengers who will. It is a numbers game." Not only is it NOT a lie, there were three other people in the van. Your "belief" that this could not or did not happen is backed up by fact and witness. I also wrote about it the day we got to LA and posted it on the other cruise site. My words are on file with HAL. They didn't appear to consider it libel.

And to "PROVE" that we are not as mean as some of you have written...baselessly. We decided to give HAL another try last year. We booked them to the Panama Canal. Two days after booking, the ship we booked showed up on the Center for Disease Control's list of ships with inordinately high levels of Norovirus. When we contacted HAL to ask about it, we were told the ship was fine. So who lied.. the US government or HAL? We cancelled our cruise and decided not to cruise a line that is not truthful with passengers.

You may not LIKE that others had bad experiences and have formed opinions based on them... but what is not very nice, is how quickly you jumped to nasty conclusions and felt free to post them. Think about it.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2009, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
"he's totally entitled to his opinion and to post it here."

Yes, trackypup, but he's not entitled to bad mouth a cruise line with a well deserved excellent reputation by repeated, malicious, unsubstantiated allegations. It appears to be a deliberate attempt to harm business reputation and it can be actionable. He's had his day now, on repeated occasions, and it's time to move on. Do you really believe any Holland America executive told this guy, who appears to have some sort of agenda, "...that revenue was more important than customer satisfaction or comfort...?"

That may have been his personal conclusion, but I don't believe that was stated by any HAL exec for a minute. Never happened, and I'd like to see him prove it. No executive in any business which depends on the good will of its customers would ever say such a foolish thing. My long experience with HAL has been exactly opposite. It's very easy to make such an outrageous claim isn't it? It's quite another to get anyone with any experience with HAL to believe it.

As I say, if you don't like HAL, don't cruise with them. It's as simple as that.
Actually, now that I re-read this entire thread, you have been rude to everyone so now I don't feel so bad. As a "former barrister" you should know better than to jump to conclusions, as you did with everyone here who has posted. Each and every one of my comments was in context to the ones previous. They were balanced and not only negative as another poster also suggested. Yours... totally baseless, and you make an awful lot of personal comments about other people who you do not know. If this is how you behave in a forum, I hope to never run into you on a ship. 100 days does not make you an expert, nor does it disqualify other people's thoughts and opinions. They are not whiners or complainers when they have legitimate thoughts. Shame on you.

Just because you like a line does not mean that they do not make mistakes and should be taken to task for it. The thread is called PROBLEMS WITH HAL... so that would imply that people who come here are going to discuss their problems. Attacking fellow posters only makes you look silly.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2009, 10:30 AM
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You are absolutely right, Trackpup. This is a site for problems. When we bring up problems, we are bashed. I have great loyalty for NCL, but I know they are not perfect. Maybe some of the people who can't deal with criticism of HAL, work for HAL.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2009, 11:29 AM
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As the title of the topic states "Problems With HAL Cruises" this thread is for that purpose so the poster has every right to state his grievance, he stated it, and one poster didn't like what was said and took a shot at the griever, so griever fired back,now let the matter drop and move on.

Hows that for Lawyer talk.
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Old June 24th, 2009, 12:48 PM
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I am starting to get scared of posting things... nearly everyone posting here has, in my experience, always had valuable things to say on various topics. Although I may not have agreed with everyone's opinions on all topics, I think everyone could perhaps take a breath and chalk this all up to getting waaaay out of control... RESET.

It is a shame that on these sites we are unable to 'take back' our comments. They are out there 'forever'.

Smile! We all love cruising... that is why we are all on this site.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2009, 01:05 PM
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Dave I will ignore your nasty comments about me.

It now comes out that your original allegation that:

"We simply made the decision for ourselves after being lied to and shown that revenue was more important than customer satisfaction or comfort... an exec there said that to us. I won't cruise with a company that outright lies, regardless of how "nice" the ships might be." Was at best grossly misleading and intentionally so.

NOW the truth comes out. According to your current story, It was not an HAL "exec" at all, it was a mere safety officer, an engineer, who has nothing whatever to do with customer relations or company management. A man you engaged in a conversation in a van to the airport. He made an offhand comment about the cruise industry in general, Not about HAL in particular, and you used it here totally out of context to condemn the management of HAL, (as opposed to all those other perfect cruise lines).

