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Old August 28th, 2004, 09:55 PM
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Default NCL Bashing: stay calm

FROM A RECENT NCL PRESS RELEASE:

"NCL America is confident that the cruise experience aboard Pride of Aloha will very quickly be up to the company’s high standards. Future Pride of Aloha guests should be reassured by the aggressive efforts being undertaken and by the action the company has taken when the product has not delivered as expected."

NCL has admitted there are problems, they have issued partial refunds, they have described the steps they are taking to solve the problems, and they have assured the public that they will solve the problems. I don't see how you can ask anything more of the company.

This message board is having a lot of people coming in here to bash NCL, and instead of speaking their minds and moving on, they are now coming in here, posting in every new thread that goes up, and grinding the axe. Now they are even advising people they have never met to cancel their cruise.

We welcome negative opinions. In every case we have left up negative messages as long as they are factual, recent and informative. But many of these people have gone beyond having their say, they are now trying to dominate and intimidate.

I have asked them not to post in every thread, and yet they persist. Why? I don't know. But anytime I see a concerted, coordinated effort such as this I suspect there is more than meets the eye.

I do not want to make light of anyone getting sick or getting terrible service. However, I do want to say that I think these things are the exception, not the rule, and that things are getting better. There are plenty of people here saying good things, it is the sheer number of posts by the negative people that make it appear "scary" and that is intimidation.

Please do not let the obviously biased remarks of a few people affect your personal plans. Always cruise with caution, always watch your health, always have fun and do not let the little things ruin your vacation.

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Old August 28th, 2004, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm


Paul, can you tell me what aggressive efforts are being undertaken?
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Old August 28th, 2004, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

I can. There are a number of people that have not been on the cruise, (I know you have and you are very much entitled to your opinion and I thank you for it), and are making one post after another about how bad NCL is in general and the POA specifically. NCL is not my favorite line and quite frankly I don't think they are for me, but that does not mean they are not for everyone and that everyone will dislike them. I hope that NCL gets the problems worked out on the POA as the premise is good about it being a US staffed ship. Unfortunately they haven;t been able to get a proper staff onboard but I am sure they are working one it. Rest assured there are a number of people getting their butts chewed and many sleepless nights in the upper circles all the way down to the workers. <G> What we need to do is have people that have cruised on the ship provide unbiased and objective information for everyone to see how it is progressing.
Jim



PS I have also seen those that haven't cruised on the ship but are praising NCL and acting like nothing is wrong and people should not complain. That is also improper.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm


Like I said, can you tell me what aggressive efforts are being undertaken?
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Old August 29th, 2004, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm


It seems that nearly every big company in America these days is trying to send jobs to other countries in order to save money and improve the bottom line for themselves. CNN has a long list of them highlighted every week.

NCL America took a bold - and expensive - chance to bring jobs back into America. I`m sure that they also had profits in mind, but they are also doing something that benefits Americans; directly and indirectly.
Are they doing a good job on this project? I believe that the majority at this point would vote no. But if it was an easy thing too do, many other companies would be doing it as well.

They gambled about $2 Billion on this experiment. Some of us may have "lost" a few thousand dollars on a less than expected or promised cruise experience.
But people, please get real here. We are talking BILLIONS of dollars. Even the owner of parent company Star Cruises (one of the wealthiest men in the world) must think that`s quite a bit of money to gamble with.

Having worked on previous American Cruise Company failures (let`s face it - they have ALL failed), I am inclined to give them a bit of the benefit of the doubt on this one. The Executives and Management at NCL and NCL America are gambling their careers and the financial health of their companies on an American Experiment. Would you do that - either in the interests of profit - or in the interests of your country?
Looking at the past track records of American Cruise Lines, I wouldn`t touch it for any amount of money.

Anyone who wants to try this new American Experiment should do an incredible amount of homework and go into it with eyes fully open. They should also try to appreciate the incredible uphill battle that everyone involved with this project - employees and management - must be fighting to make it work.

We can help them succeed or we can help them fail.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

No No, you dont understand. By Law NCL HAD to staff americans why?
Because they had to have an american flagged ship why?
Because the only way they can set up a cruise that island hops in Hawaii instead of coming from a foriegn port and ONLY being allowed to go to ONE island before going somewhere else was to have the ship american flagged

This played over and over and over on their TVs in the staterooms.
This along with how they used a vinyl sticker instead of paint on the side of the ship.


