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  #31 (permalink)  
Old March 24th, 2010, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by felix_the_cat View Post
Sorry, I'm not going to buy that. If they are paying that kind of money then they are fools. It is not necessary to even print the darn pictures until they're bought. They can be digitally previewed and the customer can choose which ones they want before they are printed.

The cruiseline and photographic company know full well only a tiny percentage of all those photos they print are going to be sold. It just isn't necessary to print masses of non-used photos.

I don't sympathize with them at all. $40 is not worth the cost of an 8 x 10 photo that isn't that good to begin with.

As for the cost of staff and equipment, that's the name of the game. My DH has a heck of a lot of tools in his trade too and he doesn't use that as an excuse. Those cameras etc last a long time. They are written off on taxes. $750,000 divided over how many years and how many ships?

I've spoken to too many photographers - those pictures are not worth $5 - never mind $40.
Felix,

Remember that I agree with you on this issue. The prices are ridiculous and the print quality is generally so-so at best. I'm only explaining WHY the situation is what it is.

As an added insult to the photo concessions, they are locked into contracts that force them to pay guaranteed amounts to the cruise line - even if they don't sell many photos or make any money.
This will only speed up their bankruptcy and disappearance from the ships.

Last edited by Bruce Chafkin1; March 24th, 2010 at 12:59 AM.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 03:28 AM
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Bruce,

Thanks for the information. I did not know that photography was a concession.

Take care,
Mike
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Old March 24th, 2010, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
Felix,

Remember that I agree with you on this issue. The prices are ridiculous and the print quality is generally so-so at best. I'm only explaining WHY the situation is what it is.

As an added insult to the photo concessions, they are locked into contracts that force them to pay guaranteed amounts to the cruise line - even if they don't sell many photos or make any money.
This will only speed up their bankruptcy and disappearance from the ships.
Hi Bruce,

There are a couple of issues I find repungnent. One is those who steal the pictures. I would dearly love to see them caught and let everyone on the ship know. The second, and I've seen them myself, is those that take photos of the photos. They are also thieves and as such should be ashamed of themselves.

I have bought pictures, grumbling about it (but not to the photographer or the cashier - I'm aware they don't set the prices). However, once they went from $20 to $40 I just can't justify it anymore and will only use our own from now on.

And you see, that's where the new problem lies. As much as $20 was high I would pay it - double it and I won't. There are many like me - I guess I consider it pricing yourself out of the market.

I wasn't aware it is another concession, but I guess I should have realized that. The sad part, as you say these 2 remaining photography companies will go bankrupt and the silly cruiselines will lose another source of revenue with their greed.

I do like the formal pictures. We have almost always bought at least one along with our freebee coupon. Now, we won't anymore.

As for the equipment, when I owned a restaurant I had a fortune in equipment - I had to factor that into my pricing yes, but not enough to price myself out of the market.
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44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

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Old March 24th, 2010, 10:10 PM
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I've own a business and I charged what I thought what was fair for my time, energy and skill. I've had potential clients who thought my fees were to high and chose not to use my services...and that's o.k it was their option. But I didn't say, "Oh you feel my fee's are too high...o.k..what do you feel is fair? Trust me, that didn't happen.
I don't know. In my opinion there is a difference between offering a service or owning a business not every person is specialized in and charge a certain price. Taking portrait pictures on a cruise ship is not a high sophisticated art, (I'm not talking about a sunset in the Rocky Mountains) Come on, half of you at least knows how to take some decent pictures, I take pics with my SLV just as good and can work on them to correct things on the computer later. I saw snap shots from people here that even looked like being taken by a professional. Almost everybody can do this nowadays. It's not a van Gogh. If you count by the hour and ink and photo paper, those photographers are highly overpaid, even though I know it's not their fault.

I agree with you that the cruise line is not our friend and that it is all about making money. But I keep thinking if they would just sell those pics for way less wouldn't it make more people wanting to buy them? Wouldn't the profit by the end of the cruise be much higher? Let's say there are 2000 people on the ship and everyone would at least buy one pic for $40.00 that would be $80.000. Of course, not all of the 2000 people would buy one because of the price, so let's say they make $40.000 USD only. Selling these pics for 10 Dollars, everyone (or more people than before) would probably buy even 2 or more and now they make 60.000 already if not a 100.000 because they offer packages or people want more single pics. A ship photographer should not make that kinda money, no matter if they get to keep that money or not. It's not like they take pics 24/7 and the printing does a computer nowadays, look how fast they print you hundred pictures at Costco (with ink and paper). A college professor should make that kinda money. I'm exaggerating here to make my point :-)

Just because you can doesn't make it right to rip people off and overcharge, that goes for everything in life.

