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Old June 20th, 2011, 02:42 PM
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Default Princess pulls out of Mazatlan & Puerta Vallarta

Is the Mexican Riviera going to disappear from cruise itineraries? Maybe after the year, they will revisit going back to this itinerary?

With hgiher air fares as an east coaster to fly out west,and the fact I would prefer a more diverse itinerary,this cruise was just not for me, but, I bet there will be many unhappy cruisers out there.


Safety concerns prompt Princess to cancel Puerto Vallarta calls - USATODAY.com
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Old June 20th, 2011, 02:50 PM
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That's too bad. Mazatlan is a dog of a place, IMO, but I love PV. It is far and away my favorite stop on the Riviera.
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Old June 20th, 2011, 02:55 PM
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Don't come to Minneapolis. Last week two local gang bangers were shot in front of a downtown nightclub. Six people were murdered last week in Detroit. Four people were murdered in Los Angeles last week

Similar statements can be made about any major U.S. city. I wonder why the cruise lines still use Long Beach and San Pedro as their home ports. The murder rates, per capita, are far higher than in PV or Mazatlan.

Perhaps it will send a message to the local government but these are not small Caribbean islands.

I also wonder why people still go to Cancun. The rape, robbery and murder rates of tourists are MUCH higher.

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Old June 21st, 2011, 06:35 AM
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Puerto Vallarta is sooooooooooo much safer then many other destinations. There has been a killing (NOT a cruise-passenger), very unfortunate of course. But much more killings happen in other places (also against tourists!) and ships still sail there, tourists are still coming.
We have had various long winterstays in PVR, never had any problems. Not while riding buses, shopping, dining, riding our car, or even walking the streets during the day or night.

The decision of Princess has nothing to do with safety, otherwise they better stop sailing to L.A., San Diego, Miami, Seattle, Vancouver, Barcelona, Rome, Istanbul, Athens, Amsterdam, just to name a few places which are less safe.
Prices are low, most passengers donot book excursions, so Princess doesnot make enough money on the Mexican Riviera. Sailing not that south to PV but staying more north saves a lot in fuel.....
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Old July 1st, 2011, 12:43 PM
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Unfortunately it seems you love to write negative about Puerto vallarta while not even living there!!!! I have read your postings on other boards too and it would be nice if you would stick to Acapulco.
I am in almost daily contact with PVR and the place is as safe as ever. There are plenty of places in the world that are far more dangerous and cruiseships keep sailing there. Look at the serious drugsproblems Puerto Rico is having at the moment, also cruise-passengers are having problems in Naples, Rome, Barcelona etc.
This apart from the many incidents happening in the USA.
Donot keep repeating incidents that have happened months ago and have NOTHING to do with harming tourists or cruise-passengers.
It is very strange that Princess makes decision in JUNE re sailing that are taking place in November and December. That cannot be re safety in vallarta , but a business decision to cut costs.
Amazing also that a dutch chartercompany will start to fly every week starting November.
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acapulco Kevin View Post
Yes, Ine...

I read you and others like you on the other boards too and I bet it is hard to sell whatever it is you are selling or representing at this time.

I am not a tourist. I know what is happening.

You and others regularly misrepresent the facts because you either don't know the facts or it is more convenient to refute the reality because honesty is bad for business.
I still think your blowing a lot of smoke
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 12:18 PM
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Since you live in Acapulco and not in Puerto vallarta (as we did last winter for 5 months and will do again next winter) maybe you better write about Acapulco and the situation there..
I am not selling anything, (I donot need too) just escaping winter and enjoying living in Vallarta during winter., like thousands of americans and canadians I have met there over the years.
I will be back in Vallarta within a few weeks again for a short stay and looking forward to this very much.
I have traveled a lot and have been in places allover the world. I am not trying to convinve you as you donot want to, but thank god many others know Puerto vallarta is safe.
But the constant wrong impression people want to give about Puerto vallarta is very disturbing and untrue.
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 12:50 PM
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PV is my favorite of those ports too. Shame.

I know that one murder in Mazatlan happened directly in front of the cruise terminal. Near the gate that everyone uses to go over to the Walmart. You can't get any closer than that without being inside the port security fence itself. I think that one was the final straw that caused Carnival to leave.

AcaKev-I don't think the lack of acknowledgement of the crime there by the posters here are because they are promoting tourism, they are just travelers/cruisers who honestly believe that it is not as bad as you are saying. It's an easy problem to ignore, no one wants their cruise vacation spoiled with facts.

