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Old November 10th, 2010, 06:41 PM
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Default Smoking Policy and Interactive TV

We have been hearing rumors surrounding a more restrictive smoking policy and an interactive television poised to go fleet wide. Anyone else here this?
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Old November 10th, 2010, 11:41 PM
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Haven't heard a thing, but may hear something when we are on the Eurodam next month. If I remember, I'll post any information.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 07:16 AM
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That would be great. Thank you.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 08:23 PM
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Haven't heard a thing, but may hear something when we are on the Eurodam next month. If I remember, I'll post any information.

Lots of rumors but no reliable verification. Everyone has an opinion but until there is an official announcement, none of it means anything IMO

Maybe we'll hear something on our upcoming Maasdam cruise. I'll post anything I hear. We didn't hear anything 'earth shattering' on Eurodam last month.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 08:50 PM
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I would love a smoke free cruise
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Old November 13th, 2010, 01:09 PM
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Maybe one of these days......... getting closer but not sure if they are quite there yet.
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Old November 13th, 2010, 02:22 PM
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Smoking kills ,secondhand smoking kills . I have a friend retired from the medical profession who smokes .Intellectually she knows that this is nuts yet she continues to do so.
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Old November 13th, 2010, 02:54 PM
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Smoking kills ,secondhand smoking kills . I have a friend retired from the medical profession who smokes .Intellectually she knows that this is nuts yet she continues to do so.
Henry.. just curious... why wouldn't you chose a cruise line who's policies are already more restrictive towards smoking?

Celebrity, for example, has no smoking in cabins, on balconies, in public rooms, nor casino.

Wouldn't that have made a better choice than HAL, if this was such an important criteria?
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Old November 14th, 2010, 06:18 PM
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Thank you for all the responses. I would prefer a more restrictive smoking policy. I have tried Celebrity twice and why I do prefer their stance on smoking indoors; their overall cruise experience did not stand to the level presented by HAL. The interactive TV I hear is being test on Carnival so maybe we will see it on all of the lines owned by Carnival.
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Old November 15th, 2010, 08:36 AM
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Just returned from the Southern Caribbean/Panama Canal on the Zuiderdam. There is no longer any smoking permitted in the Crow's Nest, hooray! The casino still permits smoking although it seemed extremely light when we walked through. Don't know about the Piano Bar or Northern Lights disco. All other venues were smoke-free. There is still smoking permitted in rooms and balconies. We were lucky not to have any big smokers around our balcony.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 02:28 PM
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Hi there, people say that all the time but some of us just plain like HAL better. Been on 5 different cruiselines but always come back to HAL for exceptional service. I also hope they become more restrictive. Hard to book a verandah when there are smokers all around. It's better if you book a lanai verandah, but I still had a hard-core cigar smoker next door. Ugh.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 04:41 AM
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Then you would not like Norwegian as they allow smoking in all cabins. Claim they run an ozone air cleanear between each cruise. I was going on one out of New orlesns last January but opted out lost my fare but write WHO and the Center for disease control and attached a letter from my MD. I learned of this just before sailing when filing my papers to board they subtly mention the policy.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Henry43 View Post
I would love a smoke free cruise
I'm a non-smoker. Not a militant non-smoker, but not a smoker.
Carnival could not generate enough support for their completely non-smoking PARADISE. In construction, even the workers were not allowed to smoke on the ship. Pax signed an agreement that if they were caught smoking on board they would be put off at the next port without any compensation and pay a $250.00 cleaning fine. PARADISE became Carnival's least profitable ship. Sales of everything were low, bars, casino, shops. In 2004 [we were on it] PARADISE sailed from Miami to LA and became smoking after that repositioning cruise.

So restricted smoking policies might be OK but even the US doesn't seem to be ready for absolute non-smoking ships.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 04:57 PM
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Henry.. just curious... why wouldn't you chose a cruise line who's policies are already more restrictive towards smoking?

Celebrity, for example, has no smoking in cabins, on balconies, in public rooms, nor casino.

Wouldn't that have made a better choice than HAL, if this was such an important criteria?