I agree on everything else, stay away from them or these areas if you don't want to buy a picture and don't steal them either. Stealing from somebody is not a nice thing to do no matter where you are and what you do.
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Last edited by Spectra; March 24th, 2010 at 10:28 PM.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 11:41 PM
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I view the photo thing like most all other things that have a price tag-- whether ashore or afloat--- if you want it and you know how much it costs and are willing to pay for it, then do so and forget it.
If you want it, know how much it costs and aren't willing to pay the price, then too, forget it.
I'm sure there are dozens of things other than ship photos that most of us see on a regular basis that we look at, see the price tag and decide if we are willing to pay the price or not and make a decision one way or the other. I wouldn't buy something from a ship, Walmart or anywhere else and then complain about what I had to pay for it. I would make the choice and live with it, because it was my choice to buy, not the sellers. Nor would I look at an item, decide the price was too high and then agonize because I was unwiling to pay what it cost to have it.
The prices are what they are-- you simply have a choice to make--buy it or leave it. The ship merely offers an item for sale--the choice to buy or not is entirely up to the pasenger.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Spectra View Post
I don't know. In my opinion there is a difference between offering a service or owning a business not every person is specialized in and charge a certain price. Taking portrait pictures on a cruise ship is not a high sophisticated art, (I'm not talking about a sunset in the Rocky Mountains) Come on, half of you at least knows how to take some decent pictures, I take pics with my SLV just as good and can work on them to correct things on the computer later. I saw snap shots from people here that even looked like being taken by a professional. Almost everybody can do this nowadays. It's not a van Gogh. If you count by the hour and ink and photo paper, those photographers are highly overpaid, even though I know it's not their fault.

I agree with you that the cruise line is not our friend and that it is all about making money. But I keep thinking if they would just sell those pics for way less wouldn't it make more people wanting to buy them? Wouldn't the profit by the end of the cruise be much higher? Let's say there are 2000 people on the ship and everyone would at least buy one pic for $40.00 that would be $80.000. Of course, not all of the 2000 people would buy one because of the price, so let's say they make $40.000 USD only. Selling these pics for 10 Dollars, everyone (or more people than before) would probably buy even 2 or more and now they make 60.000 already if not a 100.000 because they offer packages or people want more single pics. A ship photographer should not make that kinda money, no matter if they get to keep that money or not. It's not like they take pics 24/7 and the printing does a computer nowadays, look how fast they print you hundred pictures at Costco (with ink and paper). A college professor should make that kinda money. I'm exaggerating here to make my point :-)

Just because you can doesn't make it right to rip people off and overcharge, that goes for everything in life.

