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  #31 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 10:29 AM
newmexicoNita
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

ginamarie, I am sure no one really thinks there will be lawyers standing at the port passing out cards, but you can be assured there will be many who will contact the passengers. You may work for a reputable personal injury lawyer and there are some, but let's face it; many will do anything for a dime. We all know about the huge settlements, the baseless law suits and the clients that really are not hurt that badly but still win their cases. I know, I have been a part of a tragic law suit, so let's not say it doesn't happen and yes, the family who did the sueing would not have if a lawyer had not contacted them. Not only were friendships ruined, a marriage went on the rocks, a lot of money was involved and nothing really good came out of it. Needless to say, I have very strong feelings about law suits and we can be sure there will be some in this case. NMNita
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

Other websites are saying they opened the bars and gave free alcohol to people who wanted it as compensation. Nothing like being drunk with big waves crashing into the ship.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Mond

Mike.......the Queen Mary (original) came within one degree of sinking when she was hit by a huge wave, 100 feet tall as I recall.

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Mond

GinaMarie...

I agree with you. I read this news item and the thought of suing the cruise line for a rogue wave never even came within a mile of occuring to me. I don't like using analogies, but in this case that would be like suing Greyhound bus lines for getting a bus caught in an avalanche.

Companies have schedules even though storms happen. The storm was not extraordinary, this was a rogue wave. People will sue if they don't get to go, people will sue if they do go and have a little discomfort. You can't win.

As for opening the bars. No way would I want a drink, just a heavy dose of Bonine, thank you.

But not everyone is a seasoned cruiser, and some people have a fear of water -- just like a fear of flying. It isn't really funny to make fun of them if that is how they are born.

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Old April 18th, 2005, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

This is a good reminder that nature -- not a cruise line -- is in charge anytime we venture into one of the world's oceans, especially the Atlantic. One of Silverseas Cruises' tiny ships was caught in a huge North Atlantic storm. Waves destroyed a number of balcony cabins and water poured down the stairs; it was several feet deep in the dining room. The Queen Mary (original) came within one degree of sinking from a rogue wave.

So, from time to time nature intrudes on our holiday. But not all that often.

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Old April 18th, 2005, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until

Good luck in trying to sue over an act of nature! I understand that NCL gave 1/2 the cruise fare back to passengers on the trip, plus a voucher for 1/2 off a future cruise. For most of us seasoned cruisers, that would be a "free" cruise. But I am sure some of those passengers will never want to get on a ship again.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

I feel very bad for the people on the Dawn and I do not discount the fear that they felt. I know that it would have scared the hell out of me to awaken to water in my cabin or worse yet to be in one of the forward facing cabins and have the wave come crashing through.

Many people will probably never cruise again and I cannot blame them. However I cannot agree to anyone taking up a suit against NCL. This was nature doing what nature does and showing that no matter what technology we have we are still at its mercy. I am still amazed that people don't realize they are on a ship and this is why there is a muster drill, life jackets in the cabins and life boats situated on each side of the vessel. It is a testament to the design of ships that they are able to take a wave such as this, and worse, and come away with relatively minor damage to passengers and the vessel.

Take care,
Mike

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

Still alot safer then a plane imagine if this had happened in a plane they wouldnt of fared so lucky. I think its a testament to modern ships and modern tactics/crew. I was amazed that such a small portion of the ship was damaged and only a few were hurt with 0 deaths.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Mond

Good point, Mike. I would be scared also, and I am a good swimmer. But I also have the knowledge of how ships are built in this modern age, and how remote the possibility of a modern cruise ship sinking even under the worst of conditions truly is.

Let us please NOT lose sight of that fact that no passenger has died on a cruise ship as a result of a rogue wave, hurricane, tidal wave, collission or anything else of that nature since the age of modern cruising (for our US market) started 30 years ago.

Cruising is still an extremely safe vacation - no matter what. How many people die on our highways every year? Do people sue the government who built the highway or the car manufacturer when they have a traffic accident caused by a snowstorm?

Well, I suppose some of them do.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

At least they were on a big ship. Can you imagine how many people would be lost, if they were on the beach when a wave like that struck the beach. There's really nothing anyone can do about an "Act of God". Someone said the cruiseship should have been able to detect the wave and avoid it. How exactly does a cruiseship with a top speed of around 22 knots avoid a wave that can travel several hundred miles an hour. And how does a cruiseship even detect it in time to avert it, even if radar could determine the wave's height, which it can't. And how does a cruiseship avoid a low pressure area that extends from the shore to several hundred miles out to sea. This was just an act of God and no one's at fault.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

I have to admit. I am really impressed. I expected MUCH more NCL bashing on the boards and I am a member/have checked out 3 of the very popular boards.