Easy answer......
We book HAL because that is the cruise line we like.
We do not like Celebrity but like their restrictive smoking policy.
We can hope/try to get that policy on HAL ships.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 06:21 PM
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Easy answer......
We book HAL because that is the cruise line we like.
We do not like Celebrity but like their restrictive smoking policy.
We can hope/try to get that policy on HAL ships.
So, you want HAL to change their policies to adapt to your likes and dislikes? Interesting approach.

In terms of "consumer affairs" the simplest and most direct message would seem to me is to let my wallet do the talking. Most any business reacts fastest to change when they see it affect their bottom line.

HAL in fact may have picked up some "smoking Celebrity" passengers because of their more liberal policy.... which might make them more reluctant to tighten their own, just because of requests.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 09:33 PM
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We chose HAL because we cruised with them in the past and liked it .We like the itinerary and we are cruising with 2 other couples who we've been friends with close to 50 years .
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:13 PM
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We chose HAL because we cruised with them in the past and liked it .We like the itinerary and we are cruising with 2 other couples who we've been friends with close to 50 years .
Henry... I have no problem with your choice to cruise HAL, and I hope you have a wonderful cruise.

But earlier in this thread you posted "I would love a smoke free ship".

You could have done that. For "whatever" reason (the reason is irrelvant) you CHOSE not to.

You CHOSE not to "put your money where your mouth is".

I'm honestly not saying that as a "put down". But, you have to understand
you've rewareded the line with the less restrictive policy with your business, sending them a message that you support your policies, rather than supporting the cruise lines which perhaps take a more corageous stand by restricting or banning smoking.

It's like donating to and voting for a political party, and then expecting them to act like the party you didn't vote for
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:20 PM
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We are not cruising veterans .This is only our fourth. In addition we are nearing 70 and have physical limitations .We found in HAL a cruise with an itinerary that we like as do our friends cruising with us .
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:49 PM
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So, you want HAL to change their policies to adapt to your likes and dislikes? Interesting approach.

In terms of "consumer affairs" the simplest and most direct message would seem to me is to let my wallet do the talking. Most any business reacts fastest to change when they see it affect their bottom line.

HAL in fact may have picked up some "smoking Celebrity" passengers because of their more liberal policy.... which might make them more reluctant to tighten their own, just because of requests.


Our upcoming cruise on HAL will be our 71st with the company. Not likely we'll go to Celebrity but no company should ever assume they have anyone's business forever.

They have greatly reduced smoking areas and it is our hope they will ban it on verandas. One can hope....... and continue to make written and oral comments and complete the smoking survey which accompanies the end of cruise surveys. They've done that questionnaire for years and maybe one of these days, they'll actually act.

We're fine about public areas they now permit smoking though it definitely costs them casino revenue as lots of non-smokers have stopped gambling while aboard. We are definitely not fine with veranda smoking and make lots of noise about it. Only about 20% of HAL guests are smokers. Their numbers are dwindling. The lower they get, the faster one of the 'mass market' cruise lines will follow Celebrity's lead and the rest will follow immediately. They are all waiting for one to be the first. IMO

Last edited by sail7seas; November 20th, 2010 at 10:56 PM.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 10:10 AM
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Interestingly, the last couple of times we have been on either Princess or HAL, they have handed around a survey on this subject, asking exactly the questions that have come up on this board. Clearly they ARE considering the idea.

As has been noted, the market is what decides the policy. Carnival Paradise is the epitome of the market in action. Rumor says that the ship was very popular and almost always sailed full -- but she could not make any money at the big profit areas, the bars and casinos, because all those people who were very particular about booking a non-smoking ship were also people who were not very interested in drinking and gambling!

We have found that the smoking on HAL is usually very restricted and not bothersome to the average non-smoker. In fact, one night they actually had a no-smoking casino night!

Those who have an actual allergy, which are few, and those who have a deep aversion to the least amount of smoke, will have a bigger problem. If your distaste for smoke is so great that a smoker on a balcony near you is going to disturb you, I guess you will just have to find an alternative to HAL, or maybe to cruising altogether, until market forces swing in your direction. If the figure above is accurate, 20% is a huge market chunk and I don't think any cruise line will give that up.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 11:48 AM
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Interestingly, the last couple of times we have been on either Princess or HAL, they have handed around a survey on this subject, asking exactly the questions that have come up on this board. Clearly they ARE considering the idea.

