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  #31 (permalink)  
Old November 27th, 2010, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by suse View Post
Personally, I agree with Sail. There is nothing militant about preferring smoke-free zones on your expensive verandah. Like I said, we've had a hard time with smokers on all sides of us and it is just not fair to have it ruin our pleasure. Sure, we can go with Celebrity. I've done that but not liked the line as much.
So, this December, I found a solution. For the first time, I've booked a land vacation. I'll take my money elsewhere. No sour grapes, here; I just can't stand being around that filthy habit. Hope HAL starts to change things a bit.........but I doubt it's going to happen.
Sus.. I have no issue with people who hate the idea of smoking anywhere. But you are doing exactly what I was suggesting the point was.... sending your message to the cruise line, by letting your money speak for you.

My point all along in this discussion... the cruise lines will change their policies the fastest if you don't give them your money, and let them know why.

By continuing to support them financially people are giving them at least tepid support for their current policies to continue. Even if loyal customers complain, but keep booking, they'll think they can keep them as customers and perhaps attract another audience as well.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 11:04 AM
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Question Smoke free land vacations?

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Originally Posted by suse View Post
Personally, I agree with Sail. There is nothing militant about preferring smoke-free zones on your expensive verandah. Like I said, we've had a hard time with smokers on all sides of us and it is just not fair to have it ruin our pleasure. Sure, we can go with Celebrity. I've done that but not liked the line as much.
So, this December, I found a solution. For the first time, I've booked a land vacation. I'll take my money elsewhere. No sour grapes, here; I just can't stand being around that filthy habit. Hope HAL starts to change things a bit.........but I doubt it's going to happen.
Interesting. Where have you found a totally smoke free environment for your land vacation?

I was in Missouri recently. Lots of tourist attractions there. The restaurants are usually divided into smoking and non-smoking. How does that help you?

We have many wonderful spots in California that are as smoke free as the ships are. Maybe you can visit one of them. But you may still find yourself standing on the beach in Monterey or at the overlook in Yosemite with a smoker standing next to you.

Few hotels feature balcony rooms, so I guess you won't have that problem. On the other hand, you could simply get a standard outside cabin on the ship with no balcony and solve your problem that way, couldn't you?

If your problem with smoke is so serious that smoke in the outside air bothers you that much... maybe you will just have to "staycation" in your own home with the windows closed and the air conditioner on. The Travel Channel has some good shows on it.

HMMM.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 03:11 PM
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Sus.. I have no issue with people who hate the idea of smoking anywhere. But you are doing exactly what I was suggesting the point was.... sending your message to the cruise line, by letting your money speak for you.

My point all along in this discussion... the cruise lines will change their policies the fastest if you don't give them your money, and let them know why.

By continuing to support them financially people are giving them at least tepid support for their current policies to continue. Even if loyal customers complain, but keep booking, they'll think they can keep them as customers and perhaps attract another audience as well.
I see what you're trying to say. In our case, after the last smokey HAL b2b, my husband told me not to book any more HAL cruises until they ban smoking on balconies & in cabins. Our next cruise was on Celebrity, and we reeeeeeeeeeally enjoyed the fresh sea air on our balcony :-).
Still, I believe that it makes sense for customers to be proactive even if they're not threatening to take their business elsewhere. If you love everything else about a business except one thing, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to tell the company about it, and ask for changes. If more nonsmokers were more assertive with HAL, I think they'd get more consideration, yes, even short of a boycot.
HAL has some awesome itineraries that Celebrity doesn't offer, that I'd love to try. In the interim, I still send an occasional email to HAL, asking if they're any closer to a ban on cabin & balcony smoking, because I'd very much like to book a nice long HAL cruise when they do.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 06:57 PM
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Now that the smoking portion of the OP's question has been beaten to death, here are a few answers to the other part of their original question....
Anevia - News & Events - Press releases


http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/2...-carnival.html
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Old November 27th, 2010, 07:48 PM
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Interesting. Where have you found a totally smoke free environment for your land vacation?