I tend to agree with all that have posted about the freakish act of nature and the excellent response this time by NCL (haven't done this always). Will be interested in seeing posts by actual returning pax in the next few days.

VERY sorry to say this is NOT the same on "another" very active board I frequent.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 04:50 PM
newmexicoNita
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

marvholly, I am inclined to agree with you, I expected more bashing as well and I am anxious to hear what those returning have to say. Certainly glad I wasn't on the Dawn; I can imagine how frieghtening it would have been. NMnita
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Helen T
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

I returned from a cruise on the Dawn on 10th April and can't believe how lucky I am that I didn't cruise a week later. But look at the facts - Dawn is frequently late back into NY because of the weather. On my sailing we were back 2 hours late, and in the same stretch of sea had encounterd force 9 gales and 7-8 metre waves. The day I started my cruise Dawn had been late in and according to the the crew had again been in very bad weather at times. During this winter I have seen several postings on NCL site advising passengers not to arrive at NY pier until 2 (or more) hours after the official embarkation time because the ship had been slowed down by rough weather. Furthermore, NCL have a bad weather policy posted on their web site about delayed winter sailings out of NY.

Dawn's captain has sailed all over the world and says that his favourite place is Antarctica, despite the often treachorous weather - I say there is no better experienced person to take charge of this ship in notoriously difficult water and congratulate him and his crew for obviously taking such great care of their passengers and crew in difficult circumstances.

Facts are facts and this is frequently a tricky sailing - no real reason I can see here for anyone to sue NCL - nothing in life is without a slight risk, so long as the risk has been assessed and strategies put in place for dealing with any problems.

Well done NCL and the crew of the DAWN.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

My friend and I are cruising for the first time in on April 24th. Even after the 'dunking' of the dawn, we are still ready to cruise. Our husbands are more worried than us.

Can't wait to be cruising!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

Ceramicslover - I hope you enjoy cruising as much as I do.

Bon Voyage
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

I think you have a better chance of dying in a plane crash on the way to the cruise or in a horrific hotel fire if you overnight before the cruise than dying from a rogue wave on the cruise.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

To:Paul
Captain of the CruiseMates Ship.

In 1966, while crossing from Lisbon to New York, the S.S. Michelangelo (Italian Lines) was struck by an 80 foot wave that tore 30 feet of bukwark off.
The water smashes through the bridge and into the first class compartments, killing two passengers and a crew member.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

Good evening everyone,

I saw the Dawn pull into port this morning as I entered my job (roughly around 9am), and I saw her leave tonight as I left the office at 5pm. I work in Hoboken NJ and live in NYC. My job faces the port of NY.

Anyway, I got the chance to inspect the starboard side this evening as she was passing by, and she looked to be in real good shape from that angle. Of course, I don't know if the wave hit starboard or port, so it could look mighty different on the port side. I will say that while I saw some people way up on one of the top decks, she did not look like she had a full house - which of course she wouldn't have.

I felt real bad as she passed - she's a really pretty ship and NCL really took a beating they didn't deserve from the press.

To all who sailed on her today, and for those who will sail on her next Sunday - have a blast! She's a great lady and one of the prettiest ships around.

Have a great night,

Cathy in NYC

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  #49 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

I was on the Dawn this past week. I'm happy to be home but also sad because we really did have a fantastic time-all 6 of us. My husband and I and 2 daughters and 2 friends of my daughters enjoyed the cruise and made the best of the stormy days. But to clarify some issues-the couple that was interviewed on CNN reported many inaccuracies and shame on CNN for not verifying their information. The hot tubs that were destroyed were on the 7th deck (crew access only) not the 12th deck. These hot tubs are not floating around the Atlantic somewhere but actually are still on the ship and you can see for yourself by viewing the bridge cam. The deck was cleaned up in Charleston so you won't see the railings and the control boxes strewn about. Also the captain kept us informed of changes in weather. The wave hit about 6:30 a.m. as I was getting ready for the gym. As I opened my door I heard an announcement over the PA "Code Alpha 900" which I later found out to be a medical emergency. I had 2 cabins on the 10th fl portside balcony forward. I could see activity between passengers and crew. There was water flowing out from the cabins but thankfully I was down far enough so that we were not affected. This couple also stated that the captain shut the engines. He in fact reduced speed in hopes of alleviating the heavy rocking but he had to increase speed for the stabilizers to kick in. They apparently do not work at low speed. This was explained to us by the captain. Most of the waves were at 20-40' with swells even greater. This 70' wave was random. I do not blame the captain or NCL for this. That's just ridiculous. In summation we were happy to have cruised on the Dawn and of course we will take advantage of that 50% off deal and book another cruise ASAP. I bet 99% of the passengers will no matter what they say now about NCL. I see no justification for lawsuits here. Oh wait, this is America, how naive of me.
You all have a great time on your next cruise.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Mond

Fisch,
Well said. I thought today as the media was all over this, out of the 2000 plus passengers that remained on the ship, the major networks could only find a handful (not even that many) passengers that had negative things to say about this unfortunate mishap at sea. How lucky they are that they are able to tell their tales. I am booked on the Dawn on May 22nd and I can't wait!!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Mond

Quote:
To:Paul
Captain of the CruiseMates Ship.