I agree on everything else, stay away from them or these areas if you don't want to buy a picture and don't steal them either. Stealing from somebody is not a nice thing to do no matter where you are and what you do.
Let's apply your logic to BMW. They want to sell more cars. But they are quite expensive. So if they lowered their price from say $40,000 to $25,000, wouldn't they sell far more cars and make more profits?
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Old March 25th, 2010, 10:26 AM
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A college professor should make that kinda money. I'm exaggerating here to make my point :-)
As a college professor, I couldn't agree more! ;-)
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old March 25th, 2010, 11:57 AM
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Let's apply your logic to BMW. They want to sell more cars. But they are quite expensive. So if they lowered their price from say $40,000 to $25,000, wouldn't they sell far more cars and make more profits?
Being German and usually in Germany. Do you know what a BMW costs in Germany? 25 to 50% more than in America. You know why? If the BMW would cost here the same as in Germany, no American would buy one or only the really rich ones. But the price here in America is a bit closer to what that car really is worth. We in Europe pay more so we compensate that lower price over here and in other countries. You have no idea how pi**ed we are about this, but well, if you want to have a BMW, you'll buy one of course. BMW wants to remain special, same goes for Mercedes and Porsche. They don't actually want everyone to have one, like a Volkswagen. They want to be l u x u r y. They made 2 or 3 models that the average person can afford but other than those: BMW means you have money! (or you're in debts that even your grandchildren will pay off for them) Do you know what a Levis jeans costs in Germany? Depending on the type, 80 to 160 Euro, which are 106 to 230 Dollars. The Levis 501 is the most expensive one. Would you buy one for that price? If I ever meet Johann Levi Strauss, who was a German, I'm gonna give it to him ** A ship picture cannot compete with a BMW, since I can take my own or ask someone to take a picture of me. But I am not able to build my own BMW. So I have to buy one. I do feel sorry though, for those 2 companies in photo business that are not broke yet. It's not ok that the cruise lines abuse them like this. $40 for a pic is far from being smart and it is bound to happen what happened to the other ones.
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Last edited by Spectra; March 25th, 2010 at 12:07 PM.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old March 25th, 2010, 12:16 PM
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Being German and usually in Germany. Do you know what a BMW costs in Germany? 25 to 50% more than in America. You know why? If the BMW would cost here the same as in Germany, no American would buy one or only the really rich ones. But the price here in America is a bit closer to what that car really is worth. We in Europe pay more so we compensate that lower price over here and in other countries. You have no idea how pi**ed we are about this, but well, if you want to have a BMW, you'll buy one of course. BMW wants to remain special, same goes for Mercedes and Porsche. They don't actually want everyone to have one, like a Volkswagen. They want to be l u x u r y. They made 2 or 3 models that the average person can afford but other than those: BMW means you have money! (or you're in debts that even your grandchildren will pay off for them) Do you know what a Levis jeans costs in Germany? Depending on the type, 80 to 160 Euro, which are 106 to 230 Dollars. The Levis 501 is the most expensive one. Would you buy one for that price? If I ever meet Johann Levi Strauss, who was a German, I'm gonna give it to him ** A ship picture cannot compete with a BMW, since I can take my own or ask someone to take a picture of me. But I am not able to build my own BMW. So I have to buy one. I do feel sorry though, for those 2 companies in photo business that are not broke yet. It's not ok that the cruise lines abuse them like this. $40 for a pic is far from being smart and it is bound to happen what happened to the other ones.
I'm just going to jump in here for one minute - European's have a higher income than Canadians and Americans. Look at the wages for a server for example. (Now I can only speak for Candians) but general min. wages for a server are about to be $10.25 and for a liquor server $9.60. I do know that in England and Australia they make twice that amount. Hence you are comparing apples to oranges as the wage levels are completely different - dollars vs Euros vs sterling.
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44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old March 25th, 2010, 08:15 PM
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Is it really necessary to continue this line of thinking? Either buy a photo or not, your choice. Let's end this discussion. Thanks.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old March 25th, 2010, 08:22 PM
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I am sorry, I didn't intend this to become a discussion about wages and countries but I cannot let this unanswered because it is very wrong.

I can only talk about Germany and not "Europeans" but I can assure you that a person in Poland, Greece, Belgium or Portugal wouldn't even get close to what same person makes in Germany and those countries are in the European Union too. We (Germans) do make more money but our cost of living is higher too. Much higher. I make like 200 Euro more than an American at same age and qualification. That's far from 20 to 50% of what a BMW costs that was actually invented and built in Germany. In Germany we pay 9 Dollars a gallon at the gas station. Do you? Every American would be broke by now, especially with those gas guzzlers, over there it would bring you straight into the poorhouse. German tax is 19% and even though our streets are smooth like a baby butt (this is where part of the money goes to) it still hurts. Add 19% sales tax on top of that BMW, how would you like that?
OK, I'm gonna stop crying now, hehehe. At the end of the month we have the same money left or not. That doesn't explain why a BMW costs that much more in Germany than here though. Comparing a fine piece of German engineering with a ship photo that could be the apples and oranges story......

Now let's go off the BMW, shall we? I cannot build my own so have to buy one. Pictures are a cheap product today and everyone can do it and this was one of my points why I thought of those $40 for one picture as crazy.

Before I forget it again, Kimbopolo, if I had any say in this you would get that money for educating people. Cannot be honored enough.

Had a nice bumper sticker in front of me today:

Don't steal! The Government hates competitors!
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Last edited by Spectra; March 25th, 2010 at 08:33 PM.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 09:24 PM
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Spectra, loved your bumper sticker!! Evidently someone from Germany has been to The U.S. and had been keeping up with what's going on here with our Congress, C.E.O's, Bankers, etc. and decided to make up the sticker.
It says it all for this country.
If I can find one, I'll mail it to my Congressman.
Thanks for the smile !!
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Old March 25th, 2010, 10:03 PM
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Thanks Spectra!
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Old March 25th, 2010, 10:36 PM
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Oh no Ron, you got me all wrong. I live in Texas for now and I had this truck in front of me on the road today and he had that sticker on his bumper thingy in the back of his pick up. Probably shouldn't have called it "bumper" what's that thing called in the back in proper English? Sorry for the confusion, it was an American who had that sticker, not a German and I laughed about it too because it suits every government in every country.....I guess.