I was in Missouri recently. Lots of tourist attractions there. The restaurants are usually divided into smoking and non-smoking. How does that help you?

We have many wonderful spots in California that are as smoke free as the ships are. Maybe you can visit one of them. But you may still find yourself standing on the beach in Monterey or at the overlook in Yosemite with a smoker standing next to you.

Few hotels feature balcony rooms, so I guess you won't have that problem. On the other hand, you could simply get a standard outside cabin on the ship with no balcony and solve your problem that way, couldn't you?

If your problem with smoke is so serious that smoke in the outside air bothers you that much... maybe you will just have to "staycation" in your own home with the windows closed and the air conditioner on. The Travel Channel has some good shows on it.

HMMM.
I guess I am being challenged here. I am going to a beach resort that allows no smoking in rooms,and nowhere on the premises. I'm not sure you needed to "smart reply" me unless you are a discouraged smoker who hates nonsmokers. Whatever. You may think smoking is a kick, but try spending some time in some ICU wards in hospitals. You may lose your lust for that tobacco product when you see people gag and beg for breath. I am so done with this thread. Ugh. I agree with Usha, tho. She's always a voice of reason.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 10:14 PM
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Thank you all very much for the lively discussion. I think it is time to become more vocal with HAL about their smoking policy. I did not have a good experience with Celebrity therefore I do not see myself going back with them anytime soon. I did however love their stance on smoking. Here in Florida smoking has been banned in all food establishments. Many other attractions and indoor venues have banned smoking too. It is the right thing to do. It is a disgusting and poses a health risk to other passengers. The vast majority of cruises sail with a majority of non-smokers. I think we should all voice our opinions with Holland America. Leave one smoking room and ban smoking from balconies, and all other indoor venues. Thank you all for your input.

Ryan
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Old November 28th, 2010, 09:49 AM
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It should be noted that Celebrity isn't the only "non smoking" choice. I just used it as example.

There's also RCI, Oceania Cruise Line, and MSC Cruise Lines who have VERY restrictive smoking policies now.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 12:29 PM
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We did fill out a smoking survey but heard nothing about interactive TV. In fact, we had more channels on other lines. We could not even check our total bill nor order anything from room service or any other service via TV in our cabin.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 02:08 PM
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Talking Non smoking resort

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I guess I am being challenged here. I am going to a beach resort that allows no smoking in rooms,and nowhere on the premises. I'm not sure you needed to "smart reply" me unless you are a discouraged smoker who hates nonsmokers. Whatever. You may think smoking is a kick, but try spending some time in some ICU wards in hospitals. You may lose your lust for that tobacco product when you see people gag and beg for breath. I am so done with this thread. Ugh. I agree with Usha, tho. She's always a voice of reason.
Goodness -- not being challenged. Just asked a simple question. Thanks for the answer. It was information that was not in your previous post. The fact that a beach resort can survive with that sort of restriction but a cruise ship apparently can not is very interesting. I guess there are a whole lot more beach resorts than cruise ships, and the average occupancy of any particular one is smaller.

And I am not sure you need to try to classify me. Happens that I quit smoking many years ago. I don't think it is a kick and have no lust for it. Why would you think that?

If you only want support for your own position, and don't want to discuss with people who differ from you, I guess you are right ... this is not a good thread for you. Bye.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by suse View Post
I guess I am being challenged here. I am going to a beach resort that allows no smoking in rooms,and nowhere on the premises. I'm not sure you needed to "smart reply" me unless you are a discouraged smoker who hates nonsmokers. Whatever. You may think smoking is a kick, but try spending some time in some ICU wards in hospitals. You may lose your lust for that tobacco product when you see people gag and beg for breath. I am so done with this thread. Ugh. I agree with Usha, tho. She's always a voice of reason.
Did'nt see any "smart reply" so am alomst afraid to ask my questoin. Getting past your post's hostile tone to PP, could you share name of resort pls?
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Old December 18th, 2010, 09:22 PM
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We have been hearing rumors surrounding a more restrictive smoking policy and an interactive television poised to go fleet wide. Anyone else here this?