As has been noted, the market is what decides the policy. Carnival Paradise is the epitome of the market in action. Rumor says that the ship was very popular and almost always sailed full -- but she could not make any money at the big profit areas, the bars and casinos, because all those people who were very particular about booking a non-smoking ship were also people who were not very interested in drinking and gambling!

We have found that the smoking on HAL is usually very restricted and not bothersome to the average non-smoker. In fact, one night they actually had a no-smoking casino night!

Those who have an actual allergy, which are few, and those who have a deep aversion to the least amount of smoke, will have a bigger problem. If your distaste for smoke is so great that a smoker on a balcony near you is going to disturb you, I guess you will just have to find an alternative to HAL, or maybe to cruising altogether, until market forces swing in your direction. If the figure above is accurate, 20% is a huge market chunk and I don't think any cruise line will give that up.

Your example about Carnival's Paradise is such old history is has little relevance IMO That ship sailed smoke free for about ten years and hardly changed the itinerary but continued to sail full. Carnvial could have marketed it better if they wanted to continue with her. How many times is one willing to take the same cruise on the same ship? They should have moved her around.

But more importantly, society has changed. There are so few smokers in society today vs the numbers 'back then'. You will find few professionals who smoke (though, without question some) and so many smokers are far less tolerant of being around smoke than ever. They don't want to breathe it, have their skin and hair smell of it and foul their clothes with the odor. Most smokers truly do not know how bad it really smells to a great many non-smokers. I can walk by a smoker who is not at the moment doing so and know immediately (s)he smokes as you can smell it on them.

More states have banned smoking in most public places so a huge number of their residents are now accustomed to living a smoke free life and not exposed to it at home. Every year more states enact stricter smoking laws. When we cruise, it is shocking to be exposed to it as we almost never are around second hand smoke at home. We almost never smell second hand smoke at home. No smoking permitted in any workplace and just about anywhere you go is a workplace for someone. Some beaches and parks ban it.

Times have changed. Society in North America has spoken loudly smoking is not welcome to a great many places.

For us, it is not welcome on abutting verandas. We should not lose use of the veranda for which we paid a great deal of money because of something damaging someone else is doing. We are doing nothing to impact their enjoyment yet we are the ones forced off our veranda. We are becoming very vocal that is not to be tolerated. We paid to use that veranda as did our neighbor but the neighbor is denying our ability to enjoy and use it. That should be stopped.

HAL's end of cruise smoking survey is not new. They've done it for at least 3+ years and it is now time IMO to make the step of stopping veranda smoking.

As to casino revenue, I have read by a prolific, high level Officer who has worked for many cruise lines, Cruise Message Board poster (..... one of the other boards) that revenue on non-smoking nights in the casino is the same as smoking evenings.) Roughly 80% of North American cruisers do not smoke and a large percentage of them refuse to use the casino because of the horrid smoke cloud. We are among them. We used to stop every evening there for a least a while but I never do anymore. I can't stand to be in that smoke filled room.

A long way of saying (and I'm really sorry I made this so long as I didn't intend to), we are tired of having to put up with the stink and second hand risk and are vocal to try and have changes made. In time, of course, they'll be no more smokers for any number of reasons but we don't want to wait that long.

Last edited by sail7seas; November 21st, 2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 12:03 PM
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If your distaste for smoke is so great that a smoker on a balcony near you is going to disturb you, I guess you will just have to find an alternative to HAL, or maybe to cruising altogether, until market forces swing in your direction. If the figure above is accurate, 20% is a huge market chunk and I don't think any cruise line will give that up.

If you think they worry about losing the 20% of smokers (who will dwindle more and more for many reasons), I suspect they worry more how many non-smokers they are losing to cruise lines with less smoking permitted or to land vacations.


If they are losing more because of the smoking and I suspect it is getting close to that, the bean counters will come down on the side of 'get rid of veranda smoking'. Not to mention insurance savings from far less smoking. Premiums will drop as smoking ceases.

Last edited by sail7seas; November 21st, 2010 at 12:13 PM.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 12:04 PM
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I have no idea what the statistics might be (if any are noticably significant), but it could be possible that smokers are moving from lines with more restrictive smoking policies, to those with more liberal policies.