He had like 20 more stickers

"Honk if I'm paying your mortgage",
"Please pay your taxes, 12 million immigrants depend on you",
"I keep my money, car and gun, you can keep the change" (whatever that means?)
"In America, anyone can become president. But that's just a risk we have to live with."
"Why can't we ship 12 million illegals across the border? Mexico did!"
"I'd tell you to go to hell, but I work there and don't want to see you every day"


you see we had some red lights but he just had too many of them to recall...

Kimbopolo, you're very welcome!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old March 26th, 2010, 07:20 AM
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Love those bumper stickers!!!!
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44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Skipper's Mom View Post
Is it really necessary to continue this line of thinking? Either buy a photo or not, your choice. Let's end this discussion. Thanks.
You really don't have to read this thread. It's a nice civil discussion no matter what it's about and there is nothing wrong with that.
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44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
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RCL
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NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

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Old March 26th, 2010, 09:30 AM
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I thought this was about buying/not buying ship photos, not what people are paid around the world. I enjoy reading the various posts as long as they stay focused on the OP.

Thanks for your kind encouragement.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipper's Mom View Post
I thought this was about buying/not buying ship photos, not what people are paid around the world. I enjoy reading the various posts as long as they stay focused on the OP.

Thanks for your kind encouragement.
But I posted the orginial post and I find the conversation interesting in that it shows that cruising is not the only place where prices are found to be outrageous.
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Celebrity Constellation - March 17 followed by Celebrity Reflection - March 22

44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:15 AM
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Spectra, I love the bumper stickers--don't care if it was spotted in Texas or in Greece--it says a lot!!
Thanks for posting that!
To the ones who are so uptight about this little chit chat back and forth, there's nothing wrong with having a civil and humorous discussion once in a while. And, like the radio or T.V., if you don't like what you see or hear, turn the dial or click the remote !!
Love, peace and harmony and all that to all, whether you like this thread or not!
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Old March 26th, 2010, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectra View Post

"Honk if I'm paying your mortgage",
"Please pay your taxes, 12 million immigrants depend on you",
"I keep my money, car and gun, you can keep the change" (whatever that means?)
"In America, anyone can become president. But that's just a risk we have to live with."
"Why can't we ship 12 million illegals across the border? Mexico did!"
"I'd tell you to go to hell, but I work there and don't want to see you every day"


you see we had some red lights but he just had too many of them to recall...

Kimbopolo, you're very welcome!
Only in Texas !
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Old March 26th, 2010, 08:57 PM
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What I don't like about the photo shop is that you have to buy an 8" X 10" to be able to buy smaller photo's. I don't need an 8" x 10" photo of us! We know what we look like ! What I would like would be 3" X 5" photos that I could send to my family and friends.

Why couldn't we buy 4 3"x5" photos for the same price as an 8"x10"? They should all fit on the same page... .
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:41 PM
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I gotta throw this one in and then I promise I'll get of the bumper stickers.
Was driving around the other day behind a pick-up with a tough looking character driving it--
His bumper sticker said " If you don't like Hank Williams Jr. you can kiss my a## " -----I don't like Hank Jr. but I didn't tell him that !!
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Old March 27th, 2010, 05:32 AM
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What I don't like about the photo shop is that you have to buy an 8" X 10" to be able to buy smaller photo's. I don't need an 8" x 10" photo of us! We know what we look like ! What I would like would be 3" X 5" photos that I could send to my family and friends.

Why couldn't we buy 4 3"x5" photos for the same price as an 8"x10"? They should all fit on the same page... .
Fern,

You are right. They should be able to do it. But the printing machines they use are automated and very difficult to change. With the volume of photos they must print and process, time is very short.
I have had long discussions with the cruise line managers and the photo concession managers and it seems that contractual details do not allow any variation from what has been previously agreed - so far as sizes offered and prices charged are concerned.

This is all rather ridiculous, but you see what happens when corporate geniuses and lawyers get involved.
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Old March 27th, 2010, 09:21 AM
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Default we used to buy them

but not anymore. My better half, my beloved says we looked better then, so we can look at those! Haha, he's funny!
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