In 1966, while crossing from Lisbon to New York, the S.S. Michelangelo (Italian Lines) was struck by an 80 foot wave that tore 30 feet of bukwark off.
The water smashes through the bridge and into the first class compartments, killing two passengers and a crew member.
Thank you FloridaLady. I didn't know that. Of course that was over 30 years ago, but interesting anyway. Ships have had accidents and even sunk - but not before all the passengers could be safely evacuated. They tend to take quite awhile to go down these days with their TRUE water-tight compartments (unlike the Titanic where the separations didn't go all the way to the top of the ship).

And as I said on another board...

A lot of people said it couldn't be done, but NCL proved them wrong by going for over a year with hardly ever missing a deadline (they have a standing "on-time" guarantee for passengers that the ship will always arrive and depart NYC on time to make the full cruise).

The fact that NCL has the guts to make such an edgy decision as to offer year-round cruises out of NYC makes them one of my favorite companies in the "cajones" department - but maybe not the best choice for a first-time cruiser.

NCL also went out on a limb by saying "We can staff a ship with a fully American crew, and offer 'free-style' cruising in Hawaii." And not everyone has been pleased, but those of us who respect individualism and "having the nerve" to take a chance enjoy watching NCL do what they do.

I loved the contrast between the two people interviewed on the NBC Today show (msnbc.com). One younger man said "first-cruise, last-cruise. Never again!" While the other (a middle-aged) lady when asked if she would ever cruise again said " Pshsh, it's already booked." :-)

It appears that it is the ladies who has a greater sense of advernture than the men in may cases here. You have to love it, the old "Cruising, sounds boring" mentality that many cruise virgins have, and then something like this happens and they are the first to chicken out.

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  #52 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

Fisch: You need to go on CNN and FOX and say what you just said here!

I'm sure there will be several "post cruise traumatic stress disorder" lawsuits very soon. Thanks for giving us the real story.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2005, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Mond

Ginamarie

I'm an attorney, too, tho not an admiralty attorney. I made a point similar to yours earlier on this board. Everyday I answer calls from people who want to bring a tort claim or recover money for something they think they are owed, and they always act astonished that I'm not interested in their case...like they're offering me a million bucks just for the taking and I'm refusing. I think its all this nonsense thats been on TV about tort reform. The general public has no idea how difficult and expensive it is to try one case and get any significant recovery and then not be reversed on appeal (misleading stories in the press notwithstanding.)
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Old April 19th, 2005, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until

I posted this message in the***Link deleted***I know it's a bit out there for some, but I think it's worth discussing.

Hello Everyone,


I know this is my first post, so it looks like I am here to start a flame war, but I AM NOT. I am looking forward to sailing the Dawn in 5/1/05, I have been lurking these boards since I booked the cruise in December. My heart goes out to the poor people who where on this rough ride, as well as the crew, because I think they did a wonderful job.

I do though have a “theory” on why the ship went through such a rough ride. Could it be that that Niklas Peterstam the captain of the Norwegian Dawn felt pressure from the big wigs at NCL to get the boat back in time to film this commercial that was supposed to go on Sunday (4/17)?

Again just an idea, I am NOT trying to start trouble, I have been on NCL before (Norway 1996 I am so happy I got to sail on a great classic ship!!) and had a great time. I am looking forward to my stay on the Dawn. It is just a “theory” of mine….. It may have been posted already, so sorry for the double post if that’s the case.

- Mike M
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old April 19th, 2005, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY un

Mikey M...

You are welcome here. I am sure the captain always feels pressure to do his job, which includes getting the ship back to NYC on time every Sunday. NCL has an "ontime" guarantee for passengers with this ship because they acknowlege it is a long and difficult stretch from FL to NYC to make in a short time.

As I posted above, I did it the route just once in December of 1993 on Holland America's Statendam, and we hit very rough seas.

Rough seas are a part of sailing in the open oceans. Granted, most of the time in the Caribbean the waters are calm, but cruise ships now sail around the world and I can tell you about storms I have been in in the North Sea and the Pacific that were very tough.

But it takes a VERY bad storm to make a captain change his course, and the storm they were in was not that rough. It was rough, but certainly not off the scale of acceptability. The thing that people who keep bringing this up seem to missing is that this was a ROGUE WAVE, and it actually hit after the storm appeared to be subsiding. Its creation may have had little to do with the storm they were in and originated due to other conditions - possibly.