Then you accuse ME of being precisely what YOU are guilty of. You say that I engage in debate with you when you are not around and take what you say completely 'overboard.' well it seems to me, that is precisely what you have been doing to Holland America. They are not here to defend themselves at all, and as I have just amply demonstrated, far from being a 'fair person' as you claim you are, you twist and manipulate the 'facts' to suit your needs, even if that requires giving a false impression.


Meanwhile here are a few things that I believe are actual indisputable facts (just IMHO.):

All Cruise Lines try to cover the fact that they have Noro virus problems, and they all try very hard to deal with the problem as best they can.

All cruises lines are going through economic tough times right now, and they are trying to stay in business and make money, so, in a sense, what the safety officer told you is true across the board. There are NOT however currently tons of passengers lined up waiting 'to try us out.' That's why they are practically giving cruises away right now. People have lost lots of money, and cruisers are relatively scarce right now so competition is much higher than usual.

Have a good day sir, and by all means continue to Justify your conduct by painting yourself as a saint, and anyone who disagrees with you as a demon.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2009, 02:22 PM
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"Smile! We all love cruising... that is why we are all on this site."
Manya, I agree wholeheartedly. I certainly meant no offense to anyone, including Dave. I merely felt that since HAL is not here to defend themselves, someone should give some defense to Holland America's hard earned and very well deserved reputation as being one of the finest companies in the industry.

My wife and I have spent months at sea with them around the world and we know them Quite well. Accusing them of being constant and chronic liars is 180 degrees off from our lengthy experience with them. Of course they are not perfect, but I have yet to find the cruise line that is. If anyone finds such a line please let us all know
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Old June 24th, 2009, 03:42 PM
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Has I stated in earlier post, we all have our off days and moments. I've only sailed with Hal 3 times before but currently booked for 19 days on the Zanddam in October. I know from past experiance that I'm going to have a great time no mater what. Not only from the staff on board but because of my fellow cruisers. Yes I've had a few issues while on board but never enough to make me choose not to sail with hal again. Plus I still prefer HAL over other lines has they actually look and feel like Ships rather than floating hotels. Cheers to all and a toast to HAL.
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Old June 24th, 2009, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
"Smile! We all love cruising... that is why we are all on this site."
Manya, I agree wholeheartedly. I certainly meant no offense to anyone, including Dave. I merely felt that since HAL is not here to defend themselves, someone should give some defense to Holland America's hard earned and very well deserved reputation as being one of the finest companies in the industry.

My wife and I have spent months at sea with them around the world and we know them Quite well. Accusing them of being constant and chronic liars is 180 degrees off from our lengthy experience with them. Of course they are not perfect, but I have yet to find the cruise line that is. If anyone finds such a line please let us all know
You make it extremely difficult to simply ignore you. The man was indeed a HAL exec. Do you not think that people who once served on board don't become executives on land? Do you not think that the most qualified person to be in charge of the ships engineers would be someone who once was one? The conclusions you continue to jump to are amazing. You have obviously never worked for a cruise line, but they are indeed full of people who also worked on the ships.

You can try and demean every one here who has shared a story including me, but it isn't going to make them less true. If you want to defend HAL then simply share your happy stories, stop attacking those of us who have had a problem and were ASKED to share them.

Furthermore, our incident happened in 2007, not during the crisis. Please read more carefully.

You seem determined to make me into some kind of villain because I shared a story and an opinion. If you don't mean to offend people, then stop questioning their credibility to tell their own tales. Rather than ignoring what I wrote, you should have had the temerity to apologize. I can see this is a dead horse, yet it is very difficult to ignore someone who consistently maligns you for no reason. You were not there. You are not a part of my experience, so kindly limit your comments to your own life... or at the very least, have the decency to pose a question rather than an allegation. A false one at that.
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Old June 24th, 2009, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsalt
As the title of the topic states "Problems With HAL Cruises" this thread is for that purpose so the poster has every right to state his grievance, he stated it, and one poster didn't like what was said and took a shot at the griever, so griever fired back,now let the matter drop and move on.

Hows that for Lawyer talk.
Sorry, I know you are right, but sometimes it is hard to simply ignore someone questioning not only your experiences, but your character; especially when they don't know you. I am sorry if it is boring, but I don't know how to allow someone to publicly call me a liar. I have said my peace and hope the rest of you can tell the good from the not. I promise to ignore every further comment from that person.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old June 24th, 2009, 05:15 PM
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Dave I'm not attacking you, and I haven't attacked you. I have no reason to do that. Don't you think you are sounding just a tad paranoid right now? It's OK for you to insult and demean me repeatedly at your whim -- but I dare not disagree with you?