Comparing crime in the U.S. to Mexico is moot. When a crime occurs here in the US there is a very good chance that it will be investigated and solved. That is not so true in Mexico, thus it goes on and on.... Plus the rates can be higher here because crimes are reported here...many many crimes are NOT reported in Mexico. The TRUE crime rate would shock people.

Now, will this information keep me off a Mexican cruise? NO probably not, but I want to be as informed as possible.
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 02:50 PM
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This will not win me any points but it is MOOT point, not MUTe.

Second, it is obvious neither of you Kevin or Snoozman (moderator) have spent much time in Puerto Vallarta. It is sad how people who spend a week here or a day once a year are suddenly experts. I am also pretty sure neither of you Speak Spanish or know much of the culture. Neither of you score points on logic either.

Murders ARE reported as they are up "there" We are not simpletons here nor is it the Wild West, and we do have detective and a forensic science department.Which you would know if you spoke Spanish, read the newspapers and had a clue.

Death certificates are mandatory here as there and 99% of the deaths are reported so family members can "take care of business"-such as burial, wills, transferring of property, taxes, Afore, investments, re-marriage, etc. etc. etc.

Snoozman you deserve a slap on the wrist for not knowing what you speak of and for allowing this whack-a-doodle Kevin to even have a voice. Do what your competitor, Crusie Critic did and ban him.

I am sure you will delete this since it may offend you but I hope you learn a lesson in what is "moot", what is "truth" and what is "reality" in Puerto Vallarta. As well, to back up what you state, how many days a year are you hear and how is your Spanish?

BTW_ there have been murders in the US in the same proximity of the docks there as in Mazatlan but it does not stop them from departing that port. Logic? No...... Money.....yes.
Common sense is hard to find these days, I guess.

Last edited by PVdiva; July 2nd, 2011 at 02:56 PM. Reason: typo add text
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acapulco Kevin View Post
Yo hablo español perfectamente y yo soy de Acapulco.

I am not banned from CC so speak of what you know.

Mute was a perfect word for the situation in Mexico if you can't keep it out of the papers, kidnap or kill the editors has been the recent motto. The editor for the Novedadades newspaper went missing about 2 weeks ago. More than 60 reporters and their families have been killed in Mexico since 2000. Puerto Vallarta news is controlled by a group of Americans that not only control what is reported but sell real estate and this is a fact.

So yes, it is all about the money.
Sorry Mike I can not find your E mail address if you could let me know what it is so I could view all of your pictures I would appreciate it Thank you for your time.Sorry I cant find your email
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVdiva View Post
This will not win me any points but it is MOOT point, not MUTe.

Second, it is obvious neither of you Kevin or Snoozman (moderator) have spent much time in Puerto Vallarta. It is sad how people who spend a week here or a day once a year are suddenly experts. I am also pretty sure neither of you Speak Spanish or know much of the culture. Neither of you score points on logic either.

Murders ARE reported as they are up "there" We are not simpletons here nor is it the Wild West, and we do have detective and a forensic science department.Which you would know if you spoke Spanish, read the newspapers and had a clue.

Death certificates are mandatory here as there and 99% of the deaths are reported so family members can "take care of business"-such as burial, wills, transferring of property, taxes, Afore, investments, re-marriage, etc. etc. etc.

Snoozman you deserve a slap on the wrist for not knowing what you speak of and for allowing this whack-a-doodle Kevin to even have a voice. Do what your competitor, Crusie Critic did and ban him.

I am sure you will delete this since it may offend you but I hope you learn a lesson in what is "moot", what is "truth" and what is "reality" in Puerto Vallarta. As well, to back up what you state, how many days a year are you hear and how is your Spanish?

BTW_ there have been murders in the US in the same proximity of the docks there as in Mazatlan but it does not stop them from departing that port. Logic? No...... Money.....yes.
Common sense is hard to find these days, I guess.
I don't claim to be an expert on PV at all...far from it. I did not even mention PV other than to say it was my favorite port of those mentioned. What are you talking about?