Just back from the Eurodam this afternoon.

I asked the Hotel Manager about interactive tv and he said the Eurodam and Noordam are wired for it but it has not been actived yet. Eventually I guess all ships will have it.

Heard nothing about more restricted smoking, but they are still including the form asking for your opinion in the On Board Survey.

Even though I am a smoker, I do wish they would ban it in the Casino. I saw 2 women at the slots one day dropping their cigarette ashes on the carpeting even though both had ashtrays beside them. I guess they can't multitask - pull the handle on the machine and flick the ash into the ashtray at the same time.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 04:49 PM
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We are just home from Maasdam and apparently HAL is listening and making further smoking changes.

The Bar at Crows Nest on Maasdam always permitted smoking but no more. There are a few tables on one side where smoking is permitted but not at the bar. We were able to enjoy sitting there one evening where we had avoided it in the past.

The smoking in the casino is awful and I could not even think of playing any machines our entire cruise. It doesn't take many smokers to pollute the air but it chases away a lot of people who cannot tolerate the smoke.

Maybe they are close to the 'tipping point' where they start to lose too many non-smokers vs how many smokers are gambling what sums. There is a fine line when the smoke will cost them too much and I suspect they are very close to that point now.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 06:38 PM
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We are just home from Maasdam and apparently HAL is listening and making further smoking changes.

The Bar at Crows Nest on Maasdam always permitted smoking but no more. There are a few tables on one side where smoking is permitted but not at the bar. We were able to enjoy sitting there one evening where we had avoided it in the past.

The smoking in the casino is awful and I could not even think of playing any machines our entire cruise. It doesn't take many smokers to pollute the air but it chases away a lot of people who cannot tolerate the smoke.

Maybe they are close to the 'tipping point' where they start to lose too many non-smokers vs how many smokers are gambling what sums. There is a fine line when the smoke will cost them too much and I suspect they are very close to that point now.
On our recent cruise on the Zuiderdam, there was NO SMOKING in the Crow's Nest. What a wondeful concept.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 08:37 PM
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I don't believe there was any smoking in the Crows Nest on the Eurodam as my daughter, who detests the smell of smoke, would have sat up there most afternoons playing trivia and reading.

Actually I thought smoking had been banned in the Crows Nest on all the ships.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 09:33 PM
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When we were on Maasdam August/September, smoking was permitted at the bar.

They still permit it at a few tables on one side but no longer at the bar.

We were on Eurodam in October but never went to Crows Nest so don't know if they permitted smoking but my guess is no.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 11:50 AM
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Didn't mean to be hostile, sorry. This subject makes me a little crazy.
Try the Ritz Carlton sometime. No smoking anywhere. I suppose there was some on the beach, but easy to avoid that.
I appreciate a smoke-free environment, and plan to book my vacations accordingly from now on.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 02:16 PM
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Just got off the Zuiderdam a week ago. Only smoking I saw was in the casino and on the open decks.
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Old January 4th, 2011, 02:43 PM
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I don't smoke, but my mother does. If HAL were to ban all smoking she would not be able to cruise on HAL again unless and until she stops smoking. As it is, the restrictions on where one can smoke are extensive, and the staff doesn't always seem to know where one can smoke and where one can't from ship to ship.