No Dave, IMHO the guy was NOT an exec. An executive is a Vice president or above who has the authority to speak for the management of a company and its board of directors, to set forth the policy of the company -- that does not include a mere salaried safety engineer or even the master of a ship.

Besides, by your own admission, the guy was engaged in an ordinary conversation with you and he expressed an opinion, (probably an accurate one) about the cruise industry in general, he was not purporting to state HAL board policy, nor could he do so. He most certainly was NOT speaking for or on behalf of HAL, or its policy toward its customers!

You see it differently, and that is your privilege, but that does not make you right. It just makes it your opinion, nothing more.

You are not the only person on the planet, yours is not the only opinion that matters and there is no need at all to demonize anyone who dares to disagree with you. I learned those lessons many years ago son, and I sincerely think you could benefit from learning it too. I mean that in an entirly friendly way.

I had hoped to tell you about our experience in Warnemunde years ago, but you have chosen to view me as an enemy. Pity!
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 08:48 AM
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My name is LaDell check out my pictures with an Hal cruise (horrifying). Tom is right the difference between a good and bad cruise is how someone handles issues as they arise. I have not gotten any justice.
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Old September 10th, 2009, 05:58 PM
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Unfortuately the cheerleaders that are on the other message boards are just as bad on this one. No one is allowed to criitcise their beloved cruise line even when justified. Just like the cruise that all the crew jumped in the lifeboats and left all the passengers stranded. They were shocked that their favourite ship and their well loved staff behaved like this. People whould be allowed to come on this board with legitimate complaints without being rediculed. I love HAL and am taking another cruise with them in October but realise we are a paying customer and nothing more.
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Old September 10th, 2009, 06:53 PM
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Cheerleaders? Let me get this straight Sedavisoes: You think everyone has a right to make all sorts of negative allegations against a cruise line, BUT no one is allowed to exercise the right of free speech (granted by the First Amendment to the united States Constitution) to dare to disagree, even when our own experience is quite the opposite? What in the world does this have to do with the crew jumping in the lifeboats and abandoning the passengers? Have you heard anyone here defend that outrageous conduct? No you have not. did that occur on HAL? No it did not.

We certainly agree on one thing, we love HAL, and will cruise with them again -- and they are a business for profit and we are customers and nothing more..
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Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
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Old September 11th, 2009, 11:56 AM
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You just proved my point, Happy Sailing..
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Old September 11th, 2009, 05:04 PM
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I do understand that the HAL cruise line has a lot of loyal customers however, their is no need to rely on the validity of my complaints. I have posted pictures as proof of my dissatisfaction. I have provided these pictures to the cruise line as well. Due, to their following they feel that it was unnecessary to compensate me properly. In this turbulent economy it is unfair for consumers to not receive the full investment on their returns. Some people are not able to take vacation often and then to receive these stateroom conditions is unreasonable.
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Old September 11th, 2009, 05:46 PM
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Sedavisoes, anyone has the right to criticize any cruise line they want here -- but they don't have the right to do it unchallenged. Criticism is always subject to question is it not? Happy sailing to you too
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Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
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Old September 18th, 2009, 07:08 PM
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Volendam ,,Alaska
Maasdam ,,Canada
Zuiderdam,,repositioning Vancouver to LA
Eurodam,,Baltics..

Problems,,,,the cruises ended.

Seriously,,maybe I am too easy but never had anything to gripe or complain about on any ship. Services, people.,,everything was great.

Okay,,if I have to come up with something,,it would either be the internet not working in the Baltic because of where we were,,,,,or,,,,the Russian fighter jet that buzzed our ship right after we left St Petersberg (actually the next day). That was during the invasion of Georgia. Pretty spooky.
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Old September 18th, 2009, 08:50 PM
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There ya go Ron A man after my own heart, there is always something to complain about if you look hard enough, but there is always some great memory too Bon voyage
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Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
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Old September 19th, 2009, 12:51 PM
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Default Problems With HAL Cruises

Lets get over it guys...HAL is a great cruise line but none of us are perfect including HAL. If I have a problem with someone I take it up with that person or company... I am not out looking to bash anyone or looking for sympathy.

Lets move on and look forward to that next HAL cruise 8)
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