I am not saying what they did was bad, I am just saying do not think they just decided to bring it back to America and not out source for help, they had no choice if they wanted to hop the islands of Hawaii.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm


I find it hard to cry for a billionaire.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm


Dalwitt,
Don`t worry about him.
You can cry for the thousands of Americans - onboard and on shore - who will lose their jobs if it fails.
You can support your fellow Americans or you can support your pocketbook.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

The fact is that Project America, which was in progress with another cruise company (the parent company of American-Hawaii) when the terror tragedy hit, was a shipbuilding effort of almost 1 billion dollars that had been financed ENTIRELY by the citizens of the United States due to the efforts of Inouye and other Hawaii congressmen.

That project went belly-up, and the American taxpayers were left holding the bag, the ships left unfinished in Newport News Shipyard (yes, they were being built in a U.S. shipyard which is estimated to be 40% more expensive that a European one which is why no passenger ship had been built in one since the 1950s).

NCL boldly chose to rescue the project, but they had to agree to stay within the restrictions of an outdated 1800s law called the PVSA (passenger vessels services act) which mandates that to transport passengers between US ports only you have to be 100% U.S. built and staffed. The only other cruise line doing this right now is Delta Queen, which also went belly-up when 9/11 hit, but their river boats have since been purchased by another US company - Delaware North.

As I said before, no other cruise and no other tourist business in Hawaii such as resorts or restaurants has this restriction. And I can guarantee you that if it was removed from NCLA they would get their act together very quickly. As it is, they are mandated to follow the rules of hiring US staff that include background checks, health tests, etc... the whole process not only takes several weeks (someone here posted 8 weeks), but it also costs several thousand $$s per employee.

They encountered unexpected difficulties in hiring people, they couldn't get enough, and of the ones they got many quit or needed to be fired. THAT is the problem right there. Not an insurmountable problem.

I have told people here that bashing this effort is the same as bashing the USA, because this is the ONLY all-US cruise effort out there right now, And if NCLA cannot find competent people it isn't from a lack of trying. But IF the management of NCLA can pull this off and make it successful imagine what a victory that will be for the US-based cruise industry.

What steps are they taking? They are hiring more people, expanding the base of where they hire from to get more qualified applicants. Top management is onboard to see the problems first-hand (NCL has 12 ships, and headquarters are in Miami. It is unusual to have most of your top brass on one ship). They will be tightening up management procedures (especially food related), changing traffic patterns by adjusting onboard schedules, hiring outboard companies to fix hardware problems and generally just taking care of business. I can't tell you exactly what they will be doing, because I am not there, but it isn't hard to imagine.

CruiseMates' Editor, Anne Campbell was on the ship last month. Anne has been on over 100 ships, she knows cruising. She reported that yes, there were problems, but nothing to ruin her vacation, and nothing that cannot be dealt with.

Most of the "bashers" here are people who cruise for the "cruise experience" which is in my opinion the best service in the world even on the most budget cruise line. Hotels do not offer free food all day, including room service, free entertainment, cleaning staterooms twice/day, etc. But frankly, if that is what you want you should be going to the Caribbean where competition is fierce and budget cruises are still available.

But if you want to see Hawaii in a convenient and affordable way, this is a good way to do it, and soon will be a great way to do it. NCLA will get there, but this vessel is a floating hotel between the Hawaii islands, which is why it is in port 90+ hours per cruise (that is about 13 hours/day). It meant to be a way to see Hawaii, not just a cruise experience. There is no casino, for example.

Some of the "bashers" here could actually be independent tourist services from Hawaii and could consider NCL to be competition. Others could be from a group cruise that NCL already aknowleged had problems. They may be pressing for some kind of refund or something, I do not know the whole story.

But like I said, many people have sailed this ship, made the best of it, and had a good vacation. Others have walked around looking for everything that is wrong, and let it ruin their vacation.

I once sailed on a Silverseas cruise where cabins were about $2000 per person per DAY. And there was a young couple on there grousing about every little thing. They found a rotten apple in their fruit basket, the stewardess tossed away their daily program, they had to send back a steak. Every day they had a new thing to complain about. Finally I said, "I hope you are not missing your vacation because you are concentrating on all this negativity instead of seeing Europe." I think I woke them up.

You can do the same with this cruise. Go to dinner later in the day, plan to have an afternoon snack, go to the show first, maybe. Spring for the surcharge restaurants. There have been many other suggestions.