For several years, now, HAL has been running the following survey on their ships:



They're even tracking our responses by coding each and every survey response to our name, stateroom number, booking number, and mariner number. I'm convinced that the restrictions on smoking areas that have been implemented over the last 2-3 years are the result of responses to these surveys. Rumors that HAL is about to ban smoking altogether are probably based upon the wording of this survey when read by someone who hasn't experienced it or responded to it many times over the past few years.
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Old January 4th, 2011, 04:46 PM
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We got a call from a HAL Travel Planner just last Friday asking us if we were still planning to take our extended cruise...I explained that we would love to finalize our plans but couldn't because we have some genuine concerns about paying big bucks for a suite and then not being able to enjoy sitting on the veranda because of cigaret smoke drifting over from one or both sides of the veranda wall. The HAL Representative said they are also concerned about solving this problem and are taking surveys to see how their customers feel. We really like HAL and if push comes to shove might do a short cruise...but the longer type cruises will just have to wait. Toooooooo much money to risk having a 15 -30 day cruise ruined!

We had a 12 day Celebrity cruise ruined because of residual cigaret smoke! It was so heavy that it was in the curtains, bedding, rug and even the toilet tissue. They shampooed the carpet and washed the walls, REPLACED the mattress, bedding drapes etc, and still couldn't get the smell out. Your eyes burned after just a few minutes in the cabin. The ship was absolutely full so Celebrity didn't have another cabin to move us to. We were going to have to re-pack, leave the ship and fly home. Luckily for us...another couple didn't show up and we were able to get their cabin. We don't want to experience this again.....
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Old January 4th, 2011, 05:08 PM
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Fieldmouse, Celebrity no longer permits smoking in cabins or on private balconies.
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Old January 4th, 2011, 05:41 PM
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Yes, we know and our happy/thrilled about that...but you can't beat HAL's itinerary for longer cruises!!!
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Old January 4th, 2011, 09:17 PM
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So true, Fieldmouse!
BTW, I just love your avatar.
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Old January 4th, 2011, 10:56 PM
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I don't think HAL should go totally smoke free.

I dream of the day they ban smoking on verandahs and in cabins.
I think ships that have Sports Bars should continue to permit smoking there. On ships without a Sports Bar, they need to find one indoor location where they can isolate and venilate smoke and smokers would be permitted to smoke only there when inside the ship.

I think there should be two places outside (one of which has a cover for protection from rain) where people can smoke.

I sincerely hope us non-smokers can some day return to playing a little in the casino. As it is now, I have been totally unable to even think of spending any time there. I used to be able to bear the stench and fog but no more.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sail7seas View Post
I don't think HAL should go totally smoke free.

I dream of the day they ban smoking on verandahs and in cabins.
I think ships that have Sports Bars should continue to permit smoking there. On ships without a Sports Bar, they need to find one indoor location where they can isolate and venilate smoke and smokers would be permitted to smoke only there when inside the ship.

I think there should be two places outside (one of which has a cover for protection from rain) where people can smoke.

I sincerely hope us non-smokers can some day return to playing a little in the casino. As it is now, I have been totally unable to even think of spending any time there. I used to be able to bear the stench and fog but no more.
Judy, your suggestions are similar to mine, including the restrictions on in-cabin smoking. I say this even though I know it would be very inconvenient for my mother to have to leave her cabin to go to a smoking lounge or to a designated area outdoors. In-part, it would make it possible for my mother and I to cruise together, again, in the same cabin (and that would save me a lot of money). Also, it would force my mother to further moderate her smoking habits (i.e., her tendency to smoke while getting ready for dinner, etc.).

The only modification is that I would suggest that smoking be permitted in the very aft, starboard side quadrant of the outside promenade deck. It being outside and all the way aft will help evacuate smoke. And, it being only on one side of the ship will also help to reduce the impact of that smoke on others. They might also consider making one side (the starboard side?) of the Sky Deck a smoking area, and/or a section of the sports deck on one side might be made smoking.