BTW--my Spanish is not great nor my English I guess, but I have employees who speak Spanish as a 1st language. But that has nothing to do with crime in Mexico.
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 08:43 PM
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But of course you are right on top of it to report !
More of your "doom & gloom" as usual regarding anything to do with Mexico
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Old July 2nd, 2011, 08:55 PM
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 02:17 AM
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As this a board for tourists making a cruise, tell me what ship that man in Mazatlan sailed.
If you want to report every murder in Mexico fine, but then publish also those murders commited in the USA, Europe, Canada, Australia etc. That way you will see many more places in the world have problems, not just Mexico.
Whether you believe or not that there are plenty of people that just like to go and stay in Puerto Vallarta and other places (thousands that stay there in winter, many others choosed to live there fulltime), is your problem not mine.
I know better and will return there soon for another lovely stay.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 02:36 AM
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 10:48 AM
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I'm personally not a fan of the west coast of Mexico. Have been there several times and wouldn't rush back. On the other hand I have several friends who own winter homes there, and return year after year. That's all personal taste, and that's fine.

However I do think it would be foolish for anyone to ignore the fact there is massive drug cartel violence in Mexico. It's major world wide news that it is going on, and to date the government seems powerless to stop it.

All over the world there is violence, and you take your chances, but not active warfare like the Cartels are waging.

I don't think many tourists are flooding to Afghanastan to get in between the Taliban and US cartels.

No one can avoid it if random voilence happens anywhere. To intentionally put yourself in a region with a publicized war going on for the sake of a vacation is stupid imho.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 12:26 PM
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Since you pretend to know who the other - fake -posters in Acapulco are, why not state them on this board.
DONOT accuse others who give their honest version about a.o. Puerto Vallarta and Mexico as fake since you donot know me or probably any of the other persons.
I am a resident of The Netherlands who traveled a lot allover the world, cruising and-or landvacations. Since a few years Puerto Vallarta is one of our favorite destinations. We have showed many friends around here and they also know better now. Crime in one city doesnot make a whole region dangerous.
Bringing in Afghanistan by Kuki is to say the least very tasteless. That is a real war based on different principels.
As stated I go back within a few weeks for a vacation. This time with our daughter, her husband and kids who are looking forward to this too. We are sure we will have a great time. I can tell you this will be my last posting re Mexico since I think it is useless to continue a YES or NO discussion.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuki View Post
I'm personally not a fan of the west coast of Mexico. Have been there several times and wouldn't rush back. On the other hand I have several friends who own winter homes there, and return year after year. That's all personal taste, and that's fine.

However I do think it would be foolish for anyone to ignore the fact there is massive drug cartel violence in Mexico. It's major world wide news that it is going on, and to date the government seems powerless to stop it.

All over the world there is violence, and you take your chances, but not active warfare like the Cartels are waging.

I don't think many tourists are flooding to Afghanastan to get in between the Taliban and US cartels.

No one can avoid it if random voilence happens anywhere. To intentionally put yourself in a region with a publicized war going on for the sake of a vacation is stupid imho.
I see where you are coming from

It's like taking a holiday in Gaza not the best holiday destination
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 01:10 PM
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I was just interviewed by Rudy Maxa on this topic so I did some research.

The Canadian man who was robbed in Puerto vallarta was LIVING in the city. His home was burglarized for a large stash of cash he had on hand which the robbers knew about (it was hidden). This could happen in any city.

This was NOT a random crime against a tourist and therefore has no bearing at all in any discussion about whether cruise ships should go to Mexico.

Furthermore, the U.S. state department does have ban on GOVERNMENT WORKERS going to certain towns in Jalisco, the same state Puerto Vallrta, but those towns are hundrreds of miles away, and they are really mountain villages.

The cartels in Mexico are largely concentrated in the mountain regions and they have no interests in tourists. They have far bigger fish to fry, like corrupting the police and government officials.

While I do think it is a bad idea to cross over into Juarez or Tijuana these days, I really don't think getting off a cruise ship in Puerto Vallarta and walking along the beach is dangerous at all.

I think the Princess decision was based solely on perception, fostered by people like Kevin and even our own Kuki here, that Mexican ports are dangerous for cruisers. All evidence shows that is just not true - they have the same or better crime stats for cruise passengers as the Caribbean.

However, unfortunately I think both Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan are rather boring ports of call, although I would put Puerto Vallarta much higher than Mazatlan solely because of the location of the pier. In PV you land very close to a beach dominated by luxury hotels. You can parasail, swim in the ocean, water ski, etc. In Mazatlan there is nothing close to the pier worth seeing.

At the same time, Cabo has turned into a great recreational destination, and I wish more cruisers realized that. There are five world class golf courses, swimming with dolphins and even great shopping. Another beautiful town inside the Sea of Cortes is Loreto, but very few ships go there.