If there was some kind of outbreak of sickness, it happens on ships and any place where people gather en masse frequently. Especially when the staff is in a hurry. Take extra caution - watch out for finger foods on buffets where young kids might reach in a take things, for example. I was just on Oceania where the staff wears rubber gloves and serves everything from the buffet to your plate, BUT I saw a Bozo reach into the prunes with his bare hands, grab one and stuff it in his mouth right at the buffet. You can't help people being stupid.

You know, sometimes a sequence of bad events hits you all at once - it almost feels like a conspiracy. Your plumbing fails, you catch a cold, your computer crashes, your housekeeper quits, you run out of coffee the day you have an important morning meeting. That is what has happened to NCLA. Some things just take time to sort out, and sometimes life is beyond our control.

We heard the same problems about the first free-style ship, the original NCL Sky, four years ago: bad service, slow staff, bad food. NCL turned it around.

If you have a serious problem on the ship - no air conditioning, for example, then you should definitely speak up. But if you want to go looking for problems and spend your entire vacation grousing - that is your choice, but not how I would spend my vacation.

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Old August 29th, 2004, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

" I am not saying what they did was bad, I am just saying do not think they just decided to bring it back to America and not out source for help, they had no choice if they wanted to hop the islands of Hawaii. "

That is not exactly right. The other choice is Norwegian Wind, round-trip from Honolulu, alternating 10 and 11-night cruises, year-round to Fanning Island in the Republic of Kiribati, Hilo, Kona, Nawiliwili and Lahaina with two days in Lahaina on the 11-night cruise. By visiting a foreign port they can use an international staff and have a casino on board.

If the Project America option had not been there, I don't believe NCL would have even started this effort. I was very impressed with their decision to save US taxpayers so much money that had basically been poured down the drain.

But I guess some people cannot see past their own wallets.

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Old August 29th, 2004, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

"I have told people here that bashing this effort is the same as bashing the USA,"

Maybe I am not the right person to say this since I am not an American and so I guess I could be accused of having anti-American sentiments or something but really, if I were an American I do not thing I would appreciate having my country blamed for the debacle that POA is becoming.

Bashing ( or actually giving negative reviews of POA) is NOT the same as bashing 'America'. NCL is one company (and a company owned by another asian company by the way). It is NOT 'America' . Trying to wrap it up in the American flag is a cheap and transparent ploy to make people afraid to say anything negative about this company.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

Hhhhmmmm found this at a cruise review web site:

********review removed by staff. Folks, you cannot take what someone else wrote and post it here without their express permission. It is illegal and violates copyrights laws. If this person wishes to post a review, wonderful, we welcome reviews, just please do not copy, paste, or quote someone elses work. Thank you.
Jim************
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Old August 29th, 2004, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

"I have told people here that bashing this effort is the same as bashing the USA, because this is the ONLY all-US cruise effort out there right now,"

I don't think the bashing has anything to do with the fact that this is bashing the USA - that is a poor statement on your behalf.

If this had been a cruise ship fly ANY flag - with service this poor, people would have been bashing it as well.

When you are paying thousands of dollars for a cruise, you are buying a package - a hotel AND all your food and entertainment packaged together. Having to say to people to wait several hours for meals they have fully paid for in their package is inexcusable. Why should those of us who have paid a few thousand dollars for a package have to eat off the ship to be able to get food and service within a decent time? Sitting in a dining room for 3 hours to eat is taking away time I could be spending either in port or seeing a show - another piece of tha package I buy when I booked the cruise.

Don't say we are bashing the U.S. - it is the ship and the poor management that never anticipated or planned for this that should be criticized.

That said, I am going on this cruise on October and plan to make the best of it with what I know from others who were generous enough to post their experiences here.

And if the cruise has changed for better - I will be posting an honest review. And if I don't, do you dare accuse me of "bashing the U.S."
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Old August 29th, 2004, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

I think most readers on this board can draw their own conclusions if someone has a vendetta or not On the same token, what about those that still refuse to admit anything is wrong on the ship?

I would hope travelers have every right to discuss their disappointment on a cruise ship on a cruise related chat board. What I have noticed on numerous boards that claim "all reviews are welcome, positive and negative" is that the unhappy cruiser is being attacked more than any happy traveler would be. I find it disappointing that moderators try to discredit the words of a person that was actually on the ship when they were not. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it because I really counted on Dalwhitt's and others reviews this past months, the final straw before I decided to postpone my POA sailing.

One thing is certain, there are a lot of unhappy POA cruisers out there. Only 50% of American households have internet access and therefore I'd be willing to wager at least half of those interviewed for the newspaper articles do not have easy internet access.