I'd bet that smokers would be quicker to change lines that allow their habit in some form, than to simply accept the restrictions on their habit. Especially more true, apparently, than those who continue to sail on their line of choice, and campaign for more restrictive policies.

Thus.. those with less restrictive policies may have noticed the increase in bookings to their line, and may be reluctant to lose the new and additional customers.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 12:16 PM
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I have no idea what the statistics might be (if any are noticably significant), but it could be possible that smokers are moving from lines with more restrictive smoking policies, to those with more liberal policies.

I'd bet that smokers would be quicker to change lines that allow their habit in some form, than to simply accept the restrictions on their habit. Especially more true, apparently, than those who continue to sail on their line of choice, and campaign for more restrictive policies.

Thus.. those with less restrictive policies may have noticed the increase in bookings to their line, and may be reluctant to lose the new and additional customers.

Of course, it will be about the numbers. We've had those conversations and we all can be very sure the bean counters are keeping close count. There are some 'HAL folks' who say more changes are imminent and others who say not quite yet but soon. At least, that has been our experience.

Gains in guests vs loss in guests. It's always about the money........
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 02:17 AM
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Sail7Seas,

I am with you. I love HAL and their service. There are other cruise lines I enjoy too but none thus far compare to HAL. I would love to see HAL's policy mirror that of Celebrity's. Here in Florida more and more places are restricting their smoking policy. I am sure for what HAL loses in smokers they will gain back from Celebrity.

Is there a way to conduct an online survery?
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 10:44 AM
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... We should not lose use of the veranda for which we paid a great deal of money because of something damaging someone else is doing. We are doing nothing to impact their enjoyment yet we are the ones forced off our veranda. We are becoming very vocal that is not to be tolerated. We paid to use that veranda as did our neighbor but the neighbor is denying our ability to enjoy and use it. That should be stopped.

HMM ... militant non-smokers frequently use arguments such as the above. Let's cast it in a slightly different light:

"We smokers should not lose the use of the veranda for which we paid a great deal of money because of some complaints someone else is making. They are trying to impact our enjoyment and make us the ones who are forced off our veranda. We paid to use that veranda as did our neighbor, but the neighbor is trying to deny our ability to enjoy and use it. This should be stopped."

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, is it not? The air surrounding your veranda is what is called "shared space." If your personal feelings do not allow you to share that space with your neighbor, then which one of you is to be forced to stop using it?

A reasonable approach to sharing the space aboard ships can work for almost everybody. Over the years smoking has been much restricted. Nobody is sitting across the table blowing smoke into anybody's face.

It is very simple. Those smokers who cannot go two hours through dinner without smoking should not cruise on HAL. Those non-smokers who are so bothered by smoke in the outside air near their balcony should not cruise on HAL. Those of either variety who are willing to share a bit and think of other people's enjoyment as well as their own can enjoy the wonderful cruise line together.

Now, if you want to talk about obnoxious drunks all over the ship spoiling the enjoyment of others, there is another topic ...
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 11:02 AM
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I am sure for what HAL loses in smokers they will gain back from Celebrity
See.. I'd be willing to bet that there's more passengers like "sail7" who continue to cruise HAL because they like, and complain and campaign for changes, than there were smokers from other lines, who've moved to HAL because of their smoking policies.

And as "sail7" has admitted "money talks".

It's a bit of human nature at work I think. A person with allergies might be looking for a new puppy. Logically they know they need to find a hypallergenic breed, but they tend to just bring home the cutest puppy
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 10:54 AM
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Whatever.
This is worth no more energy on my part.
Puff away.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 11:24 AM
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Whatever.
This is worth no more energy on my part.
Puff away.
AWWWW ...don't you hate it when people bail out just as it gets lively?
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Old November 27th, 2010, 08:50 AM
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Personally, I agree with Sail. There is nothing militant about preferring smoke-free zones on your expensive verandah. Like I said, we've had a hard time with smokers on all sides of us and it is just not fair to have it ruin our pleasure. Sure, we can go with Celebrity. I've done that but not liked the line as much.
So, this December, I found a solution. For the first time, I've booked a land vacation. I'll take my money elsewhere. No sour grapes, here; I just can't stand being around that filthy habit. Hope HAL starts to change things a bit.........but I doubt it's going to happen.
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