It is too bad the cruise industry has not been able to do more to create nice destinations within Mexico as they have in the Caribbean. Not long ago west coast cruises were doing very well; 1.22 million cruises taken out of L.A. in 2006, down to 450,000 scheduled in 2012.

But also - you have to remember that Princess only canceled THREE STOPS in Puerto Vallarta, through the end of 2011 for one ship which does not got to Mexico regularly. Other cruise lines still go there. To me it seems this is getting an unwarranted amount of attention.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
I was just interviewed by Rudy Maxa on this topic so I did some research.

The Canadian man who was robbed in Puerto vallarta was LIVING in the city. His home was burglarized for a large stash of cash he had on hand which the robbers knew about (it was hidden). This could happen in any city.

This was NOT a random crime against a tourist and therefore has no bearing at all in any discussion about whether cruise ships should go to Mexico.

Furthermore, the U.S. state department does have ban on GOVERNMENT WORKERS going to certain towns in Jalisco, the same state Puerto Vallrta, but those towns are hundrreds of miles away, and they are really mountain villages.

The cartels in Mexico are largely concentrated in the mountain regions and they have no interests in tourists. They have far bigger fish to fry, like corrupting the police and government officials.

While I do think it is a bad idea to cross over into Juarez or Tijuana these days, I really don't think getting off a cruise ship in Puerto Vallarta and walking along the beach is dangerous at all.

I think the Princess decision was based solely on perception, fostered by people like Kevin and even our own Kuki here, that Mexican ports are dangerous for cruisers. All evidence shows that is just not true - they have the same or better crime stats for cruise passengers as the Caribbean.

However, unfortunately I think both Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan are rather boring ports of call, although I would put Puerto Vallarta much higher than Mazatlan solely because of the location of the pier. In PV you land very close to a beach dominated by luxury hotels. You can parasail, swim in the ocean, water ski, etc. In Mazatlan there is nothing close to the pier worth seeing.

At the same time, Cabo has turned into a great recreational destination, and I wish more cruisers realized that. There are five world class golf courses, swimming with dolphins and even great shopping. Another beautiful town inside the Sea of Cortes is Loreto, but very few ships go there.

It is too bad the cruise industry has not been able to do more to create nice destinations within Mexico as they have in the Caribbean. Not long ago west coast cruises were doing very well; 1.22 million cruises taken out of L.A. in 2006, down to 450,000 scheduled in 2012.

But also - you have to remember that Princess only canceled THREE STOPS in Puerto Vallarta, through the end of 2011 for one ship which does not got to Mexico regularly. Other cruise lines still go there. To me it seems this is getting an unwarranted amount of attention.
Here we go up against the big boss it's been nice posting 8)

Are you comparing the problem with Sicily and Libya?

Yes some part of Libya have calmed down just like Egypt

Our news programs and yours give a different message at times, the internet is leveling the playing field hence all the short term problems in the middle east a few more years and Democracy will cover the Globe.
This will create a new problem worse than global warming

How are we going to get all those cruise ships into the ports

I must see if I can find better smilies to help with understanding my sense of humor. ;-)
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acapulco Kevin View Post
Paul....
It wasn't just a Canadian man being murdered and robbed.
The "Canadian resident" was living in PV. This article from a Guadalajara newspaper says his wife was away taking their children to school when the crime happened: Canadian man killed in home robbery | Guadalajara Reporter

It seems to me both sides, ("reporters" and "destination experts") are doing a bit of sensationalizing here. I have no love for the glossed over reporting I see in the travel trade where nothing is ever wrong, but I also don't agree with doing the exact opposite.

The fact is that fuel IS more expensive and PV is the furthest port on the Mexican Riviera. If you are cancelling Mazatlan you might as well cancel PV which is further down the coast.

If anything, the cruise line is basing their decision solely on market research. If there was demand to go to PV they would still go there.

How can anyone overlook the fact that an actual cruise passenger was killed by gang violence in St. Thomas just a year ago. A 14-year old girl died as a result of crossfire between local gangs. Many cruise passengers specifically have been targetted in Jamaica and Nassau - whole busloads being robbed and brutally attacked. Yet ships still go there.

No local Mexicans have ever held up a busload of cruise passengers, yet this has happened in Jamaica four or five times now, going back to the 1990s.

Bottom line is that the demand to go to those Mexican towns has just dropped because the cruise lines have never found exciting and safge shore excursions to offer there.

The cruise lines depend on local tour providers to offer cruise passengers fun things to do. I have been saying for YEARS that a lot of money could be made in Mexico if someone had the foresight to create fun and safe shore excursions. But still, after decades, the only thing ever offered in mazatlan was taking a taxi to the pitiful shopping district called the "Gold Coast" at $15 each direction.