As mentioned above, from what I understand NCL is a foreign owned country. I believe the American crew was hired because they had no other choice due to the 100+ year old rule.

I do not have an axe to grind with NCL. I want to sail the POA when things get better. But to me it has been disappointing to watch NCL mislead it's travelers and continue to sail each week with things going as poorly as they are. And a 20% discount on a future cruise will do nothing for those that may have saved to years to take a "once in a lifetime" trip to Hawaii.

I just want things to get better, and hopefully with more public pressure NCL will get the job taken care of ASAP.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

I am 100 percent for America ... and 100 percent against NCL. I'm not going to apologize for that. Bashing NCL is not bashing America. Sounds like McCarthyism to me. In case some on this board haven't read the U.S. Constitution & the Bill of Rights, I have freedom of speech. I've said nothing on these boards that I need to apologize for. I said what I meant and I meant what I said.

As far as me not enjoying my vacation ... correct me if I'm wrong but the first line of my review says: "This may surprise many of you who have read my postings over the last few months but … I enjoyed this vacation..." It was an honest review, one that told the good and bad about this over-priced, second-rate cruise. The problem here is that the apologists here don't want to hear the ugly.

I say my review and posting are doing a service to those who intend to sail on this ship. If they cancel because they can't get past the ship's shortcomings, then that's good, isn't it? And if they can get past them and go on this ship with the proper expectations, then that's good too, right?

The worst thing that can happen is that someone goes on this ship expecting Adventure of the Seas service and experience and gets ... POA service and not being prepared.

Now, I don't want anyone to take this as a personal attack but...

Paul deleted a post because he said I couldn't prove that fewer people got off the ship on my cruise than others and shouldn't have said that NCL was lying, even though I was on the ship.

Just so you know, I am the person he is talking about when he says "Others could be from a group cruise that NCL already aknowleged had problems. They may be pressing for some kind of refund or something, ..." So he comes here and assumes that I am attempting to get some type of refund, even though I've never said that. For the record, Paul, I have not contacted NCL in any way and do not intend to, through myself or an attorney. I would never expect NCL to give me money back. So perhaps you should delete your own post since it is not factual.

And I take those comments as a personal attack on me and my integrity. But as I've said before, I expect no more from you since you allow others to attack me, leave it up for more than 13 hours and only delete it when I respond.

God Bless America .... to heck with NCL!

P.S. I expect to be banned from this board because many people here don't want to hear the truth. These boards shouldn't be a mouthpiece for the cruise lines. The good and the bad needs to be posted here. When I am gone, you will know why.

Post Edited (08-29-04 13:17)
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Old August 29th, 2004, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

Don't go........the truth needs to be told to svae other vacationers from booking a sub par cruise@!@
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Old August 29th, 2004, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

Please forgive my typos....just got back from Hawaii, my nonstop flight redeye flight was cancelled and we had to travel 3 hrs out of our way through LAX to get home

Dalwhitt, please don't leave, your posts have been incredibly helpful. I don't doubt your integrity for one second and I'm sure most others will agree. The numerous newspaper articles speak for themselves. I only hope AlexMD somehow finds his way to this board, I think he was sailing this week. Am curious to hear a new review.

BTW, I did drive out to Zelo's. Ate there 2X's! Just missed each other by a few weeks

Saw Pierce Bronson at the Kauai airport. What a hunk!!!!!!! Pictures don't do the man justice Now that was a great way to start a vacation.....
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Old August 29th, 2004, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

Dalwhitt .....DON'T LEAVE
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Old August 29th, 2004, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

We have banned very few people from this website and they have all been because of profanity and attacks that they would not stop after many warnings. We have never banned anyone for expressing themselves truthfully and if they do that is when I will no longer work here and I plan on being here for a very, very long time. All I ask that people do not attack each other and be honest and objective in reviews. Most have, (dewitt, I think you have been honest, and a few have not. Lets just keep it civil. Thanks you for your help.
Jim

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Old August 29th, 2004, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

This is an off-the-wall question and maybe even not relevent. Does the river boats that sail in America, are American built with American crews suffer the same problems as NCL?
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Old August 29th, 2004, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm


Thanks, Jim., and everybody else for the encouragement. I've never tried to hurt anyone on these boards. I just think my opinion is just as valuable as everyone else. I won't attack if you won't.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

I don't know about that, in fact probably not, but they have gone thru many owners as well as those sailing Hawaii only and the prices are extremely pricey. Again, probably due to the cost of help. NMNita
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Old August 29th, 2004, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

"do the riverboats suffer the same problems as NCL?"