And, finally, I think these policies should be established fleet-wide, with consistency existing between ships. HAL has not always been consistent fleet-wide in establishing policies like this, but on this matter I think consistency is a must.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 10:20 AM
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S7S & Rev, the restrictions you've suggested sound like a dream-come-true for nonsmokers! :-D
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Old January 5th, 2011, 11:00 AM
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S7S & Rev, the restrictions you've suggested sound like a dream-come-true for nonsmokers! :-D
Well, honestly, I think you should say "a dream-come-true for those few nonsmokers who have a real allergy, and the slightly larger group who have a strong dislike of smoke however long ago or however distant."

The fact of the matter is that I think MOST nonsmokers, like my wife and me, find modern ships to be very good about the control of smoking and preventing it from disturbing the average nonsmoker. I have never had a cabin (or a hotel room) in which I found any trace at all of previous smokers. I think the cruise lines must have some marvelous super secret deodorizer! It is also hard for me to understand complaints about smoke drifting from another balcony. Certainly at sea the breeze is enough to blow it away. When the ship is perfectly still maybe it would be slightly noticeable.

The fact is, folks, that when 3000 people are packed together in a small space, there has to be just a bit of give and take and getting along with each other. That being the case, I am afraid that people who seriously object to smoke to that degree need to restrict their vacations to smoke free resorts. It is too bad that they will miss the joys of cruising, but they simply can't expect cruise lines to cater to that small group and exclude smokers, another relatively small group, from enjoying their cruises. But somehow virulent anti-smokers seem to have seized what they regard as the moral high ground and think that they must be accomodated regardless of others.

HAL has been doing that survey for a number of years. If they thought there was any profit to be made from further smoking restrictions they would surely have done it by now.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 11:49 AM
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How is it you speak for MOST of the non-smokers? You don't speak for me. I disagree with your statements about what MOST non-smokers find to be 'fact of the matter' as you say it.

You don't consider the hours each day when a ship is in port when you say you cannot understand why the wind does not blow smoke away from an abutting veranda. Nor do you take into considertation the smoke that drifts up from verandah one deck down at sailaway when the ship moves slowly. We had two smokers beneath us one cruise and they stood at their rail each afternoon at sailaway puffing like smokestacks. Their smoke drifted right up into our faces each afternoon and denied us the pleasure of standing at our railing to watch the pretty sight sailing out of port. Their selfish action had no consideration to how they impacted our enjoyment. We had to go in and miss the sailaway. That is give and take? When we politely asked if they could refrain while we could all enjoy sailaway, they responded, "It's permitted" and lit another from the butt of the one they were just finishing.

What give and take is there when (as happened to DH and me), we had smokers on both sides of our cabin? We were sandwiched between them and they had no regard for the fact we lost total use of our verandah for an entire Carbibean cruise. They seemed to spend most of their cruise on their verandahs smoking and they didn't give a fig our discomfort.

We, too, paid for use of that verandah and nothing we did prohibited someone from enjoying their verandah but their actions and disregard for anything or anyone but their selfish addiction denied us use of the verandah.

I have never said we are allergic.... we are not. We just can't stand the stink, the disgusting ash, the way our clothes smell when walking through a smoke filled area, the way my hair stinks....... It makes me sick the pigs that leave cigarette butts in a park, on a beach, stomped out on a sidewalk. No one should have to look at the litter.

We live in a state where smoking is banned in all workplaces. Just about everywhere you go is a workplace for someone so we live a smoke free life for the most part. None of our friends smoke. They all figured out smoking was out of the question and either never smoked or quit. Amazing how millions of people worldwide have quit. The whining about how hard it is to quit is old and doesn't cut it anymore. Millions have done it.

It is only when we go to the ships we are exposed to it.
After 71 cruises on HAL, we are not going to go to another cruise line but we ARE going to keep harping at everyone who stands still long enough to cut back more on where smoking is permitted. It seems to be working as Maasdam eliminated one more place where once they permitted it.

They all know they have to take the last step and eliminate it in cabins and verandahs and it will be coming very soon.....
More states, more provinces, more countries have stricter smoking policies and cruise lines know more people are intolerant of being around smoke.