If you shuttles to safe tourist zones like Ixcaret or Chakanaab (in Cancun and Cozumel, respectively) then the demand to visit these cities would be much higher.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 02:10 AM
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Thanks Paul for your reaction. At least you made clear (like I tried to do many times) that almost all actions in Mexico never were against tourists but most of the times had to do with people involved in drugs.
I hope and wish people will enjoy their visit or stay in Puerto Vallarta as we certainly will.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:56 AM
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Murders do effect tourists. Some of our own Cruisemates members and good friends witnessed a murder just last month in Cancun. This happened on a popular public beach directly in front of them. This was very disturbing to them and all the other tourists there. The locals tried to gloss it over, but obviously some tourists wanted to leave. This happened in a tourist only area of a major resort hotel. I have seen no mention of this in the press.

I'd love to see Paul do an article in general and I would put him in contact with our member who witnessed it for some personal context.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 12:04 PM
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We don't cover Cancun because cruise ships don't go there. I don't know why they don't go there (I believe Celebrity used to go there in the early 90s) but now they all go to Cozumel which is an island off the coast of Mexico. I have assume Cozumel is much safer since there is nothing on the island that would make it an attractive haven for drug gangs.

And in a way that proces the point that these gangs are not targetting tourists. Even all of Kevin's stories are about locals against locals.

We have been reporting on pickpockets in Brazil for years. We have had our own reporters mugged down there.

I am not trying to whitewash anything. I just don't think this is the right place to be debating Mexican drug violence. This is a cruise board.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 12:56 PM
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I last tended into Cancun a few years ago. Wasn't that long ago, but it is unusual now. I think some smaller ships still tender there. It's really not set up for the newer and larger cruise ships. The tender dock is on the NW part of the (inverted) L shaped island. They offer shuttles to the center of the tourist area. They do have nice facilities at the dock for the cruise passengers. Cancun does have the tourist bucks. Or did.

I agree that Cozumel is probably the safest place in Mexico. My friends there say that the cartels do not want to be trapped on the island. The current President has a villa there and there is a lot of security. He feels safe enough to ride a bike through the streets. I feel very good about Cozumel, but I personally don't recommend cruise pax leave the island.

I also agree that the crime stories need to be limited to cruise destinations, and I have warned AcaKev myself.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 02:23 PM
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So what do you guys think? Will they cut out the West Coast Mexican cruises? And if not what would they do just go to Cabo for 3 or 4 days? And if they cit it off is there enough going on out West here to keep some cruise ships out here? Living on the west coast I would be disapointed if that happens.I like the idea of sailing out of San Fransico and L.A to go to Mexico.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 03:46 PM
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It would be hard to cut them back much more. Between the swine flu and the crime it has really hurt tourism.

I think they should consider alternating cruises to Mexico and Canada. I was on a diverted Mexican cruise that called on San Francisco, Seattle and Victoria--I enjoyed it. Perhaps do one a month on the Splendor similar to what the Conquest does out of Galveston with it's East (1) West (3) cruises.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 04:19 PM
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Theres always Alaska and Hawaii all tho Hawaii is a longer and more exspensive cruise. I wonder if they could get enough Passengers to do Hawaii year round from the West Coast?We have been to SanFransico and Seattle not on acruise we drove there. I think they would make excelent stops for cruise ships alot to do in both cities.
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Old July 11th, 2011, 12:23 PM
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You seem to forget that it is a war mostly between people dealing in drugs. It has little to do with people taking a cruise (or even vacation) to Mexico.
Shootings unfortunately have taken place in many other countries (not just Mexico) where violence sometimes was amidst public.
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Old July 11th, 2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ine View Post
You seem to forget that it is a war mostly between people dealing in drugs. It has little to do with people taking a cruise (or even vacation) to Mexico.
Shootings unfortunately have taken place in many other countries (not just Mexico) where violence sometimes was amidst public.
Whatever way you look at it, it's gang violence of the worst kind.. multiple and on going murder run rampant. To pretend it won't occassionally over flow and involve tourists is wearing blinders.

However it's on the news enough that the majority of people know about it, and the dangers... thus the cruise lines are limiting their visits to Mexico. The information is "out there", and people make their decisions with full knowlege of it.

To hear more about it repeatedly, and to see a continuous tirade on either side of this arguement is to me, useless information.
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