No - not in my experience. I sailed on the new American Queen last December and it was very nice. However, they are smaller ships, it is not a budget cruise and they are able to draw capable employees from the deep South where the population is greater and the cost of living is generally lower, which I am guessing is easier than finding qualified young people in Hawaii. (surf's up, dude!). That is one reason why I believe NCL is looking for people in new areas instead of concentrating on Hawaii as they did before.

As to us bashing the bashers and not the NCL lovers. You are doing a good enough of job bashing the NCL lovers for us, we don't need to do that.

I have explained in other messages why I think NCL deserves Kudos for POA, and why it is the same as bashing the USA. I will post in that message to bring to it to top so you can re-read it.

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Old August 29th, 2004, 06:36 PM
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Default Kudos to NCL for POA

Author: Paul Motter (ip68-3-42-229.ph.ph.cox.net)
Date: 07-02-04 14:40

NCL has been taking some criticism lately over the Pride of Aloha, but I want to add my own personal opinion about this situation because I really believe it.

I want to give credit, a lot of credit, to NCL for even undertaking the Pride of Aloha project in the first place. NCL has done all of us citizens of the USA a huge favor.

The ships that were being built by the American Classic Voyages project when they filed bankruptcy had been funded by a huge loan guaranteed by the our federal government -- U.S. taxpayers! If these ships had not been finished then guess who would have been left holding the bag? You and me, that's right.

To take this project on, NCL had to agree to the same terms ACV had agreed to, to use all US citizens as crew and to register the vessel in the USA. There are REASONS why other cruise lines don't do this, and I think we are all seeing this now, based on the number of complaints we are seeing about the additional fees to have these US crewmembers on this ship AND the apparent service quality issues.

Is it NCL's fault that these US crewpeople are not cutting the mustard? That they cost NCL more money, are doing a lackluster job, and even quitting to leave the company high and dry? NO - IT IS NOT. There are plenty of people in the world who would love to be staffing this ship, and NCL would be happy to have them, but NCL is playing by the rules dictated to them under the conditions of our government. They are making the effort because they believe in the ability of US citizens to do the job.

I don't see anyone mentioning how sad it is that currently some of our own young people are letting NCL down. That they are not willing to work an honest day like so many other nationalities will. I don't see anyone giving NCL credit for at least trying their best to give the U.S. a CHANCE to show the world that it is possible to run a US registered and crewed cruise line efficiently and economically.

How do you feel when you think about the management of Royal Caribbean or any other large cruise line looking at this situation and saying, "See what you get when you try to crew a ship with US citizens?" Do you like the idea of foreign flagged vessel operators mocking this effort of NCL and the United States government?

Well, if you do not like it, then why would YOU criticize NCL? There isn't any difference. You are criticizing our own country for not being able to run a ship efficiently. Personally, I prefer to applaud NCL for stepping out on a limb and making the effort. They are taking some hard lumps right now, but I personally hope AND BELIEVE they will be very successful with this effort soon.

Ideally, the US could spawn an entirely domestic cruise fleet and we could see cruises running between US destinations on a regular basis. It would boost our economy and keep our tax dollars, and the money we spend on cruises, at home in the good ole USA.

So come on -- the U.S. travel industry has taken enough lumps because of foreign influence the last few years. NCL is stepping up at a time when the U.S. (especially the travel industry) needs support the most. How about a little Independence Day "PRIDE" in the Pride of Aloha and what it represents in to the world of cruising?

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Old August 29th, 2004, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm


Paul, there is one major flaw in what you are saying.

From what I've read on the boards and from what I saw on the ship, the American crew is doing quite well under trying circumstances. The ones I saw were busting their butts, banging their heads against a wall that wasn't going to budge. Only negatives I have seen about the crew came from the first few weeks of this venture. Since then, almost every single review I saw basically had no complaints with the crew. So it seems that the crew has gotten itself together father than the people who are running this company.

I know that some people were fired, and those were probably the party animals we heard so much about early on. But while I was on the ship, I saw absolutely no crew members acting out, even though I saw plenty by the pool tanning (wow!) and some even came to our shows and enjoyed themselves. And one of the officers sang at kareoke one night, to rousing applause.

So I don't think this crew is embarrassing the American flag and mom's apple pie.

Here is a passage from my review:

"This cruise also showed me that the American spirit is alive, well, and living in our young people. This crew is NOT made up of the lazy Americans that I heard about so frequently on these boards, just a group of people who have been given an impossible task. You could see the fatigue in the eyes of the staff, but they continue to give it their all against the odds created by a company that is abusing them. There HAS to be labor law violations on this ship, and they will come to light in time."