Last edited by sail7seas; January 5th, 2011 at 12:11 PM.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
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The fact of the matter is that I think MOST nonsmokers, like my wife and me, find modern ships to be very good about the control of smoking and preventing it from disturbing the average nonsmoker. I have never had a cabin (or a hotel room) in which I found any trace at all of previous smokers. I think the cruise lines must have some marvelous super secret deodorizer! It is also hard for me to understand complaints about smoke drifting from another balcony. Certainly at sea the breeze is enough to blow it away. When the ship is perfectly still maybe it would be slightly noticeable.
For the most part, I agree with this too. My personal experience over the past 16 years has been HAL does an excellent job of cleaning cabins between passengers, and that when one has smokers in-cabin they do significantly more to prepare the cabin for the next cruises' passengers. I've been in cabins that had smokers in them before my cruise and I have only once been able to tell that a smoker had been in-residence immediately before me. In that case the ship's staff took measures to make it right. Granted, I'm not hyper-sensitive to smoke or ash; someone who is might have had more problems than I. Nevertheless, I think that since sufficient measures can be and are taken to clean cabins between cruises, it might be possible to allow in-cabin smoking. On the Verandah is another matter. Granted, in many cases motion-generated wind will serve to ventilate the verandahs sufficiently. Sadly, the ship isn't always in-motion and, additionally, sometimes the particular flow of wind evacuates the smoke from the smoker's verandah directly to a neighbor's verandah. In short, it can be a problem.

To put it simply, I think that HAL has recently taken several excellent steps to reduce the impact of smoking on non-smokers. Further steps might be taken to greatly reduce that impact even more. I don't expect, however, that HAL ships will go entirely smoke-free at any point in the near future.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 12:17 PM
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There's a fairly simple solution really... 20% of the public smokes. The cruise lines could take 20% of their inventory and designate them smoking allowed.. and place them all on the aft portion of the ship. That way the smoke would head aft when the ship is underway, and only smokers in those aft cabins would be affected.

Those who want to chose an aft cabin would do so knowing they are booking into a smoking area. The remainder of the ship's interiors would then be designated smoke free, except perhaps one lounge.

Of course there would still be some complaining they've lost the right to book an aft cabin, but then they'd most likely be people who are only happy if they always get exactly what they want out of everything in life
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Old January 5th, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MercedMike View Post
Well, honestly, I think you should say "a dream-come-true for those few nonsmokers who have a real allergy, and the slightly larger group who have a strong dislike of smoke however long ago or however distant."

The fact of the matter is that I think MOST nonsmokers, like my wife and me, find modern ships to be very good about the control of smoking and preventing it from disturbing the average nonsmoker. I have never had a cabin (or a hotel room) in which I found any trace at all of previous smokers. I think the cruise lines must have some marvelous super secret deodorizer! It is also hard for me to understand complaints about smoke drifting from another balcony. Certainly at sea the breeze is enough to blow it away. When the ship is perfectly still maybe it would be slightly noticeable.

The fact is, folks, that when 3000 people are packed together in a small space, there has to be just a bit of give and take and getting along with each other. That being the case, I am afraid that people who seriously object to smoke to that degree need to restrict their vacations to smoke free resorts. It is too bad that they will miss the joys of cruising, but they simply can't expect cruise lines to cater to that small group and exclude smokers, another relatively small group, from enjoying their cruises. But somehow virulent anti-smokers seem to have seized what they regard as the moral high ground and think that they must be accomodated regardless of others.

HAL has been doing that survey for a number of years. If they thought there was any profit to be made from further smoking restrictions they would surely have done it by now.
I do think that nonsmokers, for the most part, just tolerate the second-hand smoke without saying anything at all. This does not necessarily mean that they aren't bothered by it. Actually, I can't think of a single nonsmoker I know who really wants to be around a bunch of smoke. To label us as "virulent antismokers" seems a little much, as does the suggestion that we should just quit cruising & go to a smoke free resort.
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