In any case, the single wave was an anomaly, and an unpredictable one. Just like a tornado may appear suddenly and without warning, such waves can occur.

There are some new systems in place with scientists just now learning how to track them, but they are not yet fool-proof, and they require constant scrutiny of radar generated tidal patterns 24-hours/day and have no distinct trigger attributes to tell scientists of a rogue wave's existence in time to warn all ships to get out of the way.

This was in no way the fault of the captain or the cruise line. And many reports are saying NCL went out of their to accomodate people who had no cabins - helping them disembark in NC, getting a bus to take them (to Savannah, I believe) to larger airports so they could get home.

It has gone too far when people want to blame everything, including the weather, on the vacation provider. Geeze, what if you booked a week at a land resort in Hawaii and it rained all week. Would one sue God if you could? Then God would be forced to cut back on rainstorms and we would all die of thirst.

You have to give people the benefit of the doubt in life, and not always look for a scapegoat in everything that happens. Life happens, it has twists & turns and unexpected surprises. It would be a pretty boring world if everything was always safe and languid, wouldn't it?

So, maybe cruising is not for some people. But for me, even though I get seasick (I always carry my pills), I love the motion of the sea and its unpredictability. Yes, I have been so seasick I just wanted to die, but I wouldn't want an ocean that never gets a little rowdy. I prefer the excitement.

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Old April 19th, 2005, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

In an article in today's New York Times, the National Weather Service says that typically, the highest waves you find are 20, 25 feet. Until four or five years ago, 70 ft waves were only in the realm of legend. But now satellites show about 10 of these rogue waves in all the world's oceans in three weeks.

Rarer than lightening hitting.

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Old April 19th, 2005, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

I think the cruise lines need to do some damage control in the media. I saw Fox news last night and each of the reports blamed the ship's captain and crew for not avoiding the storm.

In my opinion, NCL and CLIA should go on tv and set the record straight. Although, I understand that there may be litigation and it may not be wise to speak publicly. I would like to go on tv and say what Paul Motter and some other posters have said in support of the cruise line and the captain, that "it was a ROGUE WAVE and it actually hit after the storm appeared to be subsiding. Its creation may have had little to do with the storm they were in and originated due to other conditions - possibly."

It must have been frightening, but you know how the media likes to sensationalize it.
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Old April 19th, 2005, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

clay, I understand exactly what you're saying about the media sensationalizing everything. We were on a ship a couple of years ago when the Norwalk virus broke out. We had a great time on the cruise and knew nothing about the virus until we saw CNN on our tv promoing a segment called "dream vacation turned into a nightmare" with a shot of our ship! Then we had a letter slipped under our door about the virus. That was one of the best cruises we ever took, but no one from the media wanted to hear our opinion of the trip!

The media makes its money by making things sensational or tittilating, because in actuality most people don't want to tune in to a "news story" about someone's good vacation... they want to hear the most outrageous comments or facts. Most of the local broadcasts here in NY did refer to the wave as a "rough wave," but without explaining what it was. Of course, they followed that with interviews from people about how they were praying for their lives, and thought the ship was going to sink, etc. etc. My grandparents (who will be sailing with us on the Norwegian Spirit out of NY in November) were concerned after seeing this over and over on the news. I'm going to be explaining all this over and over for the next six months to ease their nerves!

Sme, I agree with you entirely. People today are what I call "lawsuit happy." People don't realize that 99 times out of a hundred people seek attorneys (not attorneys seeking people). Nita, I respect your situation, but these days, for attorneys to seek out injured people like ambulence chasers is considered unethical, and depending on what state the attorney is licensed, he could be subjected to a suspended or revoked license. I can't say that it never happens, because I'm sure there are attorneys who do it, but the majority of us do not. You can't let a couple of bad eggs form your opinion of a whole profession.
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Old April 19th, 2005, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Mond

Yes, I HATE it when the media puts such a negative spin on this, just to sensationalize the story. The press has such tremendous power and they need to use it responsibly. I think it sounds like the cruise line handled the situation very well and should be commended. We are headed out on the Star on Friday and we are anticipating a WONDERFUL time!

Thanks!

Adrian

Norweigan Star 4/22/05
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Old April 19th, 2005, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Ncl Dawn hit rough seas will not be in NY until Monday

Everyone wants to be a victim. There was one guy who said they were playing the theme song to Titanic! Imagine them doing that? That is just a rediculous statement. Most people who have been on the news put the blame squarely on NCL and are gearing up for legal action. They should be greatful that God had mercy on them and spared their lives. So they show their gratitude by slandering the cruise line and threatening legal action. Karma will get those people in the long run. What goes around, comes around!
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