On the other hand, NCL is embarrassing us. Whatever happened to good ol' American ingenuity? There has to be a faster way to figure out the problems on this ship. But since most of the stockholders in this company probably aren't Americans anyway, I guess I shouldn't expect American ingenuity from foreigners.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2004, 08:28 PM
cruise182
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm






“Is it NCL's fault that these US crewpeople are not cutting the mustard?”

No its not but does that mean I would want to sail POA



That they cost NCL more money, are doing a lackluster job, and even quitting to leave the company high and dry? NO - IT IS NOT. There are plenty of people in the world who would love to be staffing this ship, and NCL would be happy to have them, but NCL is playing by the rules dictated to them under the conditions of our government. They are making the effort because they believe in the ability of US citizens to do the job.

the fact of the matter is here in the USA we do not have the living conditions that exist in other countries. We live in a culture where we do not need to work like interrnational crews do for little pay. When they return home with their wages they can live better then most in their country.



I don't see anyone mentioning how sad it is that currently some of our own young people are letting NCL down. That they are not willing to work an honest day like so many other nationalities will. I don't see anyone giving NCL credit for at least trying their best to give the U.S. a CHANCE to show the world that it is possible to run a US registered and crewed cruise line efficiently and economically.

See above!!



How do you feel when you think about the management of Royal Caribbean or any other large cruise line looking at this situation and saying, "See what you get when you try to crew a ship with US citizens?" Do you like the idea of foreign flagged vessel operators mocking this effort of NCL and the United States government?

Again we live in a different culture!!



Well, if you do not like it, then why would YOU criticize NCL? There isn't any difference. You are criticizing our own country for not being able to run a ship efficiently.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2004, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

Paul' I am sorry but I too have to disagree with your view of this situation. I don't think that NCL is doing America or the American taxpayer any favor by taking on this venture ( with some concessions from government on bending some of the rules, from what I understand) and then making a hash of it.

As dalwhitt pointed out ,and as I also feel having read several reviews of the ship and several comments and reports from posters who claim to be previous crew members on POA, the crew seems to be working very hard. It is my understanding that the crew that is still on the ship, is in fact working longer hours than originally planned and under extremely difficult conditions ( passengers angry and upset due to long waits and understaffing).

In addition it seems that NCL's confusing implimentation of the 'service charge' has left both passengers and crew wondering what is going on. At least some members of the crew seemed to be expecting tips, but NCL's statements about the service fee, and the poor service customers are receiving (due to short staffing) has no doubt reduced any chance the crew had to make any money on tips.

In addition ,after reading several posts, e-mails, and newspaper articles I have the strong impression that many members of the crew were mislead about the work conditions , hours etc. that they would be in for on this ship. Whether this is due to mis-information from NCL or mis-understanding by the crew members I don't know but it seems clear that NCL did not do a great job of explaining things to these people before they signed on.

Frankly I think that by taking on this task and then doing such a very poor job of it NCL has done more to sink the future of the American flagged crew industry than anyone else. As you pointed out on another thread I think , you worked on cruise ships with several other Americans. You understood and did not complain about the schedules and conditions involved in your job. Why do you think so many of this American crew are not working out? I don't think it can be laid at the feet of the 'lazy American worker' so who does that leave? Maybe NCL management?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2004, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 328
Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm


Bruce, unfortunately you didn't see my return post before it was deleted. Here is the clean version, certainly not to be deleted: I'm back because four people E-mailed me personally and asked me not to leave. They felt that my voice was important enough to keep going, and since I am honored by their sentiment, I decided to keep going. They didn't want to post it on this board for fear of being ripped apart by the apologists. They know I have a thick skin, and can take it and dish it out as well.

I hope that answer is satisfactory.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2004, 08:45 PM
cruise182
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Default Re: Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

I for one would like tothank you for staying!!
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old August 30th, 2004, 12:22 AM
kvr
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Default Re: NCL Bashing: stay calm

Paul, bashers or not, cannot believe you would delete posts that recommend people to cancel their cruises. I have recommend for people to consider cancelling because I just came off a horriable cruise. Dont see your point on why that is so wrong.

Your first post on this thread said something to the effect that some of the posters have other motives, Im thinking you and this site could also have something going on that is not stated.

Please let me come out and ask. Is cruisemates getting pressure from the cruise lines to stop the negative posts?
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